Best platform (currently) for running RFM69HW?
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As noted in the v1.5 release announcement, v1.5 supports a new radio, RFM69HW.
Aside from higher cost than using an Arduino Mini Pro, is there any reason not to use either the Anarduino Miniwireless or the Moteino? I'm under the impression that the RFM69HW can be flush mounted by directly soldering it to pads on those boards which were designed for exactly that purpose (and, for extra cost, you can buy the boards with the RFM69HW already soldered on and presumably tested as well).
For those unfamiliar, here's the RFM69HW:
http://www.anarduino.com/details.jsp?pid=137
What other platforms, if any, are there? Here's the only two I know about, but there may be others:
http://www.anarduino.com/miniwireless/
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Bump? Very interested here too. I think all the fake NRF modules are scaring me off there.
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There's a lot of positive to say about using subGHz transceivers and the RFM69* in particular for low bandwidth sensor networks.
I wouldn't go there just because of the fake nRF24L01+ chips out there - I suspect most of the working systems using MySensors in fact are using clones with success. There is just a possibility of getting a bad batch, with a poorly functioning clone that doesn't work well enough. And we're working on how to test for that - either by testing the module (registers, power usage) or just by doing packet loss tests.
Some of the variants may actually work better than the genuine nRF24L01+ chips, for some purposes.
I'm still attracted to the nRF24L01+ style transceivers because I also use them for applications that do need the higher bandwidth and/or longer transmissions. There are stricter limitations on 433/868/915 MHz than on 2.4 GHz, in part because the lower bands have less total bandwidth to share, and in part because they carry further (ie: cause interference at longer range). But for a sensor net only, with occasional short bursts of a small amount of data, the RFM69 and other subGHz transceivers could be ideal.
I think the Moteino and Anarduino platforms look very good (I only have the latter and have not gotten around to testing them). The other option that comes to mind is the JeeNode, which originally used the RFM12b but has been upgraded to work with the RFM69CW.
Also, if you haven't checked out Jee Labs, do - his blog posts over the years have been an invaluable source of information on low power sensors nodes and related electronics. http://jeelabs.org - you can find links from there to the JeeNode store as well. In the US they are sold by Modern Devices.
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I looked into the JeeLabs forum recently, and it's practically deserted. Too bad, because in general I likel the direction jcw is headed. At the moment it appears that he himself isn't on that forum either, so questions aren't getting answered.
Broadly speaking, there seems to be a bit more life on the moteino and anarduino forums.
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I set up a moteino dallas temperature sensor and a moteino serial gateway. They worked right away with MySensors 1.5 and Domoticz running on a raspberry pi. I also set up an RFM69HW on a nano and used that as the gateway. Worked fine also. I don't have much experience with them yet, but the moteino sure was easy since the radio is built in. (you can get it without the radio, but not sure what the point of that would be).
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For me it's primarily a cost driven decision. I can get a Pro Mini and an NRF24L01+ for a total price, including shipping to Canada, for less than $3US in total. The cheapest RFM69 module is $3.90 + $6.55 shipping and then the cost of a Pro Mini. A Moteino equipped with a RFM69 is almost $20, not including shipping. At some point I may experiment with different RF modules, but so far the NRF clones/fakes have been working fine for me with coverage throughout the 3 levels in my house and in our yard.
Cheers
Al
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For both those sets of reasons, I really do admire francois's hybrid approach:
http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1723/which-is-better-rfm69-or-nrf24l01/3I suppose once you figure out precisely the right wire lengths, it would be fairly easy to quickly solder up a batch of units like francois did. You'd have a scrapy looking "moteino" at 1/3 the cost, but it would also be more compact than the NRF24 solution (and I'm guessing the range would be better too).
@Sparkman, what do your NRF24 mysensor nodes look like? Are they similar in form to what francois is showing in his comparison?
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@NeverDie said:
I looked into the JeeLabs forum recently, and it's practically deserted. Too bad, because in general I likel the direction jcw is headed. At the moment it appears that he himself isn't on that forum either, so questions aren't getting answered.
Broadly speaking, there seems to be a bit more life on the moteino and anarduino forums.
Yeah, it was once a more active community, but may have been bypassed by newer competitors - including MySensors.
However what I was recommending - in general, not specifically for this topic - was his blog, since 2008. He has covered many topics of interest to people designing wireless sensor networks and low power nodes. I used to check in at least weekly. It used to be notes on whatever he was investigating at the time; while it still has some of that flavor it nowadays is more tutorial in structure, like a book in progress [which it is], which is fine too.
End of sidetrack.
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@Sparkman said:
For me it's primarily a cost driven decision. I can get a Pro Mini and an NRF24L01+ for a total price, including shipping to Canada, for less than $3US in total. The cheapest RFM69 module is $3.90 + $6.55 shipping and then the cost of a Pro Mini. A Moteino equipped with a RFM69 is almost $20, not including shipping. At some point I may experiment with different RF modules, but so far the NRF clones/fakes have been working fine for me with coverage throughout the 3 levels in my house and in our yard.
Cheers
AlI didn't realize that shipping for the RFM69* is so expensive to Canada. He advertises them both at the anarduino website and on eBay, if one of those is cheaper for you.
Your point is well taken. Note that anarduino has been promising stripped down versions without the RTC and large external flash (but with the radio) which might close the gap somewhat. Updating the website with new products seems to be low priority tho...
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@NeverDie said:
@Sparkman, what do your NRF24 mysensor nodes look like? Are they similar in form to what francois is showing in his comparison?
I really don't have a standard form factor at this point in time as I've been experimenting with different boards and sensor types. I'm mainly using it to fill in "gaps" in my existing HA system which includes z-wave, X-10 RF, RFXCom with Oregon Scientific sensors, etc. Some of what I've been playing with includes:
- Sprinkler Controller (Arduino Mega with NRF24L01+ PA/LNA)
- Secret Knock Sensor Pirate Chest (Arduino Nano with NRF24L01+)
- Low voltage light control (Mini RBoard with NRF24L01+)
- Lightning Sensor (Arduino Nano with NRF24L01+)
- Weight Sensor (Arduino Pro Mini with NRF24L01+)
- Weather Radio (Arduino Uno with NRF24L01+)
- Geiger Counter (Custom Arduino with NRF24L01+ PA/LNA)
- Thermometer/Humidty (Sensebender with NRF24L01+)
The first 3 are in their cases and considered "complete" although I have a list of mods I want to do for all 3
The others are either on breadboard or "caseless" at this point, but I'm actively looking for cases for each to complete them. Going forward I will be using mainly Pro Mini's and will only use other Arduino's if required for specific reasons. Most of the ones that are on breadboard will use a Pro Mini when they go into a case. I'll likely end up using the Mys1.1 boards to make them into a tidy package.Cheers
Al
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@Zeph said:
I didn't realize that shipping for the RFM69* is so expensive to Canada. He advertises them both at the anarduino website and on eBay, if one of those is cheaper for you.
Your point is well taken. Note that anarduino has been promising stripped down versions without the RTC and large external flash (but with the radio) which might close the gap somewhat. Updating the website with new products seems to be low priority tho...
Thanks for the info. A single module from the Anarduino site is $10.60 for shipping, two modules is $14.65, etc. From eBay it's $6.55 for any number of the same modules, so that's a far better deal. In general, a lot sellers from the US used to ship First Class Mail to Canada, but most will now only send Priority Mail. I believe they have done that because First Class only has a pseudo-tracking system without proof of delivery and if packages got lost (which was a very rare occurrence with my experience), then there was no recourse.
Cheers
Al
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If you want more than one kind of module, you can ask the eBay seller to combine shipping.
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@Sparkman said:
@NeverDie said:
@Sparkman, what do your NRF24 mysensor nodes look like? Are they similar in form to what francois is showing in his comparison?
I really don't have a standard form factor at this point in time as I've been experimenting with different boards and sensor types. I'm mainly using it to fill in "gaps" in my existing HA system which includes z-wave, X-10 RF, RFXCom with Oregon Scientific sensors, etc. Some of what I've been playing with includes:
- Sprinkler Controller (Arduino Mega with NRF24L01+ PA/LNA)
- Secret Knock Sensor Pirate Chest (Arduino Nano with NRF24L01+)
- Low voltage light control (Mini RBoard with NRF24L01+)
- Lightning Sensor (Arduino Nano with NRF24L01+)
- Weight Sensor (Arduino Pro Mini with NRF24L01+)
- Weather Radio (Arduino Uno with NRF24L01+)
- Geiger Counter (Custom Arduino with NRF24L01+ PA/LNA)
- Thermometer/Humidty (Sensebender with NRF24L01+)
The first 3 are in their cases and considered "complete" although I have a list of mods I want to do for all 3
The others are either on breadboard or "caseless" at this point, but I'm actively looking for cases for each to complete them. Going forward I will be using mainly Pro Mini's and will only use other Arduino's if required for specific reasons. Most of the ones that are on breadboard will use a Pro Mini when they go into a case. I'll likely end up using the Mys1.1 boards to make them into a tidy package.Cheers
AlI wonder if Francois's approach needs a board too. It looks good as though it may be good to go as it already is.
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@Sparkman said:
For me it's primarily a cost driven decision. I can get a Pro Mini and an NRF24L01+ for a total price, including shipping to Canada, for less than $3US in total. The cheapest RFM69 module is $3.90 + $6.55 shipping and then the cost of a Pro Mini. A Moteino equipped with a RFM69 is almost $20, not including shipping. At some point I may experiment with different RF modules, but so far the NRF clones/fakes have been working fine for me with coverage throughout the 3 levels in my house and in our yard.
Cheers
AlAl,
I notice you can buy some of the RFM69x modules on Ali Express for little less, and with free shipping to Canada. Example: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FSK-module-RFM69W-13dBm-RF-transceiver-module-433-868-915MHZ-can-be-selected/2010765917.html
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Good news! It looks as though the RFM69CW format can be easily soldered to many different kinds of inexpensive, mass produced arduino prototyping boards, such as:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171193450673?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Caveat emptor, as I haven't tried it yet.
From the look of it, the RFM69CW has 14 "pins" and should line up rather than the 16 pins of the RFM69W. I wonder what was sacrificed by going down to 14 pins from 16?
Anyhow, this makes the hookup far more economic than if a custom board were required, at least for regular form factor arduinos.
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@NeverDie said:
I notice you can buy some of the RFM69x modules on Ali Express for little less, and with free shipping to Canada. Example: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FSK-module-RFM69W-13dBm-RF-transceiver-module-433-868-915MHZ-can-be-selected/2010765917.html
Great, thanks for the link. Will order some to play around with.
Cheers
Al
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Also, I'm noticing that an inexpensive adapter board like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171242679113
could be used to solder the pins of the RFM69x, and it would also fit over every pin on an Arduino Pro Mini, so you could possibly do some optimizing as to how the RFM69 pins map to the pro mini pins, if you know what I mean.
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@NeverDie are you sure RFM69 pin pitch matches these adapters ?
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@NeverDie : hi. look at here if you want http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1419/sensor-board-with-booster-and-supervisor. it is not updated yet. I will do soon. I am waiting for my second batch as I had some mistakes. I have to wait two weeks to receive; I can't wait!
you will be able to solder what you need. dc booster can provide constant voltage even if battery is low. it will be possible to solder just some parts, it depends what you will need. I have made a version with nrf_smd+rfm69 footprints too.
I think I will like it. Maybe others...
It is opensource so you will be able too build it.
Note: on overview this is not the pro mini I use (I have not the good 3d model). I use these http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/feUvNFufiToo bad I didn't see the MYSXConnector before. Next time I will take care
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@scalz said:
@NeverDie : hi. look at here if you want http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1419/sensor-board-with-booster-and-supervisor. it is not updated yet. I will do soon. I am waiting for my second batch as I had some mistakes. I have to wait two weeks to receive; I can't wait!
you will be able to solder what you need. dc booster can provide constant voltage even if battery is low. it will be possible to solder just some parts, it depends what you will need. I have made a version with nrf_smd+rfm69 footprints too.
I think I will like it. Maybe others...
It is opensource so you will be able too build it.
Note: on overview this is not the pro mini I use (I have not the good 3d model). I use these http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/feUvNFufiToo bad I didn't see the MYSXConnector before. Next time I will take care
Looks interesting. I don't see the RFM69x on it though. Is that on the other side?
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@fets said:
@NeverDie are you sure RFM69 pin pitch matches these adapters ?
Good catch. I just now measured the pitch of the RFM69HW, and it's 2.0mm. So, you're right, those particular adapters wouldn't work.
I have seen 1.0mm pitch adapters which I presume would work(?) by using every other solder line. I haven't tried looking for 2.0mm pitch adapters yet, but I guess now I will.
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thx. RFM69 is on the same nrf plane. on overview you can see a port of the rfm69 footprint, under nrf. for rfm69, it is same pinout as the moteino. will post more soon.
I am note sure what do you mean by FETS? I don't see your question...
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ahaha now I understand your question! yes pitch is 2mm.
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FYI, There is an a RFM69 adapter board for a teensie: file:///C:/Users/LR/Downloads/Teensy3%20RFM69_OSH%20plus%20RFM69-RFM22%20diag%20softw.pdf
Now just need to find the equivalent for a pro mini....
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It would be a total kludge, but with the correct pins and two adapters per radio, it might work: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-27MM-2-0MM-2-54MM-8-pin-adapter-plate/32386544730.html Actually, maybe not even then.
I really hope someone has something better to suggest.
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Or possibly use something like this, but attach 4 wires directly to the radio, one at each corner of the radio.
You'd only solder to every other solder pad.
I guess it might work.
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@NeverDie Here's the link to the OSH Park Teensy adapter board: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/RIumMBtN
These guys have an an adapter board as well, but a bit pricey: http://modtronicsaustralia.com/shop/rfm69hw-breakout-board-bare-pcb-rf-wireless-module/
Cheers
Al
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@Sparkman said:
@NeverDie Here's the link to the OSH Park Teensy adapter board: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/RIumMBtN
These guys have an an adapter board as well, but a bit pricey: http://modtronicsaustralia.com/shop/rfm69hw-breakout-board-bare-pcb-rf-wireless-module/
Cheers
AlThanks, Al!
I suppose if I were to need an SMA connector, that modtronics board would be the only way (at the moment) of getting it.
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@NeverDie said:
It would be a total kludge, but with the right pins and two adapters per radio, it might work: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-27MM-2-0MM-2-54MM-8-pin-adapter-plate/32386544730.html Actually, maybe not even then.
I really hope someone has something better to suggest.
Amazingly, the idea actually does work. Somebody with the same desperate need already did it:
https://www.gorilladistribution.com.au/product/prototyping-adapter-kit-for-hoperf-modules/
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This guy demonstrates how it can be done using protoboard: http://jdesbonnet.blogspot.com/2014/12/experiments-with-rfm69-433mhz-digital.html
but it was nasty looking, so he later spun his own PCB.
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Here's another option: https://github.com/uChip/RFM69W_BOB
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And this one which is interesting as it adapts the RFM to an NRF pinout: https://hallard.me/rfm12b-breakout/ which could be very useful to use boards like the Sensebender with and RFM69.
Cheers
Al
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@scalz said:
@NeverDie : hi. look at here if you want http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1419/sensor-board-with-booster-and-supervisor. it is not updated yet. I will do soon. I am waiting for my second batch as I had some mistakes. I have to wait two weeks to receive; I can't wait!
you will be able to solder what you need. dc booster can provide constant voltage even if battery is low. it will be possible to solder just some parts, it depends what you will need. I have made a version with nrf_smd+rfm69 footprints too.
I think I will like it. Maybe others...
It is opensource so you will be able too build it.Have you picked out a box yet for mounting it in, and do they mate well? As corny as it sounds, having the total solution can really tip the scales toward your solution. If I go the hybrid route (two different kinds of radios), I think I might find this quite attractive.
Note: on overview this is not the pro mini I use (I have not the good 3d model). I use these http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/feUvNFufi
Good to know, because that's exactly the source I was thinking of too!
Too bad I didn't see the MYSXConnector before. Next time I will take care
How does MYSX connector relate to this?
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@Sparkman said:
And this one which is interesting as it adapts the RFM to an NRF pinout: https://hallard.me/rfm12b-breakout/ which could be very useful to use boards like the Sensebender with and RFM69.
Cheers
AlThat's interesting: judging from the photos apparently only 9 pins on the RFM69HW are used in the hookup. Maybe that's why loosing 2 pins to make a RFM69CW is no big deal....
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Argh!!!! Apparently the RFM69CW has the same stupid 2.0mm pin spacing as the RFM69W.
As crude as it sounds, maybe all that's required in bending some pins: http://jeelabs.net/boards/6/topics/1012
So, the above pin bending would work for at least the RFM69CW.
Actually, for the RFM69W, I'd apparently only need be concerned about bending the 9 pins that actually get used....
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@NeverDie :
You are right. On my non-updated overview it is corny. But I have already rounded corners. And I have only one hole for screw (3mm). It is very difficult to add others because of size and component placement. But I will see later if it is a problem.
You can have a look here of what I have sent to fabhouse:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/scalz/MySensors-HW/development/PowerManagementMysensors/img/top.png
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/scalz/MySensors-HW/development/PowerManagementMysensors/img/bottom.pngFor the box, I didn't find enclosures which make me happy because of available size. It is so rectangular. Not beautiful. So I am planning to buy a 3d printer and make my own encosure based on my board. Then share my design...as I have others cool boards in project.
Yes I am using same pro mini source as yours
For MYSXConnector, I said this because I read this topic http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1796/unnamed-project-usb-hub-stick . So next time, I will take care about this if possible, as I am working for me and for community too.If it is just a breakout that you are searching for, links above are interesting. I talked with Charles from hallard.me . He is doing very great job. I am a big fan! and his ulpnode will be released soon I think. Can't wait to buy one to support his work!
In my side, I wanted something different (no sensors already mounted, modularity, signing and ota Mysensors feature ...). So I did mine. And Charles have gracefully proposed me to help to make my board compatible with his upcoming ultra low power lib. And it will be Mysensors compatible too. So coool!I think you will have a lot of choice...
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@scalz said:
@NeverDie :
You are right. On my non-updated overview it is corny. But I have already rounded corners. And I have only one hole for screw (3mm). It is very difficult to add others because of size and component placement. But I will see later if it is a problem.
You can have a look here of what I have sent to fabhouse:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/scalz/MySensors-HW/development/PowerManagementMysensors/img/top.png
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/scalz/MySensors-HW/development/PowerManagementMysensors/img/bottom.pngFor the box, I didn't find enclosures which make me happy because of available size. It is so rectangular. Not beautiful. So I am planning to buy a 3d printer and make my own encosure based on my board. Then share my design...as I have others cool boards in project.
Yes I am using same pro mini source as yours
For MYSXConnector, I said this because I read this topic http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1796/unnamed-project-usb-hub-stick . So next time, I will take care about this if possible, as I am working for me and for community too.If it is just a breakout that you are searching for, links above are interesting. I talked with Charles from hallard.me . He is doing very great job. I am a big fan! and his ulpnode will be released soon I think. Can't wait to buy one to support his work!
In my side, I wanted something different (no sensors already mounted, modularity, signing and ota Mysensors feature ...). So I did mine. And Charles have gracefully proposed me to help to make my board compatible with his upcoming ultra low power lib. And it will be Mysensors compatible too. So coool!I think you will have a lot of choice...
Not many people are going to custom print their box enclosure. You might, because you're invested in it. If you want others to use it too, consider instead first finding a good, small, inexpensive box from China that's easy to source from different suppliers to house it all in, and then work backward from that. So, for instance, there should be screw holes in your board over whatever standoffs there are in the box. Then, each end user doesn't have to scratch their head and waste time doing an independent search for what box to use to house your board. That part is known as the outset, and you can have links to Ebay and/or AliExpress on where to get it.
FWIW, from an end user perspective, that's what most people will want: an easy and inexpensive and total solution. Not to be left dangling after being painted into a corner.
Either that, or plan on selling your custom box along with your custom board, so at least the shipping can be combined. I imagine it will be tough competing with China though...
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@Neverdie: I agree with you of course. When I started to design my board, I looked to enclosure but didn't find my dream.. It is often too big, too thick or not enough, too small... often not very beautiful, and if you want to keep pcb low price you need to stay under 5cmx5cm (15$ for 10 pcb).
So it was not easy deal. And enclosure are sometimes a little expensive for what it is compared to 3d printings (of course it needs to invest in a 3d printer). I am thinking to make custom enclosure a little more designed than traditional rectangular, for motion, or sensors like some members are doing here...But you are totally right, if it is for community too, I must dig in an esay, inexpensive an toal way...I will see what I can do if it can help.
I don't do this for business. And not planning to sell anything. It is just share and fun. just want to release what people need to make one. But if there is demand, I will see how it could be done regarding Mysensors spirit.. But you are right I can't compete with China! even if I think it will be less expensive to build mine than asking fabhouse to build it (of course I don't look at my time making).
Oh, and I hope my english is understable
and I promise I will look at your requirements. In the mean time, if you see good enclosure regarding pcb size, you can tell me if you want (maybe this topic is not the right place for enclosure...)See you soon.
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@scalz said:
@Neverdie: I agree with you of course. When I started to design my board, I looked to enclosure but didn't find my dream.. It is often too big, too thick or not enough, too small... often not very beautiful, and if you want to keep pcb low price you need to stay under 5cmx5cm (15$ for 10 pcb).
So it was not easy deal. And enclosure are sometimes a little expensive for what it is compared to 3d printings (of course it needs to invest in a 3d printer). I am thinking to make custom enclosure a little more designed than traditional rectangular, for motion, or sensors like some members are doing here...But you are totally right, if it is for community too, I must dig in an esay, inexpensive an toal way...I will see what I can do if it can help.
I don't do this for business. And not planning to sell anything. It is just share and fun. just want to release what people need to make one. But if there is demand, I will see how it could be done regarding Mysensors spirit.. But you are right I can't compete with China! even if I think it will be less expensive to build mine than asking itead or others to build it (of course I don't look at my time making).
Oh, and I hope my english is understable
and I promise I will look at your requirements. In the mean time, if you see good enclosure regarding pcb size, you can PM me if you want (maybe this topic is not the right place for enclosure...)See you soon.
Agreed. Although important, this is getting off-topic and deserves it's own thread, so I've started one here: http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1816/best-project-boxes-to-use-for-mysensor-s-gateway-and-sensor-nodes
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@Zeph said:
If you want more than one kind of module, you can ask the eBay seller to combine shipping.
Thanks! I just heard back from Anarduino through the eBay site and he's confirmed that combined shipping for everything is $6.55, so that's a great deal (assuming I buy more than one item
)Cheers
Al
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BTW, I did just now order these to have on hand for hooking up 2.0mm pitch modules, like, for instance, the RFM69W to a conventional R3 Arduino shield. I offered $14.01, which the seller accepted, so that's $1.40/board, shipping included.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201259671475?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Just mentioning it here in case anyone else here might also benefit from them.
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Good catch NeverDie
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Has anyone tried the moteino or anarduino using mysensors? I am very tempted to press the buy button on one or the other. Pity they are so pricey but I am getting lazy to solder etc so I like having it all on one PCB
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Economy version. Good for prototyping. (from Asia)
Adapter 2.0mm to 2.54mm 8pin --- 2.82 usd / 10pcs (for 5 rmfxx) link
Pin header 2.0mm 40 pin --- 0.62 usd / 10 pcslink
Pin header 2.54mm 40 pin --- 0.53usd / 5pcs link
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Here's one I designed which you can get from OSHPark for $5 for 3. I've used it w/ 3.3V signals but it was based on this break out board which the designer reported worked fine using the resistor dividers for 5V signals. Works great for bread-board tests of the RFM69.
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@shabba said:
Has anyone tried the moteino or anarduino using mysensors? I am very tempted to press the buy button on one or the other. Pity they are so pricey but I am getting lazy to solder etc so I like having it all on one PCB
I have! I'm using a Moteino as a gateway with a non -H and that worked out of the box. I'm now building some sensors (including the outdoors in the PIR-light one) with -H versions. I bought these Moteinos without the RFM to avoid customs costs.
If you do buy them without RFM; do not forget to insulate the bottom side of the RFM with PV-tape. I didn't, and I couldn't get it to work properly. Insulated and away it went!In short: Moteino works! Small form-factor, wide voltage input with own LDO and low-power is easy.
Succes with your projects!
