Sensebender Micro

[korttoma]

What would be the best option to add an external temperature sensor to the Sensbender Micro?
Another Si7021? Any thoughts?
I could not find any other I2C temperature sensor with the same voltage range to a reasonable price.

[kalle]

@hek said:

Just ordered 6 for myself. I wouldn't want to miss out on the first batch. Only around 100 left.

Talked to Itead today. They had to source the ATSHA204A from overseas and will start production when they arrive.

bought also 3 pieces :-)

[mvader]

I picked up 3 and 5 radios

[hetbeest]

Just ordered two to start with ;)

[Dean]

Hope this isn't too silly a question.... The temp/humidity sensing, that works 'out of the box' without requiring me actually connecting these sensors, right?

And another question, would it be possible to turn the temp/hum function off and just have a motion sensor connected which would never do anything unless it sensed movement and then send a message to the gateway?

I've been flat out at work for a couple months so I've been away from this for a while... :-)

[tbowmo]

@Dean

It will be programmed by the factory, with the "Sensebender micro" sketch, https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/blob/master/libraries/MySensors/examples/SensebenderMicro/SensebenderMicro.ino

So it's plug'n'play as a sensor with temperature and humidity. You could always dump another sketch to the unit, if you want to use it for something else.

[gol]

I have also ordered a couple of boards to be able to evaulate them as soon as possible.

Just a question:

• What is the expected lifetime of the batteries if you use 2 AA batteries, the default preloaded sketch and reports the temp and humidity values once per minute?

[jeylites]

Out of curiosity, can over the air updates be implemented on Arduino Nano? I'm going to get 3 to put Sense to the test. :smiley:

[hek]

@gol

It was measured by @blacey to 0.05 mA while sleeping and 0.95 mA during transmit. @tbowmo got some higher figures but they were most probably related to running a NRF24L01+ clone.

@jeylites
Yes, have a look at the bootloader here:
https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/tree/master/MYSBootloader
You can test OTA updates using the MYSController. It overwrites program memory in-place during boot. If communication goes down or fails during this process the node won't boot up again (you have to upload a new sketch while connected to you computer).

The sensbender has a external flash which means we can safely store the OTA firmware while normal sketch is running. When everything has been downloaded the DualOptiboot moves new firmware from flash to program memory during bootup. The code for this has been written (in development branch) but has not been tested yet (I failed handsoldering them :() .

[Dean]

Thankyou @tbowmo

[tekka]

@hek said:

@jeylites
Yes, have a look at the bootloader here:
https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/tree/master/MYSBootloader
You can test OTA updates using the MYSController. It overwrites program memory in-place during boot. If communication goes down or fails during this process the node won't boot up again (you have to upload a new sketch while connected to you computer).

If the communication fails, the bootloader will remain "bootloading", i.e. will try to fetch a new firmware from the controller until the CRC matches - no need to upload a sketch via computer.

MYSBootloader 2.0 will have SHA signing implemented: for those nodes without ATSHA204 which need signed OTA updates :)

[jeylites]

@tekka said:

Yes, have a look at the bootloader here:
https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/tree/master/MYSBootloader

Do I have to include those files into my sketch or just install MYS on windows and it will auto detect? In other words, do I have to make any changes to the sketch?

Is there any tutorial on MYS implementation?

[hek]

@jeylites

You should read up on what a bootloader is and how to install it.
http://www.arduino.cc/en/Hacking/Bootloader?from=Tutorial.Bootloader
Might be good to start another thread if you have more MYSController/bootloader questions,

[marceltrapman]

@hek said:

Might be good to start another thread

Nicely put :)

I would say 'please start another thread because this will never be found again and will help other as well'...

Just my 2 cents.

[rvendrame]

is 3V the absolute maximum or 3.3V is acceptable to power it? For non-battery operated sensors, it may be easier to find a 3.3V regulators instead 3V (at least in my country).

[tbowmo]

@rvendrame

absolute maximum voltage is 3.6V, above that you'll let the magic smoke out of the following components:

• Si7021
• external flash
• radio module.

Only the atmega328 and atsha204 will survive.

[rvendrame]

@tbowmo said:

absolute maximum voltage is 3.6V

But will all components work properly on 3.3V?

[tbowmo]

@rvendrame

Yes they would

[rvendrame]

@tbowmo thx a lot!

[doblanch]

I didn't find mention of it. What is the expected battery life ?
I was going to replace AA by CR123 to gain in space.
thkx

[hek]

I posted some measurements above. Hard to say a definite battery life expectation. Depends on many factors such as battery quality, send frequency and what external sensors you attach.

[doblanch]

@hek I computed that sending a value every minute with a 10 seconds of communication every minute (wakeup), the autonomy for a single 3V 1500mA CR123 lithium battery is around 1 year (312 Days). Around 2 year for a dual Lithium AA, I guess.
If there is 5 second of wakeup every minute, it's 500 days for a single cell CR123.
Purely theorical... but it gives an order of magnetude.

[doblanch]

@hek Of course it's difficult to predict, it's just to have an order of magnitude, specially if I want to use a CRV123 3V battery. I don't want to change it every 2 months. One year should be good.

[Hausner]

Would this work with a 3,7V Li-Ion 18650 cell? Because I've got a S... load from old laptops

[korttoma]

@Hausner said:

Would this work with a 3,7V Li-Ion 18650 cell? Because I've got a S... load from old laptops

@tbowmo said:

absolute maximum voltage is 3.6V, above that you'll let the magic smoke out of the following components:

• Si7021
• external flash
• radio module.

Only the atmega328 and atsha204 will survive.

Refering to what @tbowmo said and if you measure your batteries you will find that they will give more than 4V when fully charged I came to the conclusion that this is not a good idea.

However if someone has a good proposal for how these kind of batteries are best used with the Sensebender Micro I would like to know also.

[Mickey]

However if someone has a good proposal for how these kind of batteries are best used with the Sensebender Micro I would like to know also.

mcp1702 for example...

[gregl]

Really nice board!

I think it would be good to have ( ver 2? ) a space for a voltage reg. Perhaps as an option, just put the pads on the pcb and user can add regulator if they need to.
This way larger batteries such as the 18650 cells could be used.

[jeylites]

I think version 2 should have a voltage regulator and about the same number of outputs as Arduino Nano.

[tbowmo]

@jeylites

It's designed to be a simple, minimal, small sensor node.. Operating from 2xAA batteries. So there is no need for voltage regulator onboard, I know this both simpilfies the circuit, but also makes some limitations on the powersource.

What you are asking for, is an Arduino Nano, this has voltage regulator, and the number of IOs that you want :)

[jeylites]

@tbowmo I have nothing against Sensebender Micro. I just feel there should be Sensebender full size version to facilitate the number of I/O one may need.

[gloob]

So the shipment will start today for the preorders? I'm really excited to receive the new sensors.

[tbowmo]

@gloob

Yes, they should.

(Just checked.. 177 sensebender micro boards pre-ordered as I write this)

[korttoma]

It would be nice to know how many devices has been preordered.

[Hoffan]

I must ask one thing.

Which Radiochannel are there as default in the code in the sensebender Micro??

[hek]

@Hoffan

It comes with the default from MyConfig (76)
https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/blob/master/libraries/MySensors/MyConfig.h

[tbowmo]

@korttoma said:

It would be nice to know how many devices has been preordered.

see the post above your latest? ;) I have just written it ther :)

[blacey]

@tbowmo Well, the fact that you can't order any more means there were at least 200 pre-ordered, right?

[hek]

Well, first batch was 200 units (180 sold). Guess they want a few spare once if they have failures during test.

They are preparing for batch two but the Si7021-A20-GM humidity sensor was a bit hard to source at the moment. Will be solved soon. Not sure why preorders was disabled though, will check.

[BulldogLowell]

@hek

Is the MySensors API/library set being updated to include the code needed for the on-board thermometer/humidity sensors for the Sensebender Micro, or will we be using another library?

I have not ordered any of these but was considering them for an upcoming project to measure temperature/humidity.

[hek]

Is the MySensors API/library set being updated to include the code needed for the on-board thermometer/humidity sensors for the Sensebender Micro,

No, it won't be included in the core MySensors library.

https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/tree/master/libraries/SI7021

[Dwalt]

Has anyone who preordered these boards received any update (shipping confirmation) from ITead? Originally their website estimated May 20 ship date.

[gloob]

I did a preorder for the items but did not get any new information about the shipment.
The status of the items is still "processing".

[hek]

I've asked Itead for an update. But they're on china time so hopefully we'll get reply in a few hours.

[tbowmo]

There is an update on iteadstudios facebook page, that they have finished assembling today, and will proceed to testing tomorrow.

So hopefully they will start shipping soon.

[RJ_Make]

That's good news!

[jerry]

Guys, this is Jerry from ITEAD.

Here's the update of Project Mysensor Micro:
184 units are produced. ..for we can only find 184 Si7021-A20-GM1 all over the world.

We finished the test today, 176 units passed the test. The 8 units should be fixed tomorrow.

We will pack the boards tomorrow and arrange shipment this week.

Pre-order for batch 2 will be released when the Si7021 is available.

[tbowmo]

Thanks for the update Jerry.

[tbowmo]

Got a shipment notification for my 5 units :) exciting

[hek]

My six units is also on the way!

[Stric]

3 coming..

[kalle]

my 3 boards also :-D

[nutcracker]

Yep, my units are on the way too...!!
(likely to be here before my iWatch turns up! :-))

[hetbeest]

Same here

[5546dug]

A message was sent to me also --- they are on the way!!

[Dwalt]

I am curious where the name came from, I understand the 'sense' and 'micro', but what is the origin of the ' bender'?

[tbowmo]

@Dwalt

We had a long discussion about the name, if I remember correctly it is because we are bending the sensor world :) right @hek ?

[hek]

Haha, yeah..

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bend?s=t

verb (used with object), bent or (Archaic) bended; bending-

1. to force (an object, especially a long or thin one) from a straight form into a curved or angular one, or from a curved or angular form into some different form:
   to bend an iron rod into a hoop.
2. to direct or turn in a particular direction:
   to bend one's energies to the task.
3. to cause to submit or yield:
   to bend someone to one's will.
4. to modify or relax (restrictions, regulations, etc.) temporarily or in certain circumstances:
   to bend the rules.
5. to incline mentally (usually followed by to or toward):
   bending his thoughts back toward his childhood.
6. to pull back the string of (a bow or the like) in preparation for shooting.
7. Nautical. to fasten.

So was NOT the alcoholic, chain-smoking, kleptomaniac robot on Futurama we had in mind. Unless you really want to build it using a few sensebender-modules :)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bender

[hautomate]

@jerry said:

184 units are produced. ..for we can only find 184 Si7021-A20-GM1 all over the world.

Mouser has 3,091 in stock for immediate shipment, though probably not at a price you're interested in ;)

[hek]

@hautomate said:

3,091 in stock

That's the old A10. It would probably work but A20 has some firmware fixes and more tests performed on it.
I have nothing to say about the price. It is the same as for A20.. As you can see it is the most expensive part on the micro board (30% of it's price).

[hautomate]

@hek, thanks for the correction. I didn't try very hard, but here's 75 ready to ship.

[RJ_Make]

Notification for my 5... Yeaaaaa Haaaaaaw.. :dancer:

[tbowmo]

@hautomate

They are building them in batches of 200 units, so 75 si7021's don't get them far.

We are trying to solve things at the moment though.

[hek]

Preorders for batch #2 has been opened now. Estimated delivery mid June.

[gloob]

I will wait for the first 5 items until they receive before I continue ordering new ones or is there no plan to continue selling more items after the second batch?

[tbowmo]

@gloob

We'll continue selling, as long as there is a demand for it :)

[gloob]

I believe in your product and ordered 5 new ones. The house has too many rooms.

[Stric]

Got mine today. Haven't tried them yet.

[hek]

@Stric
Nice! Where do you live? Wonder when it will show up in Sweden....

[Stric]

Sweden :) Umeå/Täfteå to be specific.. Neighborhood next to your brother..

[hek]

Sweet.. hope it arrives before the weekend then.

[HenkeP]

@Stric Did you get a "avi", or did they end up in the mail-box directly? I got a "avi" today but it might be also for any of the constant inflow of stuff from aliexpress... Can't wait for my 4 pieces Sensebender to show up! :)

[Stric]

@HenkeP Got an avi, RsomethingsomethingHK I believe.. The box said "10 printed circuit boards", which is a funny way of saying "3 printed circuit boards + some stuff".

[gloob]

Were you able to track the items? My tracking number says that it left Hong Kong yesterday to my destination (Germany). Can't wait to get the first batch into hands.

[gol]

I can confirm that the first sensebenders now also have arrived in Gothenburg, Sweden.

[gol]

My first Senseboard is now Up and Running. Have even tested to reinstall the sketch. No issues so far. Thanx for this product.

[tbowmo]

@gol

Nice to hear :)

I have to wait until Monday, before I can pick mine up at the post office.. (they tried to deliver it today, when I wasn't at home, so just left me a note that I could pick it up on Monday)

[marceltrapman]

@gol said:

My first Senseboard is now Up and Running. Have even tested to reinstall the sketch. No issues so far. Thanx for this product.

This is not a 'product', this is pure fun ;)

[HenkeP]

Picked up my four devices yesterday and two of them are up and running using the pre-loaded sketch and it works like a charm!

But i have a question regarding the battery level reporting, I can see the following in the code:

// Battery voltage is repported as child sensorId 199, as well as battery percentage (Internal message)

But it seems to only present temp and hum as sensors and no voltage:

gw.present(CHILD_ID_TEMP,S_TEMP);
gw.present(CHILD_ID_HUM,S_HUM);

What is it i'm failing to understand? I just setup Domoticz and in there I have not yet got a good way of presenting historical battery levels, it just shows the latest internal battery level message. To get a better understanding on the battery life performance it is necessary to be able to create a graph. I thought I could use the voltage level for this but I can only see the internal message :-(

Thanks,
Henrik

[tbowmo]

@HenkeP

That's a leftover from my initial battery monitoring code. It could be re-implemented quite easily, in the battery reporting routine, you could report actual voltage measured, as an extra sensor

(I actually thought that I had removed everything related to the old monitoring code)

Edited

I have updated the sketch for sensebender micro, to include sending battery voltage measurements as a sensor value. This is not enabled by default though, and people need to recompile it, with a #define uncommented.

do a pull from mysensors github, to get the latest sourcecode

[twosh]

@hek said:

That's the old A10. It would probably work but A20 has some firmware fixes and more tests performed on it.
I have nothing to say about the price. It is the same as for A20.. As you can see it is the most expensive part on the micro board (30% of it's price).

Would you consider a Sensebender Micro Light-version without this component? i mean, if it's 30 % of the price, not available and not imo a critical component (you could always add your own humidity/temp sensors), there are quite a few reasons why a light version would be tempting. At least to me. :)

Cheers,
Tim

[sundberg84]

@twosh @hek A Sensebender Light would be great is my opinion. Im not looking for these advances futures, only a simple and as cheap as possible board to run on batteries and a temp sensor. Br Andreas

[tbowmo]

@twosh, @sundberg84

Well, it's a temperature sensor, and humidity in one :). If you are going to use other sensor types (DS1820, or cheaper humidity/temperature sensors), you also need to have a booster circuit, in order to boost battery voltage to 3V minimum (as they don't operate on voltages lower than that).

So in the end, you'll buy both booster circuits, and sensors, which will be close to the same price as the Si7021 in the end, to get the same functionality.

And since you (probably) are using a cheap booster circuit from ebay, the battery would not last that long, so you buy lot's of batteries to feed the booster circuitry :)

But when that's said, we could ask itead if they could make a "barebone" unit, without the Si7021 mounted, and then provide a quote on that type of sensor.

[sundberg84]

@tbowmo

Thank you for your answer tbowmo - i see your logic.
But if you want to use it with say, light, motion or another sensor with this board - do I need a booster?

[hawk_2050]

I'll add my voice to the requests for a 'lite' version of the Sensebender Micro board. My ideal would be to provide an option without the A20 secure signing IC placed, but leaving the Si7021 in.

Cheers
Richard

[tbowmo]

@hawk_2050

Well, the atsha204 is only about 0.5$ in price, so the savings will be very little.

@sundberg84
If it's a pure motion sensor then I can see a point in using a light edition. I have requested a quote from itead on a light edition.

[twosh]

@tbowmo It was just a thought I came up with and thought to share my idea and arguments. :)
I think the Sensebender Micro is great especially if you would like to monitor temperatures (which of course many of us wants to), but I just think that a less expensive, light option (that would be available to order... :) ) could appeal to many. Great that you have requested a quote!

[bjornhallberg]

Just as a reference, the boost regulators I did, based on the TPS61221, cost something like $1.7, including the (very small) PCB. The TPS61221 is about $1 out of that cost. And I did not use the cheapest inductor exactly. Plus the cost of small volumes and ordering each component individually from AliExpress.

Don't have any testing equipment, and I haven't done any long term tests, but the prototype I did was perfectly able to run a mysensors node, including the motion detector module, and a small buzzer, on just one AA battery.

Not to say that I also wouldn't like pads for the Si7021 at least. It's a damn fine chip, hence the cost.

I think that in the long run, we should think about some sort of mini shield system where a base board can be extended, so (almost) everyone can get what they want. At the expense of bulkier designs, but it would be a choice for the end-user and everything comes at a cost anyway.

[FotoFieber]

Got mine yesterday (Switzerland)!

I really like the design of the board. Only improvement I wish: integrated NRF24L01+ :-)

[hawk_2050]

@tbowmo, ah, sorry misunderstanding then. I thought it was the atsha204 that was contributing 30% of the cost, but I guess it's the Si7021, which is rather useful to have!

[gloob]

Was anybody able to track the Micros. My tracking said it left HongKong on 04.06.2015 and I am wondering why you already received your items.

[Dirk_H]

@gloob
same here. Has left on 04.06.2015 - no more info. Also on local post service (link below on hk post) no entry.
As I live in Germany and the post is on strike and our customs work with "german gründlichkeit" I dont expect it to arrive too fast...

[hek]

Mine came in this Monday. One of them has been running since.

It is a tracked mail/package so Itead probably has the number somewhere.

[tbowmo]

@hawk_2050 said:

@tbowmo, ah, sorry misunderstanding then. I thought it was the atsha204 that was contributing 30% of the cost, but I guess it's the Si7021, which is rather useful to have!

Yup it's the Si7021.. It's about 5$ in low quantities from Mouser (Think that itead has a better source thouǵh)

[Sparkman]

I received mine today. I would be interested in a lower cost version as well that doesn't include the temp & humidity sensor.

Cheers
Al

[gloob]

Hello,

Can some one measure the real power consumption of the sensebender with the default sketch (humidity, temperature, battery level) running and the nrf24l01 module?

Would like to get an idea of home many µA are used in active mode and how many µA in sleep mode the sensebender is taking.

[5546dug]

Lucky yous, I am still waiting for delivery in Canada.
Looks as though it will be next week as Friday mail has past.

[RJ_Make]

Still waiting here on the East Coast...

[hetbeest]

My two have arrived, up and running in Domoticz as WTGR800 temp + hum.

[filipq]

Jus measured power consumption:

44.66 µA - when sleep
between 11mA and 14mA when transmitting (every minute, default sketch)

I was using my Fluke 287.

[filipq]

and graph...