Everything nRF52840

heinzv

@neverdie take a look at platform.io, it supports al known SOC's. INstall it then from the Visual Studio Code IDE. Both together are a very professional IoT dev environment (also Web and other development).
I was doing very complex development like ESPurna project build you would not like to do in the Arduino IDE.
Let me know if you need further hints.
VSC and Platform.IO includes not only all SOC HW families but also all kind of libraries you know from Arduino and it can also import Arduino project (*.INO Files).
Give it a try and you will be suprrised once you get familar.
It does also the flashing (upload), includes GIT nativly, has a command window, debugging etc etc.

https://code.visualstudio.com/
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=platformio.platformio-ide
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=platform.io&target=VSCode&category=All categories&sortBy=Relevance

Platforms: Atmel AVR, Atmel SAM, Espressif 32, Espressif 8266, Freescale Kinetis, Infineon XMC, Intel ARC32, Intel MCS-51 (8051), Lattice iCE40, Maxim 32, Microchip PIC32, Nordic nRF51, Nordic nRF52, NXP LPC, RISC-V, Samsung ARTIK, Silicon Labs EFM32, ST STM32, Teensy, TI MSP430, TI Tiva, WIZNet W7500

Frameworks: Arduino, ARTIK SDK, CMSIS, Energia, ESP-IDF, libOpenCM3, mbed, Pumbaa, Simba, SPL, STM32Cube, WiringPi

scalz

@heinzv platformio is nice for supporting lot of SOCs. But I think it still rely on sandeep arduino or mbed for nrf5, so, not sure if it adds stuff to the frameworks.. (regarding boards mapping, softdevices, etc). that's what NeverDie is searching I think.. an environment which allows to use all features of the SOC that he buy, ideally with myensors but we still can wait :)
regarding what you asked me previously, this is one of my reason. As missing core features is not what I'm calling fast/easy to market/production for smarter features!
That, and nrf is 2.4ghz only (area here is 9000m², few outbuildings with thick walls too), so increase of BOM&layout when using multiple modules (not a big problem for a gw, less nice for nodes). I don't want to use lora too..

heinzv

@scalz
That is what I found at the nordic docu for development
http://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.nordic.infocenter.gs%2Fdita%2Fgs%2Fgs.html&cp=1
https://www.nordicsemi.com/eng/Products/Bluetooth-low-energy/nRF52-DK
They mention two dev environments

nRF5 Series: Developing with SEGGER Embedded Studio
nRF5 Series: Developing on Windows with ARM Keil MDK

Platform.IO support description for nRF52
framework-arduinonordicnrf5 Arduino Wiring-based Framework (Nordic NRF5 Core)
framework-mbed mbed Framework
tool-jlink SEGGER J-Link Software and Documentation Pack
tool-nrfjprog nRF5x command line tool
tool-openocd OpenOCD
tool-sreccat Merging tool
toolchain-gccarmnoneeabi gcc-arm-embedded

So what MCU's and radio/transmission are you using then ... ?

NeverDie

I don't see specific support in platformio for nRF52840. Also, it's support for nRF52 generally seems to rely on mbed:
https://github.com/platformio/platform-nordicnrf52/tree/master/examples?utm_source=platformio&utm_medium=docs

I suspect the only way to do this is to use Nordic's SDK and one of the tool chains that Nordic recognizes as working with it. I hope I can find one without a heavy learning curve. Either that or limp along with mbed, which is half baked but (so far) at least allows me to do direct registry manipulations. With mbed maybe it will turn out that the total amount of remedial code I have to write isn't huge. Not sure. I don't have much confidence in mbed's future though. I'm noticing that a lot of the posts on their forum go completely unanswered.

Nordic, on the other hand, seems much better about answering posted questions (well, 5 days a week anyway. Forget about weekends).

@heinzv We've come full circle on this. I previously posted a question on the Sandeep github as to whether it supported the nRF52840, and the answer was no, its SDK was too new, but that maybe I would have some success in programming it if I treated it like an nRF52832. https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-nRF5/issues/310 Well, that's really no better than the current situation with mbed.

The only other thing on the horizon might be miropython. Not sure if micropython is fully deterministic enough for microcontroller work (e.g. might it garbage collect in the middle of a critical loop?), but maybe it's worth a shot. "Blinka & her new pal the nRF52840" https://learn.adafruit.com/circuitpython-on-the-nrf52

heinzv

@NeverDie have you also checked this from my previous 3 posts agao
https://github.com/lpercifield/arduino-nRF5/tree/nrf52840

this is a fork from sandeeps Arduino-NRF5 project which explicitly adds nRF52840 (that was the reason for the fork) where people have been waiting for (and probably sandeep has not announced a support soon).
See also sandeeps respons to lpercifield's work
https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-nRF5/issues/70

Softdevice in this project is at S132 and Nordic newest is S140 (full BLE5 stack). Don't know why is was not yet worked into and why there is not realy a big progress since 2 years.

At least there is a project with nRF52 and LoRa (SX1276/RFM95) :-)
https://github.com/gluedig/nrf52-lora

NeverDie

@heinzv Thanks for pointing that out. It sounds like lpercifield encountered the exact same problems as me, except two years earlier. But, then he hasn't touched his code in the 2 years afterward. Nordic's SDK has changed since then. I'm just not sure.

I guess it's a question of whether these one person, piecemeal attempts are enough, or whether joining with a toolchain that has a lot more oomph behind it is preferable. I suspect the total amount of work involved is just too much for one person, in their spare time, to accomplish more than partial coverage. Again, not sure, but I can see what @scalz means.

I don't think Nordic has any interest in Arduino IDE support per se. If anything, it probably means a costly support burden to them without revenues to support it. Instead, Nordic is clearly targeting big commercial buyers , like phone manufacturers or the like, who will buy millions of chips just to have the latest features/capabilities. So, with nothing to pay for it on the Arduino front, except maybe a tiny bit by Adafruit or Sparkfun, it's necessarily just a bunch of individual, ad hoc efforts, or so it seems to me. Those individuals will solve whatever matters to them personally, but leaving spotty coverage on everything else. It' is admittedly better than nothing. Maybe for what I'm doing it's good enough. More than a little frustrating though.

scalz

@NeverDie dilemma.
maybe try: apache mynewt + plugin for visual studio code. that might pick your curiosity. I liked it when I tried. but you know.. :nerd_face:

or zephyr but I don't know much about it.
of course, these advanced toolchains are less easy to get started than arduino (setup or coding details). needs to port some arduino libs when you need it (makes sense). You won't get proprietary rf stack like MySensors out of the box too. It'll be BLE based in this case.
But you'll be able to use your mcu as you wish.

I hope you'll like it, else do like me :laughing:

NeverDie

You can also increase range by increasing the number of preamble bytes. Today I upgraded to using 4 preamble bytes. Beyond that it's likely diminishing returns.

To do the same on the nRF52840, use:

  NRF_RADIO->PCNF0=0x02000000;  //4 pre-amble bytes.  S0,LENGTH, and S1 are all zero bits long.

@heinzv Another factor in range is how high off the ground your radio nodes are. This can have a huge effect, due to multipath fading from the ground. According to the Fanstel datasheet, for instance, even going from half a meter off the ground to 1.5 meters off the ground can almost triple your range. So, at the very least, try to put your gateway up as high as you can.

scalz

@NeverDie
exactly.
with infos below, you have everything for estimating the range (maybe that can interest others people too):

https://forum.mysensors.org/post/93384 simple but so true.
an excellent excel sheet made by.. TI! :) where you can pick absorption materials, set height of antenna, indoor/outdoor calc etc
http://www.ti.com/tool/RF-RANGE-ESTIMATOR
The doc for the sheet http://www.ti.com/lit/an/swra479a/swra479a.pdf , very interesting too with comparison about selectivity/blocking etc
or the forum thread in case https://e2e.ti.com/support/wireless_connectivity/proprietary_sub_1_ghz_simpliciti/f/156/t/375556
works ok, here, with excel 2010 viewer (else you can't use choice lists)
As it targets TI mcu, it's explained in docs that you can try by using an "equivalent" TI mcu, then check datasheet values for your mcu and change what's needed in the excel sheet. Maybe cc2640r2f and nrf52840 has "same" rf perf at 125kbps, no idea about blocking level.

Lot of variables, which also make a FCC module to become non-FCC when soldered on a custom board; all certified modules pass tests regarding a specific manufacturer design&usecase, they cannot certify that people won't degrade RF and emit bad stuff, thus that become non-FCC. Applicable to all RF devices though, rf laws rules (even when changing antenna for better gain, or different shape, on wifi router, it breaks certif in theory).
Like you said, better pick a good antenna sure! There are antenna which are resistant to detuning, but most of antennas like "coiled" wire, meandered pcb trace (cdebyte 52832 type), or ceramic antennas are easily detuned by pcb layout, or once it's enclosed, or close to objects (stacked boards, metals, hands etc). Then, they need to be rematched to get best range.
Good to know and interesting stuff ;)

NeverDie

Well, interestingly, I just now tried the BLE Long Range preamble, which is 10 reptetitions of 0x3C, and it really does seem to make a noticeable improvement in coverage/range/reliability. Obviously the extra repetitions help, but I think maybe (?) it's also partly because the 4 byte preamble is the one specified by 802.11.15, which is 4 bytes of all zeros (which is pretty weird. Never seen that as the preferred choice before. Usually preambles are alternating high low signals instead).

To set the preamble to BLE Long Range, use:

 NRF_RADIO->PCNF0=0x03000000;  //10 preamble bytes.  S0,LENGTH, and S1 are all zero bits long.

.

NeverDie

Skylab has modules at just $5.50: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Nordic-Offical-Strategic-Partner-SKYLAB-Long-Distance-Range-bluetooth-5-ble-5-0-nrf52-nrf52840-module/32920765239.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.102.59ae549fMHxusA&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10130_10547_10546_10059_10884_10548_315_10545_10887_10696_100031_531_10084_10083_10103_451_10618_452_10307,searchweb201603_45,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=43141ae1-fb38-4ef7-b964-6c2d29338f79-16&algo_pvid=43141ae1-fb38-4ef7-b964-6c2d29338f79&priceBeautifyAB=0

Unfortunately, I don't see the module on their website, nor does the listing show a pinout. Of course, the antenna won't be good. Regardless, I'd like to see a pinout.

monte

@neverdie why won't you use Nordic's native SDK with Eclipse? I found some tutorials how to set it up, so I guess it's an option.

heinzv

@neverdie thanks for the info, I appreciate your effort and investigations. I'll use my gateway and the sensor nodes at least in 1,5m height from the ground.
Today I got my nrF52832 and also the nRF52840. The E73..C modules are tiny (around 11x16mm). I can't use it without a breakout board. CDBYTE promised me to send me at least reference PCB design which I can then order from any PCB company.

The Skylab moduls are promising, but I see some deficiencies: No pinout, less pins (don't know what was skiped), no 32kHz low power quart for sleep timer ... I have ordered some other modules ... lets see, so far I can't test a lot without the carrier PCB's.
Then I join you with testing (range/transmisson test, sensor readout, battery measurement, ePaper ...)

NeverDie

I seem to be getting noticeably better coverage when receiving with a BT840F than with an nRF52840-DK. That's a bit surprising, as the ground plane is smaller. The are several possible explanations, but I'm guessing the metal can around the radio, which the BT840F has but the nRF52840-DK lacks, probably helps reduce the effective noise floor and thereby improve the S/N ratio. So, if you're picking a module, you may want to pick a module which has that. :) Most of them don't, but there are a few that do.

NeverDie

It turns out mbed does support the p1 pins. It just uses a different notation. Instead of P1_00, it's P1_0. Here's a link to all of the pin names: https://github.com/ARMmbed/mbed-os/blob/master/targets/TARGET_NORDIC/TARGET_NRF5x/TARGET_NRF52/TARGET_MCU_NRF52840/TARGET_NRF52840_DK/PinNames.h

So, because of ease of use and that I'm already started with it, I'm going to stick with mbed a bit longer. I have run across one inconvenient bug relating to send serial communications, but I've reported it, and I've devised a workaround to it until it gets fixed.

Meanwhile, with all the above tweaks, I'm getting pretty good home coverage with just a single gateway mounted centrally on the second floor. It's not yet at LoRa's near perfect transmission/reception for a every conceivable nook and cranny in a home environment, but I suspect it may approach that once the amplified modules becomes available. And that's all transmitting at 1mbps, without the benefit of BLE Long Range which it is capable of doing.

Nca78

And what about Segger Embedded Studio ? It's now free to use with Nordic SDK for NRF5 MCUs
https://www.segger.com/news/segger-embedded-studio-ide-now-free-for-nordic-sdk-users/

NeverDie

I resurrected @d00616 's code for reading the supply voltage to the nRF52, and it seems to work reasonably accurately on the nRF52840-DONGLE. Here it is again to spare people from searching for it:

uint16_t hwCPUVoltage()
{
  // VDD is prescaled 1/3 and compared with the internal 1.2V reference

  int32_t sample;
  NRF_SAADC->ENABLE = SAADC_ENABLE_ENABLE_Enabled << SAADC_ENABLE_ENABLE_Pos;
  NRF_SAADC->RESOLUTION = SAADC_RESOLUTION_VAL_8bit << SAADC_RESOLUTION_VAL_Pos;
  NRF_SAADC->CH[0].PSELP = SAADC_CH_PSELP_PSELP_VDD << SAADC_CH_PSELP_PSELP_Pos;
  NRF_SAADC->CH[0].CONFIG = (SAADC_CH_CONFIG_BURST_Disabled << SAADC_CH_CONFIG_BURST_Pos) |
                            (SAADC_CH_CONFIG_MODE_SE << SAADC_CH_CONFIG_MODE_Pos) |
                            (SAADC_CH_CONFIG_TACQ_3us << SAADC_CH_CONFIG_TACQ_Pos) |
                            (SAADC_CH_CONFIG_REFSEL_Internal << SAADC_CH_CONFIG_REFSEL_Pos) |
                            (SAADC_CH_CONFIG_GAIN_Gain1_6 << SAADC_CH_CONFIG_GAIN_Pos) |
                            (SAADC_CH_CONFIG_RESN_Bypass << SAADC_CH_CONFIG_RESN_Pos) |
                            (SAADC_CH_CONFIG_RESP_Bypass << SAADC_CH_CONFIG_RESP_Pos);
  NRF_SAADC->OVERSAMPLE = SAADC_OVERSAMPLE_OVERSAMPLE_Bypass << SAADC_OVERSAMPLE_OVERSAMPLE_Pos;
  NRF_SAADC->SAMPLERATE = SAADC_SAMPLERATE_MODE_Task << SAADC_SAMPLERATE_MODE_Pos;
  NRF_SAADC->RESULT.MAXCNT = 1;
  NRF_SAADC->RESULT.PTR = (uint32_t)&sample;

  NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_STARTED = 0;
  NRF_SAADC->TASKS_START = 1;
  while (!NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_STARTED);
  NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_STARTED = 0;

  NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_END = 0;
  NRF_SAADC->TASKS_SAMPLE = 1;
  while (!NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_END);
  NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_END = 0;

  NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_STOPPED = 0;
  NRF_SAADC->TASKS_STOP = 1;
  while (!NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_STOPPED);
  NRF_SAADC->EVENTS_STOPPED = 1;

  NRF_SAADC->ENABLE = (SAADC_ENABLE_ENABLE_Disabled << SAADC_ENABLE_ENABLE_Pos);

  return (sample*3600)/255;
}

With that as a voltage reference point, I plan to next try reading and wireless reporting the voltage on a solar panel, the one charging the supercap that will be powering the dongle.

It's nice that the previous work done on the nRF52832 is easily and quickly ported to the nRF52840. :)

NeverDie

I found a driver for doing 802.15.4 on the nRF52840 that looks rather interesting: https://github.com/NordicSemiconductor/nRF-IEEE-802.15.4-radio-driver
The sample application its Wiki makes it look rather easy to use:
https://github.com/NordicSemiconductor/nRF-IEEE-802.15.4-radio-driver/wiki/Sample-application

NeverDie

@nca78 said in Everything nRF52840:

And what about Segger Embedded Studio ? It's now free to use with Nordic SDK for NRF5 MCUs
https://www.segger.com/news/segger-embedded-studio-ide-now-free-for-nordic-sdk-users/

Looks quite promising, and probably easier to setup than eclipse. Actually seems quite sophisticated with tight debugger integration.

I tried to get started with eclipse, and I immediately got lost. I just couldn't find a good tutorial for its C++ IDE. Segger looks as though it may be simpler.

In order to be able to run the 802.15.4 demo code, which I refer to above, I need to be able to use an IDE that can utilize the Nordic SDK. I'm not sure that mbed can do that. So, unless someone knows of anything simpler, maybe segger embedded studio is it.

NeverDie

I have Segger Embedded Studio (SES) up and running now. I built and ran the Nordic SDK's "hello world" over serial example. It works. Following this video made it easy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZouRE_Ol8g&index=2&t=0s&list=PLx_tBuQ_KSqGHmzdEL2GWEOeix-S5rgTV

It's clear from this that all the Nordic SDK examples directly support SES, because there are preconfigured files within the Nordic SDK for building each example on Segger Embedded Studio. :) I don't see the same for mbed. :(

Also, as an aside, it's worth noting that the SDK's after 12.3 no longer support the nRF51. The current nordic SDK is version 15.2. Make of that what you will.

Everything nRF52840

20

11.7k

11.2k

113.0k