My Slim 2AA Battery Node

[meddie]

@m26872 said:

Do you "test the arduino alone" using MySensors lib and example sketches?

Yes, on the bredboard is only the atmega 328p. nothing else. Connected to 5v

Using Lowpower lib directly works ok as it seems.

Yes using the LowPower lib i came down to 0.01mA current draw.

Next step would be to connect the nRF24L01+ and run some MySensors lib example.

Ok, i will try it today evening.

Ext fuses 0x07 (BOD disabled) instead of 0x06 (BOD 1.8V) could save you a few uA.
OK, i try this too.

Thank you very much.
Greets Eddie

[meddie]

ok, i tried to burn with 0x07 Fuse. And i tried to power the atmega with 3.3 v and not 5v.
Now i came down to 4µA in sleep mode with the lowpower sketch.
When i try to flash a mysensors sketch the the atmega has a current draw 1mA.

[m26872]

@meddie It's still unclear whether you've got the nRF connected and the MySensors example and library fully working (sleeping) before you measure.

[ar91]

@meddie If you have a extra nRF try using that, i had a similar issue and i tried replacing the nRF and it came from mA to uA.

[meddie]

yes of course, i just connected a nrf to the atmega an uploaded the binaryswitchsleepsensor sketch. Now i have a current draw 95.6µA
But when i take the door contact off the atmega draws only 1.3µA
When the door contact is closed (from 3 to GND) the the current is rising to 95.6µA

[GertSanders]

Makes sense to me. By closing the contact you get a path from 3V3 via the pullup resistor to ground.

The current is (for a pullup resistor value around 30KOhm) around 100uA.

Try NOT using the internal pullup resistor of pin D3, and using an external pullup resistor of 1MOhm or more.

You will see lower current when the contact is closed.

[meddie]

ok, i dont have 1mohm here. but i just ordered them. When i get them i will try out and will write here.
Thynk you very much for your help.
Great Forum! Great Projekt!
Greets Eddie

[Pierre P]

Hello,
This board is GREAT. But why C5 ave to be different from C1 C2 C3 ?

[m26872]

@Pierre-P I haven't verified the benefits of C5, so it's just theoretical. You could probably omit or replace without any significant difference.

Anyway, the reasons behind are seen in the BOM. 1 - Package (under uC socket). 2 - RF performance (single layer).

[Pierre P]

@m26872 I see it in the BOM. But now, i can't see where it goes (5 hours... I ask a question, and 5 hours later I can't see what i was talking about....)

C4 is cool for the NRF pic of tension, but -just for information- it could be wherever between 0Vcc and 5Vcc, not necessarily near the NRF ?

As an electrician, and not an electronician, I don't understand why so many 0.1uF capacitor are needed (but i put them too) as we can see in MySlimNode2-sch.pdf that they are virtually at the same place...

Thanks for the answer !

[wergeld]

@m26872 I am about to order the v2 version of the board and I have a few questions as I have never ordered PCBs before.
The defaults on ordering are:
layers - 2
thickness - 1.2 mm
coating - HASL
stencil - none

What are these options? I am tempted to just order as-is...for $14 what could I complain about? I am just curious what these other options are for.

[m26872]

@wergeld
Layers - The board is designed with 2 copper layers (top and bottom) so you can't change that.
Thickness - Of your taste. Default is well proven but e.g. a little thinner could make it easier when you break the panelizing cuts.
Coating and stecil - Honestly I've never bothered to look them up. But google is your friend if you put PCB before as keywords.

[ahmedadelhosni]

Hello @m26872 it is me again if you do remember me.

Just wanted to tell you that I ordered the boards 5 weeks ago and it was delivered to Egypt after 2 weeks, and the silly customs requested some security approvals to give me the boards which I couldn't do it till now. Something pathetic which makes me laugh

Can't wait to do my nodes !

[m26872]

@ahmedadelhosni Welcome back! Yes I remember you had to struggle and could not buy common 433MHz remote controlled switches. Makes sense to do diy projects then I guess.
Hope you get your new nodes running. Please share your result.

[ahmedadelhosni]

@m26872 You are right.

I'll go tomorrow and try to get the approval Well back soon

[ahmedadelhosni]

Finally !

11 pcbs. But I am really angry and feel bad from what happened by DHL.
I paid 29$ for shipping and here in Egypt i paid stupid fees for customs and several things equal to 38$ !!!!! I dont know wether this is something related to my country Egypt or not

I' ll try to forget all what I paid when I do my first node.

[ericvdb]

@ahmedadelhosni that really sucks

[betonishard]

Hello all,

I have been struggling with this for a couple of weeks now and I just can seem to figure out a good way to upload sketches to the arduio328p-pu. First of all I use this setup;

I use arduino for mac 1.6.5
I use a breadboard with a crystal, two capacitors and a resistor between reset and 5v.
An arduino to burn bootloader (with the chip inserted and sketch arduinoISP uploaded).
I use the same hex files as you guys with 1a. I used the optiboot 9600 BOD, just the 9600 and the 4800. Uploading the bootloader is no problem at all. Arduino ide burns the bootloader without any problems. However when I try to upload the sketches I get different errors. The “Yikes” version in which it states that my device signature is not ok and programmer not responding. I use upload using programmer.

So, I tried to upload the arduino uno version to rule out all miscabling. So what I did was upload the arduino uno bootloader, tried to upload the blink sketch afterwards and it works. So my cables are ok….

I thought to repeat the exact same process with the boot version above. However no succes, I keep getting stuck at uploading sketches. Is it just not possible?

I read about setting the fuse options and I read that when you define these in the boards.txt, they will be set as the fuseparameters. When I check the boards txt above i see that fuse settings are: L0x62,H0xde,E0x07, however when I open the png file (first post, fuse settings) it states L0x62,H0xDE,E0xFF. Furthermore the lockbits are at 0xCF, compared to the boards.txt 0x2F. What is true and how should I set these. I don’t see a possibility in arduino ide (I use another arduino to upload, so I don’t have a tiny or USBASP.

Help would be much appreciated here because I have like 30 boards sitting catching dust.

[scalz]

@ahmedadelhosni : no luck! Here same for us in France. I think it's because they handle our package from airport to house...but have we not already paid for this! There is vat of course too, but here vat+15euro extra mystical handle fee.
Fun, is when you want to make a joke to the dhl person and you ask why fees, I don't want pay, give me my package, no come back!! ahaha they are not funny At less, if they were doing right their job, 4times/10 they say "you were not here"??? yep, but I was there..and where is the paper in my mailbox, nothing...arrgh! what do you think I will wait you on the road???

No matter, looking at your package, I think you will have lot of fun

[ahmedadelhosni]

@scalz Seeing that someone else had the same issue made me better hahaha
The problem that I went myself to take it today and they told me that I have to buy for the customs and the government.

I need to calm down and have fun better. Thanks

[m26872]

@betonishard A few "unused" bits of the Ext fuses are differently written in avrdude (Arduino IDE) and Atmel IDE programmer implemetation. That's why the same settings can look different. You have to know which one you use.
Search for "Avr fuse calculator" on the internet and some will show you fuses for both methods.

I also had issues with avrdude when I started and never got it to work. A lot of others do of course, but I found the Atmel way easier for me. Hence only this is shown in the pictures. The bootloading business is not easy and a lot of info is availible on the arduino forums. I think the only way is to read and study.

[meddie]

@betonishard said:

Hello all,

I have been struggling with this for a couple of weeks now and I just can seem to figure out a good way to upload sketches to the arduio328p-pu. First of all I use this setup;

I use arduino for mac 1.6.5
I use a breadboard with a crystal, two capacitors and a resistor between reset and 5v.
An arduino to burn bootloader (with the chip inserted and sketch arduinoISP uploaded).
I use the same hex files as you guys with 1a. I used the optiboot 9600 BOD, just the 9600 and the 4800. Uploading the bootloader is no problem at all. Arduino ide burns the bootloader without any problems. However when I try to upload the sketches I get different errors. The “Yikes” version in which it states that my device signature is not ok and programmer not responding. I use upload using programmer.

So, I tried to upload the arduino uno version to rule out all miscabling. So what I did was upload the arduino uno bootloader, tried to upload the blink sketch afterwards and it works. So my cables are ok….

I thought to repeat the exact same process with the boot version above. However no succes, I keep getting stuck at uploading sketches. Is it just not possible?

I read about setting the fuse options and I read that when you define these in the boards.txt, they will be set as the fuseparameters. When I check the boards txt above i see that fuse settings are: L0x62,H0xde,E0x07, however when I open the png file (first post, fuse settings) it states L0x62,H0xDE,E0xFF. Furthermore the lockbits are at 0xCF, compared to the boards.txt 0x2F. What is true and how should I set these. I don’t see a possibility in arduino ide (I use another arduino to upload, so I don’t have a tiny or USBASP.

Help would be much appreciated here because I have like 30 boards sitting catching dust.

Hi, i had the same problem, but then i tried the 1b hex and since i burned this it works for me.

[meddie]

@GertSanders said:

Makes sense to me. By closing the contact you get a path from 3V3 via the pullup resistor to ground.

The current is (for a pullup resistor value around 30KOhm) arounda lot of 100uA.

Try NOT using the internal pullup resistor of pin D3, and using an external pullup resistor of 1MOhm or more.

You will see lower current when the contact is closed.

Yesterday i get a lot of resistors, now i testen 1Mohm and the current draw is around 4 µa, but now the arduino do not recognize when the reedcontact is closed or open. When the contact is closed the current draw is 4 µa when opened 1.2µa
do i have to edit the sketch in order to get it to work?

[GertSanders]

@meddie
The pull up 1MOhm resistor should go from Vcc - resistor - D2
The switch should be connected to D2 and Gnd
D2 needs to be defined as INPUT, no need to add the statement with PULLUP.
Post your sketch so we can have a look.

[meddie]

/**
 * Created by Henrik Ekblad <henrik.ekblad@mysensors.org>
 * Copyright (C) 2013-2015 Sensnology AB
 * Full contributor list: https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/graphs/contributors
 *
 * Documentation: http://www.mysensors.org
 * Support Forum: http://forum.mysensors.org
 *
 * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
 * modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
 * version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation.
 *
 *******************************
 *
 * DESCRIPTION
 *
 * Interrupt driven binary switch example with dual interrupts
 * Author: Patrick 'Anticimex' Fallberg
 * Connect one button or door/window reed switch between 
 * digitial I/O pin 3 (BUTTON_PIN below) and GND and the other
 * one in similar fashion on digital I/O pin 2.
 * This example is designed to fit Arduino Nano/Pro Mini
 * 
 */


#include <MySensor.h>
#include <SPI.h>

#define SKETCH_NAME "Binary Sensor"
#define SKETCH_MAJOR_VER "1"
#define SKETCH_MINOR_VER "0"

#define PRIMARY_CHILD_ID 3
#define SECONDARY_CHILD_ID 4

#define PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN 2   // Arduino Digital I/O pin for button/reed switch
#define SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN 3 // Arduino Digital I/O pin for button/reed switch

#if (PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN < 2 || PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN > 3)
#error PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN must be either 2 or 3 for interrupts to work
#endif
#if (SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN < 2 || SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN > 3)
#error SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN must be either 2 or 3 for interrupts to work
#endif
#if (PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN == SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN)
#error PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN and BUTTON_PIN2 cannot be the same
#endif
#if (PRIMARY_CHILD_ID == SECONDARY_CHILD_ID)
#error PRIMARY_CHILD_ID and SECONDARY_CHILD_ID cannot be the same
#endif
 
MySensor sensor_node;

// Change to V_LIGHT if you use S_LIGHT in presentation below
MyMessage msg(PRIMARY_CHILD_ID, V_TRIPPED);
MyMessage msg2(SECONDARY_CHILD_ID, V_TRIPPED);

void setup()  
{  
  sensor_node.begin();

  // Setup the buttons
  pinMode(PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN, INPUT);
  pinMode(SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN, INPUT);

  // Activate internal pull-ups
  digitalWrite(PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN, HIGH);
  digitalWrite(SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN, HIGH);
  
  // Send the sketch version information to the gateway and Controller
  sensor_node.sendSketchInfo(SKETCH_NAME, SKETCH_MAJOR_VER"."SKETCH_MINOR_VER);

  // Register binary input sensor to sensor_node (they will be created as child devices)
  // You can use S_DOOR, S_MOTION or S_LIGHT here depending on your usage. 
  // If S_LIGHT is used, remember to update variable type you send in. See "msg" above.
  sensor_node.present(PRIMARY_CHILD_ID, S_DOOR);  
  sensor_node.present(SECONDARY_CHILD_ID, S_DOOR);  
}

// Loop will iterate on changes on the BUTTON_PINs
void loop() 
{
  uint8_t value;
  static uint8_t sentValue=2;
  static uint8_t sentValue2=2;

  // Short delay to allow buttons to properly settle
  sensor_node.sleep(5);
  
  value = digitalRead(PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN);
  
  if (value != sentValue) {
     // Value has changed from last transmission, send the updated value
     sensor_node.send(msg.set(value==HIGH ? 1 : 0));
     sentValue = value;
  }

  value = digitalRead(SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN);
  
  if (value != sentValue2) {
     // Value has changed from last transmission, send the updated value
     sensor_node.send(msg2.set(value==HIGH ? 1 : 0));
     sentValue2 = value;
  }

  // Sleep until something happens with the sensor
  sensor_node.sleep(PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN-2, CHANGE, SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN-2, CHANGE, 0);
} ```

[GertSanders]

@meddie said:

// Activate internal pull-ups
digitalWrite(PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN, HIGH);
digitalWrite(SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN, HIGH);

If you use the external pull up, you need to comment out these two lines like so:

// Activate internal pull-ups
// digitalWrite(PRIMARY_BUTTON_PIN, HIGH);
// digitalWrite(SECONDARY_BUTTON_PIN, HIGH);

No need for an internal pullup if you use an external pull up.
In the above I'm assuming you have an external pullup resistor for each digital pin, one for D2 and one for D3.

[ahmedadelhosni]

@m26872 said:

@ahmedadelhosni You know that the nRF pins are not centered? That means if you rotate it like this it will no longer be straight above the "slim node motherboard".
What height do you expect it to be?

I understood now what you meant by "not centered". Thanks for notifying me.
I'll take care of that.

[betonishard]

@meddie are you also using the optiboot 9600 NOBOD in boards.txt the same as in the first post (fuse settings I mean)? And are you using avrdude arduino ide for mac?

I tried your solution but i get the same results.. Yikes!

If you use the same setup, can you post your boards.txt? Did you also make changes to the hex file?

Thanks in advance.

[betonishard]

@m26872 Thanks for your answer... The problem is I read a lot about it (which makes me kinda stupid that I still haven't achieved this).

I tried to find atmel studio (I believe you are referring to atmel studio?) I couldn't find a proper mac version. I checked on the fuse calculator and still no success. Maybe some one could give me the correct fuse settings for AVR or a proper mac download link for atmel studio.

OI know I am asking a lot, but it would help me a lot. Thanks.!!

[m26872]

@betonishard Yes, of course ask if you have problem. But I suggest you also make a new separate thread in General-, Hw- or Troubleshooting section about your issues.
Maybe it's a good idea to ask in arduino forum as well.

[ahmedadelhosni]

Hello @m26872

I succeeded now to burn the bootloader which you used (1Mhz). I just don't understand a phrase which you mentioned above.

According to this you should use minimal startup time to reduce power in every 8s sleep cycle, but for the moment I don't care and stick to the default 65ms.

Can you explain what is this ? and whether it is affecting badly on something or not ?

Thanks..

[meddie]

its the fuse, which defines the rising time. the oscillator needs some time to come to the correct frequency. If you dont wait this time its possble that your sketch dont work correctly. But the microcontroller is the 65 ms longer not in sleep mode and need more battery power. but works more stable.

[meddie]

YEAH, YEAH YEAH! Thank you all for the help a big thanks to GertSanders. Now it seems to work perfectly. The current draw is now 4.6µa. Now i have to transfer from bredboard to pcb.
Thank you very much!!!!!!

[meddie]

Here

@betonishard said:

@meddie are you also using the optiboot 9600 NOBOD in boards.txt the same as in the first post (fuse settings I mean)? And are you using avrdude arduino ide for mac?

Hi no i use the ide for Windows i dont have a mac.

Here is the hex File

:107E0000112484B714BE81FFE6D085E08093810001
:107E100082E08093C00088E18093C10086E0809377
:107E2000C20089E18093C4008EE0BFD0259A86E02D
:107E300023EC3FEF91E0309385002093840096BBC4
:107E4000B09BFECF1D9AA8958150A9F7EE24FF2480
:107E5000AA24A394B5E0CB2EA1E1BA2EF3E0DF2E45
:107E600098D0813461F495D0082FA5D0023829F13B
:107E7000013811F485E001C083E083D07FC08234F3
:107E800011F484E103C0853419F485E09CD076C0F8
:107E9000853579F47ED0E82EFF247BD0082F10E0C2
:107EA000102F00270E291F29000F111F84D07801E1
:107EB00065C0863521F484E086D080E0DECF84364C
:107EC00009F040C066D065D0082F63D080E0E81686
:107ED00080E7F80618F4F701D7BEE895C0E0D1E0D6
:107EE00058D089930C17E1F7F0E0EF16F0E7FF06A2
:107EF00018F0F701D7BEE8955ED007B600FCFDCFBD
:107F0000A701A0E0B1E02C9130E011968C9111977F
:107F100090E0982F8827822B932B1296FA010C0160
:107F2000A7BEE89511244E5F5F4FF1E0A038BF0770
:107F300051F7F701C7BEE89507B600FCFDCFB7BE05
:107F4000E8951CC0843761F424D023D0082F21D0B9
:107F500032D0F70185917F0114D00150D1F70EC0C6
:107F6000853739F428D08EE10CD085E90AD08FE02E
:107F700084CF813511F488E018D01DD080E101D084
:107F80006FCF982F8091C00085FFFCCF9093C600E3
:107F900008958091C00087FFFCCF8091C00084FDD0
:107FA00001C0A8958091C6000895E0E6F0E098E150
:107FB000908380830895EDDF803219F088E0F5DF4B
:107FC000FFCF84E1DECF1F93182FE3DF1150E9F7D5
:107FD000F2DF1F910895282E80E0E7DFEE27FF27CC
:027FE000099402
:027FFE0000057C
:0400000300007E007B
:00000001FF

Just create a new txt file put this code in there and rename the file to atmega328_1b.hex

this is my boards.txt:

##############################################################

atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.name=ATmega328 on a breadboard 1MHz internal clock, fast start, 1.8V BOD, 4800baud upload

atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.upload.protocol=arduino
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.upload.maximum_size=32256
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.upload.speed=4800

atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.low_fuses=0x42
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.high_fuses=0xDE
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x07

atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.file=atmega/atmega328_1b.hex
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.unlock_bits=0x3F
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.lock_bits=0x2F

atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.build.mcu=atmega328p
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.build.f_cpu=1000000L
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.build.core=arduino:arduino
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.build.variant=arduino:standard


atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.tool=arduino:avrdude
atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.upload.tool=arduino:avrdude

this worked for me!

[m26872]

@ahmedadelhosni I've never verified it by measuring, but I understood like @meddie about Gammons writing.
To get rid of those 65ms startup time you should use fuses 42-DE-FF (Lo-Hi-Ext) instead of 62-DE-FF.

If anyone could verify and measure current between sleep cycles and share some results, it would be great.

[betonishard]

@meddie and @all Tonight I think I have fixed my issue however how I do not understand so maybe someone can explain, or maybe I think I have fixed it and it is not fixed at all.

On the arudino website it states that when you burn your bootloader you have to connect pin 13,12,11 and pin 10 to reset (and ofcourse 5v and ground). AFter burning the bootloader you should replace it with the rx and tx cable and disconnect 13,12,11 and connect reset to reset. Each time I did this I got the error of Yikes! However tonight by accident I forgot to rewire the pins to rx and tx and press “Upload using programmer” all of a sudden it stated “done uploading”.

I tested this with blink sketch so I attached a led to pin13 and ground. The led started to blink. I was happy however did not understand…. or is this just a n00b mistake

[ahmedadelhosni]

@meddie said:

@betonishard said:

Hello all,

I have been struggling with this for a couple of weeks now and I just can seem to figure out a good way to upload sketches to the arduio328p-pu. First of all I use this setup;

I use arduino for mac 1.6.5
I use a breadboard with a crystal, two capacitors and a resistor between reset and 5v.
An arduino to burn bootloader (with the chip inserted and sketch arduinoISP uploaded).
I use the same hex files as you guys with 1a. I used the optiboot 9600 BOD, just the 9600 and the 4800. Uploading the bootloader is no problem at all. Arduino ide burns the bootloader without any problems. However when I try to upload the sketches I get different errors. The “Yikes” version in which it states that my device signature is not ok and programmer not responding. I use upload using programmer.

So, I tried to upload the arduino uno version to rule out all miscabling. So what I did was upload the arduino uno bootloader, tried to upload the blink sketch afterwards and it works. So my cables are ok….

I thought to repeat the exact same process with the boot version above. However no succes, I keep getting stuck at uploading sketches. Is it just not possible?

I read about setting the fuse options and I read that when you define these in the boards.txt, they will be set as the fuseparameters. When I check the boards txt above i see that fuse settings are: L0x62,H0xde,E0x07, however when I open the png file (first post, fuse settings) it states L0x62,H0xDE,E0xFF. Furthermore the lockbits are at 0xCF, compared to the boards.txt 0x2F. What is true and how should I set these. I don’t see a possibility in arduino ide (I use another arduino to upload, so I don’t have a tiny or USBASP.

Help would be much appreciated here because I have like 30 boards sitting catching dust.

Hi, i had the same problem, but then i tried the 1b hex and since i burned this it works for me.

@meddie @betonishard I guess I know the solution. Yesterday I begun creating my nodes with the same setup and faced the same issue. When You upload your sketch, choose your board, and the important thing which will solve the "Yikes" error, is to choose "Arduino as ISP" not "ArduioISP". You will find it under Tools > Programmer.

Another thing. If you are chip is the one which comes with the arduino UNO, then you have to add a crystal at the first time when you change the bootloader. According to what I read yesterday (and this solved an issue also which I faced) that the chip is already configured to use external crytsal. Thus (for the first time only), I tried adding a 20 Mhz, and 10Mhz as I didn't have 16Mhz, and surprisingly both configurations worked

let me know please if that helps.

[ahmedadelhosni]

@meddie THanks for the answer.

Can you please also explain your final result to reach 4uA. I have also the same problem and current is 90uA and sometimes drops to 20uA, then rises again. Thanks.

Edit: I figured out that I was using the 3.3v from arduino UNO. CHanged to two 1.5 batteries. THe current drops to 1.4uA when contact is open but sometimes it is also 15 uA. And when contact is closed it is 60 uA, and sometimes drops. Don't know why it is not stable.

Edit 26.1.2016: I managed to reach 1.4uA with door opened, and 15uA when closed. I guess the problem was with the wiring. DOn't really know but I used a battery holder instead. I will try to rechange the resistor value to 1Mohm and reupdate.

Edit 27.1.2016: ok I created another node and connected the contact sensor in series with the 1Mohm and the output is the voltage divider. now it is 1.4uA when open and 4.6uA when closed.

Thanks

[Pierre P]

@m26872 said:

Board releases:

• Version 2.0 (black) [order] Now designed in KiCad. Hopefully the "final" release.

Well, can I ask an update ? It's about the labels, couldn't we have them on the two faces ? It's always good to know where are Vcc and Gnd at first eye I think.
After all, the atmega and nrf are the only components that can't move to the other side. But even there, knowing the digital and analog pin should be useful !

[Cliff Karlsson]

My PCBs have just arrived and I was going to build a couple of sensors but can´t figure out the first part of how to burn the bootloaders.

For starters can I just use one of the PCBs and solder the atmega socket and a 6 pin header near the nrlf-radio headers? And use this with a Atmega-programmer ?or do I need to solder any more components?

I tried with both a usbasp and a USBtinyISP but could not get any new device to show up in the arduino IDE. But I don´t know if it is a software issue with win10 or if it is hardware related.

[Pierre P]

I've made it with that link: http://www.gammon.com.au/breadboard with no cristal.

[m26872]

@Cliff-Karlsson Apart from the 2x3pin AVRISP you also need to supply power (battery?) Maybe easiest by the 1x6pin FTDI Vcc and Gnd pins. No other components should be needed.

[m26872]

@Pierre-P said:

@m26872 said:

Board releases:

• Version 2.0 (black) [order] Now designed in KiCad. Hopefully the "final" release.

Well, can I ask an update ? It's about the labels, couldn't we have them on the two faces ? It's always good to know where are Vcc and Gnd at first eye I think.
After all, the atmega and nrf are the only components that can't move to the other side. But even there, knowing the digital and analog pin should be useful !

I think I'll collect "improvements" in a list. I agree that some labels could be added, but I don't think it's enough for a new board release.
Also the boardhouse credit collection (which becomes MySensors donations) will be scattered and smaller if there's many versions and branches.

[Cliff Karlsson]

@m26872 said:

AVRISP

Ok so the AVRISP does not provide any power even as it is self powered from usb?

[m26872]

@Cliff-Karlsson At least that's how my programmer works (Avrisp MkII). I think it's a thing to not interfere when it's programmed "in circuit".

[betgear]

@m26872. Thanks for the design, very nice.

On your posted picture of the GY-21, why have you added extra resistors? The Gy-21 has it's own pull ups 4.7k for the i2c bus, so additional resistors are not required!

I removed the voltage regulator from the gy-21 board as well (detailed elsewhere in the forum) to save a little extra power. The only caveat to this is you've got to remember to remove the radio and gy-21 when programming using the usbtinyisp or usbasp as they run at 5v which could damage them.

I'm using the (hallard) breakout board for the rfm69cw which has a much better range than the nrf24's (no idea why people use these unless they live in a rabbit hutch)

Anyway, thanks once again for sharing.

Glen.

[m26872]

@betgear If you had read the posts further down (just like the first line says), you would have seen that the discussion and explainations are already there. But thanks for sharing you results.

[m26872]

@betgear My guess is that the main reason for people to use nRF24 is because the MySensors support for RFm69 came rather recently.

Edit: For me it's the price. I buy 20(!!!) pcs nRF24 for the price of one RFm69. Main reason is different shipping costs.

[Cliff Karlsson]

I just need to ask one more time so that I am absolutley clear abot the bootloader burning. I still cant figure out how to do this with my USBtiny.

First of all my USBtiny provides 3.3 or 5v does it matter what voltage that I provide?
And If I just place the ISCP (?) header and atmega socket I do not need to solder any more components or provide any more power to make the circut complete?

[m26872]

@Cliff-Karlsson said:

First of all my USBtiny provides 3.3 or 5v does it matter what voltage that I provide?

No, as long as it's only the Atmega there.

And If I just place the ISCP (?) header and atmega socket I do not need to solder any more components or provide any more power to make the circut complete?

Yes, correct. (ICSP)

[m26872]

@Cliff-Karlsson Forgot to add that there is already a bootloader on that requires external crystal, you have to add it before to get it work.

[Cliff Karlsson]

Ok thanks for the info. So if I do not have any crystals it is not possible to burn the bootloader in any way?

[m26872]

@m26872 said:

@Cliff-Karlsson Forgot to add that IF there is already a bootloader on that requires external crystal, you have to add it before to get it work.

(the important word "if" dropped out. )

[m26872]

@Cliff-Karlsson said:

Ok thanks for the info. So if I do not have any crystals it is not possible to burn the bootloader in any way?

No, not if its fuses are set for external crystal.

[GertSanders]

An ATMEGA328 coming from ATMEL is normally set to use the internal oscillator and has no bootloader. You will then have no need to put a crystal.

I do this anyway on my breadboard (for the 28 pin DIP versions).

If you have the SMD version of the atmega328 (the AU variant), I'm assuming it is set in the same default state (no crystal needed, running on internal oscillator).

[ahmedadelhosni]

@Cliff-Karlsson i added 10 Mhz and it worked as I didnt have 16 Mhz. Also tested with 20Mhz and worked

[ahmedadelhosni]

First node. Door sensor.
Great boards :+

.

[meddie]

@ahmedadelhosni said:

@meddie THanks for the answer.

Can you please also explain your final result to reach 4uA. I have also the same problem and current is 90uA and sometimes drops to 20uA, then rises again. Thanks.

Edit: I figured out that I was using the 3.3v from arduino UNO. CHanged to two 1.5 batteries. THe current drops to 1.4uA when contact is open but sometimes it is also 15 uA. And when contact is closed it is 60 uA, and sometimes drops. Don't know why it is not stable.

Edit 26.1.2016: I managed to reach 1.4uA with door opened, and 15uA when closed. I guess the problem was with the wiring. DOn't really know but I used a battery holder instead. I will try to rechange the resistor value to 1Mohm and reupdate.

Edit 27.1.2016: ok I created another node and connected the contact sensor in series with the 1Mohm and the output is the voltage divider. now it is 1.4uA when open and 4.6uA when closed.

Thanks

Yes, i used a 1 Mohm reisitor instead of the internall pull up. You can read this few messages above. This was a tip from GertSander

[Tomasz Pazio]

Hi, I build the board but I still have issues with burning ATMega328p chip.
Can you describe and attach files that should work?
The only success "burn" I had with burning bootloader was with hex and boards entry from first post using arduino uno and ips programer ( so it is like burning uno bootloader with your setup)
After that I was trying to upload sketch but than it was not possible because of "?# in boards file but there is no such sign.
I rewert file to stock and burn sketch like it would be standard uno board but using programer and not standard usb. No idea if it is corect so that is why I ask for more details.
Thank you in advance
Tomasz

[m26872]

@Tomasz-Pazio Sounds more like some issue with the IDE and boards file than hw and fuses/bootloader. Have you tried different IDE versions?

[meddie]

@ahmedadelhosni
what is it on the door? is that a plastic wrap?

[ahmedadelhosni]

@meddie

The sensor is drawn by black rectangle. This is adhesive tape like this : http://2.imimg.com/data2/YX/UQ/MY-3910304/sale-bopp-clarity-adhesive-tape-250x250.jpg

The other red rectangle on the door was old tape I didn't remove. Actually before getting my boards I used a bread board and a battery for testing, so I needed a tape for support and keeping it in place

[meddie]

[Tomasz Pazio]

@m26872 thanks for advice, bootloader burned on IDE 1.0.x and after that, sketches are uploaded properly on 1.6.x.

One more question, how it should report battery state? I can not see any variable created for this in Vera.

[m26872]

@Tomasz-Pazio Great! If I remember Vera correct, a variable should be created automaticly upon first message if you use the sendbatterylevel() fuction.

[Cliff Karlsson]

anyone care to write down the exact precedure of how to burn a new bootloader to the atmel chip? what files goes to what folders and so on.

[GertSanders]

@Cliff-Karlsson I'm experimenting with several versions of Optiboot (various upload and upload combinations) for my board. Once that is done, I will add it to the documentation of my board. I'm extending the sketch found here:

http://www.gammon.com.au/forum/?id=11635

[m26872]

@Cliff-Karlsson Let's continue your bootloader trouble discussion in it's own thread:
http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/2975/how-do-i-burn-a-bootloader-to-an-328p-with-uno-bootloader-preinstalled/8

[rsachoc]

OK, so finally I have received most of the parts I need to build a few of these sensors. I want to go with a temp sensor at first, the si7021. So I wanted to check what "other bits" I need (newb alert).

From there, do I need both 1 and 2? If so, what are these?

From here, what are 3 and 4? Do I need both?

Also, depending on the answers above, do I solder to exactly the same pins? Have I missed anything?

Thanks

[Cliff Karlsson]

Ok, finaly succeded in burning the bootloader. Now comes next part. Fuses and lockbits, I have no idea what this means but is this what I need to do?

avrdude -C ../etc/avrdude.conf -c usbasp -B5 -p ATmega328P -U lfuse:w:0x62:m -U hfuse:w:0xDE:m -U efuse:w:0x07:m -U lock:w:0x2F:m

[meddie]

oh, yes! And you have to be carefully with them, because to set the fuses wrong, can destroy your µcontroller

[meddie]

if you look to message Nr 179 you will find my bootloader and the correct fuses for this. But its a 1MHz Bootloader and the fuses too.
Dont use it if you want to run it at 8 MHz.

[bjacobse]

Web-based fuse calculator
A different way of evaluating fuses is presented at this web page:
http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc

At the bottom I inserted your fuses.
Translation:
Divide by8-> if your mcy board uses 8Mhz, then you now use 1Mhz Clock (Good this enables that you now can use a lower voltage down to 1,9V)
SPI is enabled, then you can program your mcu with FTDI cable
BOD mcu will not power down mcu when you have a low voltage (So you can use down to 1,9V)
I write 1,9Volt since this is the lowest voltage your NRF24L01+ can use for operation

[Cliff Karlsson]

Sorry for asking the same questions over and over but I have just used the files linked at the top of this thread.

This is the bootloader that I used:

atmega328_1a.hex (Optiboot for 9600baud at 1MHz)

##############################################################
# Add the new board to boards.txt (normally located at "C:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware\arduino\avr"
# The *.bootloader.* etries only matters if you want to program bootloader (and fuses) from Arduino IDE. 
# See http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc (select Atmega328p) for interpretation of fuse values and how 
# extended fuses are written in different applications (07h in Arduino IDE = FFh in Atmel studio).
##############################################################

apm96.name=APM Optiboot internal 1MHz noBOD 9600baud

apm96.upload.tool=avrdude
apm96.upload.protocol=arduino
apm96.upload.maximum_size=32256
apm96.upload.speed=9600
apm96.bootloader.tool=avrdude
apm96.bootloader.low_fuses=0x62
apm96.bootloader.high_fuses=0xde
apm96.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x07
apm96.bootloader.path=optiboot_v50
apm96.bootloader.file=atmega328_1a.hex
apm96.bootloader.unlock_bits=0x3F
apm96.bootloader.lock_bits=0x2F
apm96.build.mcu=atmega328p
apm96.build.f_cpu=1000000L
apm96.build.core=arduino
apm96.build.variant=standard

Do I still need to add fuses or is that done when the bootloader is burned?

[ahmedadelhosni]

@Cliff-Karlsson

It is already done when you burn the bootloader.

apm96.bootloader.low_fuses=0x62
apm96.bootloader.high_fuses=0xde

[m26872]

@Cliff-Karlsson said:

Ok, finaly succeded in burning the bootloader.

Great news!! With Arduino as ISP? Any particular tips to share?

[Cliff Karlsson]

@m26872 I am fairly sure that all methods work in normal cases but nothing worked for me fore some reason .

The only way I could get it to work was when I finaly put the chip in an Arduino Uno clone with 328p Dip(?) socket and connected an USBtiny ISP to the ISCP of that Uno. It took just a couple of seconds and then it was done :).

I flashed like 6-7 ships right away with bootloader and blink-sketch just for fun. Biggest problem now is to get the damn chip in/out of the sockets without bending any legs. But I ordered a chip extractor to remedy that problem (in 4-6 weeks :()

[m26872]

@Cliff-Karlsson

To get the ICs out from the DIP socket, I just use a small screw driver (2-3mm) and gently push it all the way under from one side only. And of course, don't push in the IC to hard to begin with.

[bjacobse]

@Cliff-Karlsson
You shall buy Textool ZIF socket. not sure which fits your Arduino, If you at some point get's lazy (Solder less, and accept to use a little more space) and use Arduino Pro Mini then textool 224-3344 ZIF will be your friend

[rsachoc]

Hi all, I'm seeing replies, but I'm not sure if any are aimed at my question? I think not?

[m26872]

@rsachoc
I've started a new thread aimed at your question. I'll soon delete much of the content in the post you based your question on and refer to the new thread instead.

[meddie]

it would be nice when a atsha204 a an a flash rom where placed to pcb for signing and ota

[m26872]

@meddie I don't use any of it myself yet, but I know it's only a matter of time until they'll be needed. I think a add-on board to all already existing nodes would be my personal priority then, but new users would prefer it on-board of course and only populate if needed. I'll put on my not yet posted future requests list. (I remember top-side labels are also wanted.) A thing to remember though, is that my Slim Node design is a concept was a lean and simplicity concept, without preparations for maximum flexibility etc.

As I've said earlier - if anyone like to do their own Slim Node design, you're very welcome. And if you share it, it's even better.

[GertSanders]

@m26872: slowly getting there: http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/3043/new-nrf24l01-smd/14

[meddie]

What i like on this node is the great idea with the casing. To use a cable duct is a great idea. We have wooden windows and i found in a diy market cable ducts in wooden look
like this:

The Problem is that the size is 15x15 mm outside. inside the pcb can be max. 13 mm.

[m26872]

@meddie I think 15x15 is very common and should be to prefer, but if I remember correct there's not enough space for AA batteries, or is there?

[m26872]

@GertSanders Good job! If you go the SMD way I think a lot could be done. Perhaps matching AAA width? Leave some (only few) SMD pads open for sensor connection, no proto area, etc.

[meddie]

oh, yes. You have right, the battery fits in it, but its a little bit too big so i cant close the cover. Damn i didnt try it before.
ok the i have to look for a graeter duct.

[AWI]

Currently this is my favorite board. Minimal size, traditional components and just enough breadboard space. A few variations:
Soldered an 8 mHz resonator (a 'crystal' which does not need the capacitors) for a more stable clock.

Soldered a 3.3v LDO (662k) under the radio to have it powered with a rechargeable Lipo (4.1V max) battery. And added a voltage divider to measure the actual battery voltage.

With a SMD version of the radio. Needs some creative soldering...

Compared to an other favourite ( @GertSanders )

It would even be better if the smd radio could be soldered on the board. Kicad is giving me a headache so if anybody wants to volunteer with a panelized design.... (I will reward you with a free batch of 'dirty' boards, just drop me a pm)

[GertSanders]

AA batteries are 14mm in diameter. AAA batteries are 10mm in diameter.

I have single AAA batteryholders which are 13mm wide at the base, and including a battery they are 13mm high at the highest point.

LEGRAND sells 16x16mm cable ducts (http://www.ecataleg.be/fr/category/2751/16-x-16), which is what I plan to use, but the 15x15 ducts should work as well.

[GertSanders]

@m26872 I'm trying to make a full SMD board with the smd variant of the nrf24.

So far, my first design is a 21mm square.

I have been thinking about a long 13mm x 100mm variant. That would allow plenty of space, at least 1 AAA, but more importantly would allow panelisation when combining with a 13x100 board for two AAA battery holders.

This would give 3 sensor nodes + 3 battery holder boards in one 100x100 panel, or 6 sensor boards if we use your technique of "ty-wrapping" batteries.

[Cliff Karlsson]

A couple of more questions. In one of the pictures at the top the electrulyte 4,.7 uf capacitator is placed closer to the atmel chip and the 0.1 uf (c5) is placed closest to the edge does it matter witch capacitator goes where?

The 10k resistor should be 1/4 or 1/8 W according to the bom. I had some small 1/6 W 10k resistors can I use them? I also have some bigger blue 10k resistor that I do not know the W rating on.

Where did you purchase the female pin-header that are used for the chips? I have some atmega chip-sockets that are quite narrow and it is hard to fit the components underneath. I also have some other female pin-headers but they are atleast twice as high than the ones in the pictures.

[Yveaux]

@AWI said:

panelized design

If you're struggling with panelizing boards I can recommend the excellent gerber tools from Stijn Kuipers.

It allows you to create designs like this (10x10cm, DirtyPCBs):

Drop him a message and he'll send you a download link.

[AWI]

@Yveaux Tnhx, but I guess I am not ready for the first step (creating/ adapting a board in Kicad) yet ....

[Yveaux]

@AWI Sorry, can't help you with that. All Eagle here

[GertSanders]

@Yveaux I tried to find an email address on the website, but apart from a LinkIn link I could not find anything. Also, in LinkedIn you need a paying version to be able to send InMail, and I do not have a paid account. Would you care to tell me how you were able to send Stijn a message ?

[AWI]

@Cliff-Karlsson You can swap the capacitors and use all resistor dissipation values. The pin headers you can find here for example

[Yveaux]

@GertSanders It's been a while, but my first contact was through his Twitter account. Try that first, otherwise ping me.

[GertSanders]

@Yveaux I do not have a twitter account, so no joy. And I feel stupid to say so, but how do you ping someone on this forum ?

[ahmedadelhosni]

@Yveaux i remember once that i read that dirtypcbs does not allow for different designs in their panelized boards. Am i correct ?