8Bit or 32Bit processors
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I was wondering where you can get a M0 processor for less then the price of an atmega328p ? Most SAMD21's I see are 5 times the price of an atmega328p (normal given it's much better capacities).
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atmega328p costs 2.07$ on mouser : http://www.mouser.dk/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology-Atmel/ATMEGA328P-AU/
If you take the equivalent atsamd20E15, it cost 1.84$ http://www.mouser.dk/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology-Atmel/ATSAMD20E15A-AU
(both have 32Kb flash)
If you beef up the atsam to the largest memory, it costs 2.36$ http://www.mouser.dk/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology-Atmel/ATSAMD20E18A-AU
But then you also have 256Kb of flash and 32Kb ram available, for .29$ extra (compared to the atmega328)..
Of course that is not atsamd21, but for a standard node you don't need the USB capabilities of the '21, and a '20 should be enough..
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On AliExpress you can find STM32 with Cortex M0 for as low as 0.4$ per unit. Not compatible with Arduino unfortunately but for that price the specs are pretty impressive...
And the STM32F103C8T6 which are compatible with Arduino and soon compatible with MySensors are around 1$, similar price than AtMega328 but for Cortex M3 at 48MHz, 64KB of flash, 20KB or RAM and lots of extras. -
@tbowmo said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
ATSAMD20E18A-AU
Too bad that MOUSER still charges me 20 EUR for transport, even for something as small as a single chip. I would need to buy for more then 50 EUR before transport cost is waived. How the suppliers on Aliexpress do it, I do not know.
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@tbowmo said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
ATSAMD20E18A-AU
Too bad that MOUSER still charges me 20 EUR for transport, even for something as small as a single chip. I would need to buy for more then 50 EUR before transport cost is waived. How the suppliers on Aliexpress do it, I do not know.
@GertSanders said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
How the suppliers on Aliexpress do it, I do not know.
They just use cheaper shipping options that are much slower. It's possible in the US too as you can order PCBs from PCBs.io for 5$ shipping included, and they are in the US.
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@tbowmo said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
ATSAMD20E18A-AU
Too bad that MOUSER still charges me 20 EUR for transport, even for something as small as a single chip. I would need to buy for more then 50 EUR before transport cost is waived. How the suppliers on Aliexpress do it, I do not know.
@GertSanders
ali, or chinese supplier, in fact are cheating a bit for getting those price.when ordering at mouser, i generally order some stock for future boards, and regarding some parts, like passives it's almost same price as ali and you're sure of the quality (and for some sensors i'm sure they're not out of specs, clones..) , with a bigger choice.
but sometimes i have some missing parts too :grimacing:
tme has low shipping cost, or Arrow.com is nice too as it's 20€ minimum order for getting free express shipping ;)I don't know how to get cheaper then..
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@GertSanders
ali, or chinese supplier, in fact are cheating a bit for getting those price.when ordering at mouser, i generally order some stock for future boards, and regarding some parts, like passives it's almost same price as ali and you're sure of the quality (and for some sensors i'm sure they're not out of specs, clones..) , with a bigger choice.
but sometimes i have some missing parts too :grimacing:
tme has low shipping cost, or Arrow.com is nice too as it's 20€ minimum order for getting free express shipping ;)I don't know how to get cheaper then..
@scalz said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
Arrow.com is nice too as it's 20€ minimum order for getting free express shipping ;)
Free shipping to Vietnam also :o
Thank you @scalz I love you :D -
@GertSanders
ali, or chinese supplier, in fact are cheating a bit for getting those price.when ordering at mouser, i generally order some stock for future boards, and regarding some parts, like passives it's almost same price as ali and you're sure of the quality (and for some sensors i'm sure they're not out of specs, clones..) , with a bigger choice.
but sometimes i have some missing parts too :grimacing:
tme has low shipping cost, or Arrow.com is nice too as it's 20€ minimum order for getting free express shipping ;)I don't know how to get cheaper then..
@scalz said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
Arrow.com is nice too as it's 20€ minimum order for getting free express shipping ;)
Looks promising! Thank you :)
Anything about quality - is it all genuine parts? -
@sundberg84 for sure ;) they are the same as mouser, digikey, farnell etc.. But they don't all have same stock and price. And it exists even more semiconductors suppliers. As always it depends what you need
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A number of people have ask me about why I'm using 32bit processors when an 8bit will do. Well its simple, for small development projects of less that a few hundreds unit, the larger flash, larger ram, faster CPU, lower power devices, and cheaper raw devices, allow for faster code development... no time wasted on how to save flash or ram space.. seldom having to concern myself about CPU speed.
If I'm doing a project that requires very large volume, or special needs, I will again consider an 8 or 16bit processor, but again, these days often the 32bit devices are cheaper and more functional.
Below are a number of CPU boards with RFM69 or RFM95 Radios attach that can be used with MySensor.
In MySensor space, for my projects, my favorite 32bit processor board is:
RocketScream M0 ultra pro Ver2, RFM69 or RFM95 radio, battery connector/charger, USB port, EUI64 chip, large external flash, very low power, u.FL or SMA connector, great support...
http://www.rocketscream.com/blog/product/mini-ultra-pro-v2-with-radio/Other 32 Bit:
Adafruit Feather LoRa M0, NO EUI64, No External flash, battery connector
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3178 RFM95
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3176 RFM69Non 32 bit processors:
MoteinoMega LoRa, ATmega1284P, RFM69 or RFM95, EUI64 chip, large external flash, u.FL or SMA connector
https://lowpowerlab.com/shop/product/119Moteino LoRa, ATmega328P, RFM69 or RFM95, large external flash, NO EUI64 chip
https://lowpowerlab.com/shop/product/99Adafruit Feather LoRa, ATmega32U4 CPU, NO EUI64, No External flash, battery connector, RFM69 or RFM95
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3078@lafleur
Which IDE do you use/recommend for the 32-bit mcu's?In the 8-bit realm, I'm most familiar with the atmega328p. RAM is certainly limited, the 10-bit ADC leaves me wanting, no DAC, no RTC, and the only asynchronous counter is only 8 bits! So, for an upgrade, I'd like all those things and a wider counter. Ideally, it would have a large enough memory that I could easily download new sketches OTA without having to buy and install additional external flash memory (which is how the Moteino does it) to hold a new sketch until it has been validated as correctly received before it is installed and then activated as the primary sketch. On the other hand, I wouldn't want current consumption during sleep to be any worse than the atmega328p. It's ultra-low powerdown current consumption is what I find most attractive about the atmega328p, and it's one of the main reasons why I use it.
I suppose the other reason is an abundance of libraries that work with it and that are well supported (due to the large number of Arduino users asking and answering questions as well as writing libraries).
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On AliExpress you can find STM32 with Cortex M0 for as low as 0.4$ per unit. Not compatible with Arduino unfortunately but for that price the specs are pretty impressive...
And the STM32F103C8T6 which are compatible with Arduino and soon compatible with MySensors are around 1$, similar price than AtMega328 but for Cortex M3 at 48MHz, 64KB of flash, 20KB or RAM and lots of extras.@Nca78 said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
On AliExpress you can find STM32 with Cortex M0 for as low as 0.4$ per unit.
I can't find anything priced anywhere near that low. Would you mind posting some links?
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I use the standard Arduino IDE for most things but moving to PlatformIO as it's editor is so much better that the brain dead one in the Arduino IDE
@lafleur said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
I use the standard Arduino IDE for most things but moving to PlatformIO as it's editor is so much better that the brain dead one in the Arduino IDE
Have you tried ARMmbed? I have yet to try it, but I hear it's better than the Arduino IDE.
For all its flaws, the simplicity of the Arduino IDE is its strength. I've tried using Atmel studio, but it seemed rather bloated and not simple.
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@NeverDie
maybe wrong, but i think mbed is online.. and not sure if mysensors would work out of the box.
On my side, i've tried Platform.io but it was unfortunately a bit buggy on my side, sometimes closing ide etc, well maybe was unlucky. My favorite is Visual Studio (you can get it for free with the Express Edition) with Visual Micro extension which then simply uses your arduino cores and boards files behind the scene. try it you won't be disappointed, fast and rocks ;) -
Did some checking, and apparently these $1.70 "blue pill" 32-bit ARM mcu boards are programmable from within the Arduino IDE:
[Edit: This tells how to do it: http://www.wifi4things.com/stm32f103c8t6-blue-pill-board-with-arduino-ide-on-linux/]
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@NeverDie
maybe wrong, but i think mbed is online.. and not sure if mysensors would work out of the box.
On my side, i've tried Platform.io but it was unfortunately a bit buggy on my side, sometimes closing ide etc, well maybe was unlucky. My favorite is Visual Studio (you can get it for free with the Express Edition) with Visual Micro extension which then simply uses your arduino cores and boards files behind the scene. try it you won't be disappointed, fast and rocks ;) -
Did some checking, and apparently these $1.70 "blue pill" 32-bit ARM mcu boards are programmable from within the Arduino IDE:
[Edit: This tells how to do it: http://www.wifi4things.com/stm32f103c8t6-blue-pill-board-with-arduino-ide-on-linux/]
@NeverDie said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
Did some checking, and apparently these $1.70 "blue pill" 32-bit ARM mcu boards are programmable from within the Arduino IDE:
Yes they are and they are getting some support in MySensors too. But they can't really be used for very low power nodes are sleep current is at 20uA minimum.
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I just now did a quick survey of what's available in MCU's, and I have to say: if there's an MCU with markedly more capability, then one way or another you're going to pay extra for that. For instance, an mcu which can do 24-bit analog-to-digital is going to cost more than $5. i.e. I'm not seeing any great deals that come from switching to 32-bit per se. I assume that's because the market for 8-bit MCU's adjusts to stiffer 32-bit competition by more or less automatically lowering its price.
