NRF24L01+PA+LNA msg send failure

mortommy

I had similar issues. I had a serial GW with a NRF24L01+PA+LNA and the option MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL to HIGH and worked for more than one year; than I decided to convert it to an Ethernet GW and I had many failure in sending messages. When I was out of ideas (after checking connection wiring and power issues, adding capacitor, making the ugly shield fix) I decided to play with the MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL, and it started to work again with the value MIN.

user2684

Thank you both, I'll try to give RF24_PA_MIN another try since also in my case happened to work (even if for just a couple of times) with this setting (default if not set is RF24_PA_MAX).

user2684

I run a few other tests with MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL always set to RF24_PA_MIN and the results are...very random which is the worst scenario :-/
Basic setup with a serial gateway with NRF24L01+PA+LNA and simple sensor with NRF24L01. Out of 15 reboot of both of them, a couple of times the gw was able to send the message but even in this case apparently with some failures in between:

0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:BC
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:FPAR REQ,ID=100
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:CKU:OK,FCTRL
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:GWL OK
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:SEND,0-0-100-100,s=255,c=3,t=8,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:0
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=255,c=3,t=24,pt=1,l=1,sg=0:1
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:PINGED,ID=100,HP=1
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:SEND,0-0-100-100,s=255,c=3,t=25,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=OK:1
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=255,c=3,t=15,pt=6,l=2,sg=0:0100
0;255;3;0;9;!TSF:MSG:SEND,0-0-100-100,s=255,c=3,t=15,pt=6,l=2,sg=0,ft=0,st=NACK:0100
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=255,c=0,t=17,pt=0,l=5,sg=0:2.1.1
100;255;0;0;17;2.1.1
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=255,c=3,t=6,pt=1,l=1,sg=0:0
100;255;3;0;6;0
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=255,c=3,t=11,pt=0,l=19,sg=0:NodeManagerTemplate
100;255;3;0;11;NodeManagerTemplate
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=255,c=3,t=12,pt=0,l=3,sg=0:1.2
100;255;3;0;12;1.2
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=200,c=0,t=23,pt=0,l=0,sg=0:
100;200;0;0;23;
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=201,c=0,t=30,pt=0,l=0,sg=0:
100;201;0;0;30;
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=255,c=3,t=0,pt=1,l=1,sg=0:90
100;255;3;0;0;90
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-0,s=255,c=3,t=26,pt=1,l=1,sg=0:2
0;255;3;0;9;!TSF:MSG:SEND,0-0-100-100,s=255,c=3,t=27,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=NACK:1

I've tried again by combining external power, moving the sensor closer, changing capacitor but looks like those do not have an influence (positive or negative) with my test.
Excluding a hardware failure (since sometimes it works and is consistent with 3 different radios), I guess has still something to do with the lack of power. I'd probably move to RFM69 or add a NRF24L01 repeater if range becomes an issue unless I'm missing something else... Thanks!

alexsh1

@user2684 I have had very similar issues to yours with my Arduino Mega Ethernet GW with nrf24l01+ lna+pa. It turned out the 5V to 3.3V regulator was at fault. nrf24l01+ lna+pa is using more current during peak and hence require a very stable power. I took me months to figure out the problem as AMS1117 was intermittent. As soon as I re-soldered a new one, the RF transmission stabilised. No more lost nodes and "FAIL" in the log.

Appreciated you have checked it all many times, but there is no magic. Either this is a power issue or just try a different transmitter.

user2684

Thanks @alexsh1, your message suggested to me also to try powering the radio with 3 AA batteries and a AMS1117 instead of a direct connection to 2 AA batteries but I couldn't appreciate any positive change. Thanks all for your support, I'll put the NRF24L01+PA+LNA aside for now and just use NRF24L01 for the short range and RFM69 for a longer range.

alexsh1

@user2684 I'm powering the GW with a decent 5V PSU (5V 2A) and then only for nrfl01+ LNA+PA i reduce 5V through AMS1117 to a stable 3.3V.
One last time, please try this and see if there are any changes

I have never heard nrf24l01+ LNA+PA being powered with batteries. Any reason for this?

user2684

Oh sorry, I used the batteries just because for quickest to test but I understand this may impact the test iselft, sorry for that. I've tested the setup you recommended, 5V 2A feeding the AMS1117, powering the nrfl01+ LNA+PA. Same situation, I see the READ but fails on SEND :-/

alexsh1

@user2684 what is it you are trying to send?
OK, if you bring the sensor closer to the GW any difference?

user2684

Closer to one meter and then away 7-8 meters, I haven't notice any difference even after rebooting 2-3 times both the devices

gohan

@user2684 do you still use a capacitor in radio, right?

alexsh1

@user2684 in this case, it does not sound like RF problem to me. If you touch antenna or the antenna wire with your fingers, no improvement?

Did you try a different nrf24l01+ LNA+PA?

Grubstake

@user2684 Have you swapped in a regular non-LNA-PA nrf radio to confirm everything else (software, hardware) is working fine? In other words absolutely every single solitary thing identical except the board.

These particular boards appear to be very low quality, probably are made with reject components, etc, none of the four I bought consume the same current.

But 2 of the four work OK at 100 yards thru walls with zero fussing around with power settings, capacitors, tinfoil hat, antennas, etc. Oh, and this is with the board powered by the 3v output on a cheap Uno clone (no cap).

There is no question in my mind that by far the most likely culprit is a crappy board, and unless you are comparing results side by side with a known good board and configuration you are doomed to perpetual tinkering. I gave up on these and have been shopping for much more expensive correctly built radios instead.

(But surprisingly some of the cheap $2 non-LNA-PA radios seem to work nearly as well... with little unit-to-unit variation.)

This is not voodoo, it's simple electronics. Crappy hardware quality is a giant waste of time.

Tim

user2684

So to respond to everybody, yes I'm using the capacitor between vcc and gnd of the radio (on every reboot I change a few of them going up to 100uF), I've tried the three nrf24l01+ LNA+PA that I have, I've played with the antenna all without luck.

0;255;3;0;9;TSM:INIT
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:WUR:MS=0
0;255;3;0;9;TSM:INIT:TSP OK
0;255;3;0;9;TSM:INIT:GW MODE
0;255;3;0;9;TSM:READY:ID=0,PAR=0,DIS=0
0;255;3;0;9;MCO:REG:NOT NEEDED
0;255;3;0;14;Gateway startup complete.
0;255;0;0;18;2.1.1
0;255;3;0;9;MCO:BGN:STP
0;255;3;0;9;MCO:BGN:INIT OK,TSP=1
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-255,s=255,c=3,t=7,pt=0,l=0,sg=0:
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:BC
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:FPAR REQ,ID=100
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:CKU:OK,FCTRL
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:GWL OK
0;255;3;0;9;!TSF:MSG:SEND,0-0-100-100,s=255,c=3,t=8,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=NACK:0
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-255,s=255,c=3,t=7,pt=0,l=0,sg=0:
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:BC
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:FPAR REQ,ID=100
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:CKU:OK,FCTRL
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:GWL OK
0;255;3;0;9;!TSF:MSG:SEND,0-0-100-100,s=255,c=3,t=8,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=NACK:0
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-255,s=255,c=3,t=7,pt=0,l=0,sg=0:
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:BC
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:FPAR REQ,ID=100
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:CKU:OK,FCTRL
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:GWL OK
0;255;3;0;9;!TSF:MSG:SEND,0-0-100-100,s=255,c=3,t=8,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=NACK:0
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:READ,100-100-255,s=255,c=3,t=7,pt=0,l=0,sg=0:
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:BC
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:FPAR REQ,ID=100
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:CKU:OK,FCTRL
0;255;3;0;9;TSF:MSG:GWL OK
0;255;3;0;9;!TSF:MSG:SEND,0-0-100-100,s=255,c=3,t=8,pt=1,l=1,sg=0,ft=0,st=NACK:0

To your point @Grubstake every time I connect back a standard nrf24l01 everything works just fine. I've just realized though I've bought the three boards from the same aliexpress vendor even if in different times. Maybe they are all coming from the same crappy stock. Just out of curiosity I may buy another one from a different vendor...

alexsh1

@Grubstake @user2684 I think Tim has got a point here. This is what frastrates me about these modules - you spend a lot of time tinkering just due to a poor hardware and/or a combination of other things.

@user2684 can please post a photo of your nrf24l01+ lna+pa?

gohan

there are some posts about tested NRF24 PA modules, this one was one of them
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-L24L01-D03-1000-Meters-Distance-NRF24L01-P-LNA-Wireless-Module-with-Antenna/32335491233.html

Grubstake

@user2684 Here are the ones I thought were great, but ended up not so much (2 of 4 acceptable). Board build quality initially looked very good. On the second order one had a bizarre 1/2" untrimmed edge on the PC board. It worked, though. One of the initial ones failed after a few weeks. One of the second batch unusable out of the package. I bought them from seller Makerfocus at Amazon: here

alexsh1

@Grubstake This is the one I'm using now. Works really great, but...I have learnt the hard way that the may board, but different batch may perform differently

user2684

@Grubstake mine looks like those in the picture you have just posted. Well, if you got 2 out of 4 working, I should not be that surprised I've had so many issues so far :-)
I will also try ordering those @gohan suggested, just to evaluate all the options and report back

bilbolodz

@user2684 I've exactly the same problem.
I've noticed that putting #define MY_NODE_ID X (not AUTO) makes situation better (a little).
I've also played with MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL settings and "MAX" is NOT working for me (MIN, LOW, HIGH are fine but without AUTO id number).
I've plan to move GW to arduinoMega and ethernet but a few post above there is a report that "it's also not working!"......
Does really (USB) serial gateway the only way for RPI????

gohan

I had both Arduino and rpi as gateways working fine, most often the problem is the radio or power supplied to it

NRF24L01+PA+LNA msg send failure

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