Battery Sensor v 1.0 PCB
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Ok, since sma antenna is more power demanding and works ok, maybe capacitor isn't solution.
But i get better than 30 feet on zigzag antenna, maybe you have a not so perfect pcb unit (nRF). It is nice and residue clean?
@BSoft I've tried several different ones, theyt all look clean, no "gunk" or anything. I even tried taking it off the board and putting it on a extension cable, same results.Yeah, 30 feet seems a bit of a drag :)
john
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@BSoft re: Capacitor Bypass. I assume you are talking about the 4.7uFd cap between the Vcc and Gnd on the radio? If so its been installed from the get-go, its part of the design and is within millimeters of the NRF connector.
@clippermiami said:
@BSoft re: Capacitor Bypass. I assume you are talking about the 4.7uFd cap between the Vcc and Gnd on the radio? If so its been installed from the get-go, its part of the design and is within millimeters of the NRF connector.
Yes it is!
Sorry i wasn't aware of 4.7uF presence.
You could add more since it as been reported as better (220µF), check here: link text
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@clippermiami said:
@BSoft re: Capacitor Bypass. I assume you are talking about the 4.7uFd cap between the Vcc and Gnd on the radio? If so its been installed from the get-go, its part of the design and is within millimeters of the NRF connector.
Yes it is!
Sorry i wasn't aware of 4.7uF presence.
You could add more since it as been reported as better (220µF), check here: link text
@BSoft Interesting discussion. Bottom line seem to be that 4.7 uF doesn't do much, the more the merrier then.
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It's not just about capacity, it's about using a capacitor with low ESR.
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Are you trying different orientations of the antenna? While I've not seen any spec's for the cheap module antenna ("7" shape or zigzag), I think I recall seeing reference to a pattern with two peak lobes and two nulls for another nRF24L01+ or nRF51822 based module. It's unlikely that the antenna is omnidirectional. (I don't know if the antenna also has polarization issues, another possibility).
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Are you trying different orientations of the antenna? While I've not seen any spec's for the cheap module antenna ("7" shape or zigzag), I think I recall seeing reference to a pattern with two peak lobes and two nulls for another nRF24L01+ or nRF51822 based module. It's unlikely that the antenna is omnidirectional. (I don't know if the antenna also has polarization issues, another possibility).
@Zeph I changed orientation buy door of "incidentally" , I held the unit up over my head to see if I got updates and I did, more often than just sitting on the counter but still not all the time. In this case the antennas would have been vertical rather than horizontal. Puzzling to be sure.
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about capacitor for radio. Attached you can see picture from one of my successful project
capacitor is tantalum 22uF soldered directly to pins of the module, from the side of module PCB
you can see capacitor as a small yellow box on top of the 8 pin radio connector
sense and drive
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about capacitor for radio. Attached you can see picture from one of my successful project
capacitor is tantalum 22uF soldered directly to pins of the module, from the side of module PCB
you can see capacitor as a small yellow box on top of the 8 pin radio connector
@axillent Do you have a feel for the range of this rig? If this is the answer I'll get the capacitor and mod every radio :)
My Gateway has the SMA antenna on it and is less than 30 feet, and one interior wall, from the sensor and it doesn't work. When I bring the sensor to within about 10-12 feet it works every time but out at 20+ feet it fails almost every time. Its hard to believe that there is so little range
I've tried a number of things:
(a) several different radios - no change
(b) remove the radio and place it on a 8 inch cable to get away from the ground plane - no change;
(c) jumpered around the up-regulator (i.e. everything direct connected to battery) - no change;
(d) radio with SMA antenna - works every time but the battery consumption goes through the roof. In 12 hours with the SMA antenna the battery dropped 0.12 V versus 0.04 V in 24 hours with the regular radio. The AMP on the antenna version consumes a lot of juice.Puzzlement :)
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@axillent Do you have a feel for the range of this rig? If this is the answer I'll get the capacitor and mod every radio :)
My Gateway has the SMA antenna on it and is less than 30 feet, and one interior wall, from the sensor and it doesn't work. When I bring the sensor to within about 10-12 feet it works every time but out at 20+ feet it fails almost every time. Its hard to believe that there is so little range
I've tried a number of things:
(a) several different radios - no change
(b) remove the radio and place it on a 8 inch cable to get away from the ground plane - no change;
(c) jumpered around the up-regulator (i.e. everything direct connected to battery) - no change;
(d) radio with SMA antenna - works every time but the battery consumption goes through the roof. In 12 hours with the SMA antenna the battery dropped 0.12 V versus 0.04 V in 24 hours with the regular radio. The AMP on the antenna version consumes a lot of juice.Puzzlement :)
@clippermiami My distances are not too long, Just measured - this particular device is ranged 5m with one wall on the way to gateway
you have to distinguish radio with SMA **without **PA&LNA and radio **with **SMA and with PA&LNA
last one have an additional chip to amplify radio signal both wayradio without PA & LNA with SMA can sometimes be worse comparing to radio with PCB antenna
it depends on how well external antenna is aligned by frequency and impedanceList of your actions have radio channel tuning missed
sense and drive
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@clippermiami My distances are not too long, Just measured - this particular device is ranged 5m with one wall on the way to gateway
you have to distinguish radio with SMA **without **PA&LNA and radio **with **SMA and with PA&LNA
last one have an additional chip to amplify radio signal both wayradio without PA & LNA with SMA can sometimes be worse comparing to radio with PCB antenna
it depends on how well external antenna is aligned by frequency and impedanceList of your actions have radio channel tuning missed
@axillent This SMA unit has the PA on it. The radio channel is the default for everything.
You distance is similar to mine, about 4.5-5 meters with one wall and it works. Beyond that NADA :)
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@axillent This SMA unit has the PA on it. The radio channel is the default for everything.
You distance is similar to mine, about 4.5-5 meters with one wall and it works. Beyond that NADA :)
@clippermiami said:
@axillent This SMA unit has the PA on it. The radio channel is the default for everything.
works and works the best way are different things, If you live far from big cities probably it make no sense.
Otherwise it is recommended to run network scan from RF24 examples to find less busy channel at your location.sense and drive
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@clippermiami said:
@axillent This SMA unit has the PA on it. The radio channel is the default for everything.
works and works the best way are different things, If you live far from big cities probably it make no sense.
Otherwise it is recommended to run network scan from RF24 examples to find less busy channel at your location.@axillent The wireless channel is the one thing I hadn't investigated as yet so i will. I suppose it could be congested around here.
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I ran the scanner but got page after page of:
RF24/examples/scanner/ Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed. Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed. Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed. Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed.My radio is configured exactly as described although I will admit i just loaded the sketch to the sensor board and ran it on there rather than set up a special build just for that.
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I ran the scanner but got page after page of:
RF24/examples/scanner/ Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed. Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed. Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed. Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed.My radio is configured exactly as described although I will admit i just loaded the sketch to the sensor board and ran it on there rather than set up a special build just for that.
:@clippermiami do not knew why but there are a few versions of this example
try this onesorry, do not knew how to insert a code here
/* Copyright (C) 2011 James Coliz, Jr. <maniacbug@ymail.com> Copyright (c) 2012 Greg Copeland This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation. */ /** * Channel scanner * * Example to detect interference on the various channels available. * This is a good diagnostic tool to check whether you're picking a * good channel for your application. * * Inspired by cpixip. * See http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,54795.0.html */ #include <SPI.h> #include "RF24.h" #include "printf.h" // Only display active frequencies static const bool activeOnly = true ; // // Hardware configuration // // Set up nRF24L01 radio on SPI bus plus pins 8 & 9 RF24 radio(9,10); // // Channel info // const short num_channels = 128; short values[num_channels]; uint8_t signalMeter[55] ; // // Setup // void setup(void) { // // Print preamble // Serial.begin(115200); printf_begin(); printf("\n\rRF24/examples/scanner/\n\r"); // // Setup and configure rf radio // radio.begin(); radio.powerUp() ; radio.setAutoAck(false); // Get into standby mode radio.openReadingPipe( 0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFULL ) ; // radio.setDataRate( RF24_250KBPS ) ; // may fallback to 1Mbps radio.setDataRate( RF24_1MBPS ) ; // may fallback to 1Mbps radio.startListening() ; radio.stopListening() ; } // // Loop // void loop(void) { // Clear measurement values memset( values, 0x00, num_channels ) ; printf( "Scanning all available frequencies..." ) ; // Repeatedly scan multiple channels for( int channel=0 ; channel < num_channels; channel++ ) { radio.setChannel( channel ) ; // Amplify the signal based on carrier bandwidth int ampFactor ; for( int amp=0; amp <= 300; amp++ ) { // Alternate data rates ampFactor = amp%3 ; switch( ampFactor ) { case 0: radio.setDataRate( RF24_250KBPS ) ; break ; case 1: radio.setDataRate( RF24_1MBPS ) ; break ; default: radio.setDataRate( RF24_2MBPS ) ; break ; } // Listen for carrier ampFactor++ ; radio.startListening() ; delayMicroseconds( 6 - ampFactor ) ; radio.stopListening() ; // Was carrier detected? If so, signal level based on bandwidth if( radio.testRPD() ) { values[channel] += ampFactor ; } } } // Now display our results printf( "Scan completed.\r\n" ) ; for( int channel=0 ; channel < num_channels; channel++ ) { if( !activeOnly || (activeOnly && values[channel] > 0) ) { memset( signalMeter, '*', min( values[channel], 54 ) ) ; signalMeter[min(values[channel], 54)] = 0x00 ; printf( "%03d (%4dMhz): %02d - %s\r\n", channel, 2400+channel, values[channel], signalMeter ) ; // Reset the scanned value since its already beend displayed values[channel] = 0 ; } } } // vim:ai:cin:sts=2 sw=2 ft=cppsense and drive
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@clippermiami do not knew why but there are a few versions of this example
try this onesorry, do not knew how to insert a code here
/* Copyright (C) 2011 James Coliz, Jr. <maniacbug@ymail.com> Copyright (c) 2012 Greg Copeland This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation. */ /** * Channel scanner * * Example to detect interference on the various channels available. * This is a good diagnostic tool to check whether you're picking a * good channel for your application. * * Inspired by cpixip. * See http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,54795.0.html */ #include <SPI.h> #include "RF24.h" #include "printf.h" // Only display active frequencies static const bool activeOnly = true ; // // Hardware configuration // // Set up nRF24L01 radio on SPI bus plus pins 8 & 9 RF24 radio(9,10); // // Channel info // const short num_channels = 128; short values[num_channels]; uint8_t signalMeter[55] ; // // Setup // void setup(void) { // // Print preamble // Serial.begin(115200); printf_begin(); printf("\n\rRF24/examples/scanner/\n\r"); // // Setup and configure rf radio // radio.begin(); radio.powerUp() ; radio.setAutoAck(false); // Get into standby mode radio.openReadingPipe( 0, 0xFFFFFFFFFFULL ) ; // radio.setDataRate( RF24_250KBPS ) ; // may fallback to 1Mbps radio.setDataRate( RF24_1MBPS ) ; // may fallback to 1Mbps radio.startListening() ; radio.stopListening() ; } // // Loop // void loop(void) { // Clear measurement values memset( values, 0x00, num_channels ) ; printf( "Scanning all available frequencies..." ) ; // Repeatedly scan multiple channels for( int channel=0 ; channel < num_channels; channel++ ) { radio.setChannel( channel ) ; // Amplify the signal based on carrier bandwidth int ampFactor ; for( int amp=0; amp <= 300; amp++ ) { // Alternate data rates ampFactor = amp%3 ; switch( ampFactor ) { case 0: radio.setDataRate( RF24_250KBPS ) ; break ; case 1: radio.setDataRate( RF24_1MBPS ) ; break ; default: radio.setDataRate( RF24_2MBPS ) ; break ; } // Listen for carrier ampFactor++ ; radio.startListening() ; delayMicroseconds( 6 - ampFactor ) ; radio.stopListening() ; // Was carrier detected? If so, signal level based on bandwidth if( radio.testRPD() ) { values[channel] += ampFactor ; } } } // Now display our results printf( "Scan completed.\r\n" ) ; for( int channel=0 ; channel < num_channels; channel++ ) { if( !activeOnly || (activeOnly && values[channel] > 0) ) { memset( signalMeter, '*', min( values[channel], 54 ) ) ; signalMeter[min(values[channel], 54)] = 0x00 ; printf( "%03d (%4dMhz): %02d - %s\r\n", channel, 2400+channel, values[channel], signalMeter ) ; // Reset the scanned value since its already beend displayed values[channel] = 0 ; } } } // vim:ai:cin:sts=2 sw=2 ft=cpp@axillent First thing I see is that this version has the radio on pins 8,9 whereas the version I used has it on pins 9,10 which is where it is in my hardware.
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@axillent First thing I see is that this version has the radio on pins 8,9 whereas the version I used has it on pins 9,10 which is where it is in my hardware.
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@clippermiami That is a good point. But something tells me that you do need an assistance to adjust this code to your hardware :)
@axillent I won't deny that, but it seems simple enough. :)
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So i breadboarded a Nano and a NRFL2401 with a PA and antenna, uploaded the scanner sketch and this is what I got: I'm using the default radio channel from the distribution library.
RF24/examples/scanner/ Scanning all available frequencies...Scan completed. 000 (2400Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 001 (2401Mhz): 100 - ****************************************************** 002 (2402Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 003 (2403Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 004 (2404Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 005 (2405Mhz): 104 - ****************************************************** 006 (2406Mhz): 91 - ****************************************************** 007 (2407Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 008 (2408Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 009 (2409Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 010 (2410Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 011 (2411Mhz): 86 - ****************************************************** 012 (2412Mhz): 89 - ****************************************************** 013 (2413Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 014 (2414Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 015 (2415Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 016 (2416Mhz): 93 - ****************************************************** 017 (2417Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 018 (2418Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 019 (2419Mhz): 85 - ****************************************************** 020 (2420Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 021 (2421Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 022 (2422Mhz): 90 - ****************************************************** 023 (2423Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 024 (2424Mhz): 85 - ****************************************************** 025 (2425Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 026 (2426Mhz): 100 - ****************************************************** 027 (2427Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 028 (2428Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 029 (2429Mhz): 90 - ****************************************************** 030 (2430Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 031 (2431Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 032 (2432Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 033 (2433Mhz): 91 - ****************************************************** 034 (2434Mhz): 93 - ****************************************************** 035 (2435Mhz): 97 - ****************************************************** 036 (2436Mhz): 104 - ****************************************************** 037 (2437Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 038 (2438Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 039 (2439Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 040 (2440Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 041 (2441Mhz): 100 - ****************************************************** 042 (2442Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 043 (2443Mhz): 100 - ****************************************************** 044 (2444Mhz): 110 - ****************************************************** 045 (2445Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 046 (2446Mhz): 111 - ****************************************************** 047 (2447Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 048 (2448Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 049 (2449Mhz): 93 - ****************************************************** 050 (2450Mhz): 97 - ****************************************************** 051 (2451Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 052 (2452Mhz): 93 - ****************************************************** 053 (2453Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 054 (2454Mhz): 93 - ****************************************************** 055 (2455Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 056 (2456Mhz): 106 - ****************************************************** 057 (2457Mhz): 101 - ****************************************************** 058 (2458Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 059 (2459Mhz): 106 - ****************************************************** 060 (2460Mhz): 91 - ****************************************************** 061 (2461Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 062 (2462Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 063 (2463Mhz): 100 - ****************************************************** 064 (2464Mhz): 107 - ****************************************************** 065 (2465Mhz): 101 - ****************************************************** 066 (2466Mhz): 93 - ****************************************************** 067 (2467Mhz): 90 - ****************************************************** 068 (2468Mhz): 102 - ****************************************************** 069 (2469Mhz): 103 - ****************************************************** 070 (2470Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 071 (2471Mhz): 102 - ****************************************************** 072 (2472Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 073 (2473Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 074 (2474Mhz): 97 - ****************************************************** 075 (2475Mhz): 105 - ****************************************************** 076 (2476Mhz): 97 - ****************************************************** 077 (2477Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 078 (2478Mhz): 103 - ****************************************************** 079 (2479Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 080 (2480Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 081 (2481Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 082 (2482Mhz): 103 - ****************************************************** 083 (2483Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 084 (2484Mhz): 89 - ****************************************************** 085 (2485Mhz): 97 - ****************************************************** 086 (2486Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 087 (2487Mhz): 97 - ****************************************************** 088 (2488Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 089 (2489Mhz): 101 - ****************************************************** 090 (2490Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 091 (2491Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 092 (2492Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 093 (2493Mhz): 88 - ****************************************************** 094 (2494Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 095 (2495Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 096 (2496Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 097 (2497Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 098 (2498Mhz): 90 - ****************************************************** 099 (2499Mhz): 100 - ****************************************************** 100 (2500Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 101 (2501Mhz): 107 - ****************************************************** 102 (2502Mhz): 90 - ****************************************************** 103 (2503Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 104 (2504Mhz): 105 - ****************************************************** 105 (2505Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 106 (2506Mhz): 101 - ****************************************************** 107 (2507Mhz): 100 - ****************************************************** 108 (2508Mhz): 103 - ****************************************************** 109 (2509Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 110 (2510Mhz): 99 - ****************************************************** 111 (2511Mhz): 92 - ****************************************************** 112 (2512Mhz): 90 - ****************************************************** 113 (2513Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 114 (2514Mhz): 102 - ****************************************************** 115 (2515Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 116 (2516Mhz): 91 - ****************************************************** 117 (2517Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 118 (2518Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 119 (2519Mhz): 101 - ****************************************************** 120 (2520Mhz): 104 - ****************************************************** 121 (2521Mhz): 93 - ****************************************************** 122 (2522Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 123 (2523Mhz): 98 - ****************************************************** 124 (2524Mhz): 96 - ****************************************************** 125 (2525Mhz): 95 - ****************************************************** 126 (2526Mhz): 94 - ****************************************************** 127 (2527Mhz): 96 - ******************************************************Which does not look much like the display at the reference: http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,54795.0.html
and i'm not sure what its telling me other than some relative signal level data. Perhaps someone could help me interpret this :)
Updagte:
As it continues to run it shows significantly different values over time, some reaching as high as063 (2463Mhz): 84 - ****************************************************** 064 (2464Mhz): 89 - ****************************************************** 065 (2465Mhz): 97 - ****************************************************** 066 (2466Mhz): 201 - ****************************************************** 067 (2467Mhz): 252 - ****************************************************** 068 (2468Mhz): 300 - ****************************************************** 069 (2469Mhz): 284 - ****************************************************** -
I'm about idea'd out. I put a 200 uF electrolytic directly on the Vcc and Gnd terminals of the radio module and it made no difference whatsoever ... the sensor fails to report beyond about 10 meters and one interior wall. That doesn't leave much upside.
I'm at a loss at this point, I've tried different radio modules to no avail. I've taken the radio off the board ground plane to no avail.Thus far the only thing I've found that allows decent distance is a radio with the PA/SMA antenna and that simply eats battery. I can't make hide nor hair out of the scanner output ... the channel variation doesn't appear to be more than a few percent for the most part so it doesn't look like that's much of a solution.
I admit to being curious if anyone has actually had these things work beyond the workbench :)
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I'm about idea'd out. I put a 200 uF electrolytic directly on the Vcc and Gnd terminals of the radio module and it made no difference whatsoever ... the sensor fails to report beyond about 10 meters and one interior wall. That doesn't leave much upside.
I'm at a loss at this point, I've tried different radio modules to no avail. I've taken the radio off the board ground plane to no avail.Thus far the only thing I've found that allows decent distance is a radio with the PA/SMA antenna and that simply eats battery. I can't make hide nor hair out of the scanner output ... the channel variation doesn't appear to be more than a few percent for the most part so it doesn't look like that's much of a solution.
I admit to being curious if anyone has actually had these things work beyond the workbench :)
