Best 3d printers
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Of the Prusa i3, I read on the Dutch platform Tweakers.net that there are some safety aspects, so would the power supply not be fireproof?
I haven't read that, but I haven't looked into the Prusa deeply. I bought the Ender 3 because of its price to performance ratio.
I wondered if I should get the Ender 3 pro. The only thing it really added that I wanted is a better power supply. But since it doesn't really impact anything, and you can always upgrade later, I decided to go with the normal Ender.
How did you mean the touch screen? do you mean that you actually have to replace the controller with a Raspberry pi?
No, I mean that some 3D printers come with fancy touch screen interfaces. The way you normally use them is that you put a file on an SD card, put that SD card in the printer, and then use the on device interface to start the print.
But you can also connect a Raspberry Pi to your printer (it has a USB port), and then it can control the printer. Once you do that, you can start, stop and follow prints through a web interface. No more hassle with SD cards. It's something you will want.
I use a 10 euro Raspberry Pi Zero W for this.
I also think I'm going to buy an Ender-3,
The difference between the 3 and the 3-Pro turns out not to be very big, in this video they tell the differences.If I would like to have a larger / other later, the costs are manageable, I think ....
Or is the Flashforge Creator really worth the extra money (my dad wants to contribute too)?Thank you for explaining the Raspberry Pi addition,
I have already seen a tutorial how it works, I still have a Pi-3 and Pi-2, which I can use nicely, also in combination with a camera. -
Go for the Ender. It has wide support. You'll love it. Later you can always sell it second hand - precisely because it's such a popular machine.
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@pptacek
Thank you for your response to my message,
It took a little longer on this side because my work took a lot of time this week.1 & 2 will not apply to me either, I may not have 3D printing experience, but I have enough technical skills to adjust and assemble something, but I don't want to be able to print something first. half an hour to adjust everything.
So if I see your message like this, it would end up on the Ender 3 (Pro?) Or the Flashforge Creator Pro.
I was thinking of max € 500 myself, but is it worth the price difference of about € 400?Ender 3 = € 180
Ender 3-Pro = € 235
Flashforge Creater Pro = 625@dzjr difference between Ender & FFCP is huge. Let me point out the most important once:
- Enclosed build volume. You can print ABS, ASA, HIPS, PC, or any other "engineering" materials which shrink a lot and they WILL delaminate if printed on something like Ender.
- Two extruders mean you can print support structures using soluble filaments. That will give you an advantage in printing complex parts.
- Z only moves up. Let it sink for a bit. On the Ender, you are moving the entire mass of the print with every Y move. It is a terrible concept and only works for tiny printers.
I understand why people like small RepRap printers (Ender). They are cheap, simple, easy to understand, and easy to fix. But they have serious limits which some people are underplaying. RepRap printers, in general, can never achieve higher print quality than gantry or corexy printers. It is simple physics. Enclosed, they take prohibitive amounts of space compare to their build volume, etc ...
I'm not saying they are bad. Just know your limits. Ender is great if you are on a budget.
Good luck!Edit: It is also important to mention, that getting "a printer" to where you want it to be, usually costs at least the same amount as the printer itself. So if you buy € 235 printer, expect to spend another ~€ 250 to do upgrades (PEI build surface, better extruder, better hotend, BL-touch, stiffening brackets, ... list never ends). This is not a cheap hobby, really.
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@dzjr difference between Ender & FFCP is huge. Let me point out the most important once:
- Enclosed build volume. You can print ABS, ASA, HIPS, PC, or any other "engineering" materials which shrink a lot and they WILL delaminate if printed on something like Ender.
- Two extruders mean you can print support structures using soluble filaments. That will give you an advantage in printing complex parts.
- Z only moves up. Let it sink for a bit. On the Ender, you are moving the entire mass of the print with every Y move. It is a terrible concept and only works for tiny printers.
I understand why people like small RepRap printers (Ender). They are cheap, simple, easy to understand, and easy to fix. But they have serious limits which some people are underplaying. RepRap printers, in general, can never achieve higher print quality than gantry or corexy printers. It is simple physics. Enclosed, they take prohibitive amounts of space compare to their build volume, etc ...
I'm not saying they are bad. Just know your limits. Ender is great if you are on a budget.
Good luck!Edit: It is also important to mention, that getting "a printer" to where you want it to be, usually costs at least the same amount as the printer itself. So if you buy € 235 printer, expect to spend another ~€ 250 to do upgrades (PEI build surface, better extruder, better hotend, BL-touch, stiffening brackets, ... list never ends). This is not a cheap hobby, really.
@pptacek Thank you,
Clear explanation, it certainly has an important difference.
Do you think I have to pay a significant amount for the FFCP to improve it?
I had more or less opted for the Ender-3, but I can still opt for the FFCP ...
I understand that it is not a cheap hobby, hence the question of what is the best buy for me as a start.
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@pptacek Thank you,
Clear explanation, it certainly has an important difference.
Do you think I have to pay a significant amount for the FFCP to improve it?
I had more or less opted for the Ender-3, but I can still opt for the FFCP ...
I understand that it is not a cheap hobby, hence the question of what is the best buy for me as a start.
@dzjr To be completely fair, there is one big downside of the FFCP and it is the control board. FFCP is running an 8-bit MightyBoard (MakerBot board) clone which is running Sailfish firmware. That FW is great for what it does on 8-bit UC, but that era is now gone. I still have it, I still use it, but there is and won't be any new development. So sooner or later, you would likely have to replace it with something else.
So, unless you really need to print ABS, ASA, PC, Nylon, or other "hard" stuff, my suggestion is to go with Ender with an open mind (and side budget) that you will do updates. This will get you into the 3d printing quickly and you will learn some valuable lessons without wasting much money. If you find out you like it and you "need some more", I strongly suggest you go for good CoreXY experience.
If you know you need to print for outdoors (ASA) or you will be doing some engineering parts from ABS, PC, or Nylon, forget about Ender and start saving for something better.
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@dzjr To be completely fair, there is one big downside of the FFCP and it is the control board. FFCP is running an 8-bit MightyBoard (MakerBot board) clone which is running Sailfish firmware. That FW is great for what it does on 8-bit UC, but that era is now gone. I still have it, I still use it, but there is and won't be any new development. So sooner or later, you would likely have to replace it with something else.
So, unless you really need to print ABS, ASA, PC, Nylon, or other "hard" stuff, my suggestion is to go with Ender with an open mind (and side budget) that you will do updates. This will get you into the 3d printing quickly and you will learn some valuable lessons without wasting much money. If you find out you like it and you "need some more", I strongly suggest you go for good CoreXY experience.
If you know you need to print for outdoors (ASA) or you will be doing some engineering parts from ABS, PC, or Nylon, forget about Ender and start saving for something better.
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Well, so I bought the Ender3, but can't say it's a good buy ....
To be honest, I regret it very much and am thinking about getting rid of it.
I have had the printer for over two weeks now, and have been leveling the bed every night for two weeks.
I have already taken the printer apart and reassembled it with a square hook, but that does not help.
If I think that the bed has been leveled correctly and again prints a test print from here, the second print does not go well ....
Yes, I heated bed (45 degrees C) before leveling.
and I already have several youtube videos where they say, leveling is an easy job ...Does anyone have a tip?
Or is choosing a different 3D printer a better idea? -
If they ship the Ender 3 with the same bed as they did when it was still in "Public Beta", there's a good chance that it isn't flat at all. Mine had a wide and deep dip in the center that warped inconsistently when heated. Creality was kind enough to send a free replacement heat bed and build surface which was level.
I still added a glass plate (IKEA LOTS mirror tile, 8 EUR for a 4-pack) on top, because I think it is a better print surface than this rough and grippy BuildTak stuff. Prints are super shiny on the bottom side, they adhere well and come off with just a gentle touch if you allow them to cool down after the print has finished - just clean it regularly with soap and water. I didn't even need to level the bed again in years of regular use.
Another solution might be to get a bed leveling sensor like the BLTouch and flashing a suitable firmware like Marlin on the Ender. It'll detect any tilt in the bed or uneven surfaces and compensate for that in software.
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Well, so I bought the Ender3, but can't say it's a good buy ....
To be honest, I regret it very much and am thinking about getting rid of it.
I have had the printer for over two weeks now, and have been leveling the bed every night for two weeks.
I have already taken the printer apart and reassembled it with a square hook, but that does not help.
If I think that the bed has been leveled correctly and again prints a test print from here, the second print does not go well ....
Yes, I heated bed (45 degrees C) before leveling.
and I already have several youtube videos where they say, leveling is an easy job ...Does anyone have a tip?
Or is choosing a different 3D printer a better idea?@dzjr I don't think you mentioned exactly which problem you're having, but maybe try a different (better) print filament. They're not all the same, and maybe you got unlucky with whichever one you picked. The good news is that whatever problem you're having, there are known solutions on how to fix it.
The learning curve can be pretty steep if it's your first 3D printer. AFAIK, none of them are yet at the level of just unbox and print and never have any problems. Maybe that's why the big companies like Xerox, Canon, HP, and the rest aren't yet offering much in the way of consumer level 3D printers? I've been curious as to why they haven't jumped in to the market. I would think that professional level design from someone like, say, HP, would utterly blow away the mom and pop products that currently dominant. I have a Prusia printer, and, no offense, it looks like it was designed by sophomore college students who had only pocket change to pay for supplies. It works, but I have no doubt that a good team of engineers could design something better, faster, cheaper, more accurate, more reliable, more elegant, and easy to manufacture in volume.
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If they ship the Ender 3 with the same bed as they did when it was still in "Public Beta", there's a good chance that it isn't flat at all. Mine had a wide and deep dip in the center that warped inconsistently when heated. Creality was kind enough to send a free replacement heat bed and build surface which was level.
I still added a glass plate (IKEA LOTS mirror tile, 8 EUR for a 4-pack) on top, because I think it is a better print surface than this rough and grippy BuildTak stuff. Prints are super shiny on the bottom side, they adhere well and come off with just a gentle touch if you allow them to cool down after the print has finished - just clean it regularly with soap and water. I didn't even need to level the bed again in years of regular use.
Another solution might be to get a bed leveling sensor like the BLTouch and flashing a suitable firmware like Marlin on the Ender. It'll detect any tilt in the bed or uneven surfaces and compensate for that in software.
@BearWithBeard Thank you for your response,
I do notice that the print nozzle runs free on the sides, and gets stuck in the middle ....
and that the back seems more stable than the front, the springs behind are much tighter.
I will visit IKEA next week and purchase the LOTS.
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@dzjr I don't think you mentioned exactly which problem you're having, but maybe try a different (better) print filament. They're not all the same, and maybe you got unlucky with whichever one you picked. The good news is that whatever problem you're having, there are known solutions on how to fix it.
The learning curve can be pretty steep if it's your first 3D printer. AFAIK, none of them are yet at the level of just unbox and print and never have any problems. Maybe that's why the big companies like Xerox, Canon, HP, and the rest aren't yet offering much in the way of consumer level 3D printers? I've been curious as to why they haven't jumped in to the market. I would think that professional level design from someone like, say, HP, would utterly blow away the mom and pop products that currently dominant. I have a Prusia printer, and, no offense, it looks like it was designed by sophomore college students who had only pocket change to pay for supplies. It works, but I have no doubt that a good team of engineers could design something better, faster, cheaper, more accurate, more reliable, more elegant, and easy to manufacture in volume.
@NeverDie
The main "problem" is that I just cannot get the bed stable, I will get an IKEA LOTS first, and I will take the printer out and assemble it again.I understand that the printer needs to be adjusted, but I am a little disappointed that the YouTube videos pretend that it is a job of 5 to 10 minutes, but it takes more than 10 days for me ...
Apparently I put something wrong together, I will watch the CHEP video again.I'm going to take the printer completely apart and then reassemble it piece by piece, and then I'll post the result.
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@NeverDie
The main "problem" is that I just cannot get the bed stable, I will get an IKEA LOTS first, and I will take the printer out and assemble it again.I understand that the printer needs to be adjusted, but I am a little disappointed that the YouTube videos pretend that it is a job of 5 to 10 minutes, but it takes more than 10 days for me ...
Apparently I put something wrong together, I will watch the CHEP video again.I'm going to take the printer completely apart and then reassemble it piece by piece, and then I'll post the result.
@dzjr Your build surface needs to be as flat as possible. You can easily check it with a straightedge: if you can see daylight under the straight edge in any orientation, then it's not flat enough. I don't know how Ender 3 does it, but on the Prusia there are extremely strong magnets that grab the build surface and flatten it against a fairly thick (and very flat) PCB (which is where the heating elements are).
In theory you could also overcome the problem with very extensive bed leveling (as is common in CNC'ing PCBs), but that's a slow process, and you're better off not having to resort to that.
Good luck!
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@dzjr Your build surface needs to be as flat as possible. You can easily check it with a straightedge: if you can see daylight under the straight edge in any orientation, then it's not flat enough. I don't know how Ender 3 does it, but on the Prusia there are extremely strong magnets that grab the build surface and flatten it against a fairly thick (and very flat) PCB (which is where the heating elements are).
In theory you could also overcome the problem with very extensive bed leveling (as is common in CNC'ing PCBs), but that's a slow process, and you're better off not having to resort to that.
Good luck!
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i have checked the bed, it looks like it is not flat, also the horizontal profile is not flat.
i am now trying to sell it.....
image url)
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If they ship the Ender 3 with the same bed as they did when it was still in "Public Beta", there's a good chance that it isn't flat at all. Mine had a wide and deep dip in the center that warped inconsistently when heated. Creality was kind enough to send a free replacement heat bed and build surface which was level.
I still added a glass plate (IKEA LOTS mirror tile, 8 EUR for a 4-pack) on top, because I think it is a better print surface than this rough and grippy BuildTak stuff. Prints are super shiny on the bottom side, they adhere well and come off with just a gentle touch if you allow them to cool down after the print has finished - just clean it regularly with soap and water. I didn't even need to level the bed again in years of regular use.
Another solution might be to get a bed leveling sensor like the BLTouch and flashing a suitable firmware like Marlin on the Ender. It'll detect any tilt in the bed or uneven surfaces and compensate for that in software.
Like many, I have been mulling about getting a 3D printer for years. Finally it seems they are getting to at least decent quality (maybe?). Well, certainly a lot of the trail blazing has been done, and prices come down a lot... So maybe it is time finally.
@BearWithBeard said in Best 3d printers:
I still added a glass plate (IKEA LOTS mirror tile, 8 EUR for a 4-pack) on top, because I think it is a better print surface than this rough and grippy BuildTak stuff. Prints are super shiny on the bottom side, they adhere well and come off with just a gentle touch if you allow them to cool down after the print has finished - just clean it regularly with soap and water. I didn't even need to level the bed again in years of regular use.
This is very interesting. One of biggest features of Prusa i3 mk3 I have seen is that very clever spring steel bed that you just pop off and bend and the piece comes right off. I have read all sorts of stuff about hairspray, etc. and it all seems like such a hassle and mess to me. But it sounds like you have really found the solution to this particular problem.
Wanted to ask you how you were getting on with your Prusa i3 mk 3 by now? I read some threads going back years where you were comparing options and then decided to purchase that one.
I think your thought process is a lot like mine (not just in this, but also other comments of yours I have read). I specifically recall you saying how you noticed a pattern in all these review videos where people bought "ready to go out of box" which is really just a kit and then they spend a lot of time dickering with it and then finally end up with something nice. :D I have noticed the same thing!
I know you said you bought Prusa largely because family reasons (ease of use, etc.) but I am thinking now of building my own from scratch, maybe one of big cube designs as they seem more stable, and no matter what it seems that you end up tinkering a lot anyway, doing upgrades over time, etc... So the way I see it, if you are doing to do all that effort anyway, might as well save yourself some money...
That nifty bed release thing though was one of last remaining things left in favor of Prusa for me, but now if @BearWithBeard is saying a simple glass plate can work just as well, then... :thinking_face:
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Like many, I have been mulling about getting a 3D printer for years. Finally it seems they are getting to at least decent quality (maybe?). Well, certainly a lot of the trail blazing has been done, and prices come down a lot... So maybe it is time finally.
@BearWithBeard said in Best 3d printers:
I still added a glass plate (IKEA LOTS mirror tile, 8 EUR for a 4-pack) on top, because I think it is a better print surface than this rough and grippy BuildTak stuff. Prints are super shiny on the bottom side, they adhere well and come off with just a gentle touch if you allow them to cool down after the print has finished - just clean it regularly with soap and water. I didn't even need to level the bed again in years of regular use.
This is very interesting. One of biggest features of Prusa i3 mk3 I have seen is that very clever spring steel bed that you just pop off and bend and the piece comes right off. I have read all sorts of stuff about hairspray, etc. and it all seems like such a hassle and mess to me. But it sounds like you have really found the solution to this particular problem.
Wanted to ask you how you were getting on with your Prusa i3 mk 3 by now? I read some threads going back years where you were comparing options and then decided to purchase that one.
I think your thought process is a lot like mine (not just in this, but also other comments of yours I have read). I specifically recall you saying how you noticed a pattern in all these review videos where people bought "ready to go out of box" which is really just a kit and then they spend a lot of time dickering with it and then finally end up with something nice. :D I have noticed the same thing!
I know you said you bought Prusa largely because family reasons (ease of use, etc.) but I am thinking now of building my own from scratch, maybe one of big cube designs as they seem more stable, and no matter what it seems that you end up tinkering a lot anyway, doing upgrades over time, etc... So the way I see it, if you are doing to do all that effort anyway, might as well save yourself some money...
That nifty bed release thing though was one of last remaining things left in favor of Prusa for me, but now if @BearWithBeard is saying a simple glass plate can work just as well, then... :thinking_face:
@TRS-80 said in Best 3d printers:
Wanted to ask you how you were getting on with your Prusa i3 mk 3 by now?
Well, for me, the main value in a 3D printer turned out to be building custom enclosures, because the effort/reward ratio is favorable. However, getting to the point where it's easy to do that takes quite a lot of time, and so I can't say I would recommend it. Also, the fumes and the noise are negatives that don't really get as much consideration as they should. The solutions for that still seem to be all DIY, unless you want to spend a small fortune for something aimed at schools or big business.
I found that a CNC machine is far more useful, because I could make PCB's with it rather than having to wait for delivery from JLPCB or whomever. However, I haven't tried chemical etching, and, maybe all things considered, that would have been a better/easier approach, so I can't strongly recommend a CNC either.
Thee was a time when Ender 3's were considered pretty good bang/buck. Seeing what happened to dzjr though, I do wonder whether the mfg. decided to cash out that reputation by sacrificing quality.
Building your own from scratch? Maybe in the end it's the same amount of effort. I can't say, because I haven't tried it. I can say, though, that I've built and re-built the Prusia enough times now that maybe I may as well have. If you have "the knack," I think building something from scratch using better quality parts (such as high quality linear bearings and not the cheap stuff) could make a lot of sense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx6HojLBsnwThe main advantage of a kit is risk mitigation. If you put it together according to the directions, then it should work, at least nominally. i.e. "No thinking required." Dzjr's case seems more the exception than the rule.
Even so, I wouldn't recommend a 3D printer if you don't have "the knack." And if you have "the knack," then you know you have it.
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@TRS-80 said in Best 3d printers:
Wanted to ask you how you were getting on with your Prusa i3 mk 3 by now?
Well, for me, the main value in a 3D printer turned out to be building custom enclosures, because the effort/reward ratio is favorable. However, getting to the point where it's easy to do that takes quite a lot of time, and so I can't say I would recommend it. Also, the fumes and the noise are negatives that don't really get as much consideration as they should. The solutions for that still seem to be all DIY, unless you want to spend a small fortune for something aimed at schools or big business.
I found that a CNC machine is far more useful, because I could make PCB's with it rather than having to wait for delivery from JLPCB or whomever. However, I haven't tried chemical etching, and, maybe all things considered, that would have been a better/easier approach, so I can't strongly recommend a CNC either.
Thee was a time when Ender 3's were considered pretty good bang/buck. Seeing what happened to dzjr though, I do wonder whether the mfg. decided to cash out that reputation by sacrificing quality.
Building your own from scratch? Maybe in the end it's the same amount of effort. I can't say, because I haven't tried it. I can say, though, that I've built and re-built the Prusia enough times now that maybe I may as well have. If you have "the knack," I think building something from scratch using better quality parts (such as high quality linear bearings and not the cheap stuff) could make a lot of sense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx6HojLBsnwThe main advantage of a kit is risk mitigation. If you put it together according to the directions, then it should work, at least nominally. i.e. "No thinking required." Dzjr's case seems more the exception than the rule.
Even so, I wouldn't recommend a 3D printer if you don't have "the knack." And if you have "the knack," then you know you have it.
@NeverDie said in Best 3d printers:
I've built and re-built the Prusia enough times now that maybe I may as well have
See, now this surprises me. The whole thing about the Prusa is that it is supposed to be "ready to go / well engineered solution." And IMO you are paying a premium for that.
I think you are confirming my suspicions to build my own.
In fact I came to same conclusion in almost all areas (IT, vehicles, building, etc.) and pretty much do all my own work. I suppose that is what drew me to MySensors as well (and OpenHAB, and GNU/Linux, etc...).
And yes, I have "The Knack" LOL! I got a great kick out of that, and shared it already to my family. My wife calls it "bedtime stories" when I start talking about my projects. :D She mostly humors me though, bless her heart.
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@NeverDie said in Best 3d printers:
I've built and re-built the Prusia enough times now that maybe I may as well have
See, now this surprises me. The whole thing about the Prusa is that it is supposed to be "ready to go / well engineered solution." And IMO you are paying a premium for that.
I think you are confirming my suspicions to build my own.
In fact I came to same conclusion in almost all areas (IT, vehicles, building, etc.) and pretty much do all my own work. I suppose that is what drew me to MySensors as well (and OpenHAB, and GNU/Linux, etc...).
And yes, I have "The Knack" LOL! I got a great kick out of that, and shared it already to my family. My wife calls it "bedtime stories" when I start talking about my projects. :D She mostly humors me though, bless her heart.
@TRS-80 said in Best 3d printers:
See, now this surprises me. The whole thing about the Prusa is that it is supposed to be "ready to go / well engineered solution." And IMO you are paying a premium for that.
The reality is more like this plumber's advice about bronze pipe. "It's great, until something goes wrong. And something always goes wrong":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1slibJ52yocFor example, if the sensor that tracks whether the filament is jammed goes bad, then you have a lot of disassembly and re-assembly ahead of you in order to replace it. You can probably guess how I might know this.
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Like many, I have been mulling about getting a 3D printer for years. Finally it seems they are getting to at least decent quality (maybe?). Well, certainly a lot of the trail blazing has been done, and prices come down a lot... So maybe it is time finally.
@BearWithBeard said in Best 3d printers:
I still added a glass plate (IKEA LOTS mirror tile, 8 EUR for a 4-pack) on top, because I think it is a better print surface than this rough and grippy BuildTak stuff. Prints are super shiny on the bottom side, they adhere well and come off with just a gentle touch if you allow them to cool down after the print has finished - just clean it regularly with soap and water. I didn't even need to level the bed again in years of regular use.
This is very interesting. One of biggest features of Prusa i3 mk3 I have seen is that very clever spring steel bed that you just pop off and bend and the piece comes right off. I have read all sorts of stuff about hairspray, etc. and it all seems like such a hassle and mess to me. But it sounds like you have really found the solution to this particular problem.
Wanted to ask you how you were getting on with your Prusa i3 mk 3 by now? I read some threads going back years where you were comparing options and then decided to purchase that one.
I think your thought process is a lot like mine (not just in this, but also other comments of yours I have read). I specifically recall you saying how you noticed a pattern in all these review videos where people bought "ready to go out of box" which is really just a kit and then they spend a lot of time dickering with it and then finally end up with something nice. :D I have noticed the same thing!
I know you said you bought Prusa largely because family reasons (ease of use, etc.) but I am thinking now of building my own from scratch, maybe one of big cube designs as they seem more stable, and no matter what it seems that you end up tinkering a lot anyway, doing upgrades over time, etc... So the way I see it, if you are doing to do all that effort anyway, might as well save yourself some money...
That nifty bed release thing though was one of last remaining things left in favor of Prusa for me, but now if @BearWithBeard is saying a simple glass plate can work just as well, then... :thinking_face:
I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I'm happy with the Ender 3 and have no need nor desire for another (filament) printer. The print area is large enough for my needs - custom electronics enclosures, spare parts / repairs, little mechanical tools and gadgets, etc. Print resolution and detail is fine, I generally have no noteworthy quality complaints aside from the occasional stringing (which is easy to remove with a lighter or hot air gun). Maintenance is as minimal as it gets: keep the v-groove wheels, belts and lead screw dust free, clean the glass bed. Talking about the glass plate: I fixate it with two regular metal binder clips to the original print surface. It sits tight in place and it's removable within seconds. I don't use hairspray, glue (I tried once - oh boy, what a mess) or anything else, I just rinse it with warm water and soap after a couple of prints. That's it. Keeping it in a good temperature window seems to be key for proper adhesion. I generally start the print with a bed temperature of 65°C for the first (few) layers and drop it to 50°C afterwards for PLA.
Now this doesn't mean that I want to persuade anyone to buy an Ender 3. I don't know if they are still recommended nowadays or if Creality may have started milking the cow. Honestly, I stopped following the 3D printer communities and news once I got my Ender 3 dialed in and achieved pleasing results. I really don't know which printer one should buy today.
But in the end, I don't think it matters much which printer you get. You can achieve good quality prints with most of them and in a lot of cases you'd have a hard time telling if something has been printed on a budget or high-end printer. It is much more important to learn how to use a (as in any) filament printer. How to use a slicer properly, learning what implications different temperatures, speeds and feed rates have, layer heights, how much infill is needed, which distances can be bridged, how steep overhangs and arches can be, retraction speed and distance, to-z-hop-or-not, finding the optimal extruder and bed temperatures for a specific filament, acceleration and jerk limits, cooling,... Knowing the basics of G-code is also very helpful to understand why a printer is doing something or even modify the print. Actually, it already starts with the design process in a CAD program - choosing a proper wall thickness, keeping the structure of the model in mind, avoiding supports if possible, etc.
No matter how expensive or pre-built and -tuned your printer is, those are things you need to get behind either way. The learning curve with a preconfigured, factory-calibrated printer might be less steep compared to a budget kit, because you are more likely to simply adopt the recommended settings from the manufacturer or other community members.
In this regard: if you're a tinkerer and like some challenges, you may as well build one yourself and have a great time! I'm looking forward to build a custom CNC (>1m² of surface area, for woodworking and occasional soft metal milling) soon - hopefully before the end of the year - rather because I'm interested in the build than having an urgent need for one. :blush:
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I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I'm happy with the Ender 3 and have no need nor desire for another (filament) printer. The print area is large enough for my needs - custom electronics enclosures, spare parts / repairs, little mechanical tools and gadgets, etc. Print resolution and detail is fine, I generally have no noteworthy quality complaints aside from the occasional stringing (which is easy to remove with a lighter or hot air gun). Maintenance is as minimal as it gets: keep the v-groove wheels, belts and lead screw dust free, clean the glass bed. Talking about the glass plate: I fixate it with two regular metal binder clips to the original print surface. It sits tight in place and it's removable within seconds. I don't use hairspray, glue (I tried once - oh boy, what a mess) or anything else, I just rinse it with warm water and soap after a couple of prints. That's it. Keeping it in a good temperature window seems to be key for proper adhesion. I generally start the print with a bed temperature of 65°C for the first (few) layers and drop it to 50°C afterwards for PLA.
Now this doesn't mean that I want to persuade anyone to buy an Ender 3. I don't know if they are still recommended nowadays or if Creality may have started milking the cow. Honestly, I stopped following the 3D printer communities and news once I got my Ender 3 dialed in and achieved pleasing results. I really don't know which printer one should buy today.
But in the end, I don't think it matters much which printer you get. You can achieve good quality prints with most of them and in a lot of cases you'd have a hard time telling if something has been printed on a budget or high-end printer. It is much more important to learn how to use a (as in any) filament printer. How to use a slicer properly, learning what implications different temperatures, speeds and feed rates have, layer heights, how much infill is needed, which distances can be bridged, how steep overhangs and arches can be, retraction speed and distance, to-z-hop-or-not, finding the optimal extruder and bed temperatures for a specific filament, acceleration and jerk limits, cooling,... Knowing the basics of G-code is also very helpful to understand why a printer is doing something or even modify the print. Actually, it already starts with the design process in a CAD program - choosing a proper wall thickness, keeping the structure of the model in mind, avoiding supports if possible, etc.
No matter how expensive or pre-built and -tuned your printer is, those are things you need to get behind either way. The learning curve with a preconfigured, factory-calibrated printer might be less steep compared to a budget kit, because you are more likely to simply adopt the recommended settings from the manufacturer or other community members.
In this regard: if you're a tinkerer and like some challenges, you may as well build one yourself and have a great time! I'm looking forward to build a custom CNC (>1m² of surface area, for woodworking and occasional soft metal milling) soon - hopefully before the end of the year - rather because I'm interested in the build than having an urgent need for one. :blush:
@BearWithBeard said in Best 3d printers:
I'm happy with the Ender 3 and have no need nor desire for another (filament) printer. The print area is large enough for my needs, [...] Print resolution and detail is fine, I generally have no noteworthy quality complaints aside from the occasional stringing [...] Maintenance is as minimal
Yeah, then I keep waffling back and forth to this. Seems there are quite a number of quite decent "ready to go" units available these days for not too much money.
@BearWithBeard said in Best 3d printers:
But in the end, I don't think it matters much which printer you get...
This point is also well taken. Sounds there is going to be a learning curve no matter what. Maybe a little less so with a widely deployed model...
I dunno, I think... I will keep thinking (for now). :) Thanks for the feedback, guys.
EDIT: Those CNC are something I keep looking at, too...
