OTA flash types for MySensors

[scalz]

@tbowmo I thought same things...
@ahmedadelhosni : translation roughly done ;) Here http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/3503/sensebender-dualoptiboot-ota-howto-in-mysensors

[ahmedadelhosni]

Thanks guys for the help.

So in conclusion, any OTA application shall work. The bootloader is responsible for flashing. Whether to copy my code to flash then after that copy to my atmega if I am using DualOptiboot or just use MyScontroller which as far as I remember does not copy to extenal flash.

Am I write ?

[ahmedadelhosni]

I read @scalz new post. It answers my above questions.

Thanks everyone for the help.

[tbowmo]

@ahmedadelhosni said:

Thanks guys for the help.

So in conclusion, any OTA application shall work. The bootloader is responsible for flashing. Whether to copy my code to flash then after that copy to my atmega if I am using DualOptiboot or just use MyScontroller which as far as I remember does not copy to extenal flash.

Am I write ?

For dualoptiboot, you need to compile the library with Ota support (and have an external flash connected). The advantage here is that it's radio agnostic. Mysbootloader is only usable with nrf24 radio.

Controller shouldn't care about which bootloader you have. The library uses same Ota transport mechanism as mysbootloader does, when used together with Dualoptiboot and external flash.

[GertSanders]

@tbowmo

Good to know, I was not clear on the difference between flash and eeprom

[ahmedadelhosni]

Summary: MYSContoller is used for OTA updates regarding the bootloader used. The bootloader is responsible to handle the packets sent by copying it to an external EEPROM and then doing a reset, this is DualOptiboot. The other scenario is using MYSBootloader where the bootloader resets the Atmega and the bootloader handles the received packets with the new firmware.

Correct me please if I am mistaken.

[ahmedadelhosni]

The other topic which I guess is important to be included here is using Signing with OTA.
Do both bootloaders support Signing during flashing ? The answer is in the below link.

http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/2997/signing-or-encrypting-the-data/27

This discussion worth to be read. Originally it talks about signing vs encryption but I have asked the question regarding Signing in bootloader and that was the answer of Anticimex

NB: tekka has released MYSBootloader 1.3pre (1.3NS) and it states also that upcoming release (1.3S) will have Signing support. Link to topic

[GertSanders]

@ahmedadelhosni

I would like to keep this discussion on the Hardware topic: which flash memory can be used for OTA ?

All other - relevant no doubt - questions you raise deserve a separate discussion in the Development topic. They are not hardware related.

[ahmedadelhosni]

@GertSanders Yeah write :) Just forgot the title of the topic during our discussions :)

[Gulpman]

I do not have a list of working flash types but did a search for them. See below a list of what I found and think could fit. I also added where the specifications differ from the AT25DF512C. As I do not know exactly what is important from the specs I would appreciate it if someone with more knowledge on the topic could help to differentiate about what's important and what's not.
At least if one of the chips is not usable we can add them here, too - in a negative list. So we have information on those working and those who are not working in one place.

That's what I found:

SST25VF512A -> Datasheet: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/268/25090A-708983.pdf

• operating voltage only 2.7 - 3.6V
• no Dual Output Read?
• 33 MHz max. frequency
• Couldn't find anything about JEDEC Standard Manufacturer and Device ID Read Methodology

SST25WF512A -> Datasheet: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/268/20005016C-709021.pdf

• operating voltage only 1.65 - 2.9V
• no Dual Output Read?
• 40 MHz max. frequency
• Couldn't find anything about JEDEC Standard Manufacturer and Device ID Read Methodology

ISSI IS25CD512 -> Datasheet: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/198/25CD512-010-LD020-258252.pdf

• operating voltage only 2.7 - 3.6V
• 100 MHz max. frequency
• supports JEDEC Standard Manufacturer and Device ID Read Methodology

W25X05-SN -> Datasheet: http://www.winbond.co.jp/resource-files/w25x05cl_e01.pdf

• operating voltage only 2.3 - 3.6V
• 104 MHz max. frequency
• supports JEDEC Standard Manufacturer and Device ID Read Methodology

Disadvantage of all of the above is that they seem to need far more than 2.0V to operate (bad for a battery sensor).

I think the AT25DF512C is best for the job but unfortunately I couldn't find a distributor in Europe. Digikey and Mouser (only places I know where to get it) do bill you $20 for shipping to Europe which I would like to avoid. :)

[Dirk_H]

@Gulpman @hek
Hello everybody,
I just added a pullrequest which will support SST25 Series flash for OTA Bootloader:
https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/pull/445

SST25 Series flash mentioned by Gulpman as 1st and 2nd Alternative are currently not supported, because the dont support pagewriting with opcode 0x02. Instead they support Automatic Address Increment Word writing (opcode 0xAD). I updated teh SPIFlash.cpp and .h so they will take care of that if #define MY_SPIFLASH_SST25TYPE is set somewhere.
I tested with this SPI Flash: http://www.reichelt.de/25PF020B80-4C-S/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTICLE=137365&artnr=25PF020B80-4C-S&SEARCH=25pf020b80 which is of Type SST25PF020B-80-4C-SAE (2MBit) and working now.

I only hat a short look at the ISSI and Winbond flash Datasheets mentioned by Gulpman before. At first look I think they both could work with the current Mysensors / SPIFlash Version becuase they support Pagewriting with opcode 0x02 and seem to implement the other relevant opcodes. However I did not test..!

Best Regards
DirkH / D-H-R :)

-edited on 2016-06-01 to take care of changed Name for define (added "MY_")

[tbowmo]

@Dirk_H

Did you test the SST25 together with DualOptiboot? Or is it only the writing from library that is tested?

[Dirk_H]

@tbowmo
I tested the complete chain with SST25. I.e. I prepared two sketches and uploaded them via OTA with MYSController and checked that the sketch changed via presentation Message.

Dual Optiboot does not need modification because AFAIK it only reads from Flash, which works the same way for SST and other Flash Types.

[Koresh]

I am new in this thread. But I think it may be worth using spi jedec flash in my latest hardware projects (insertable socket and insertable switch). So it will key to the future :)
What about atmel AT26DF series(4/8mb)? It's compartible with AT25DF series pin to pin.

[tbowmo]

@Dirk_H

I think that DualOptiboot is writing to the external flash, after a successful upgrade of the internal flash, as it tries to delete the image stored there.

But I haven't looked that much into the design of dualoptiboot.. Just forked it, and adjusted bits here and there, to be suitable for the sensebender :) So I don't know what commands it uses to erase the data.

[Dirk_H]

@tbowmo
I looked at the defines inside the DualOptibootloader, I truly hope that there is no "hardcoded" opcode hidden somewhere... Assuming this, dualoptiboot does not write to the SPIFlash. It does erase, however thats not writing in this scope ;)

#define SPIFLASH_STATUSWRITE      0x01        // write status register
#define SPIFLASH_STATUSREAD       0x05        // read status register
#define SPIFLASH_WRITEENABLE      0x06        // write enable
#define SPIFLASH_ARRAYREADLOWFREQ 0x03        // read array (low frequency)
#define SPIFLASH_BLOCKERASE_32K   0x52        // erase one 32K block of flash memory
#define SPIFLASH_BLOCKERASE_64K   0xD8        // erase one 32K block of flash memory
#define SPIFLASH_JEDECID          0x9F        // read JEDEC ID

@Koresh please post a link to the datasheet. You can also check on your own: check if your spi-flash supports all commands listed in the SPIFlash.h defines. Of cause obvious things such as pinning and supply voltage range must also be checked.

A caveeat I fell into, was that opcode 0x02 supports byte and pageprogramming for some SPI-Flash types but not for all (e.g. SST25 does not support pageprogramming but therefore has the AAI Wordprogramming feature).

[scalz]

interesting..on my side I like the AT25DF512 for its voltage range 1.65v min and its low power mode 0.2uA in deepest mode. better for low power batt nodes I think..too bad there is not something like this in i2c format but I guess these flash types prefer faster spi transfer..

[Dirk_H]

Yes the AT25DF512 seems to outperform other memories and is truly a good chip. However unfortunately its hard to get in Germany (and maybe other parts of the world ;) ). The common distributors here do not have it in stock...

[AWI]

@Dirk_H said:

AT25DF512
Hard for me to determine but is this different from AT25F512N?

[Dirk_H]

@AWI
The AT25F512 (from Atmel?) is quiet different from the Adesto AT25DF512. As far as I can see the Atmel one seems not to have a Block erase command (32k/64k), which is used in MySensor AND in Bootloader code.

If I'm not wrong with that assumption (and I dont think I am), I would NOT recommend to use the Atmel AT25F512.

To all: please provide links to the Datasheet if you expect help... Its tedious to search them every time. Gulpman did great preparation work in his post above.

Edit: Never mind what I said in this Post. I got confused with sectors pages and blocks :eyes: ... I'll write some more later.