Would You Like Support For ESP8266 'Nodes'?
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I understand limited resources all too well, I guess because ESP nodes was something I started chasing a couple years ago when the chip first became available, other forum users requesting the same stood out to me and the story was always the same use MQTT and more recently go try something else (which I read as 'Go Away!!'). A few months ago I attended a meeting at computer club in a different state and the topic of discussion was 'how can we make MySensors nodes without adding a radio'. However, looking back now, I realise I never made 'feature request' simply because I perceived a lack of interest when I saw others being told no.. no.. no.., I now wonder how many others gave up without asking formally? Of cause I don't know what makes 'enough interest' and I agree, there has to be sufficient demand.
As mentioned in another post, I seriously looked into the code with the view of writing it myself, but I could see the time needed to understand the 'internal layout and concepts' sufficiently, to implement a new transport without breaking any existing code, would be far greater than the time to write the actual routines required, and just too much for me to take on. I'm really passionate about MySensors and that's why it bothers me to hear others frustrated with it and realising I may have to start over with a different solution or (more likely) start from scratch and 'grow' my own node software to get what I need.
This afternoon I came up with an idea how I might be able to achieve what I want, without having to modify the core code. I'll be looking further into that tomorrow and will get back to you if I still think my idea is possible.
Regards,
Paul
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I understand limited resources all too well, I guess because ESP nodes was something I started chasing a couple years ago when the chip first became available, other forum users requesting the same stood out to me and the story was always the same use MQTT and more recently go try something else (which I read as 'Go Away!!'). A few months ago I attended a meeting at computer club in a different state and the topic of discussion was 'how can we make MySensors nodes without adding a radio'. However, looking back now, I realise I never made 'feature request' simply because I perceived a lack of interest when I saw others being told no.. no.. no.., I now wonder how many others gave up without asking formally? Of cause I don't know what makes 'enough interest' and I agree, there has to be sufficient demand.
As mentioned in another post, I seriously looked into the code with the view of writing it myself, but I could see the time needed to understand the 'internal layout and concepts' sufficiently, to implement a new transport without breaking any existing code, would be far greater than the time to write the actual routines required, and just too much for me to take on. I'm really passionate about MySensors and that's why it bothers me to hear others frustrated with it and realising I may have to start over with a different solution or (more likely) start from scratch and 'grow' my own node software to get what I need.
This afternoon I came up with an idea how I might be able to achieve what I want, without having to modify the core code. I'll be looking further into that tomorrow and will get back to you if I still think my idea is possible.
Regards,
Paul
@affordabletech said in Would You Like Support For ESP8266 'Nodes'?:
other forum users requesting the same stood out to me and the story was always the same use MQTT and more recently go try something else (which I read as 'Go Away!!')
If somebody is needing a functionality like you said of course it will get a response to look at something else since mysensors is lacking it and there are other working alternatives available right now. If you want to develop that functionality now it is going to take a long time and most of the people can't wait 1 or 2 years for it to become available. It is good to open a topic and have an open discussion and see if someone else is interested.
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@kimot said in Would You Like Support For ESP8266 'Nodes'?:
I think, better is, when each node with ESP8266 send messages directly to controller and controller to this node ( on its IP ).
Yes, I've had to do that for a couple of ESP8266 nodes I added recently, but the problem with that work-around is that those nodes are not really part of the network. They are 'isolated' because they bypass the gateway and cannot talk / interact with other nodes, so you no longer have an 'integrated home automation network' and it can quickly become a 'disjointed collection of random nodes'.
A lot of thought was put into the design of my system so that many of my nodes communicate direct with each other; if nodes have to depend on the controller to do their job, the system doesn't work if the controller is temporarily off-line. For example, every minute, my power monitoring node transmits total kWHr usage direct to the node in my large display panel, which displays my total power bill $'s so far this month. Most of my room lights are PIR controlled, so my outside store-room node has a PIR sensor and light relay (with manual switch also), but the PIR 'node' is smart enough to trigger a warning inside, if the PIR detects movement when my 'network' knows I'm in the house - my 'nodes' are smart enough to know which room I was last detected in, and I can't be in two places at the same time, nor can I be magically transported (yet) from one room to a non-adjacent room. So if I'm in the bathroom, and the front door opens or movement is detected in 'non adjacent' room, something is really wrong and a message 'beep twice' is sent direct to my internal siren node to alert me (unless I've told the network I have guests of cause). It's the little 'smarts' in each node that make my home automation system so personal and beneficial, that's why I am dead against 'isolated' dumb nodes. Having a PIR node send a message to the controller, then the controller send a message to the light 'relay' is dumb, the PIR node needs to talk direct to its associated relay node, which also receives regular updates, 'direct' from my outside LUX light sensor, so the 'relay node' is smart enough to know if it is appropriate to turn the light on or not.
Some people may say the controller should do this, and yes, my controller has various rules, but I prefer to add 'some' basic intelligence to the nodes so they are not dependant on the controller, simply because all my nodes are powered by a central solar charged 12V battery store, or have their own battery. However, my controller is a Windows machine because I wanted a reasonably powerful controller for data logging, statistical data, and graphs etc, so its powered from the mains. My automation/security system can function 'as normal' for over 24 hours without the controller or mains power. Each node is capable of doing its job and buffering its data while the controller is off-line, e.g. a 240V (or 12V) light will still come on when I walk into a room etc. This means I don't have to worry about my controller being off-line for maintenance, or a blackout etc, no loss of functionality or data.
Hopefully, you will see why I don't like 'isolated' nodes or 'work-arounds' that cannot be fully integrated, as the whole purpose of home automation is to integrate devices in the home.
Regards,
Paul
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@scalz said in Would You Like Support For ESP8266 'Nodes'?:
which post was it ??
The post just before mine: https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/6935/esp8266-as-mysensors-nodes-instead-of-arduino-nrf24l01/4
when you say people use espeasy because esp nodes not available in mysensors (in your other post)
That's news to me, no idea where I stated that? I can only recall mentioning EspEasy when I stated a MySensors user wanting ESP nodes was told to try EspEasy (read it for yourself in the link above). Somewhere I did say the difficulty of having to use the MQTT workaround and having to setup a computer with Mosquito was causing people to abandon MySensors, which I know to be a fact and can substantiate. Personally, I can't see any reason why someone would use EspEasy, and I'd certainly discourage anyone considering it.
Regarding the AliExpress suggestion, I appreciate the tip. Not understanding the differences between the various 5x, I'm reluctant to buy something without knowing it's suitable for MySensors. The only device that I've seen that I could confirm would run MySensors core was the RedBear board and another $69 module on eBay. If you have a specific AliExpress chip number or module reference, I'd appreciate that.
Cheers,
Paul
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And now have you got network, where RF nodes can directly communicate with RS485 nodes without controller?
I think no.@kimot said in Would You Like Support For ESP8266 'Nodes'?:
And now have you got network, where RF nodes can directly communicate with RS485 nodes without controller?
I think no.Where did you read that? I can't imagine anyone here making a statement like that. Certainly nobody has said that in this topic.
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@kimot said in Would You Like Support For ESP8266 'Nodes'?:
And now have you got network, where RF nodes can directly communicate with RS485 nodes without controller?
I think no.Where did you read that? I can't imagine anyone here making a statement like that. Certainly nobody has said that in this topic.
@affordabletech did you look at https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/6961/nrf5-bluetooth-action ?
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@kimot said in Would You Like Support For ESP8266 'Nodes'?:
And now have you got network, where RF nodes can directly communicate with RS485 nodes without controller?
I think no.Where did you read that? I can't imagine anyone here making a statement like that. Certainly nobody has said that in this topic.
I've been told "the focus of MySensors is on RF and RS-485 communications", whereas I always thought MySensors was about an 'open and practical Home Automation ....
Normally, nodes on different "media" cannot talk each to other.
So you need write code for some "super gateway", which integrate RF, RS485 and wifi, to receive data from one media and resend it to other media or to controller.
Then I suggest PJON protocol, which support synchronous and for this purpose useful asynchronous ACK and different network ID.
Or put some UPS on your windows controller. -
I've been told "the focus of MySensors is on RF and RS-485 communications", whereas I always thought MySensors was about an 'open and practical Home Automation ....
Normally, nodes on different "media" cannot talk each to other.
So you need write code for some "super gateway", which integrate RF, RS485 and wifi, to receive data from one media and resend it to other media or to controller.
Then I suggest PJON protocol, which support synchronous and for this purpose useful asynchronous ACK and different network ID.
Or put some UPS on your windows controller. -
@gohan
I think he wants integrate ESP8266 to be able talk directly to other MySensors nodes.
Here is his answer:*Yes, I've had to do that for a couple of ESP8266 nodes I added recently, but the problem with that work-around is that those nodes are not really part of the network. They are 'isolated' because they bypass the gateway and cannot talk / interact with other nodes, so you no longer have an 'integrated home automation network' and it can quickly become a 'disjointed collection of random nodes'.
A lot of thought was put into the design of my system so that many of my nodes communicate direct with each other; if nodes have to depend on the controller to do their job, the system doesn't work if the controller is temporarily off-line..... * -
@kimot said in Would You Like Support For ESP8266 'Nodes'?:
And now have you got network, where RF nodes can directly communicate with RS485 nodes without controller?
I think no.Where did you read that? I can't imagine anyone here making a statement like that. Certainly nobody has said that in this topic.
@affordabletech Playing with custom transport isn't that hard. Here is an unfinished example if you want to follow this path (sorry, I did it in a hurry, so maybe it isn't very self explanatory):
https://github.com/marceloaqno/MySensors/commit/696d0d3993d88b2dc4565db6cb12f57a461372adI think there has never been much interest in creating an ethernet transport before, given the fact that mysensors don't support multiple transports. But there is some work being done to change that.
Building a node-to-node network using Ethernet with a standard client-server topology wouldn't be an easy task, I don't know how you intend to do it, but MQTT could help you with that.
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@marceloaqno ppp
Thanks for the link, I really appreciate the constructive attitude. It might just be what I need to take the plunge and dive in...I'll have a look and get back to you.
Paul
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@AffordableTech
in aliexpress, type "nrf51822" or "nrf52832", and you'll find lot of different dev boards, "final" products etc.. few bucks and more. There is also adafruit, sparkfun (> 15$ .. I agree), or even an original nordic nrf5x dev board is 40$, worth it for dev.
it works in MySensors https://www.openhardware.io/view/376/MySensors-NRF5-Platform- nrf52832: more ios, more peripherals, nfc+ ble or ESB(rf24 compatible mode), very low power. and soon nrf52840 will provide more range (integrated pa), integrated usb, 5v tolerant etc.
- esp8266 ?? wifi ? power hungry. limited ios and peripheral. else it's fun "toy" to play and tinker, I agree. I have a bunch of them that I won't never use I think :confused:
I'm not telling to give up on your esp or "go else where" (though, I haven't read the user said that in the other post, he was just trying to help with what he knows is available).
If you ask me, I prefer esp32 instead of esp8266.. I'm using esp32 for gw/bridge only, personally I think it's dumb to use wifi nodes for everything. I imagine people wanting that, would be mainly for convenience, money maybe or because they don't know pros&cons and alternatives.+1 for marcelo comment above
Lack of time is main problem. So why not helping us, you're welcome! the more features in MySensors, the more fun, and .. the more maintenance :grimacing:Edit: I didn't see your reply above, great to hear ;)
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Thanks @scalz,
A very helpful an welcoming reply.Im no great fan of ESP, particularly becuse of its lack of i/o but it seems ideal for a simple node wirh one switch or I2C sensir.
Here (in Australia) Adafruit and Spark fun products are 200% to 300% higher than US price. I get stuff direct from them when I need qty, but fir 1 or 2 boards, the shipping is just too expensive. So yes, an Adafruit or Spark 5x here is $65.
Anyhow, I will be checking out AliExpress - thanks!
If I can contribute, I will, I'm so happy with my HA, I want to see everyone experiencing what a truly 'smart home' is about. Hardware vendors push their own idea of smart home, but many dont want to share data with competitors products. Sharing data etc is what makes o.s. projects so great. If I can create, or help to create an ethernet based nodes, that would be fantastic as I know how good it is if a simple MySensors temp sensor could switch on a heater 'direct' without having to rely on a controller.
The reason u think this is good, is because little micro processors just seem to do their job year after year, without maintenance, as long as you feed them 'volts'. Complex controllers just are not as reliable.
My water heater is controlled by Arduino which saves me $1,200 pa at least. My hot water now costs 35 cents a day (because it knows my patterns), whereas it usdd to cost $2 to $3 per day keeping it at 55 deg c (thermostats often not adjustable in Oz).I just need 40 deg most of the day (for hand wash etc) and a 'boost' to 55 deg just before my shower/bath. If I want a shower at an 'unusual' time, I have a 'boost' button on my phone or PC and 15 min later water is HOT!. $1200+ for the occasional inconvenience of waiting 15 min is
fine'smart' by me.Cheers,
Paul....
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Thanks @scalz,
A very helpful an welcoming reply.Im no great fan of ESP, particularly becuse of its lack of i/o but it seems ideal for a simple node wirh one switch or I2C sensir.
Here (in Australia) Adafruit and Spark fun products are 200% to 300% higher than US price. I get stuff direct from them when I need qty, but fir 1 or 2 boards, the shipping is just too expensive. So yes, an Adafruit or Spark 5x here is $65.
Anyhow, I will be checking out AliExpress - thanks!
If I can contribute, I will, I'm so happy with my HA, I want to see everyone experiencing what a truly 'smart home' is about. Hardware vendors push their own idea of smart home, but many dont want to share data with competitors products. Sharing data etc is what makes o.s. projects so great. If I can create, or help to create an ethernet based nodes, that would be fantastic as I know how good it is if a simple MySensors temp sensor could switch on a heater 'direct' without having to rely on a controller.
The reason u think this is good, is because little micro processors just seem to do their job year after year, without maintenance, as long as you feed them 'volts'. Complex controllers just are not as reliable.
My water heater is controlled by Arduino which saves me $1,200 pa at least. My hot water now costs 35 cents a day (because it knows my patterns), whereas it usdd to cost $2 to $3 per day keeping it at 55 deg c (thermostats often not adjustable in Oz).I just need 40 deg most of the day (for hand wash etc) and a 'boost' to 55 deg just before my shower/bath. If I want a shower at an 'unusual' time, I have a 'boost' button on my phone or PC and 15 min later water is HOT!. $1200+ for the occasional inconvenience of waiting 15 min is
fine'smart' by me.Cheers,
Paul....
TO ALL IN THIS TOPIC
I though it was appropriate I acknowledge that I now realise I misunderstood there was anti-ESP sentiment here, its more a case of just too busy to jump onto every idea mentioned. Like a few others who spoke to me, I failed to make an official request, therefore until I did and was told err.. 'where to go', I should not have assumed anything.There was never any ill intention, just frustration as I probably love MySensors as much as anybody else here. Like everyone, I have real time restraints, but if I can conribute, I will.
My thanks to everyone who has taken the time to comment.
Paul
