nRF5 action!
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@NeverDie
oki cool.
Raytac has also modules with pcb antenna, and interestingly, from their datasheet, perform worse than their chip antenna version.
I prefer to clarify it a bit! We can't say pcb antenna are always better than chip antenna. :)
But it's sure that you can't get the best performance with an antenna which is not adapted to the usecase.
Also, when doing very tiny pcb, the gnd plane can be too small regarding the wavelength etc, decreasing even more the antenna efficiency.
The more tiny, the less range..that's not a problem for a wearable, that you wear, close to your phone.@scalz said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
Also, when doing very tiny pcb, the gnd plane can be too small regarding the wavelength etc, decreasing even more the antenna efficiency.
The more tiny, the less range..that's not a problem for a wearable, that you wear, close to your phone.As long as it's within range of a gateway, then it's good enough. Fortunately, it's really cheap to make gateways using ESP8266's, so you can have lots of gateways sprinkled around if needed. Of course, that's yet another trade-off, as it's not free, and it's arguably not even desirable either. Still, for tiny antenna's (like maybe for a soil moisture sensor in an indoor flower pot), being inconspicuous may make it worth the price.
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I'm cutting my losses. The googling I've done on this issue is not giving me much reason for optimism about the use of an ST-LINK V2 for this configuration. In fact, just the opposite.
I may get the DK to tide me over until the Segger J-Link and the other hardware arrives.
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Just noticed that the ESP32S integrates both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth BLE. I guess it's not exactly on-point with what we're discussing here, as I doubt (?) it includes Nordic's proprietary radio modes that mysensors will be using (instead of Bluetooth BLE per se) in the nRF52832, but, golly gee, for just $5, that sounds like quite a package!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESP-32S-ESP32-WLAN-BLE-IoT-Modul-Dual-Core-CPU-Ethernet-Port-MCU-ESP8266-/182490173587?hash=item2a7d431093:g:7YIAAOSw4YdYyQW8If Mysensors ever did use BLE, I'd imagine it might make an excellent gateway (and cheap enough that you could easily afford quite a number of them to, say, guarantee solid radio communications throughout your house).
Why is it that mysensors is opting for the Nordic proprietary mode instead of the BLE standard? Is it just too cumbersome or something?
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@NeverDie
Mysensors isn't opting especially for "nordic mode".
You're mixing a bit things.. So far Mysensors was using nrf24, and the nrf52 is compatible. That's all! Pretty cool to have the feature available i think.
Then, regarding, BLE etc, i can only say, there might be some nice feature in future, but that will need some patience ;) BLE is another protocol like Mysensors is.Yep, esp32 is very nice, and i like my "Halo" esp32 gw. But I wouldn't use it without a strong battery, the radio modes are too much power hungry..
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Anyone here ever gotten the st-link v2 to work with the arduino and nRF52832? Seems like most published instructions pertain to the J-Link instead.
@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
Anyone here ever gotten the st-link v2 to work with the arduino and nRF52832? Seems like most published instructions pertain to the J-Link instead.
Yes, but I use Linux. I have all three supported programmers working. After adding an udev rule to fix permissions for any type of adapter they working very well. If you haven't luck, the CMSIS-DAP is an alternative to ST-Link or J-Link.
@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
Why is it that mysensors is opting for the Nordic proprietary mode instead of the BLE standard? Is it just too cumbersome or something?
There are some reasons I haven't implemented Nordics proprietary standard and I have no intension to use BLE as MySensors transport.
Like @scalz I think MySensors is a protocol and BLE is another protocol. MySensors is optimized to build a network of up to 255 nodes can communicate with low latency and BLE is a complex protocol for a limited number of nodes. There are a lot of use cases for both.
In my opinion, Nordic's BLE code and SDK is not Open Source friendly. I think you can't create LGPL code based on Nordics BLE SDK examples. To Compile code, you have to agree Nordics License or you have to choose.
For MySensors, I think the Apache implementation NimBLE should a good BLE implementation to start with. This Implementations looks more efficient than Nordics implementation and I like the OTA update/bootloader concept. At https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redbearinc/bluetooth-5-ready-ble-module-nano-2-and-blend-2 is a demo video of a 32 node BLE network. It looks like there is a high latency in communication.
To support Nordics SoftDevice or another BLE implementation, the MySensors nRF5 code must be extended to use the hardware abstraction for e.g. random number generation, accessing flash memory or interrupt handling. When it's done a MY_RADIO_NRF5_BLE can be implemented.
Another option could be to use BLE packages without the BLE protocol, then its possible to communicate with any BLE MCU which allows direct access to the radio. Actually you can use the ESB protocol with BLE modulation, but I think this is incompatible to other BLE MCU.
BTW: The nRF52840 cannot communicate with 250kbit nRF24. This rate is depreciated since nRF52822 release.
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@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
Anyone here ever gotten the st-link v2 to work with the arduino and nRF52832? Seems like most published instructions pertain to the J-Link instead.
Yes, but I use Linux. I have all three supported programmers working. After adding an udev rule to fix permissions for any type of adapter they working very well. If you haven't luck, the CMSIS-DAP is an alternative to ST-Link or J-Link.
@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
Why is it that mysensors is opting for the Nordic proprietary mode instead of the BLE standard? Is it just too cumbersome or something?
There are some reasons I haven't implemented Nordics proprietary standard and I have no intension to use BLE as MySensors transport.
Like @scalz I think MySensors is a protocol and BLE is another protocol. MySensors is optimized to build a network of up to 255 nodes can communicate with low latency and BLE is a complex protocol for a limited number of nodes. There are a lot of use cases for both.
In my opinion, Nordic's BLE code and SDK is not Open Source friendly. I think you can't create LGPL code based on Nordics BLE SDK examples. To Compile code, you have to agree Nordics License or you have to choose.
For MySensors, I think the Apache implementation NimBLE should a good BLE implementation to start with. This Implementations looks more efficient than Nordics implementation and I like the OTA update/bootloader concept. At https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redbearinc/bluetooth-5-ready-ble-module-nano-2-and-blend-2 is a demo video of a 32 node BLE network. It looks like there is a high latency in communication.
To support Nordics SoftDevice or another BLE implementation, the MySensors nRF5 code must be extended to use the hardware abstraction for e.g. random number generation, accessing flash memory or interrupt handling. When it's done a MY_RADIO_NRF5_BLE can be implemented.
Another option could be to use BLE packages without the BLE protocol, then its possible to communicate with any BLE MCU which allows direct access to the radio. Actually you can use the ESB protocol with BLE modulation, but I think this is incompatible to other BLE MCU.
BTW: The nRF52840 cannot communicate with 250kbit nRF24. This rate is depreciated since nRF52822 release.
@d00616 said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
Thanks for your post!I have all three supported programmers working.
It's great that you have that perspective to share. Which of the three do you most prefer, and why? Also, if picking one for use under a Windows environment, which would you recommend most?
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@d00616 said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
Thanks for your post!I have all three supported programmers working.
It's great that you have that perspective to share. Which of the three do you most prefer, and why? Also, if picking one for use under a Windows environment, which would you recommend most?
@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
It's great that you have that perspective to share. Which of the three do you most prefer, and why? Also, if picking one for use under a Windows environment, which would you recommend most?
The J-LINK is integrated into my nRF51 Dev Boards. Arduino-nrf5 uses openocd but I have also used the original software. The CMSIS-DAP is part of some RedBear boards I use.
For any other board without an integrated programmer I use the cheap ST-Link clones and an extra USB to 3.3V serial converter. Be careful I have two versions looking identical but with completely different pin assignments.
The arduino-nrf5 cannot address different devices. This is the reason I like to use different programmers. I can connect two devices and address them by choosing another programmer.
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Just received my nRF52832 DK, and it included 5 additional nrf52832 chips in it. Wasn't even expecting that.
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First impression after a quick looking it over: other than having a built-in J-Link, it looks like the DK will be of no extra benefit with respect to the mysensors nRF52832 implementation.
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@Terrence
Since it has a built-in J-Link, it should be helpful in programming the nrf52832 that's already soldered onto the DK. However, will it be helpful in programming an off-board nrf52832 like the adafruit board or, say, the sparkfun board? I don't know.Maybe I haven't found the right starting point. I went to the url given on a small card in the DK, but it's mostly links to datasheets, white papers, app notes, a couple phone demo apps, software that can be downloaded, etc. I'm not finding a tutorial. Contrast that to what, for example, cypress semiconductor has for their bluetooth evaluation board, which is a whole video series of something like 50 video tutorials that walks you through from A to Z on how to use it.
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I'm finally able to get some primitive sketches (such as Blink and printing to Serial) to run on the NRF52 DK using these settings:
Somewhat strangely, setting the LED pin LOW turns the LED to "ON", and setting it HIGH turns it OFF. Go figure.
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@Terrence
Since it has a built-in J-Link, it should be helpful in programming the nrf52832 that's already soldered onto the DK. However, will it be helpful in programming an off-board nrf52832 like the adafruit board or, say, the sparkfun board? I don't know.Maybe I haven't found the right starting point. I went to the url given on a small card in the DK, but it's mostly links to datasheets, white papers, app notes, a couple phone demo apps, software that can be downloaded, etc. I'm not finding a tutorial. Contrast that to what, for example, cypress semiconductor has for their bluetooth evaluation board, which is a whole video series of something like 50 video tutorials that walks you through from A to Z on how to use it.
@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:
Contrast that to what, for example, cypress semiconductor has
Wow, cypress is knocking it out of the park on helping us. You would think Nordic would pick up the pace.
Thanks. I will check those videos out. -
OK, using the mysensors example scripts, I have the nRF52832 serving as a serial gateway, and it is receiving messages from an nRF24L01 light sensor that's running on an arduino UNO.
So, apparently, it works. :)
Anyone know whether the nRF52 DK can be used to program other nRF52832's? If not, I guess I'll have to wait for the J-Link programmer I ordered to test out that part of it and get nRF52832 to nRF52832 communication working.
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Here's the really good news. I tried a very quick range test with the above configuration, and it seems to be noticeably better than with two nRF24L01's. I check the datasheets, and, indeed:
nRF24L01: -85dBm sensitivity at 1Mbps
nRF52832: -93 dBm sensitivity, 1Msps nRF modeSo, for an nRF52832, that's an 8dBm improvement in link budget just from improved sensitivity alone. i.e. more than twice the range. Nice. :)
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Here's the really good news. I tried a very quick range test with the above configuration, and it seems to be noticeably better than with two nRF24L01's. I check the datasheets, and, indeed:
nRF24L01: -85dBm sensitivity at 1Mbps
nRF52832: -93 dBm sensitivity, 1Msps nRF modeSo, for an nRF52832, that's an 8dBm improvement in link budget just from improved sensitivity alone. i.e. more than twice the range. Nice. :)
Looks as though the nRF52840 will have the same nRF mode receive sensitivity. However, it will have a receive sensitivity of -103dBm in 125ksps BLE mode. which is huge.
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It's somewhat strange that the F-antenna never caught on with the nRF24L01, which typically used some kind of meandering antenna.
However, as proven by the ESP8266's evolution, the F-antenna is superior.
So, its presence in at least some of the nRF52832 implementations (such as that pictured below) should help as well.
