@mfalkvidd I already found a similar library - but cannot find it again. My thoughts were that a full filesystem is really too much overhead for just storing some configuration bytes. But the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Flash is really cheap and with 8Mbit it would be enought - also for wear leveling. The first 2Mbits are reserved for OTA downloads and the rest is formatted with the filesystem. A application could reuse it for data logging or something like this..

I already tried to implement it. But spiffs is not a out of the box library and I'm not quite sure how this hardware specific should be integrated to MySensors..

I also found this for the spark core: https://github.com/m-mcgowan/spark-flashee-eeprom

Thanks for all your comments

I would like to start as small and cheap as possible but to be able to scale it up. It is on purpose to not have kickstarter in mind. I even don't want to calculate a big business case.. But I would need to if I have to pay for all the certifications and USB id.

So, I am still not sure if it would work with this component/evaluation thing using a big disclaimer. If so, I could think about assembling and selling it on my own. But I only know the Chinese services - but have not tried them for assembling yet. I think any service in Germany would be too expensive.. And all the selling/shipping part.. is this easier on eBay? I think I have to look around much more..

Or let Seeed or Itead produce and sell it as ODM. Then they would be responsible for everything!?. But I don't know how flexible this works and how much I would get in the end. I think I try to go this way.. first for assembly..

I think the series on hackaday does not cover the real interesting things on selling a kit/electronic part - so far.
But this is a good hint. I will ask some well known names out there Too bad, that I don't know any kind of incubator here in northern Germany.

Yes, the board is powered by 5V like from the USB port which is directly connected to the MCU. So, I need to burn a bootloader otherwise someone could only program it with a 10 pin SWD Cortex programmer. But thanks for the pid.code - I have not known/found this before. This would be really great

So, still a lot to think about and not enough time.. and I even still don't have a name but things are going on..

My real dream would be to create such an "all in service" to realise all these nice hobby projects out there! Maybe hardware.io will be there one day

Yes, I know that CE marking is even more important than FCC. But CE seems to be easier .. or it's just because your are more in charge for it on your own.

But this is also a question: which countries do you have to deliver to, to reach most of the makers..

The more I think about it the more I think it is impractical. Even if I pay about a 1000€ for a CE marking, I don't know how much I would earn with these boards. So, I want to have three different ones and I can never ever change and improve them anymore or pay again.

I cannot imagine that Sparkfun and the others are getting an approval for all of their MCU boards. Maybe Adafruit with it's feather RFM69 is an exception. I read about the evaluation boards of TI which do not have an approval but a disclaimer in their documentation. Would this be enough? Otherwise they would not do this..

So, lets pretend you have an MCU board like all the others on the market. We assume that it is designed correctly. Is it so hard to get an answer to this? Is it because it's legal and no one can guarantee anything? Is it because it is different from country to country?

Okay... so, my preferred option is so far Seeed Studios. Who has experience with them? Do I circumvent the legal problem by letting them to sell the product because the one who sells or import is in charge of correct approval? Does someone have experiences with this? I know that some well known names like dangerous prototypes are selling their product at Seeed. But if I am only selling my design.. I could have any drawbacks by open source it !?

I would like to spend more time on designing and prototyping as on these questions But I think selling it would be fun too..

Hi everyone,

I'm now in the situation that I want to go life with my little MCU board. But I want to sell these shiny little pieces as I spent almost a year of my spare time on it. And yes, it is still a hobby for me... but who knows where it will go

So, my question is... is here someone who has experiences in producing and selling small batches?

I encounter these challenges so far:

• time, as I will become father
• USB ID for the bootloader (5000$)
• the manufacturing
• selling to many different countries
• legal aspects (like EMF, etc.)

I think the last point is the biggest one which is also the most ignored one !? Even if you don't sell the board with the RF module soldered on, you will not get an exception from the FCC for instance because of the MCU on it...

And as I see, there are some ways to go..

• manually manufacturing (but this is quiet hard for about more than 5 or 10 pieces)
• self made pick and place (still a lot of work and mony - but would be funny)
• manufacturing in China (I think Europe is too expensive - or does someone know a good service?)
• manufacturing and selling in China (like the Seeed propagation)

I'm also quiet interested in the openhardware.io ... but it does not solve the legal situation. Why do you choose PCBWay?

And where and how do I have to get certifications regarding EMF? How much work would that be and how much would it cost? Which countries do I have to bear in mind?

Who has experiences with manufacturing in China? Which one has the best service? (I need all standard pcb colors and 6mil traces/clearance) What does OEM, ODM mean at Seeed propagation? Who is responsible for the sold product? What do you get for a sold piece? I do have non standard components.. do they buy them for me or would this be too expensive?

Many many questions, maybe someone could answer some of them.. or where I can find them. But I have the feeling that I'm not the only one here

And to tell the truth, it is a SAML MCU Most of my time went into the Arduino compatibility...

@scalz No, it is a SAMD so far Arduino integration for SAML would be a really tough challenge - although it is nearly pin compatible but the registers are not. I go for the low power sub-ghz route - so I have never played with an ESP. The real game changer may be the official meshing for BLE..

@scalz Thanks for your thoughts! The cc1310 is really interesting.. may be for the next project
I like the SAM family but I sometimes I have doubts if I have chosen the right mcu. This is especially for the 5000$ for a USB id for the bootloader if I am going to sell some of these things.. May be I could circumvent it with an STM? But I like it to write my own bootloader too
The SAML is really nice and I'm already experimenting with it
So, I will go with the flash option and prepare a second prototype. I hope to get my first panel after this round..

@mfalkvidd I already found a similar library - but cannot find it again. My thoughts were that a full filesystem is really too much overhead for just storing some configuration bytes. But the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Flash is really cheap and with 8Mbit it would be enought - also for wear leveling. The first 2Mbits are reserved for OTA downloads and the rest is formatted with the filesystem. A application could reuse it for data logging or something like this..

I already tried to implement it. But spiffs is not a out of the box library and I'm not quite sure how this hardware specific should be integrated to MySensors..

I also found this for the spark core: https://github.com/m-mcgowan/spark-flashee-eeprom

I am developing a SAMD node and wonder what would be the best memory chip to fullfill the following requirements:

• the ability to safe application data like the MySensors configurations and save states
• OTA update
• good life time
• not too expensive

The internal EEPROM emulation is not a solution. It has only 50.000 write cycles and minimum 4kb erase pages.

So, what do you think about it? The SAMD is getting more and more around..

1. My first thought was to put a flash on it like on the moteino. But I would not get MySensors up and running because of the very big erase pages (although I could double the space - flash is cheap - and write an API which enables me to write single bytes with wear leveling in mind). This needs adaptations to MySensors but only in the hardware specific part.

2. I could get a good small EEPROM and write / adapt the bootloader to load a new rom over the air. The space for the bootloader is not an issue (8kb or may be 16kb). But the bootloader would get more and more complex. It would need configurations, more frequent updates because of changes or bugs and it could even get MySensors specific!? This also needs adaptations to MySensors - but theses are already work in progress ??

3. I could also use a 2Mbit EEPROM to store the OTA rom and application data. But this one would be much more expensive (like about three times of a flash) and needs adaptations to MySensors too to safe the OTA rom in an EEPROM and not flash. Adapting the bootloader would not be an issue for me - I already did it.

4. The internal EEPROM for OTA updates is not sufficient due to the max of 16kb - so far for the official emulation / lock. But one could cut the internal flash into halfs and use the upper one for the OTA download. The bootloader, the linker script and even the region lock could take care of this memory border. This might be okay for the 256k variant but not for the smaller ones !?

So, many options.. and I'm not sure which way to go.. may be I tend to option 2?