Looking for reliable PIR human detection sensors
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@ehome said in Looking for reliable PIR human detection sensors:
@rejoe2 Have you already made some experience or used these microwave sensors as motion sensor?
I use several of them on a couple of RS485 MySensors nodes and also know some others in the FHEM forum using them with ESPEasy. So as far as I know the most common problems with the RCWL's are power-related (ESP8266 is a 3.3V-device).
As I have some problems with my RS485 setup the following is somehow preliminary (seems the 12V to 5V conversion is root cause; this also affects the RCWL's):
The ones I use myself are in my cellar and in the garage (two rooms in the later). In the cellar, detection is indirect (PIR on same wall as entrance door): Works very well, but also detects the opening of the door from corridor towards a second cellar room - there's a small hole in the wall between these two rooms near the PIR's position... So motion is also detected when just passing the cellar.
In the bigger garage room, it works perfectly - when there's enough power for the entire node - the converter on the pro mini seems not to supply enough power to get the RS485 chip working sufficiently in all situations. There it's placed on a side wall - no detection, when passing outside, but opening the front door is detected pretty reliable, in some cases, one has to do one step into the garage, detection angel is 80+ degrees .
The third RCWL I only recently installed, so there's not too much enough experience to talk about, the others are up and running for months now. But at least the radio fields of both RCWL's in the neighbouring rooms in the garage seem to not influence one another I had some doubts on that point as I first tried to use 3 of the RCWL's on the cellar node to monitor the two cellar rooms and the corridor; that didn't work - as I now think due to powering issues.I did some experiments wrt the resistor placement, but by now, all are just without one (but I can also state: one can see a difference)
So keep us updated once the parts you ordered are up and running!
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@rozpruwacz cool, thanks. Currently I am using the following AM312 module eBay
@ehome as I looked at am312 datasheet I didn't find any information about its output pin. So to be on the safe side, I would connect the two sensors trough additional n-mosfet transistor. So connect output of each pir to the mosfet gate. And then sources of both mosftes connect to ground and drains of both mosfets connect togheter to the arduino input pin. You will also need a pull-up resistor (external or arduino internal).
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I am using Panasonic EKMB1201111 - these are the best PIRs for battery nodes.
2uA standby current.Expensive though.
@alexsh1 what about detection performance ? is it better that am312 ?
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@ehome said in Looking for reliable PIR human detection sensors:
@rejoe2 Have you already made some experience or used these microwave sensors as motion sensor?
I use several of them on a couple of RS485 MySensors nodes and also know some others in the FHEM forum using them with ESPEasy. So as far as I know the most common problems with the RCWL's are power-related (ESP8266 is a 3.3V-device).
As I have some problems with my RS485 setup the following is somehow preliminary (seems the 12V to 5V conversion is root cause; this also affects the RCWL's):
The ones I use myself are in my cellar and in the garage (two rooms in the later). In the cellar, detection is indirect (PIR on same wall as entrance door): Works very well, but also detects the opening of the door from corridor towards a second cellar room - there's a small hole in the wall between these two rooms near the PIR's position... So motion is also detected when just passing the cellar.
In the bigger garage room, it works perfectly - when there's enough power for the entire node - the converter on the pro mini seems not to supply enough power to get the RS485 chip working sufficiently in all situations. There it's placed on a side wall - no detection, when passing outside, but opening the front door is detected pretty reliable, in some cases, one has to do one step into the garage, detection angel is 80+ degrees .
The third RCWL I only recently installed, so there's not too much enough experience to talk about, the others are up and running for months now. But at least the radio fields of both RCWL's in the neighbouring rooms in the garage seem to not influence one another I had some doubts on that point as I first tried to use 3 of the RCWL's on the cellar node to monitor the two cellar rooms and the corridor; that didn't work - as I now think due to powering issues.I did some experiments wrt the resistor placement, but by now, all are just without one (but I can also state: one can see a difference)
So keep us updated once the parts you ordered are up and running!
@rejoe2 yesterday I received my order of the RCWL' modules.
The detection range from theses modules are much better than AM312/HC-SR501.But sometimes these modules also detect motion through my thick (pumice stone) walls.
And of course this is not really practical and absolutely unwanted.I never thought that it will such a big challenge to get a reliable human motion detection to work...
I think I will know try an "aeotec multisensor 6 - Zwave device".Maybe these devices will work more reliable? Do someone have experience with these devices?
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If you are going to try a z-wave multisensor, you should look into getting a Fibaro FGMS-001 (https://www.fibaro.com/en/products/motion-sensor/). I tried the Aeotec and the Fibaro and the settings of the Fibaro are way richer. There are 3 settings to tune the PIR detection so that might be interesting to you. Also I never had to change batteries in 2 years.
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If you are going to try a z-wave multisensor, you should look into getting a Fibaro FGMS-001 (https://www.fibaro.com/en/products/motion-sensor/). I tried the Aeotec and the Fibaro and the settings of the Fibaro are way richer. There are 3 settings to tune the PIR detection so that might be interesting to you. Also I never had to change batteries in 2 years.
@silex many thanks for your reply and share of experience.
Batteries are not a problem for me. All my sensor nodes will be powered directly via power supply.I had to make the decision to buy the Fibaro or Aeotec one. The Aeotec one was the winner because the Fibaro one is missing the humidity sensor. This is an interesting value for me.
But it's also interesting to hear that you said that the Fibaro has more settings to tweak the PIR capabilities.
Maybe I will have to test both of them and see with which multi-sensor I can get the better human detection results.It's really sad that I have to give up building my own sensor nodes because of the very bad PIR results :-(
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I understand. There is also a relatively new infrared array sensor, that has a much higher resolution than the default PIR sensors and will be able to detect temperature differences over 64 separate fields and thus human presence.
Here is a link to a typically slightly more expensive but easy-to-prototype breakout board from Sparkfun with the Grid-Eye: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14607
Might be worth a shot. I am planning to use this for detecting presence without the need for the occupants to be in motion regularly (office spaces, living rooms, etc).
Grid-eye information: https://www.mouser.de/new/panasonic/panasonic-grid-eye-infrared-array-sensors/
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I understand. There is also a relatively new infrared array sensor, that has a much higher resolution than the default PIR sensors and will be able to detect temperature differences over 64 separate fields and thus human presence.
Here is a link to a typically slightly more expensive but easy-to-prototype breakout board from Sparkfun with the Grid-Eye: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14607
Might be worth a shot. I am planning to use this for detecting presence without the need for the occupants to be in motion regularly (office spaces, living rooms, etc).
Grid-eye information: https://www.mouser.de/new/panasonic/panasonic-grid-eye-infrared-array-sensors/
@silex I know these IR-Array sensors. But at the moment they are very expensive.
And I think also the detection range and angle is not as good as from an PIR.I need a minimum range of 5-7m and tests I have seen on youtube just covered 2-3m.
But I also see the big advantage to have human detection without active motion. With these devices it is possible to create real presence detection sensors.
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@silex I know these IR-Array sensors. But at the moment they are very expensive.
And I think also the detection range and angle is not as good as from an PIR.I need a minimum range of 5-7m and tests I have seen on youtube just covered 2-3m.
But I also see the big advantage to have human detection without active motion. With these devices it is possible to create real presence detection sensors.
