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  1. Home
  2. General Discussion
  3. Over the air (OTA) bootloading update tutorial?

Over the air (OTA) bootloading update tutorial?

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  • petewillP Offline
    petewillP Offline
    petewill
    Admin
    wrote on last edited by
    #35

    I am starting to play with OTA updates and I'm interested in testing the DualOptiBoot method. I have been searching the forum but I haven't been able to find a recommendation for what external flash memory to get. Does anyone have any suggestions? An eBay link would be fantastic if possible.

    My "How To" home automation video channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq_Evyh5PQALx4m4CQuxqkA

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    • AnticimexA Offline
      AnticimexA Offline
      Anticimex
      Contest Winner
      wrote on last edited by
      #36

      I have a mouser link to a memory that should work: http://eu.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?R=AT25DF512C-SSHN-Bvirtualkey58070000virtualkey988-AT25DF512CSSHN-B

      Do you feel secure today? No? Start requiring some signatures and feel better tomorrow ;)

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      • tbowmoT Offline
        tbowmoT Offline
        tbowmo
        Admin
        wrote on last edited by tbowmo
        #37

        @petewill
        please note that these external flashes are typically only rated for 3.3V.. (I can't remember if I have seen a 5V external flash actually).

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        • petewillP Offline
          petewillP Offline
          petewill
          Admin
          wrote on last edited by
          #38

          @Anticimex Thanks! Maybe I'll just order from Mouser or Digi-Key. I need to get the ATSHA204A also and I can't find much on eBay.

          @tbowmo Good to know, thanks! I'm sure I'll have more questions on wiring when I finally get to that point... :)

          My "How To" home automation video channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq_Evyh5PQALx4m4CQuxqkA

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          • mfalkviddM Online
            mfalkviddM Online
            mfalkvidd
            Mod
            wrote on last edited by
            #39

            Does a signed crc really provide sufficient security? Modifying a firmware in a way that results in the same crc should be fairly easy, since crc is very predictable.

            AnticimexA 1 Reply Last reply
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            • mfalkviddM mfalkvidd

              Does a signed crc really provide sufficient security? Modifying a firmware in a way that results in the same crc should be fairly easy, since crc is very predictable.

              AnticimexA Offline
              AnticimexA Offline
              Anticimex
              Contest Winner
              wrote on last edited by
              #40

              @mfalkvidd if so, the choice of crc algorithm is bad. And a hash should be used instead.

              Do you feel secure today? No? Start requiring some signatures and feel better tomorrow ;)

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              • mfalkviddM Online
                mfalkviddM Online
                mfalkvidd
                Mod
                wrote on last edited by
                #41

                Yes. A cryptographic hash function to be specific.

                AnticimexA 1 Reply Last reply
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                • AnticimexA Offline
                  AnticimexA Offline
                  Anticimex
                  Contest Winner
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #42

                  Well, obviously. We already have sha256 capability. But not publicly available.

                  Do you feel secure today? No? Start requiring some signatures and feel better tomorrow ;)

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                  • mfalkviddM mfalkvidd

                    Yes. A cryptographic hash function to be specific.

                    AnticimexA Offline
                    AnticimexA Offline
                    Anticimex
                    Contest Winner
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #43

                    @mfalkvidd even if crc can be predictable, the signing mechanism is not. So let's assume you can fabricate a firmware with a desirable crc, you still need to provide a valid signature for that crc. And that would not be so easy given the use of a random nonce and a PSK.

                    Do you feel secure today? No? Start requiring some signatures and feel better tomorrow ;)

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                    • mfalkviddM Online
                      mfalkviddM Online
                      mfalkvidd
                      Mod
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #44

                      Good point. Using a nonce should be enough even if a predictable compression function is used. The signing would then verify the entire conversation, not just the binary blob.

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                      • AnticimexA Offline
                        AnticimexA Offline
                        Anticimex
                        Contest Winner
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #45

                        The use of random nonce ensures (at least to a significant extent) that two signatures will never look the same even with the same payload. So replaying signed messages won't work. Based on that, it won't be possible for an attacker to provide a trusted crc of any form after it has sent the forged FW that yield the same crc as a valid firmware would.
                        The only way I see that this could be exploited is if the attacker managed to predict the resulting crc and black out the valid FW as it is sent OTA and instead inject the forged FW. And then it let the valid senders signed crc pass though.
                        But that require the attacker to know the resulting crc of the real FW. And if the OTA solution include a random component with the firmware that is covered by crc that also becomes a tricky task. @tekka might be interested in that.

                        Do you feel secure today? No? Start requiring some signatures and feel better tomorrow ;)

                        tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • AnticimexA Anticimex

                          The use of random nonce ensures (at least to a significant extent) that two signatures will never look the same even with the same payload. So replaying signed messages won't work. Based on that, it won't be possible for an attacker to provide a trusted crc of any form after it has sent the forged FW that yield the same crc as a valid firmware would.
                          The only way I see that this could be exploited is if the attacker managed to predict the resulting crc and black out the valid FW as it is sent OTA and instead inject the forged FW. And then it let the valid senders signed crc pass though.
                          But that require the attacker to know the resulting crc of the real FW. And if the OTA solution include a random component with the firmware that is covered by crc that also becomes a tricky task. @tekka might be interested in that.

                          tekkaT Offline
                          tekkaT Offline
                          tekka
                          Admin
                          wrote on last edited by tekka
                          #46

                          In it's current stage, the OTA FW update is initiated by a FIRMWARE_CONFIG_RESPONSE message consisting of FW type, FW version, and FW CRC. If any of these parameters mismatches, the node will request a new FW. The CRC is validated at the end of the OTA update process against the transmitted FW and written in the EEPROM. This opens ways to forge the OTA update process, as described by @Anticimex

                          In order to make the OTA update process more secure, adding a random byte to every FW block transmitted and computing the CRC over all sent bytes makes the process more secure and the CRC less predictable. This also implies that the signed CRC is transmitted at the end of the update process and validated against the received FW + random bytes. If any component of the transmitted FW is altered, the CRC will fail and the new FW discarded.

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                          • mfalkviddM Online
                            mfalkviddM Online
                            mfalkvidd
                            Mod
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #47

                            I'm not sure a random byte would be sufficient. How do we verify that the correct random byte is used? If the attacker can choose the random number in their firmware, getting a crc that matches the original firmware is trivial. Or do you suggest that a nonce is used for each FW packet? If so, how is that nonce verified?

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                            • AnticimexA Offline
                              AnticimexA Offline
                              Anticimex
                              Contest Winner
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #48

                              Why would a random byte not be sufficient? The only problem to solve is to make the crc unpredictable. Also, making sure a OTA process is started and finalized by a signed message, and those messages are a function of the OTA firmware, I don't see any security implications.

                              Do you feel secure today? No? Start requiring some signatures and feel better tomorrow ;)

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                              • mfalkviddM Online
                                mfalkviddM Online
                                mfalkvidd
                                Mod
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #49

                                My point is that a crc is, by definition, never unpredictable. If an attacker records one firmware update, the attacker can easily replace the firmware and adjust the random bytes to arrive at the same crc. Then the attacker can simply re-use the signature, since it will still be valid. Or am I missing something?

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                                • AnticimexA Offline
                                  AnticimexA Offline
                                  Anticimex
                                  Contest Winner
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #50

                                  @mfalkvidd how can an attacker reuse a signature? Nonce used is discarded when a message is signed/verified. If the crc is sent last and based on a unpredictable blob, crc is also unpredictable and only the true source can put a valid signature on a crc that will unlikely be the same two times in a row. On top of that, throw in some AES encryption and I'd say the attacker would be better off with doing a smash & grab on the node to do what he wants.

                                  Do you feel secure today? No? Start requiring some signatures and feel better tomorrow ;)

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                                  • mfalkviddM Online
                                    mfalkviddM Online
                                    mfalkvidd
                                    Mod
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #51

                                    I agree. I guess what's confusing me is that you're talking about validating the conversation, while tekka is talking about validating the crc. Just validating the crc will be insufficient, but that's not what you're talking about.

                                    AnticimexA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • mfalkviddM mfalkvidd

                                      I agree. I guess what's confusing me is that you're talking about validating the conversation, while tekka is talking about validating the crc. Just validating the crc will be insufficient, but that's not what you're talking about.

                                      AnticimexA Offline
                                      AnticimexA Offline
                                      Anticimex
                                      Contest Winner
                                      wrote on last edited by Anticimex
                                      #52

                                      @mfalkvidd well, that is what I'm talking about. My point being, that you can't forge a valid signature. So you can't record a signed message of a crc, make your own firmware that happens to result in the same crc, transmit that, and then send the same signed crc. The receiver won't accept it since a new nonce is used every time. And the PSK is needed to calculate a new signature with a new nonce.

                                      Do you feel secure today? No? Start requiring some signatures and feel better tomorrow ;)

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                                      • mfalkviddM Online
                                        mfalkviddM Online
                                        mfalkvidd
                                        Mod
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #53

                                        Agreed.
                                        Will adding a random number to each FW packet (as suggested by tekka) add any security? A single nonce somewhere in the conversation should be sufficient I think. Adding random bytes to each packet would add complexity but not security, as the protection would come from the nonce anyway, right?

                                        tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • mfalkviddM mfalkvidd

                                          Agreed.
                                          Will adding a random number to each FW packet (as suggested by tekka) add any security? A single nonce somewhere in the conversation should be sufficient I think. Adding random bytes to each packet would add complexity but not security, as the protection would come from the nonce anyway, right?

                                          tekkaT Offline
                                          tekkaT Offline
                                          tekka
                                          Admin
                                          wrote on last edited by tekka
                                          #54

                                          @mfalkvidd Both result in the same - making the CRC "unpredictable", which is what we need. You can see the added random bytes as a nonce streching over the entire OTA update process.

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