Connecting smoke detectors to house alarm
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@vecnar The BRK smoke detectors are cheap. Therefore, maybe buy an extra one, wire it into the circuit just as if it were yet another BRK regular smoke alarm, but perhaps put a voltage detecting circuit across the siren leads. In this way, a voltage detection could be what triggers your home alarm system.. I know this sounds kludgy, but the motivation would be that presumably BRK already designed their circuitry to be fault tolerant. Just an idea. Obviously do your own due diligence.
@NeverDie
Thank you for your suggestion, i have one smoke detector just next to alarm panel so may just as well use it for this purpose, providing voltage detect circuit just disables siren and not affect sensor itself. If I do it this way I will rely on functioning interconnect wire to hear alarm detected by that sensor through sirens of other sensors close by. Something to be aware off but as you suggested adding another one just for this purpose would be a more reliable way.
I will test voltage used across the siren and how accessible connections are in coming days and update the post. Is there a ready made voltage detect circuit that could break 5v dc circuit of house alarm zone, i assume it will depend on voltage and current over siren?
Thank you for helping me with this! -
@NeverDie
Thank you for your suggestion, i have one smoke detector just next to alarm panel so may just as well use it for this purpose, providing voltage detect circuit just disables siren and not affect sensor itself. If I do it this way I will rely on functioning interconnect wire to hear alarm detected by that sensor through sirens of other sensors close by. Something to be aware off but as you suggested adding another one just for this purpose would be a more reliable way.
I will test voltage used across the siren and how accessible connections are in coming days and update the post. Is there a ready made voltage detect circuit that could break 5v dc circuit of house alarm zone, i assume it will depend on voltage and current over siren?
Thank you for helping me with this!@vecnar said in Connecting smoke detectors to house alarm:
@NeverDie
Thank you for your suggestion, i have one smoke detector just next to alarm panel so may just as well use it for this purpose, providing voltage detect circuit just disables siren and not affect sensor itself. If I do it this way I will rely on functioning interconnect wire to hear alarm detected by that sensor through sirens of other sensors close by. Something to be aware off but as you suggested adding another one just for this purpose would be a more reliable way.
I will test voltage used across the siren and how accessible connections are in coming days and update the post. Is there a ready made voltage detect circuit that could break 5v dc circuit of house alarm zone, i assume it will depend on voltage and current over siren?
Thank you for helping me with this!My first thought would be to either use a dedicated voltage detection chip or else an arduino (or equivalent) with a watchdog. Or maybe use both so as to have redundancy and avoid a single point of failure? For something related to life-safety, you don't want to take any risks at all if you can avoid it, so what might be fine for a hobbyist solution might not be the best answer for this type of application. Maybe for inspiration look into what kind of reliability testing standards apply to life-safety circuitry.
The problem with a DIY one-off solution is: how can you ever really be sure? Perhaps through regular testing, just as with regular smoke alarms? At least with a commercial product a lot of eyes have presumably looked over both the design and the final manufactured product during a review, so any reliabiliity or quality errors are more likely to get caught rather than overlooked. For instance, how well might it cope with power surges, brownouts, and/or lightning strikes? You have to consider the worst possible case operating environment and hopefully design the circuit in such a way that if it fails, it fails into a mode that triggers the home alarm that you have monitoring it. Ideally, you'd also make the circuit in such a way that it could be monitored and perhaps even automatically tested.
Anyhow, please do post whatever it is that you come up with. That's yet another way to get more eyes on the design to possibly reveal whether the design has any flaws or not.
[Edit: maybe use the siren voltage to drive an opto-isolator (or similar) circuit? As a first step, that might be a very easy way to do it, plus you get the added benefits of the isolation. ]
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@vecnar said in Connecting smoke detectors to house alarm:
@NeverDie
Thank you for your suggestion, i have one smoke detector just next to alarm panel so may just as well use it for this purpose, providing voltage detect circuit just disables siren and not affect sensor itself. If I do it this way I will rely on functioning interconnect wire to hear alarm detected by that sensor through sirens of other sensors close by. Something to be aware off but as you suggested adding another one just for this purpose would be a more reliable way.
I will test voltage used across the siren and how accessible connections are in coming days and update the post. Is there a ready made voltage detect circuit that could break 5v dc circuit of house alarm zone, i assume it will depend on voltage and current over siren?
Thank you for helping me with this!My first thought would be to either use a dedicated voltage detection chip or else an arduino (or equivalent) with a watchdog. Or maybe use both so as to have redundancy and avoid a single point of failure? For something related to life-safety, you don't want to take any risks at all if you can avoid it, so what might be fine for a hobbyist solution might not be the best answer for this type of application. Maybe for inspiration look into what kind of reliability testing standards apply to life-safety circuitry.
The problem with a DIY one-off solution is: how can you ever really be sure? Perhaps through regular testing, just as with regular smoke alarms? At least with a commercial product a lot of eyes have presumably looked over both the design and the final manufactured product during a review, so any reliabiliity or quality errors are more likely to get caught rather than overlooked. For instance, how well might it cope with power surges, brownouts, and/or lightning strikes? You have to consider the worst possible case operating environment and hopefully design the circuit in such a way that if it fails, it fails into a mode that triggers the home alarm that you have monitoring it. Ideally, you'd also make the circuit in such a way that it could be monitored and perhaps even automatically tested.
Anyhow, please do post whatever it is that you come up with. That's yet another way to get more eyes on the design to possibly reveal whether the design has any flaws or not.
[Edit: maybe use the siren voltage to drive an opto-isolator (or similar) circuit? As a first step, that might be a very easy way to do it, plus you get the added benefits of the isolation. ]
@NeverDie
Thank you for your insight into this.
If you feel that I shouldn't proceed with this please let me know. I just hate going away and not knowing if any of smoke detectors are set off due to fire or annoying neighbors if sensor is faulty. I can check cameras remotely or ask people close by to check.
I think one voltage detection chip is enough as I am testing smoke sensors on monthly basis (ac input and interconnect functionality) so may as well set alarm while doing one and see if it gets triggered. If it triggers house alarm during power outage it is not a problem as i can disarm/disable zone remotely if false alarm.
I have disassembled one unit that I had laying around that was causing problems with false alarm previously and tested voltage between red and black wires connecting to siren while it was running of 9v battery and pressing test button. Voltage was jumping and the highest my multimeter showed was 4.6v DC, i cut one wire and connected multimeter in line in order to measure DC current but it wouldn't show me anything not sure if i didn't set it properly or current is just so small. Also when i was measuring voltage siren volume was 80% quieter if that makes any sense.I think Edward Cheung was using opto-isolator circuit with normally open zone/circuit but i need to use it with normally closed zone/circuit. So not sure how to proceed with this.
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I've heard of alarm interfaces that are more or less a microphone circuit, where the microphone is located near the smoke alarm, such that when a smoke alarm triggers, the siren goes off and then the microhone picks up the siren, which then serves as a detection which could, in your case, be connected to your alarm system panel.
In the past I always regarded that approach as incredibly kludgy and therefore something to avoid. I still tend to think that, but it does manage to create an air gap between your alarm panel and the interconnected BRK smoke alarms.
Anyhow I have no idea whether anything we've talked about is something you should actually do or not. For one thing, different countries may have different rules and regulations as to what is permissible.
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I've heard of alarm interfaces that are more or less a microphone circuit, where the microphone is located near the smoke alarm, such that when a smoke alarm triggers, the siren goes off and then the microhone picks up the siren, which then serves as a detection which could, in your case, be connected to your alarm system panel.
In the past I always regarded that approach as incredibly kludgy and therefore something to avoid. I still tend to think that, but it does manage to create an air gap between your alarm panel and the interconnected BRK smoke alarms.
Anyhow I have no idea whether anything we've talked about is something you should actually do or not. For one thing, different countries may have different rules and regulations as to what is permissible.
@NeverDie
Thank you for your time and all the help with this.
I was actually thinking of using some type of relay with microphone after sending my reply yesterday but due to smoke detector location in the room with UPS and NAS that can beep it could create more false positives so need to disable those.I just used 2 spare smoke detectors recently due to failures and thought to buy a few extra just in case but no more for sale anywhere in europe. I started looking for new types but majority are going for RF interlink capabilities or provide RF Gateway and no simple way to trigger/interlink with house alarm.
So microphone /sound triggered relay circuit is my only option, size is not a problem as I can place it on the top of alarm panel and power it from it just microphone cable will have to be ~1 meter to reach smoke sensor but i would prefer to leave the board with microphone on top of the panel and adjust sound levels, just not sure how effective that will be.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001010170294.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.398e1225nICgnl&algo_pvid=493ca447-0a34-4eda-a77d-dd8a8f529791&algo_exp_id=493ca447-0a34-4eda-a77d-dd8a8f529791-2https://quasarelectronics.co.uk/Item/cebek-pm-14-vox-controlled-relay-switch-module-with-microphone
Would you advice on adding a fuse between house alarm panel + power aux output and this board, like 100mA to prevent any damage to house alarm panel?Another option would be to install a microphone and connect it to my NAS and use some docker to monitor the sound levels and send email. The problem with this approach is time that email clients on mobile phone check for emails and if no internet connection no notification whereas my house alarm panel uses gsm network to delivery messages.
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If I'm not mistaken, an LED on the smoke alarm will illuminate when there is an alarm event. Perhaps you could just glue a photodetector over it to detect when an alarm event occurs? In essence, you'd be making a kind of optoisolator, but without making any changes to any of the smoke alarm elecctronics.
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If I'm not mistaken, an LED on the smoke alarm will illuminate when there is an alarm event. Perhaps you could just glue a photodetector over it to detect when an alarm event occurs? In essence, you'd be making a kind of optoisolator, but without making any changes to any of the smoke alarm elecctronics.
@NeverDie said in Connecting smoke detectors to house alarm:
If I'm not mistaken, an LED on the smoke alarm will illuminate when there is an alarm event. Perhaps you could just glue a photodetector over it to detect when an alarm event occurs? In essence, you'd be making a kind of optoisolator, but without making any changes to any of the smoke alarm elecctronics.
I think it is not achievable due to 2 leds side by side and their behavior. Green is on when AC is live and Red one flashes once every 45 seconds when all is ok and constantly flashes when it is the sensor that triggered sirens very fast and if i remember correctly others flash slower like once a second.
I think trying sound detector would be best as it is placed in utility room where doors are normally closed and it is in the center of the house so no external noise should trigger it (apart from fans on poe switch) if i set it correctly. Just need to order one and wait for it to arrive. Do you think below would be suitable for me, I would just extend microphone cable?
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/122050147713?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1c6ac17581:g:e2QAAOSwFfhXjeFN&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSxXDXcCydCuSj2Tq2S%252F3GnlFoJ%252F%252Fg4j6zPtqbaczZyjxYp6hnurvYmPrjeWDDx9Hj6YC7SEXHV9Y3yT0WWwQ3Kcc8Ak79fTVrvlzB4r5TStd6WfP6r5HYdmzKyo49hRC49lv5vpBpNC7TkTpyE8jbQivSkO3T85XUBnAQOBoTRC7tkLe8So%252BQoL0pS7W5SP6geJL%252FlaY0g6qIAhD76dHnnU%252BlIqQM%252FYXr4Wrsqvf4y6Y8fFMpBMqItyDAQj8nYRpAQsndywQZgHO1v30u%252FG1WU7F2Mmv0D%252FqDb84U%252BKNe1VPNpTL6QJP6ioD1z%252FQjnlo4C%252BdRWai66H140EkemOQ39qelshu01nHodtanaT1Ig7as39NbxZqFs9JuDIeghLNMv11L0oOXGnfGtoJEZoNMQ9EYt0L8TGQOas4ZvOUY2Ce94WnXUKoM5NcWkrc%252B89l1Z%252Fll6Gnzl3ms%252FDqwXfIXQzf93IPHW4NmUpzv6OdFoL4UQ%252FefjUzmW7Wg3o2QvGWiOJJ6MVIlF7u3h9jm1FEfRThZjL4BhfCRKK6NRFMwVvHsNhHod5TO382s1biOIVhPyGaLToToGUDebTMSBriCJ%252FuT6Qa%252FmkZY5O1FgmWrQJneypF2I3k6GARyXVaCWwAQK4ff%252FQPFRtvdfwOMcdE5JJUDxGoDDFxvdH%252B59KZ3CtVugsx9LzNW3ec55gxOK2lkkyz23G7EtVzNv%252BJpAawhoZTRpqr17A71Q9UBZOQ7utVUKI2ba%252F4OlXzNb0ej0GXp3Iuh%252FUh2zFSxt355ekfmqu7Ahb8FPJmMhT%252FrIsAZYlZ4h29y7Gs11KvhI6PSu9eaD%252FtPLTF2NPX6NNx2dEZhHQ%253D%253D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524 -
That one looks very different from the model BRK sells in the US.
Also, BRK in the US sells a model with an "escape light" that might be adapted to be an opto-isolator, like I described above, without changing any of its circuitry.
Really though, at the end of the day, whatever works for you and your building codes, in whatever jurisdiction you're in.
Good luck!
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By the way, I get the impression that BRK and First Alert products are the same, but just branded differently. Of course, you would want to confirm that with the manufacturer, but if true, then perhaps knowing that would expand the range of products that you can choose from:
https://support.firstalert.com/s/article/First-Alert-and-BRK-Brands#:~:text=The same parent company (Newell,under%20the%20First%20Alert%20brand.I'm probably going to be upgrading my smoke detectors to the talking kind, because my experience with the cheap units is that it's very hard to quickly identify and disarm the one which triggered when you have a dozen interconnected sirens all blaring at the same time. I would have been happy with a bright blue LED or something to do that quick identification, but nooooooo, that would have made too much sense. The one question I'm not sure about is: is it even possible to hear what the alarm is saying when it's simultaneously blasting its siren at 85db? So, something I need to look into.
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By the way, I get the impression that BRK and First Alert products are the same, but just branded differently. Of course, you would want to confirm that with the manufacturer, but if true, then perhaps knowing that would expand the range of products that you can choose from:
https://support.firstalert.com/s/article/First-Alert-and-BRK-Brands#:~:text=The same parent company (Newell,under%20the%20First%20Alert%20brand.I'm probably going to be upgrading my smoke detectors to the talking kind, because my experience with the cheap units is that it's very hard to quickly identify and disarm the one which triggered when you have a dozen interconnected sirens all blaring at the same time. I would have been happy with a bright blue LED or something to do that quick identification, but nooooooo, that would have made too much sense. The one question I'm not sure about is: is it even possible to hear what the alarm is saying when it's simultaneously blasting its siren at 85db? So, something I need to look into.
@NeverDie
Thank you for your information about First alert. I looked online and they are selling off their stock in Europe and not manufacturing anything new. Also I didn't find one that is smoke detector only, only a mix of co and smoke detectors. I think i will have to wait and replace all of them when it is time but in the mean time I just would like to setup notification through sound detect circuit. I ordered one to try from china but it will take a while, many items I ordered previously haven't arrived so fingers crossed.I think manufacturers focus only on having alarm panel that they report to in enterprise and think that house owners do not mind checking all sensors.
I read a bit on "First Alert SA511CN2-3ST Interconnected Wireless Smoke Alarm with Voice & Location" and they list within features "When one detector sounds, the other alarms sound as well, alerting you to a fire in the basement even if you are in the attic."
Most likely all sirens beep and sound out of sync so it is a matter of distance between sensors and playback volume of the location. I saw one old video on youtube about setting up one and defining zone of the sensor, they do not play siren noise and voice of location at the same time, 3 beeps, pause, 3 beeps and zone location.
I was reading on some forums in the past that frequent false alarms are caused by bad location and/or wrong sensor type. -
From one of the amazon reviews, 'Only the one initiating the alarm speaks the programmed room name. The other interconnected units do not announce the room name; they only sound the alarm. It seems dumb, but I replaced 11 old units in my house with this design, and when one goes off, I have to run around the house listening for the unit speaking its room name to find the one that initiated the alarm.
By Green Gofer on November 28, 2020"
Well, if that's the case, it doesn't seem like a great design at all. A bright LED on the triggered alarm would seem to work just as well for identifying the triggered alarm if what the reviewer says about the voice located alarms is true.Anyhow, I just noticed that you can buy adapter cables which allow Kiddie alarms to be plugged into a BRK sytem: https://www.firstalertstore.com/store/products/brk-kidde-smoke-alarm-adapter-plug-adk-12.htm
I may look into this, because in general I like the Kiddie alarms slightly better than the BRK alarms. -
From one of the amazon reviews, 'Only the one initiating the alarm speaks the programmed room name. The other interconnected units do not announce the room name; they only sound the alarm. It seems dumb, but I replaced 11 old units in my house with this design, and when one goes off, I have to run around the house listening for the unit speaking its room name to find the one that initiated the alarm.
By Green Gofer on November 28, 2020"
Well, if that's the case, it doesn't seem like a great design at all. A bright LED on the triggered alarm would seem to work just as well for identifying the triggered alarm if what the reviewer says about the voice located alarms is true.Anyhow, I just noticed that you can buy adapter cables which allow Kiddie alarms to be plugged into a BRK sytem: https://www.firstalertstore.com/store/products/brk-kidde-smoke-alarm-adapter-plug-adk-12.htm
I may look into this, because in general I like the Kiddie alarms slightly better than the BRK alarms.@NeverDie
Could it be that person on amazon didn't sync/link all devices together as part of the setup process? One step is to define the zone but the other is to link them together as per video on their website start at 1:16
https://youtu.be/7jun46ZaSmkThank you for finding adapters, I will have it documented in case one sensor goes down and not wanting to replace all BRK sensors.
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Good point. If the hardwired variant works the way the amazon reviewer says it does, then it would make no sense it would be rather silly. I'll look into it. What' clear is that the wireless voice location alarms do report the source of the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqNs1dysvOw -
I contacted First Alert technical support regarding SC7010BV, which is the hardwired voice location alarm, and to my surprise, they confirmed that the location is only announced on the initiating alarm, not on all the ones connected to it. This despite the fact that their actual product literature seems to imply otherwise. In fact, I read quite a few more amazon reviews for the SC7010BV-6, which is the six pack of the same version, and many of those reviews expressed great disappointment over this particular gotcha.
This is confirmed by yet another amazon review: "I jut talked to First Alert. Although their advertisement clearly tells me that the location of the fire or CO is announced at each location of a unit: "you are alerted of the danger and where it originates throughout your house" and "tells you where … the threat is among up to 11 pre-programmed locations in your home", Fist Alert says it only announces location at the originating unit. The manual is even clearer stating that "all other installed" units give location. Very, very disappointed and feeling misled. see less
By Kindle Customer on January 9, 2020"I share the disappointment, because I was nearly ready to buy some. It' surprisingly hard to find a consumer friendly hardwired smoke alarm at a reasonable price!
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I contacted First Alert technical support regarding SC7010BV, which is the hardwired voice location alarm, and to my surprise, they confirmed that the location is only announced on the initiating alarm, not on all the ones connected to it. This despite the fact that their actual product literature seems to imply otherwise. In fact, I read quite a few more amazon reviews for the SC7010BV-6, which is the six pack of the same version, and many of those reviews expressed great disappointment over this particular gotcha.
This is confirmed by yet another amazon review: "I jut talked to First Alert. Although their advertisement clearly tells me that the location of the fire or CO is announced at each location of a unit: "you are alerted of the danger and where it originates throughout your house" and "tells you where … the threat is among up to 11 pre-programmed locations in your home", Fist Alert says it only announces location at the originating unit. The manual is even clearer stating that "all other installed" units give location. Very, very disappointed and feeling misled. see less
By Kindle Customer on January 9, 2020"I share the disappointment, because I was nearly ready to buy some. It' surprisingly hard to find a consumer friendly hardwired smoke alarm at a reasonable price!
@NeverDie
That is very disappointing and very good that you didn't buy it. Why did they even add this feature, additional setup step with no advantage.
So wireless is better option than wired but if you have wires in your house interlinking the units why not use them, wired connection is more reliable than wireless, at least it used to be back in the days with wifi networks. But i am not an engineer and there could be some reasons why they did it. -
I have to check local code, but I may switch to wireless. You can get wireless smoke alarms with a 10 year battery life, which is the recommended life of an alarm sensor, so I think the requirement for AC power may be effectively obsolete because of technical innovation. Also, I kinda like this type of device:
https://www.amazon.com/X-Sense-Controller-RC01-Replaceable-Interconnected/dp/B08MSQWC3B/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=interconnected+x-sense&qid=1631226641&s=hi&sr=1-5You press it once to turn off all of the alarms except for the initiating alarm. That way you can more quickly identify the initiating alarm. Then you can press it again to "snooze" the initiating alarm. No need to get on a ladder.
The BRK alarms are fine.... until they go off. We've had numerous false alarms. I think I'm ready to switch to something better.
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I have to check local code, but I may switch to wireless. You can get wireless smoke alarms with a 10 year battery life, which is the recommended life of an alarm sensor, so I think the requirement for AC power may be effectively obsolete because of technical innovation. Also, I kinda like this type of device:
https://www.amazon.com/X-Sense-Controller-RC01-Replaceable-Interconnected/dp/B08MSQWC3B/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=interconnected+x-sense&qid=1631226641&s=hi&sr=1-5You press it once to turn off all of the alarms except for the initiating alarm. That way you can more quickly identify the initiating alarm. Then you can press it again to "snooze" the initiating alarm. No need to get on a ladder.
The BRK alarms are fine.... until they go off. We've had numerous false alarms. I think I'm ready to switch to something better.
@NeverDie
Everything is now being driven by batteries, unfortunately lithium batteries is just another thing that can create fire, that is just my association with lithium batteries after watching too many liveleak videos.
I think the X-Sense comes with "3 V CR123A lithium battery" and they say should last for 5 years. Below is example of worst case scenario and doesn't look too bad compared to phone batteries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG_UuPmLO1c
Having smoke detector on battery for 5-10 years is good way of doing it as it allows you to place sensor anywhere you want and not to depend on AC wiring.
The only thing to check if it is possible to link more than 1 remote control, 1 for each floor/location. Possibly as you would need to get to remote first before going to check originating sensor.
According to below website it is best to use a combination of ionization and photoelectric sensors but not sure if any have 2, I looked on a few and only photoelectric was listed.
https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Staying-safe/Safety-equipment/Smoke-alarms/Ionization-vs-photoelectric
X-sense also has smart wifi smoke detector, I assume it still operates internally between other smoke sensors over RF 868 or 915MHZ and uses 2.4GHZ wifi network and internet connection to get to their servers and notify you on the phone. If it would depend on wifi alone power loss to Access Point would cause communication breakdown between the sensors.
Let me know which one you will go for and your findings. -
Unfortunately, it appears that the x-sense smokes I referenced may not be adequately tested:
https://www.firemarshals.org/resources/Documents/NASFM Documents/NASFM News Release on Non UL 217 Listed Alarms 6 8 2016.pdfThere don't seem to be many good choices available. It might be best to wait a few years and see if anything better comes onto the market.
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Unfortunately, it appears that the x-sense smokes I referenced may not be adequately tested:
https://www.firemarshals.org/resources/Documents/NASFM Documents/NASFM News Release on Non UL 217 Listed Alarms 6 8 2016.pdfThere don't seem to be many good choices available. It might be best to wait a few years and see if anything better comes onto the market.
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@NeverDie
Everything is now being driven by batteries, unfortunately lithium batteries is just another thing that can create fire, that is just my association with lithium batteries after watching too many liveleak videos.
I think the X-Sense comes with "3 V CR123A lithium battery" and they say should last for 5 years. Below is example of worst case scenario and doesn't look too bad compared to phone batteries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG_UuPmLO1c
Having smoke detector on battery for 5-10 years is good way of doing it as it allows you to place sensor anywhere you want and not to depend on AC wiring.
The only thing to check if it is possible to link more than 1 remote control, 1 for each floor/location. Possibly as you would need to get to remote first before going to check originating sensor.
According to below website it is best to use a combination of ionization and photoelectric sensors but not sure if any have 2, I looked on a few and only photoelectric was listed.
https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Staying-safe/Safety-equipment/Smoke-alarms/Ionization-vs-photoelectric
X-sense also has smart wifi smoke detector, I assume it still operates internally between other smoke sensors over RF 868 or 915MHZ and uses 2.4GHZ wifi network and internet connection to get to their servers and notify you on the phone. If it would depend on wifi alone power loss to Access Point would cause communication breakdown between the sensors.
Let me know which one you will go for and your findings.@vecnar said in Connecting smoke detectors to house alarm:
@NeverDie
Everything is now being driven by batteries, unfortunately lithium batteries is just another thing that can create fire, that is just my association with lithium batteries after watching too many liveleak videos.
I think the X-Sense comes with "3 V CR123A lithium battery" and they say should last for 5 years. Below is example of worst case scenario and doesn't look too bad compared to phone batteries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG_UuPmLO1cInteresting find. I haven't heard of any actual non-abused lithium primary cells doing that in real life though. Have you? It has me wondering now. There's no dendrites that I know of like there are with rechargeable lithium batteries, which is the main culprit in those disasters.
Having smoke detector on battery for 5-10 years is good way of doing it as it allows you to place sensor anywhere you want and not to depend on AC wiring.
The only thing to check if it is possible to link more than 1 remote control, 1 for each floor/location. Possibly as you would need to get to remote first before going to check originating sensor.
According to below website it is best to use a combination of ionization and photoelectric sensors but not sure if any have 2, I looked on a few and only photoelectric was listed.
https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Staying-safe/Safety-equipment/Smoke-alarms/Ionization-vs-photoelectric
X-sense also has smart wifi smoke detector, I assume it still operates internally between other smoke sensors over RF 868 or 915MHZ and uses 2.4GHZ wifi network and internet connection to get to their servers and notify you on the phone. If it would depend on wifi alone power loss to Access Point would cause communication breakdown between the sensors.
Let me know which one you will go for and your findings.I suppose the argument in favor of hardwired smoke alarms is that people are lazy and may not replace batteries, or might remove the batteries altogether if they were battery powered to avoid the chirping but then remount the smoke alarm (for aesthetic reasons) and then forget about it. However, as long as one doesn't do that, I think an argument can be made that battery powered smokes are actually safer because they're immune to power surges that might damage them if they were wired to mains. If that were to occur, when would it be discovered? During a weekly test? Well, if laziness is a concern, I don't think doing a weekly test is very likely. In fact, I doubt if more than a tiny minority of people do a weekly smoke alarm test, and I'm not at all sure how thorough those tests really are in terms of discovering failure modes.
So, out of the battery powered smoke alarms, the BRK battery powered wireless interconnected smoke alarm with voice location does seem to work as expected, even if the hardwired ones don't. The Nest Protect looks even better, but the price is more than 2x as much. If I could convince myself that the Nest Protect actually did a good job of self testing itself (as it claims to), then I probably would pay up for that. So far, though, all the reviews I've seen have been far too superficial to address that question other than to say something like "It tests itself 400 times a day" or some such. Yeah, but what does that really mean? How thorough is the test, and is it really good enough? It might just be marketing puffery.
Neither of them work with a relay that I'm aware of. However, there is a Ring Listener that listens for a smoke alarm going off. It has the virtue of being rather inexpensive:
I'm not sure if there are other listeners available. I suspect so, but I haven't looked. It might save the bother of DIYing a custom solution. Alternatively, the Nest probably sends a text to your phone in the event of a smoke detection, and that could perhaps be used to activate a separate home alarm through ITTT or similar. Maybe it can trigger something less indirect in the event of a smoke detection? If so, if it could avoid needing to DIY a solution, perhaps that might tilt the decision in favor of a Nest. However, I'd rather a solution didn't blithely assume that internet connectivity is working. Something more direct would certainly be preferable.
P.S. BRK has OneLink, but the reviews on amazon, including nearly all recent reviews, have made it look like a terrible choice--far worse than I would have imagined, especially given its high price. For that reason, I wouldn't consider a OneLink until well after the issues raised are known to be fixed. For the price, people should be getting top quality, and it doesn't read like they are. Nearly all the most recent reviews are pretty consistently extremely negative and in stark contrast to the amazon reviews of the second generation Nest Protect, which has been on the market for quite some time now.
P.P.S. This article refers to a number of other alarm listeners:https://www.cnet.com/home/smart-home/devices-to-help-your-smart-home-guard-against-fire/ The article is from 2016, though, and I haven't confirmed whether all of those products are still on the market or not. I did check on Halo, and they went out of business in 2018. In contrast, the Roost Battery thing actually sounds kind of interesting: https://getroost.com/sensors/ [But is it even still available? Their webstore says it's sold out] Some ebay sellers have it, but at a much higher price. And if it hinges on using a special battery.....I don't know that I'd want to be chained to that except as maybe a short-term stopgap. ]
There's probably somethig out there that I haven't seen that might do the job. Overall, it seems like a strangely stagnant market filled with products that aren't user friendly. I presume the stranglehold that BRK and Kidde have on the American market has probably stifled innovation, at least as far as what's available here that has regulatory approval. I'd be surprised if Europe doesn't have better options than we do here in the US.
