💬 Water Meter Pulse Sensor

[zboblamont]

@mrc-core If I do a search for "B93 315.04 lisboa" I get MSV Janz company turn up, but I don't understand Portugese. It is probably a magnetic drive even at 1997 fabrication, but perhaps some searching will yield clues or contact the manufacturer?

[mrc-core]

@zboblamont I have already read that pdf there they say this:

"The design of the Magnetic Transmission reduces the number of components
Operating in the water, increasing the reliability of the meter."

They also say this in the pdf:

"Any of these models can be supplied ready to receive the
Pulse transmission (see tele-count catalog). Ex .: MSV 1520t"

In this last information i made a search for MSV 1520t were i found again another pdf that talks about my water meter.
Here's the link: http://resopre.pt/conteudo.php?fam=CONTADORES,CONT_DOMESTICOS&pag=AGUA_RESOPRE.PT&detail=693

You can see 5 water meters on that link all off them say's Magnetic Transmission "Transmissão magnética" but has you can see none off them look like mine. Has i can understand mine is the more basic off them all i do belive that i have the first generation off this water meters.

I have done one last test yesterday leaving a water tap open and passed the hall sensor all over the water meter from side to side and top to bottom and never got any impulse digital led light turning on.
The led did turned on when i put my finger in the top off the sensor or in cables near the pins of the sensor.

[zboblamont]

@mrc-core Well, I did suggest contacting the manufacturer with the information on your meter, they are better able to advise or may even sell a sensor head to retrofit. Usually these manufacturers are very helpful, and at least you speak the language.
I know that some manufacturers insist on factory building the sensor arrangement inside the meter (Zenner?) but you may be lucky.
The magnetic drive is more to avoid mechanical connection between the metering section and the water flow, so no axle or sealing ring to leak !
I have a plastic Elster, it has the same magnetic coupling as yours, but I was unable to sense any changing magnetic field when I checked it, but I had already ordered the specific read head for it so was not unduly concerned, and it should arrive in next few days. This sensor pulses when a small metal arc on the small dial passes beneath the sensor every 1 litre. It was around 30 euro from memory, so not a mad price.

[ladislav]

Hello,
i have got water meter with pulse output. So I have just arduino and RFM69W. Sleep mode false/true works well with standard bootloader. Optiboot with sleep mode false works also well. But I would like to run it on battery optiboot with true sleep mode which doens work correctly. Sensor doesnt receiceve last pulse count from gw.
Any idea how to fix it?

0 MCO:BGN:INIT NODE,CP=RRNNA--,VER=2.1.1
4 TSM:INIT
4 TSF:WUR:MS=0
8 TSM:INIT:TSP OK
10 TSM:INIT:STATID=3
12 TSF:SID:OK,ID=3
14 TSM:FPAR
145 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-255-255,s=255,c=3,t=7,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
743 TSF:MSG:READ,0-0-3,s=255,c=3,t=8,pt=1,l=1,sg=0:0
747 TSF:MSG:FPAR OK,ID=0,D=1
2152 TSM:FPAR:OK
2152 TSM:ID
2154 TSM:ID:OK
2156 TSM:UPL
2164 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=255,c=3,t=24,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:1
2179 TSF:MSG:READ,0-0-3,s=255,c=3,t=25,pt=1,l=1,sg=0:1
2185 TSF:MSG:PONG RECV,HP=1
2189 TSM:UPL:OK
2191 TSM:READY:ID=3,PAR=0,DIS=1
2201 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=255,c=3,t=15,pt=6,l=2,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:0100
2254 TSF:MSG:READ,0-0-3,s=255,c=3,t=15,pt=6,l=2,sg=0:0100
2269 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=255,c=0,t=17,pt=0,l=5,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:2.1.1
2283 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=255,c=3,t=6,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:0
2336 TSF:MSG:READ,0-0-3,s=255,c=3,t=6,pt=0,l=1,sg=0:M
2351 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=255,c=3,t=11,pt=0,l=11,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:Water Meter
2367 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=255,c=3,t=12,pt=0,l=3,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:1.1
2381 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=0,t=21,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2387 MCO:REG:REQ
2398 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=255,c=3,t=26,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:2
2451 TSF:MSG:READ,0-0-3,s=255,c=3,t=27,pt=1,l=1,sg=0:1
2457 MCO:PIM:NODE REG=1
2461 MCO:BGN:STP
2469 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2476 MCO:BGN:INIT OK,TSP=1

2486 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2500 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2514 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2527 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2541 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2555 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2570 TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:
2707 !TSF:MSG:SEND,3-3-0-0,s=3,c=2,t=24,pt=0,l=0,sg=0,ft=0,st=NACK:

[dpcr]

Has it ever received a pulse count?

[ladislav]

When its about 2 metres far from gateway its received. Afterthat can be moved 10 metres away and it works. But after reset has to be moved close to gateway again.
I run also power meter pulse sensor. This has got different issue. It falls asleep before receiving pulse count from gw.

[dpcr]

@ladislav Sounds like a radio problem. Are you using a capacitor on the radio power supply pins? A capacitor on all radios in your network. I have a an Ethernet gateway in our basement and a node in our attic that is two floors above it and it works fine using a NRF24 for all radios and the radio power is on the default setting and it communicates fine.

[smilvert]

I having problem to place the tcrt5000 on the correct place. Can anyone please show where to put it? Is it over the black (that spins every 0.5 l)?

I have this type of water meter

[bart59]

@smilvert I am afraid your water meter does not work. On many other watermeters the black spinning wheel is somewhat bigger and has a small mirror attached. The light from the IR LED is reflected by the mirror and the IR sensor picks up the reflection as a pulse every rotation (in your case 0.5 L). I suggest you buy another water meter that has a sensor build in and provides you with a direct signal. In my home I have separate water meters for each water consumer (such shower, hot water, kitchen, etc.).

I am using a Honeywell C7195A2001B which has a hall sensor that pulses at 7 Hz per liter/min, so you will get 420 pulses per liter. These meters are typically used in boiler or central heating systems that also can provide hot water for your shower. You need to modify the source code a bit to handle the high pulse frequency, but the nice thing is that the measurement is very accurate.

regards

Bart

[dpcr]

@smilvert You could try a magnometer. I successfully used one on my gas meter that didn't have a magnet in it. Look up "gas meter using a magnometer" in this forum. The code is much different than using the standard water meter sketch.

[rejoe2]

@smilvert @dpcr
I really doubt this type of water meter having a magnet to sense. Gas meters often are prepared to use a special reed swich to be mounted somewhere outside on the enclosure, and the magnet comes pretty close to the enclosure to be sensed.

I somewhere found a different solution approach using a modified TCRT5000 board with green LED and a specific lightsensor (see here for details, german).

The idea behind it is to use complementary (green) light to one of the red pointer wheels to improve contrast when the small pointer passes.

I recently did some first test wrt. to this, but different to the mentioned solution, I used the original LED/sensor places to connect these two parts (and also changed the resistors values). Unfortunately, I wasn't able to test it "at the right place" until now. As far as I can see, the TCRT5000 inside just also consist of two seperate parts inside a housing. So you may try to do it like that: just pull of the plastic housing, change the LED (see TCRT datasheet which one) with a green one, focus LED and sensor a little more than normal and see, if you get reasonable results whith the trimming resistor.

Glad for feedback, if this works...

[dpcr]

@rejoe2 A magnetometer doesn't need a magnet to work, my gas meter doesn't have a magnet and it works fine. Most all smartphones have magnetometers in them to sense direction. However your solution looks to work as well and probably with less code.

[rejoe2]

@dpcr Thanks for clarification.
Today there was a new post that may be of interest wrt. to the "green" LED sensing modification: https://forum.fhem.de/index.php?action=post;quote=702342;topic=71341.0;last_msg=702342
This one seems to be close to a "professional" solution also wrt. to the other parts used (but most likely not on a TCRT5000-Base)...

[RPunkt]

I have a question and need some advise,
is it possible to expand the sketch to two meters.
In my case I want to combine a this Water Meter with a Gas Meter.
Can both meters use an interrupt, each?

[mfalkvidd]

@rpunkt welcome to the MySensors community!

it depends on which microcontroller you use, and what type of interrupt.

Atmega328 can use pin 2 and 3 at the same time by merging the sketches. More/other pins can be used but that will require some code changes.

[flopp]

@smilvert
I also have same meter as the picture. Yesterday I installed my sensor
I took a TCRT5000 IR sensor, https://www.mysensors.org/store/water
A cap from a soda bottle, cut it so it fits above left red wheel(X0,0001) which means one lap i 1 liter
It works but it counts little bit wrong, I have change the

if (interval<500000L)

to

if (interval<2500000L)

but anyway it counts about 3 times to much. I will check it later today

[flopp]

@flopp
This didn't worked so well, I got a lot of errors everytime nRF was sending data, then I got one pulse.
Anyone know how to protect the digital input to NOT fall when nRF sends?
Wait, when I was writing this text :) I just remember that nRF is using Pin 2, is that correct?
I will try to use pin 3 instead, as interrupt pin

[flopp]

@flopp
tried pin3, didn't help

Can it be something wrong with LM393(pcb)?

[smilvert]

@flopp Nice. You don't use a green led? I tried that and it seems to work better but then I struggle with the mounting.

Need to try this again!

[flopp]

@smilvert said in 💬 Water Meter Pulse Sensor:

You don't use a green led? I tried that and it seems to work better but then I struggle with the mounting.

I am using IR to detect movements. Green LED is flashing eveytime the IR detects movement and Red LED is power for PCB.
I am using Digital Output from PCB to pin 2 or 3 on my UNO. I have tried both with INPUT_PULLUP and without, also tried 20K between Digital Output and GND. nothing is helping

How do you use green LED with water meter?