[SOLVED] Troubleshooting MQTT Gateway with Amplified NRF24L01+PA+LNA Long Range Antenna
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The GW is receiving incoming messages just fine. Nodes 3 to 6 are sending find parent requests and the GW attempts to reply, but it can't reach the nodes.
So first of all, the Arduino Nano may not be able to deliver enough current for this NRF24 PA-LNA module, which can draw more than 100mA in high power modes. The Nano has no dedicated regulator for 3.3V. It provides the voltage through an in the UART controller integrated LDO, which may provide 20 - 50mA depending on the particular chip. Drawing more than that continuously can potentially damage the UART controller.
If you use another power supply to feed the NRF24 with 3.3V (you did connect both grounds, didn't you?), there may still be too much noise. You may try to add a ceramic capacitor (~100nF) in addition to the electrolytic capacitor to help filter out high-frequency noise as well. Try lowering the
MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL, which reduces power consumption during transmission. Shielding (and grounding it) the module by wrapping it with aluminium foil may help, too. Maybe try a different 2.4 GHz antenna.Besides that, I didn't have much luck with those cheap PA-LNA modules. Mine had barely a better range than the regular, non-amplified transceivers and they were generally rather unreliable, dropping messages seemingly randomly.
You also never know which knock-off NRF24 clones you get on those modules. Some work great, some not so much.
If nothing helps, I'd suggest investing in better transceivers. For example CDEbyte E01-ML01DP5 if you wish to stick with NRF24. It has the same pinout, so it is interchangeable. I use them in my GW and repeaters and they are far more reliable than those black ones.
@BearWithBeard thanks for the response. Few things I might have failed to tie in both grounds so I will check on that today to see if that helps. I did try shielding with foil as well as lowering the PA but neither worked. I'll swing by in a bit and let you know if that floating ground may have been my issue. If it isn't I might consider the other radio you mentioned. What kind of range are you getting with those?
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The GW is receiving incoming messages just fine. Nodes 3 to 6 are sending find parent requests and the GW attempts to reply, but it can't reach the nodes.
So first of all, the Arduino Nano may not be able to deliver enough current for this NRF24 PA-LNA module, which can draw more than 100mA in high power modes. The Nano has no dedicated regulator for 3.3V. It provides the voltage through an in the UART controller integrated LDO, which may provide 20 - 50mA depending on the particular chip. Drawing more than that continuously can potentially damage the UART controller.
If you use another power supply to feed the NRF24 with 3.3V (you did connect both grounds, didn't you?), there may still be too much noise. You may try to add a ceramic capacitor (~100nF) in addition to the electrolytic capacitor to help filter out high-frequency noise as well. Try lowering the
MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL, which reduces power consumption during transmission. Shielding (and grounding it) the module by wrapping it with aluminium foil may help, too. Maybe try a different 2.4 GHz antenna.Besides that, I didn't have much luck with those cheap PA-LNA modules. Mine had barely a better range than the regular, non-amplified transceivers and they were generally rather unreliable, dropping messages seemingly randomly.
You also never know which knock-off NRF24 clones you get on those modules. Some work great, some not so much.
If nothing helps, I'd suggest investing in better transceivers. For example CDEbyte E01-ML01DP5 if you wish to stick with NRF24. It has the same pinout, so it is interchangeable. I use them in my GW and repeaters and they are far more reliable than those black ones.
@BearWithBeard hello again, I went ahead and checked it and I did have the grounds bonded together so nothing. I tried a second antenna ( same brand) and get similar results. I tried adding another cap just in case the one I have is faulty but no difference. Unfortunately, I do not have a ceramic cap but I'll see if I can get one of those to test. I have gone ahead and ordered the CDEByte radios but they will take over a month to get here :( . I also made sure to reduce the PA level to min and still has the same effect. Guess I am going back to the normal pcb transceiver. Bummed out that I can't get this to work. I thought it would be a simple swap of modules although I did realize the power requirements were different. The aluminum foil thing didn't do a thing for me either. If you can think of anything else I can try let me know.
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No, sorry. If you're certain that you supply clean, stable 3.3V with enough current to the PA-LNA and nothing else in your setup changed, I'm out of ideas what could be causing the issue, apart from the NRF24 module itself or the antennas.
Regarding the E01-ML01DP5 transceivers, I can cover a three-story house (pumice stone walls and reinforced concrete floors) plus attic and basement with a GW and a single repeater (see rough sketch below) - which is roughly the same range of my 2.4GHz WiFi signal (WiFI router + WiFi repeater) - whereas with those black modules, I had to use a repeater on every floor. But be aware that RF signals can be influenced by many external factors. Just because I can reach through multiple stone walls, it doesn't warrant the same in anybody else's location.
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No, sorry. If you're certain that you supply clean, stable 3.3V with enough current to the PA-LNA and nothing else in your setup changed, I'm out of ideas what could be causing the issue, apart from the NRF24 module itself or the antennas.
Regarding the E01-ML01DP5 transceivers, I can cover a three-story house (pumice stone walls and reinforced concrete floors) plus attic and basement with a GW and a single repeater (see rough sketch below) - which is roughly the same range of my 2.4GHz WiFi signal (WiFI router + WiFi repeater) - whereas with those black modules, I had to use a repeater on every floor. But be aware that RF signals can be influenced by many external factors. Just because I can reach through multiple stone walls, it doesn't warrant the same in anybody else's location.
@BearWithBeard ok sounds good, I assume with this I would be able to talk to all my other nodes that are on the pcb antenna type NRF modules. I purchased two of the CDEByte modules so I can add a repeater if needed later. I'll swing back in a month once I set it all up.
One other question, if I wanted to power this new module and a nano off of a good quality USB plug, could I get one of these https://amzn.to/38h3DfW and power it from the 5v pin on the nano to get my 3v3? If not any suggestions on what the best way to do that would be? Want to make sure I get whatever I need before the new modules get here.
Thanks again!
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So you mean USB > Nano > 5V Pin > 1117-3.3 Regulator > 3.3V for NRF24? Yes, that should work. The Nano passes 5V from the USB port more or less straight through to the 5V pin. Add some capacitors to the regulator, 10µF in and 10 - 100µF out electrolytic or tantalum should be fine to ensure its stability.
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So you mean USB > Nano > 5V Pin > 1117-3.3 Regulator > 3.3V for NRF24? Yes, that should work. The Nano passes 5V from the USB port more or less straight through to the 5V pin. Add some capacitors to the regulator, 10µF in and 10 - 100µF out electrolytic or tantalum should be fine to ensure its stability.
@BearWithBeard awesome thanks again for your help!
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@BearWithBeard I found my problem. It turns out my arduino had a false contact on one of the ground pins I was using to power my radio. When I noticed, I resoldered the header pin on the nano and it magically started working. It works with both the normal and the long range antenna and I do see a big difference in range. Thanks for all the help again. Guess I will have some spare radios now...
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Just got the modules but neither of them worked as a drop-in. Did you by any chance have to do anything different with these CD-Byte modules? I like that they are smaller and do look like the craftsmanship is a bit better. Was waiting for it to print out a case for it but I guess I am back to the drawing board. In the meantime, the older amplified modules are working great.
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Just got the modules but neither of them worked as a drop-in. Did you by any chance have to do anything different with these CD-Byte modules? I like that they are smaller and do look like the craftsmanship is a bit better. Was waiting for it to print out a case for it but I guess I am back to the drawing board. In the meantime, the older amplified modules are working great.
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@Yveaux said in Troubleshooting MQTT Gateway with Amplified NRF24L01+PA+LNA Long Range Antenna:
heck the pinout?
I got these, https://amzn.to/380eBob "nRF24L01 SPI PA LNA 2.4GHz rf Module E01-ML01DP5 2.5km iot 2.4 ghz rf Transmitter Receiver with Shield for arduino nRF24L01P". The pinout does look identical. I haven't had a chance to plug the gateway into monitor to see what the logs are saying just yet.
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@Yveaux said in Troubleshooting MQTT Gateway with Amplified NRF24L01+PA+LNA Long Range Antenna:
heck the pinout?
I got these, https://amzn.to/380eBob "nRF24L01 SPI PA LNA 2.4GHz rf Module E01-ML01DP5 2.5km iot 2.4 ghz rf Transmitter Receiver with Shield for arduino nRF24L01P". The pinout does look identical. I haven't had a chance to plug the gateway into monitor to see what the logs are saying just yet.
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@Yveaux said in Troubleshooting MQTT Gateway with Amplified NRF24L01+PA+LNA Long Range Antenna:
heck the pinout?
I got these, https://amzn.to/380eBob "nRF24L01 SPI PA LNA 2.4GHz rf Module E01-ML01DP5 2.5km iot 2.4 ghz rf Transmitter Receiver with Shield for arduino nRF24L01P". The pinout does look identical. I haven't had a chance to plug the gateway into monitor to see what the logs are saying just yet.
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@fifo Those are good modules, I have some here. But you must use a capacitor on the power to them. Have you done this?
@skywatch after many nights of tshooting I found that my power brick was the one causing the issues. Not sure why it worked with old radio and not this one. It didn't cross my mind because it was a Samsung brand name 2000ma power brick and it was working properly, but last night it completely failed even with the old radio. I had no lights on my arduino or my ethernet module. I figured it was a good time to retest and the second I put it online with the new adapter it worked. Just wishing I would have tried that earlier...
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@skywatch after many nights of tshooting I found that my power brick was the one causing the issues. Not sure why it worked with old radio and not this one. It didn't cross my mind because it was a Samsung brand name 2000ma power brick and it was working properly, but last night it completely failed even with the old radio. I had no lights on my arduino or my ethernet module. I figured it was a good time to retest and the second I put it online with the new adapter it worked. Just wishing I would have tried that earlier...
@fifo Well done! - probably the new module needed a little extra power and the power brick was already failing so this pushed it over the edge. Failing psu can be difficult to diagnose until they fail completely, especially if encapsulated.
Power supply and cabling are usual suspects in this type of work.
Well done and good luck with the rest of the project!
