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  3. How is this receiver able to continuously Rx but consume only 90ua?

How is this receiver able to continuously Rx but consume only 90ua?

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  • tbowmoT Offline
    tbowmoT Offline
    tbowmo
    Admin
    wrote on last edited by
    #10

    @mfalkvidd @NeverDie

    The AS3930 is designed to be used with inductive coupled antennas, as in RF-ID devices, where it can feed on the energy generated in the magnetic loop..

    It's stated on page 12 in the datasheet (detailed description)

    The AS3930 is capable of detecting the presence of an inductive coupled carrier and extract the envelope of the ON-OFF-Keying (OOK) modulated carrier

    So unless you want to make a gigantic coil, covering the whole house, it's not usable for waking up low power (my)sensors devices.

    NeverDieN SurgeTransientS 2 Replies Last reply
    2
    • tbowmoT tbowmo

      @mfalkvidd @NeverDie

      The AS3930 is designed to be used with inductive coupled antennas, as in RF-ID devices, where it can feed on the energy generated in the magnetic loop..

      It's stated on page 12 in the datasheet (detailed description)

      The AS3930 is capable of detecting the presence of an inductive coupled carrier and extract the envelope of the ON-OFF-Keying (OOK) modulated carrier

      So unless you want to make a gigantic coil, covering the whole house, it's not usable for waking up low power (my)sensors devices.

      NeverDieN Offline
      NeverDieN Offline
      NeverDie
      Hero Member
      wrote on last edited by NeverDie
      #11

      @tbowmo Good catch! That removes it from consideration, at least for me.

      The nRF52810 may be "good enough," using an average 27 microamps as a Bluetooth Tile receiver: https://www.nordicsemi.com/News/2019/10/Tile-employs-nRF52810-to-provide-ultra-low-power-connectivity

      Here's my math:
      Assume 0.235amp-hour useable capacity for a CR2032. The article says it lasts 1 year. Then 0.235/365/24=27ua

      It has me curious now as to just how frequently the new Tile goes into Rx mode. If it's 10 times a second, then that would be ideal (at least the potential for no perceptable lag). I'd be curious as to whether it uses synchronized clocks to cut down on the Tx window. If not, it might be rather laggy if the transmitter is shooting out packets blindly but not continuously during a tile-finding sequence. i.e. it might be good enough for a Tile, but it would exclude things that need more responsiveness (like, say, remote controlling a toy).

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • tbowmoT tbowmo

        @mfalkvidd @NeverDie

        The AS3930 is designed to be used with inductive coupled antennas, as in RF-ID devices, where it can feed on the energy generated in the magnetic loop..

        It's stated on page 12 in the datasheet (detailed description)

        The AS3930 is capable of detecting the presence of an inductive coupled carrier and extract the envelope of the ON-OFF-Keying (OOK) modulated carrier

        So unless you want to make a gigantic coil, covering the whole house, it's not usable for waking up low power (my)sensors devices.

        SurgeTransientS Offline
        SurgeTransientS Offline
        SurgeTransient
        wrote on last edited by
        #12

        @tbowmo True, but I found college projects that modulate the signal the AS3930 needs with a higher frequency. link text

        mfalkviddM 1 Reply Last reply
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        • SurgeTransientS SurgeTransient

          @tbowmo True, but I found college projects that modulate the signal the AS3930 needs with a higher frequency. link text

          mfalkviddM Offline
          mfalkviddM Offline
          mfalkvidd
          Mod
          wrote on last edited by
          #13

          @surgetransient cool. That’s from my home town :)

          Abstract:

          The proposed system has a current consumption of 42.74μA including the current consumption of the components deployed in the demo board. In an ideal case, wake-up radio can be constructed without using AS3933 demo board by using only AS3933 IC that gives current consumption of 2.8μA. The developed prototype has a sensitivity of -40 dBm which resulted in a wake-up distance of 20 meters at an output power of -5 dBm from the transmitting antenna.

          NeverDieN 1 Reply Last reply
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          • mfalkviddM mfalkvidd

            @surgetransient cool. That’s from my home town :)

            Abstract:

            The proposed system has a current consumption of 42.74μA including the current consumption of the components deployed in the demo board. In an ideal case, wake-up radio can be constructed without using AS3933 demo board by using only AS3933 IC that gives current consumption of 2.8μA. The developed prototype has a sensitivity of -40 dBm which resulted in a wake-up distance of 20 meters at an output power of -5 dBm from the transmitting antenna.

            NeverDieN Offline
            NeverDieN Offline
            NeverDie
            Hero Member
            wrote on last edited by NeverDie
            #14

            @mfalkvidd Something doesn't make sense here. If the Rx current consumption is a mere 2.8uA, then why does the rest of his system add up to 42.7uA? At least on its face, that sounds much less good than the "duty-cycled" systems, like the nRF52, that he claims his system is better than. Unless maybe it's just a hacked together POC system. But then his masters thesis is just proving that a commerical chip isn't lying when it says its current consumption is 2.8uA.

            I guess I'll have to read the thesis to find out why, but his summary should have addressed this rather glaring issue with at least a sentence or two.

            mfalkviddM 1 Reply Last reply
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            • NeverDieN NeverDie

              @mfalkvidd Something doesn't make sense here. If the Rx current consumption is a mere 2.8uA, then why does the rest of his system add up to 42.7uA? At least on its face, that sounds much less good than the "duty-cycled" systems, like the nRF52, that he claims his system is better than. Unless maybe it's just a hacked together POC system. But then his masters thesis is just proving that a commerical chip isn't lying when it says its current consumption is 2.8uA.

              I guess I'll have to read the thesis to find out why, but his summary should have addressed this rather glaring issue with at least a sentence or two.

              mfalkviddM Offline
              mfalkviddM Offline
              mfalkvidd
              Mod
              wrote on last edited by
              #15

              @neverdie sorry, that was only a section of the abstract (the most interesting part imho)

              NeverDieN 1 Reply Last reply
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              • mfalkviddM mfalkvidd

                @neverdie sorry, that was only a section of the abstract (the most interesting part imho)

                NeverDieN Offline
                NeverDieN Offline
                NeverDie
                Hero Member
                wrote on last edited by NeverDie
                #16

                @mfalkvidd Yes, I agree you quoted the most interesting passage of the abstract. Re-reading it, I'm guessing he's saying that the system consumption is high because of inefficient components on the demo board, but that a properly developed system would be much closer to the 2.8uA.

                If such a system could also be duty cycled, just imagine how low the average Rx current would be. I look forward to seeing whether he analyzes that in his thesis or not. Or, maybe it already is being duty cycled in addition to using the low current receiver. The abstract seems to imply it's not duty cycled, but it's worded a bit too hazily to be sure.

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                • NeverDieN Offline
                  NeverDieN Offline
                  NeverDie
                  Hero Member
                  wrote on last edited by NeverDie
                  #17

                  As near as I can tell, it does receive continuously, and the reason why the current draw is so low is that it works essentially like a crystal radio. Instead of your ear listening to an earpiece, the AS3933 looks for a signal pattern that you program into it, and that is what consumes the 2.8ua of current. If it finds a match, it issues a wake-up.

                  Therefore, answering my own question, it would appear that AS3933 could be duty cycled to use even less current.

                  Range is a bit unclear, but looks encouraging. Unfortunately, the guy who wrote the thesis couldn't be bothered to do any range tests outside of just his lab, so he only tested low transmission powers at fairly short range. Indeed, Table 4 contains a total of only 3 such measurements, one at -10dbm and two at -5dbm. He wrote that he had planned to test over a wider range (from -10dbm to +10dbm), but he literally stopped testing when the range would have gone beyond the door of his lab.

                  0_1576001631263_range.png

                  I'd be interested in giving it a try. The official demo boaard is $250 though. Anyone know of a cheaper alternative for giving AS3933 or AS3932 a test-drive?

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                  • mfalkviddM Offline
                    mfalkviddM Offline
                    mfalkvidd
                    Mod
                    wrote on last edited by mfalkvidd
                    #18

                    I haven't read this myself, but it looks interesting if someone has access to an active ieee subscription: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8890666/

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                    • NeverDieN Offline
                      NeverDieN Offline
                      NeverDie
                      Hero Member
                      wrote on last edited by NeverDie
                      #19

                      A different link to the same thesis as previoiusly where he claims a wake-up distance of 20 meters: https://hh.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1187369/FULLTEXT02.pdf

                      Well, it looks not difficult to construct. The AS3933 chips are available for around $1.30 on aliexpress, so cheaper than nRF5x chips. Perhaps cheapest of all would be be a tightly controlled nRF24L01, but it would surely draw more current listening than an AS3933.

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