Safe In-Wall AC to DC Transformers??
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@Moshe-Livne @ServiceXp Cool, thanks! By testing, what sort of testing could I do to know it's safe? Also, would I be able to open it up or would I need to keep in in the packaging?
My ultimate goal is to make a in wall switch similar to what I did with the "smart plug" (https://youtu.be/oNpMDN4QqD8). Do you see any other potential problems with putting those electronics in a wall? I want to make sure I don't do anything stupid before I attempt any of this...
I am planning on using relays like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261099571172?rmvSB=true
I would be powering lights so I shouldn't be anywhere near the 10A limit on these relays.
Thanks for all the help!
My "How To" home automation video channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq_Evyh5PQALx4m4CQuxqkA
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@Moshe-Livne @ServiceXp Cool, thanks! By testing, what sort of testing could I do to know it's safe? Also, would I be able to open it up or would I need to keep in in the packaging?
My ultimate goal is to make a in wall switch similar to what I did with the "smart plug" (https://youtu.be/oNpMDN4QqD8). Do you see any other potential problems with putting those electronics in a wall? I want to make sure I don't do anything stupid before I attempt any of this...
I am planning on using relays like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261099571172?rmvSB=true
I would be powering lights so I shouldn't be anywhere near the 10A limit on these relays.
Thanks for all the help!
@petewill said:
@Moshe-Livne @ServiceXp Cool, thanks! By testing, what sort of testing could I do to know it's safe?
I have ordered 5 of them and i will test them at full 600 ma for 4 weeks in a flush box and protocoll data.I think if they don´t smoke we can use them on pcb
if (knowledge == 0) { use BRAIN; use GOOGLE;use SEARCH; } else {make POST;}
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@Moshe-Livne said:
@tbowmo @petewill @didi @ServiceXp I think I found the perfect one!!!!
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2155823_-1
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/GS05U-USB-spec-33533.pdfit is made by meanwell, so not flimsy. has all protections. 8$ at jameco and mouser and I am sure my meanwell supplier on aliexpress can get it for me at half price... it is a shame that they do not sell the inside separately but nothing is perfect.
the only problem might be breaking it apart. Meanwell really make sturdy enclosures.
let me know what you think...I think that one would be a good candidate for some testing.
@ServiceXp
Testing as in:
Ripple / Noise (if you don't have a scope just make sure the sensor does lock up on long run times at max load.)
Measure the heat it generates during full load (find something that can draw 1 amp).
Check to see if you can even fit it and the other components inside of a box that already has wire/switch run to it.Personally, I would want to crack one of these open and see how it was designed. Making sure it's Ok, the specs look good on it, but you never know....
If the testing looks good, I would not have a problem using it (I would try and keep it in it's case if at all possible, or have one made that will house everything). I do think you are going to need a pretty deep box to fit it all.
We really need a MySensors Micro solution here, but then there is the liability.....
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@petewill said:
@Moshe-Livne @ServiceXp Cool, thanks! By testing, what sort of testing could I do to know it's safe?
I have ordered 5 of them and i will test them at full 600 ma for 4 weeks in a flush box and protocoll data.I think if they don´t smoke we can use them on pcb
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@petewill said:
@Moshe-Livne @ServiceXp Cool, thanks! By testing, what sort of testing could I do to know it's safe?
I have ordered 5 of them and i will test them at full 600 ma for 4 weeks in a flush box and protocoll data.I think if they don´t smoke we can use them on pcb
@Didi Would you mind testing the meanwell ones as well? I would have but being on a small island at the end of the world is a problem sometimes. Don't mind buying a few for you for testing - I really would like to have both a reliable wall charger and a power supply I could use in a box without too much worry and the meanwell looks so promising....
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@tbowmo @petewill @didi @ServiceXp I think I found the perfect one!!!!
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2155823_-1
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/GS05U-USB-spec-33533.pdfit is made by meanwell, so not flimsy. has all protections. 8$ at jameco and mouser and I am sure my meanwell supplier on aliexpress can get it for me at half price... it is a shame that they do not sell the inside separately but nothing is perfect.
the only problem might be breaking it apart. Meanwell really make sturdy enclosures.
let me know what you think... -
Adding my two cents, I have dissected two devices (one zwave from GE and one unbranded, non zwave) and both used a capacitor-resistor power supply.
Very dangerous, as it is "transformerless" --- In other hand, cheap and small footprint. By using X2 capacitors the risk is a bit lower. It is in my list for prototype/testing over next weeks.
Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
Alexa / Google Home -
@rvendrame So did i on a 433mhz relay sold quite common here... it looked as this capacitor-resistor power supply as well.
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Adding my two cents, I have dissected two devices (one zwave from GE and one unbranded, non zwave) and both used a capacitor-resistor power supply.
Very dangerous, as it is "transformerless" --- In other hand, cheap and small footprint. By using X2 capacitors the risk is a bit lower. It is in my list for prototype/testing over next weeks.
@rvendrame said:
Adding my two cents, I have dissected two devices (one zwave from GE and one unbranded, non zwave) and both used a capacitor-resistor power supply.
Very dangerous, as it is "transformerless" --- In other hand, cheap and small footprint. By using X2 capacitors the risk is a bit lower. It is in my list for prototype/testing over next weeks.
Interesting. Thanks for posting. I have very limited knowledge in this area so I'm learning a lot. I'm excited to get a good solution for this. It will be very useful for many things.
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Adding my two cents, I have dissected two devices (one zwave from GE and one unbranded, non zwave) and both used a capacitor-resistor power supply.
Very dangerous, as it is "transformerless" --- In other hand, cheap and small footprint. By using X2 capacitors the risk is a bit lower. It is in my list for prototype/testing over next weeks.
@rvendrame very interesting. The link mention only 100ma at most but I guess that they are using SSRs so don't face the problems we have with our relays. I wonder why there is no "off the shelf" unit like that. I would be a bit scared to construct something like that.
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@ServiceXp
Testing as in:
Ripple / Noise (if you don't have a scope just make sure the sensor does lock up on long run times at max load.)
Measure the heat it generates during full load (find something that can draw 1 amp).
Check to see if you can even fit it and the other components inside of a box that already has wire/switch run to it.Personally, I would want to crack one of these open and see how it was designed. Making sure it's Ok, the specs look good on it, but you never know....
If the testing looks good, I would not have a problem using it (I would try and keep it in it's case if at all possible, or have one made that will house everything). I do think you are going to need a pretty deep box to fit it all.
We really need a MySensors Micro solution here, but then there is the liability.....
@ServiceXp @petewill @Didi here is another one! http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/606238.pdf
this one is reasonably smallish, has all the required protections. They are so well hidden....
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@ServiceXp @petewill @Didi here is another one! http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/606238.pdf
this one is reasonably smallish, has all the required protections. They are so well hidden....
@Moshe-Livne said:
And pice is ok
Found one at ebay:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/5V-550mA-switching-power-supply-module-MYRRA-47122-PCB-mount-/301663807573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463c906855 -
@Moshe-Livne , I believe there is no off the shell as if you dig in the details, you will see that the impedance of the consuming circuit ( arduino + radio + relay in our case) direct influence the overall performance of the capacitor/resistor model.
Usually triacs consume less than relay (something between 10 and 50mA), and you can also control the bright of a light or speed of a motor, instead just turn them on or off.
The downside, you need a snubber circuit as well as a zero-cross detection circuit. The snubber is also recomended for relays, though.
So at the end you don't reduce the footprint or costs --- But triacs tend to last longer than relays, as no mechanical commutation occurs.
Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
Alexa / Google Home -
@Moshe-Livne , I believe there is no off the shell as if you dig in the details, you will see that the impedance of the consuming circuit ( arduino + radio + relay in our case) direct influence the overall performance of the capacitor/resistor model.
Usually triacs consume less than relay (something between 10 and 50mA), and you can also control the bright of a light or speed of a motor, instead just turn them on or off.
The downside, you need a snubber circuit as well as a zero-cross detection circuit. The snubber is also recomended for relays, though.
So at the end you don't reduce the footprint or costs --- But triacs tend to last longer than relays, as no mechanical commutation occurs.
@rvendrame I'm right with you on all of this have been trying to do this for a couple months with no time right now. Actually it has been longer I was originally building all this for another system using XBees and then found it better to use esp8266 then said better yet use Mysensors so here we are! Transformer less is key at least I think so! Only problem no off the self builds.
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Hi,
I found an application notes from enocean regarding power supplies design. I think it could be helpful, and good to remember, so I share the link.
http://www.enocean.com/fileadmin/redaktion/pdf/app_notes/AN101_POWER_SUPPLY_LAYOUT_2015.pdf -
I'm currently studying this doc STEVAL-ILL004V1 AN2263 AppNote .pdf. I should prototype something over next week if family allows.
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Hi. interesting link, I will read it when I will have time. It looks like u2008 or u2010 which are obsolete now (I have some in stock, cheap on aliexpress) but I didn't know your ref. thanks
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@rvendrame : I tried something similar once. I didn't remember exactly how all was connected but with triac, in one wire, even if I was not toggling anything, I had brown reset at start (maybe I could find my schem). With two wire, I had no problem but a little flickering (zero cross detection done by arduino). Maybe it was that which restarted. Next, I did another test with mosfet pwm, in one wire config again. This time, it started ok, and as I was increasing pwm it restarted for pwm = 170-200 (I don't remember exactly) .But I jumped onto another project I am finishing.
I will follow your results with interest as your link is interesting , and at my home it is one wire too. -
@scalz, with the 1-wire circuit , the maximum you can reach is like 80% - 90 % of light bright, as you need to keep the triac/mosfet "off" for a short period, in order to recharge the PSU capacitor. Maybe that explained why it re-started on your test at PWM 170-200. (and would also confirm that it works 'as designed', good to know)
