Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?
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@Larson You're doing the right thing by getting the PPK2. It will do 99% of what you want, and much more easily than an oscilloscope.
By the way, in case anyone is interested, there are a couple of reasons why a direct-to-oscilloscope connection beats hooking a typical 1X/10X oscilloscope probe up to, say, a uCurrent Gold or TinyCurrent. The first is that, obviously, there's less noise involved because of the short connection. The second reason is far less obvious, though, which is that the typical 1X/10X oscilloscope probes make for fairly lousy 1X connnections. For measuring small voltages on a 1X connection, you're better off using regular coax or, better still, a direct connection and eliminate the coax altogether. Why? Well, the TL;DR is that oscilloscope probes are optimized for use as 10X (which really meas divide by 10), as explained in the EEVLOG video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiAmER1OJh4
Meanwhile.... I've been trying to get Channel Activity Detection to work on the SX1280, but so far no joy. In some sense it's its own mode, because it "supposedly" times out automatically and returns to Idle mode after a fixed number of symbol periods that's set by SetCadParams. So, I'm puzzled as to what's going on and will have to take a deeper dive to figure this one out. Unfortunately, the library does not support CAD, so there's no working example to start from. There have been some alternative libraries posted on github, so I'll see if they shed any light on how to get CAD working.
@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Meanwhile.... I've been trying to get Channel Activity Detection to work on the SX1280, but so far no joy.
Is there a CAD register that can be polled? In the SX1280 datasheet section “11.6.8 SetCAD” there is discussion of a CadDone IRQ. Maybe that can be used outside of the library? Maybe with its own interrupt? It looks to be bit 13 of the IRQ Register per table 11-73. I’ve never played with these radios but have found other devices (simpler devices) to be register friendly. Most of the references to CAD are in section 11. You, no doubt, have already been there. If so, I leave the comment for others.
[edit: on second read I see you have already been to section 11 with your comment on SetCadParams. Hmmm... wish I knew more. I'll play with it when I get set-up.]
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@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Meanwhile.... I've been trying to get Channel Activity Detection to work on the SX1280, but so far no joy.
Is there a CAD register that can be polled? In the SX1280 datasheet section “11.6.8 SetCAD” there is discussion of a CadDone IRQ. Maybe that can be used outside of the library? Maybe with its own interrupt? It looks to be bit 13 of the IRQ Register per table 11-73. I’ve never played with these radios but have found other devices (simpler devices) to be register friendly. Most of the references to CAD are in section 11. You, no doubt, have already been there. If so, I leave the comment for others.
[edit: on second read I see you have already been to section 11 with your comment on SetCadParams. Hmmm... wish I knew more. I'll play with it when I get set-up.]
@Larson said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Meanwhile.... I've been trying to get Channel Activity Detection to work on the SX1280, but so far no joy.
Is there a CAD register that can be polled? In the SX1280 datasheet section “11.6.8 SetCAD” there is discussion of a CadDone IRQ. Maybe that can be used outside of the library? Maybe with its own interrupt? It looks to be bit 13 of the IRQ Register per table 11-73. I’ve never played with these radios but have found other devices (simpler devices) to be register friendly. Most of the references to CAD are in section 11. You, no doubt, have already been there. If so, I leave the comment for others.
[edit: on second read I see you have already been to section 11 with your comment on SetCadParams. Hmmm... wish I knew more. I'll play with it when I get set-up.]
Yeah, I'd say the Semtech SX1280 architecture is quite different than a lot of previous Semtech chips, which, you're right, in prior times were very register oriented. There still are some registers, but for SX1280 Semtech adopted a less transparent op-code architecture where you can issue commands--but in some cases there's no way to verify whether the command "sticks" like there is with a register oriented architecture, where you can always read-back the register to confirm that what you think you wrote to a register was actually written exactly as you wrote it. This is making troubleshooting relatively hard, because the chip has some internal states that you can no longer read like you could with a more register oriented architecture. Instead, you send an op-code over SPI, and maybe some parameters to go with it (the type and number of which can vary), which you "hope" works. I don't like it at all, because, among other things, it assumes that the documentation is 100% complete and flawless--and documentation never is. In particular, the SX1280 datasheet never gives the exact protocol for launching CAD, and whatever that protocol is, I seemingly haven't found it yet, despite testing numerous possibilities--though I may have gotten close. And in a system with more than one SPI device, what happens if there's some conflict in your SPI communication? How do you ever unravel what it is if there's no way to verify? Seems like heartache waiting to happen. I don't understand why the opcode system is thought to be better. Anyone know?
Anyhow, Stuart's Projects never implemented CAD, and internally I'm finding it makes, IMHO, some seemingly improper assumptions about which IRQ's are assigned to which DIO's in how it operates. That makes it brittle. That's something one just can't know when looking purely at a library's veneer. Anyway, the good news is that late last night I found a different, more general library which claims to have a working SX1280 CAD example, so I'll be giving it a test drive soon. https://github.com/jgromes/RadioLib It's not radiohead, but it's a similarly ambitious library project that spans multiple different kinds of radios and multiple different kinds of MCUs. If the CAD demo code works, then I'll adopt the new library and drop Stuart's Projects. If nothing else, I admire the authors ambition to be the one library to rule them all. As I hate changing libraries, I truly hope this is "the One" library that can do that. :-)
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Well, the Radiolib CAD example compiles and runs, and it nominally looks like it should:
I just need to introduce a separate LoRa transmitter to the vicinity to confirm that the detection actually works. I'm guessing the LoRa parameters have to be an exact match (SF at minimum and maybe other parameters as well). Then, sending a long enough string--and maybe reducing delays in the CAD detector loop--should lead to a detection.
[Edit: Yup, I tried running the generic SX1280 Radiolib transmit example, with delay removed, and the CAD detector easily detects it. It works! :-) :-) :-) ]
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Since the Barebones v001 is, after all, a test platform, I'm going to assemble a mote and SX1280 adapter that use Dupont headers. The reason is that the 8 sense pins on the PPK2 work with Dupont wires, and I don't see an easy way to make those work with machine pin headers. No change in the PCBs is required. @Larson You may want to assemble your motes this way from the get-go.
By the way, can anyone here recommend where I can buy "good" Dupont wiring and connectors? If I buy from China, I seem to often get very loose-goosey connections.
P.S. I could be wrong, but the RadioHead library seems to have stopped progressing. None of the newer LoRa chips are in any of its examples. Too bad, as it was a very progressive library in its day. That leaves RadioLib as the library to rule them all. However, it has a very different overarching paradigm than, say, StuartsLibrary, which was easier to grasp.
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Since the Barebones v001 is, after all, a test platform, I'm going to assemble a mote and SX1280 adapter that use Dupont headers. The reason is that the 8 sense pins on the PPK2 work with Dupont wires, and I don't see an easy way to make those work with machine pin headers. No change in the PCBs is required. @Larson You may want to assemble your motes this way from the get-go.
By the way, can anyone here recommend where I can buy "good" Dupont wiring and connectors? If I buy from China, I seem to often get very loose-goosey connections.
P.S. I could be wrong, but the RadioHead library seems to have stopped progressing. None of the newer LoRa chips are in any of its examples. Too bad, as it was a very progressive library in its day. That leaves RadioLib as the library to rule them all. However, it has a very different overarching paradigm than, say, StuartsLibrary, which was easier to grasp.
@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Dupont headers
My plan is to use female headers on the Barebones board, then to use doubled long-legged male headers on the SX1280 adapter board like these from Digikey. It all stacks together and bed of nails will stick out the top of it all. That way the PPK2 Dupont females can nicely plug onto the any of the protruding males in the stack that I select to use as a signal or interrupt. Again, I risk a bed of 16 inadvertent antennae with all that metal in the air. I can always snip-off the pins I don’t use. PPK2 is expected on Monday!
I spent the day shopping for parts at Aliexpress, Digikey, and Amazon. I found some 328P's at Aliexpress. Could be some time for the Aliexpress parts (SX1280 module). In the meantime I'll be learning KiCAD. I'm hoping that Eagle and KiCAD might allow file swapping as Eagle is familiar ground for me. Or ... I could just take the easy path and go directly to OSHPark since you have made it so easy.
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@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Dupont headers
My plan is to use female headers on the Barebones board, then to use doubled long-legged male headers on the SX1280 adapter board like these from Digikey. It all stacks together and bed of nails will stick out the top of it all. That way the PPK2 Dupont females can nicely plug onto the any of the protruding males in the stack that I select to use as a signal or interrupt. Again, I risk a bed of 16 inadvertent antennae with all that metal in the air. I can always snip-off the pins I don’t use. PPK2 is expected on Monday!
I spent the day shopping for parts at Aliexpress, Digikey, and Amazon. I found some 328P's at Aliexpress. Could be some time for the Aliexpress parts (SX1280 module). In the meantime I'll be learning KiCAD. I'm hoping that Eagle and KiCAD might allow file swapping as Eagle is familiar ground for me. Or ... I could just take the easy path and go directly to OSHPark since you have made it so easy.
@Larson said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Dupont headers
My plan is to use female headers on the Barebones board, then to use doubled long-legged male headers on the SX1280 adapter board like these from Digikey. It all stacks together and bed of nails will stick out the top of it all. That way the PPK2 Dupont females can nicely plug onto the any of the protruding males in the stack that I select to use as a signal or interrupt. Again, I risk a bed of 16 inadvertent antennae with all that metal in the air. I can always snip-off the pins I don’t use. PPK2 is expected on Monday!
Somehow I had gotten it in my head to use extra long female headers (such as these, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071GTP5V6/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, or similar) on the adapter board and then regular female headers on the basic atmega328p PCB. Maybe it's a wash?
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@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Dupont headers
My plan is to use female headers on the Barebones board, then to use doubled long-legged male headers on the SX1280 adapter board like these from Digikey. It all stacks together and bed of nails will stick out the top of it all. That way the PPK2 Dupont females can nicely plug onto the any of the protruding males in the stack that I select to use as a signal or interrupt. Again, I risk a bed of 16 inadvertent antennae with all that metal in the air. I can always snip-off the pins I don’t use. PPK2 is expected on Monday!
I spent the day shopping for parts at Aliexpress, Digikey, and Amazon. I found some 328P's at Aliexpress. Could be some time for the Aliexpress parts (SX1280 module). In the meantime I'll be learning KiCAD. I'm hoping that Eagle and KiCAD might allow file swapping as Eagle is familiar ground for me. Or ... I could just take the easy path and go directly to OSHPark since you have made it so easy.
@Larson KiCAD 6 allows for importing Eagle projects right from within KiCAD 6 itself. Not sure what options, if any, might exist for exporting to Eagle. I think you'll like KiCAD 6. It's pretty easy to pick it up--much easier than earlier versions. I previously used Diptrace, because it was so easy, but I've since moved completely over to KiCAD 6 because it's just as easy, but also more widely supported in terms of parts libraries. Also, unlike Diptrace, it makes sharing projects a snap--just create an archive (literally a one menu click operation), and share the resulting zip file.
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@Larson said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Dupont headers
My plan is to use female headers on the Barebones board, then to use doubled long-legged male headers on the SX1280 adapter board like these from Digikey. It all stacks together and bed of nails will stick out the top of it all. That way the PPK2 Dupont females can nicely plug onto the any of the protruding males in the stack that I select to use as a signal or interrupt. Again, I risk a bed of 16 inadvertent antennae with all that metal in the air. I can always snip-off the pins I don’t use. PPK2 is expected on Monday!
Somehow I had gotten it in my head to use extra long female headers (such as these, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071GTP5V6/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, or similar) on the adapter board and then regular female headers on the basic atmega328p PCB. Maybe it's a wash?
@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Somehow I had gotten it in my head...
So many ways to cook an egg. The pleasure is in eating it. I'll take a picture of my wedding-cake-of-a-board stack when I finish. It may not be until July at my pace.
Re KiCAD: I look forward to trying. Recently JLCPCB made me learn EasyEDA and it really went well. Learning Eagle took me a week the first time, 2 days the second time, and still... I have to retrain. That is the joy of it all, right?
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By the way, I've recently been reporting some other progress on the SX1280 on my radio-comparison thread: https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/11954/most-reliable-best-radio/27?_=1654402718278 For things that are both battery operated and subject to remote control, the importance of being able to quickly wake them up at a moments notice, but with minimal ongoing energy drain, is an important topic. Examples: key finder fobs, remotely opening/closing blinds at the push of a button, etc.
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By the way, I've recently been reporting some other progress on the SX1280 on my radio-comparison thread: https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/11954/most-reliable-best-radio/27?_=1654402718278 For things that are both battery operated and subject to remote control, the importance of being able to quickly wake them up at a moments notice, but with minimal ongoing energy drain, is an important topic. Examples: key finder fobs, remotely opening/closing blinds at the push of a button, etc.
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From the perspective of having some kind of general purpose platform--not just for testing but as a "go-to" for general use--it would be nice to have some kind of project box or enclosure of some kind for it. That would prevent things in the environment from pushing up against the electronics/PCB and possibly shorting it out. Anyone have any ideas on what form that should take? There's always the option of custom 3D printing something, but if there were a box of the right size already out there, that would be much easier. In that case one could customize the PCB to fit it precisely instead of 3D printing a box to precisely fit the PCB. Having a nice enclosure is one of the things that typically separates store-bought sensors from hobbyist projects.
By the way, the SHT45 TH sensor that I mentioned in the OP is now available on mouser. Unfortunately, it seems they nearly doubled their asking price over what they had earlier projected, so that's a bit of a disappointment. I guess these days a lot of chips are marked up due to the widespread shortages going on.... The chip itself is quite small, but it only has four landing pads, so I'm thinking that hand soldering it should be manageable. A simple adapter board, like this one for the SHT40, would allow it to easily fit the platform:
because the platform's pinout already anticipates adding up to two I2C devices without any fuss, like thus:
FYI, I updated the project page with a bunch of photos. -
From the perspective of having some kind of general purpose platform--not just for testing but as a "go-to" for general use--it would be nice to have some kind of project box or enclosure of some kind for it. That would prevent things in the environment from pushing up against the electronics/PCB and possibly shorting it out. Anyone have any ideas on what form that should take? There's always the option of custom 3D printing something, but if there were a box of the right size already out there, that would be much easier. In that case one could customize the PCB to fit it precisely instead of 3D printing a box to precisely fit the PCB. Having a nice enclosure is one of the things that typically separates store-bought sensors from hobbyist projects.
By the way, the SHT45 TH sensor that I mentioned in the OP is now available on mouser. Unfortunately, it seems they nearly doubled their asking price over what they had earlier projected, so that's a bit of a disappointment. I guess these days a lot of chips are marked up due to the widespread shortages going on.... The chip itself is quite small, but it only has four landing pads, so I'm thinking that hand soldering it should be manageable. A simple adapter board, like this one for the SHT40, would allow it to easily fit the platform:
because the platform's pinout already anticipates adding up to two I2C devices without any fuss, like thus:
FYI, I updated the project page with a bunch of photos.@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
Anyone have any ideas on what form that should take?
Looks great! I’ve had good luck at Aliexpress with a variety of boxes like these. Some boxes have mounting lugs on the bottom. Your board has no space for mounting holes. I could help with the redesign??? Then I'd use stand-offs to get to the lugs and suspend the batteries in the air off the bottom. The antenna could be curled inside the box, but I've found that to have a negative impact (probably the polairity thing.
[Edit: Forgot to say that I've thrown in the little bags of desiccants for good measure. I find them in my pill bottles.]
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From the perspective of having some kind of general purpose platform--not just for testing but as a "go-to" for general use--it would be nice to have some kind of project box or enclosure of some kind for it. That would prevent things in the environment from pushing up against the electronics/PCB and possibly shorting it out. Anyone have any ideas on what form that should take? There's always the option of custom 3D printing something, but if there were a box of the right size already out there, that would be much easier. In that case one could customize the PCB to fit it precisely instead of 3D printing a box to precisely fit the PCB. Having a nice enclosure is one of the things that typically separates store-bought sensors from hobbyist projects.
By the way, the SHT45 TH sensor that I mentioned in the OP is now available on mouser. Unfortunately, it seems they nearly doubled their asking price over what they had earlier projected, so that's a bit of a disappointment. I guess these days a lot of chips are marked up due to the widespread shortages going on.... The chip itself is quite small, but it only has four landing pads, so I'm thinking that hand soldering it should be manageable. A simple adapter board, like this one for the SHT40, would allow it to easily fit the platform:
because the platform's pinout already anticipates adding up to two I2C devices without any fuss, like thus:
FYI, I updated the project page with a bunch of photos.@NeverDie I've made progress. I've ordered these items (mostly radios):
SX1278
SX1280
nrf24012mg E01's
nrf2401+
Bunch of antenna parts
TPL5110
Atmega328's
I cannot find any SX1262's and after your other post ("Best") I see that this is the darling to have. Any idea of where to find some?Fun to see the photos of the current meter in sleep action on your other post.
One addition I would like to make to your boards is a GPS chip. The idea would be to walk about in a field and collect RSSI and SNR data. Combining these elements would give a pretty good picture of signal vs the 2-dimensions of GPS data - for each radio and different modulations, spreading factors... Trouble here is that there are too many parameters to play with. I see Excel graphics coming into play. I have no experience with GPS, although I own a few of the chips.
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The ones I've tried so far are these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/202574135410?hash=item2f2a5c0072:g:H9EAAOSwLuldcige Maybe it was luck, but the seller delivered fairly quickly, and they were very well packed. They allegedly contain TCXO's, so that presumably makes them better than those moules which don't have TCXO's.
I just today received these Ra-01SH, but haven't tried them yet: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800961841511.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.20411802pmZPEx&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt
I have custom adapter boards for them though. At the time I ordered them in April they were just $3.31 each, but now the same seller is asking $4.24. Delivery time was pretty long (longer than originally promised). So, you may want to shop around. If this is the new market rate, then I would go for the Dorji boards instead, because for the money you at least get TCXO's with the Dorji's, and they allegedly passed FCC. On the other hand, I've had good luck with Ai-Thinker in the past.There are some other brands out there as well, but these are the only two for which I made adapter boards.
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@NeverDie I've made progress. I've ordered these items (mostly radios):
SX1278
SX1280
nrf24012mg E01's
nrf2401+
Bunch of antenna parts
TPL5110
Atmega328's
I cannot find any SX1262's and after your other post ("Best") I see that this is the darling to have. Any idea of where to find some?Fun to see the photos of the current meter in sleep action on your other post.
One addition I would like to make to your boards is a GPS chip. The idea would be to walk about in a field and collect RSSI and SNR data. Combining these elements would give a pretty good picture of signal vs the 2-dimensions of GPS data - for each radio and different modulations, spreading factors... Trouble here is that there are too many parameters to play with. I see Excel graphics coming into play. I have no experience with GPS, although I own a few of the chips.
@Larson I don't know how well GPS location works indoors, but it if somehow does that would be interesting. If it has gotten small enough and cheap enough and low power enough, it would be interesting for clock synchronization as well, though there are other ways of doing that.
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Wow, I just checked, and GPS receivers have really gotten small, especially as compared to 5 years ago. Just 7mmx7mm in size: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Quectel/LG77LIAMD?qs=zW32dvEIR3sKRLNP92tehQ%3D%3D
That's way smaller than the old Adafruit one that I have: https://www.adafruit.com/product/5440
which is gigantic. -
The ones I've tried so far are these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/202574135410?hash=item2f2a5c0072:g:H9EAAOSwLuldcige Maybe it was luck, but the seller delivered fairly quickly, and they were very well packed. They allegedly contain TCXO's, so that presumably makes them better than those moules which don't have TCXO's.
I just today received these Ra-01SH, but haven't tried them yet: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800961841511.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.20411802pmZPEx&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt
I have custom adapter boards for them though. At the time I ordered them in April they were just $3.31 each, but now the same seller is asking $4.24. Delivery time was pretty long (longer than originally promised). So, you may want to shop around. If this is the new market rate, then I would go for the Dorji boards instead, because for the money you at least get TCXO's with the Dorji's, and they allegedly passed FCC. On the other hand, I've had good luck with Ai-Thinker in the past.There are some other brands out there as well, but these are the only two for which I made adapter boards.
@NeverDie Thanks, once again. Done and purchased (4 1262's, and 2 1276's (ra-01SH)). I don't know why google and I couldn't find the1262's, nor Digikey, nor Ali, nor Amazon. So I'm on the slow road. I don't expect you to wait for me but your records in this forum are a standing education for all that follow. I'm sure I'll have observations/questions if you are still there.
Per my GPS thinking: I was thinking outdoors in an open field. I know your objective was through a reinforced footing, across the house, and up a floor. For that environment I would map the house into a grid with surveyor's cord and walk a defined pattern, clicking a button for every grid point I cross. Then I'd go to the yard with the same idea. My wife tells me I'm hard to live with... imagine that.
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@NeverDie Thanks, once again. Done and purchased (4 1262's, and 2 1276's (ra-01SH)). I don't know why google and I couldn't find the1262's, nor Digikey, nor Ali, nor Amazon. So I'm on the slow road. I don't expect you to wait for me but your records in this forum are a standing education for all that follow. I'm sure I'll have observations/questions if you are still there.
Per my GPS thinking: I was thinking outdoors in an open field. I know your objective was through a reinforced footing, across the house, and up a floor. For that environment I would map the house into a grid with surveyor's cord and walk a defined pattern, clicking a button for every grid point I cross. Then I'd go to the yard with the same idea. My wife tells me I'm hard to live with... imagine that.
@Larson According to AI-thinker, the Ra-01SH is an SX1262, not a 1276. The SX1262's are more capable, whereas the 1276's are older generation. https://docs.ai-thinker.com/_media/lora/docs/ra-01sh_specification.pdf AFAIK, the two adafruit modules I got for trial purposes were SX1276's.
Since you'll be trying more than just the Ebyte module, let me know if you'd like me to post the other adapter boards also (e.g. for the Dorji SX1262, the Ra-01SH, and the nRF24L01). The work is already done.
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Wow, I just checked, and GPS receivers have really gotten small, especially as compared to 5 years ago. Just 7mmx7mm in size: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Quectel/LG77LIAMD?qs=zW32dvEIR3sKRLNP92tehQ%3D%3D
That's way smaller than the old Adafruit one that I have: https://www.adafruit.com/product/5440
which is gigantic.@NeverDie said in Anyone using/tried the E28-2G4M27S 2.4Ghz LoRa SX1280 27dB module?:
That's way smaller than the old Adafruit one that I have: https://www.adafruit.com/product/5440
which is gigantic.At some point, like this, bigger is better for me. Imagine the size of the GPS in modern phones. I prefer the Adafruit type that has breakout pins and 'hold-my-hand' tutorials. We live in a golden age. I have to go find my GPS boards that i think I have. It has been some time and I've always wanted some purpose. This may be the time.
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Definitely agree that it's the tutorials that make the adafruit hardware worthwhile, typically much more so than the hardware itself.
