8Bit or 32Bit processors
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@sundberg84 for sure ;) they are the same as mouser, digikey, farnell etc.. But they don't all have same stock and price. And it exists even more semiconductors suppliers. As always it depends what you need
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A number of people have ask me about why I'm using 32bit processors when an 8bit will do. Well its simple, for small development projects of less that a few hundreds unit, the larger flash, larger ram, faster CPU, lower power devices, and cheaper raw devices, allow for faster code development... no time wasted on how to save flash or ram space.. seldom having to concern myself about CPU speed.
If I'm doing a project that requires very large volume, or special needs, I will again consider an 8 or 16bit processor, but again, these days often the 32bit devices are cheaper and more functional.
Below are a number of CPU boards with RFM69 or RFM95 Radios attach that can be used with MySensor.
In MySensor space, for my projects, my favorite 32bit processor board is:
RocketScream M0 ultra pro Ver2, RFM69 or RFM95 radio, battery connector/charger, USB port, EUI64 chip, large external flash, very low power, u.FL or SMA connector, great support...
http://www.rocketscream.com/blog/product/mini-ultra-pro-v2-with-radio/Other 32 Bit:
Adafruit Feather LoRa M0, NO EUI64, No External flash, battery connector
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3178 RFM95
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3176 RFM69Non 32 bit processors:
MoteinoMega LoRa, ATmega1284P, RFM69 or RFM95, EUI64 chip, large external flash, u.FL or SMA connector
https://lowpowerlab.com/shop/product/119Moteino LoRa, ATmega328P, RFM69 or RFM95, large external flash, NO EUI64 chip
https://lowpowerlab.com/shop/product/99Adafruit Feather LoRa, ATmega32U4 CPU, NO EUI64, No External flash, battery connector, RFM69 or RFM95
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3078@lafleur
Which IDE do you use/recommend for the 32-bit mcu's?In the 8-bit realm, I'm most familiar with the atmega328p. RAM is certainly limited, the 10-bit ADC leaves me wanting, no DAC, no RTC, and the only asynchronous counter is only 8 bits! So, for an upgrade, I'd like all those things and a wider counter. Ideally, it would have a large enough memory that I could easily download new sketches OTA without having to buy and install additional external flash memory (which is how the Moteino does it) to hold a new sketch until it has been validated as correctly received before it is installed and then activated as the primary sketch. On the other hand, I wouldn't want current consumption during sleep to be any worse than the atmega328p. It's ultra-low powerdown current consumption is what I find most attractive about the atmega328p, and it's one of the main reasons why I use it.
I suppose the other reason is an abundance of libraries that work with it and that are well supported (due to the large number of Arduino users asking and answering questions as well as writing libraries).
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On AliExpress you can find STM32 with Cortex M0 for as low as 0.4$ per unit. Not compatible with Arduino unfortunately but for that price the specs are pretty impressive...
And the STM32F103C8T6 which are compatible with Arduino and soon compatible with MySensors are around 1$, similar price than AtMega328 but for Cortex M3 at 48MHz, 64KB of flash, 20KB or RAM and lots of extras.@Nca78 said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
On AliExpress you can find STM32 with Cortex M0 for as low as 0.4$ per unit.
I can't find anything priced anywhere near that low. Would you mind posting some links?
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I use the standard Arduino IDE for most things but moving to PlatformIO as it's editor is so much better that the brain dead one in the Arduino IDE
@lafleur said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
I use the standard Arduino IDE for most things but moving to PlatformIO as it's editor is so much better that the brain dead one in the Arduino IDE
Have you tried ARMmbed? I have yet to try it, but I hear it's better than the Arduino IDE.
For all its flaws, the simplicity of the Arduino IDE is its strength. I've tried using Atmel studio, but it seemed rather bloated and not simple.
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@NeverDie
maybe wrong, but i think mbed is online.. and not sure if mysensors would work out of the box.
On my side, i've tried Platform.io but it was unfortunately a bit buggy on my side, sometimes closing ide etc, well maybe was unlucky. My favorite is Visual Studio (you can get it for free with the Express Edition) with Visual Micro extension which then simply uses your arduino cores and boards files behind the scene. try it you won't be disappointed, fast and rocks ;) -
Did some checking, and apparently these $1.70 "blue pill" 32-bit ARM mcu boards are programmable from within the Arduino IDE:
[Edit: This tells how to do it: http://www.wifi4things.com/stm32f103c8t6-blue-pill-board-with-arduino-ide-on-linux/]
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@NeverDie
maybe wrong, but i think mbed is online.. and not sure if mysensors would work out of the box.
On my side, i've tried Platform.io but it was unfortunately a bit buggy on my side, sometimes closing ide etc, well maybe was unlucky. My favorite is Visual Studio (you can get it for free with the Express Edition) with Visual Micro extension which then simply uses your arduino cores and boards files behind the scene. try it you won't be disappointed, fast and rocks ;) -
Did some checking, and apparently these $1.70 "blue pill" 32-bit ARM mcu boards are programmable from within the Arduino IDE:
[Edit: This tells how to do it: http://www.wifi4things.com/stm32f103c8t6-blue-pill-board-with-arduino-ide-on-linux/]
@NeverDie said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
Did some checking, and apparently these $1.70 "blue pill" 32-bit ARM mcu boards are programmable from within the Arduino IDE:
Yes they are and they are getting some support in MySensors too. But they can't really be used for very low power nodes are sleep current is at 20uA minimum.
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I just now did a quick survey of what's available in MCU's, and I have to say: if there's an MCU with markedly more capability, then one way or another you're going to pay extra for that. For instance, an mcu which can do 24-bit analog-to-digital is going to cost more than $5. i.e. I'm not seeing any great deals that come from switching to 32-bit per se. I assume that's because the market for 8-bit MCU's adjusts to stiffer 32-bit competition by more or less automatically lowering its price.
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I just now did a quick survey of what's available in MCU's, and I have to say: if there's an MCU with markedly more capability, then one way or another you're going to pay extra for that. For instance, an mcu which can do 24-bit analog-to-digital is going to cost more than $5. i.e. I'm not seeing any great deals that come from switching to 32-bit per se. I assume that's because the market for 8-bit MCU's adjusts to stiffer 32-bit competition by more or less automatically lowering its price.
@NeverDie it depends on your application.
For example ATSAMD20E18A-AU is just over 2$, same price than atmega328 if you buy from a "reputable" source.
But it has many more capabilities that will save you external components: easier/faster design, lower power consumption, easier coding etc etc.I had a quick look at the datasheet and see many potential interesting uses for me :
- it can manage dozens of touch channels meaning I could use a much more simple design for the board in Livolo wall switch. And with 8uA in sleep mode with capacitive touch enabled it's saving power too
- it has 6 serial communication interfaces so it can have 2 high speed serial coms and manage A6 GSM module in debug mode, something I can't do with atmega328 but only with a mega2560 which is much more expensive
- integrated RTC so no need for it on my ADXL shield for example. And in sleep mode with RTC active it's using less current than atmega328 with watchdog timer activated for regular wake up.
Even if you buy atmega328 around 1$ on aliexpress you can quickly make your missing $ back in many use cases.
I'm seriously thinking about using it now :) -
@NeverDie it depends on your application.
For example ATSAMD20E18A-AU is just over 2$, same price than atmega328 if you buy from a "reputable" source.
But it has many more capabilities that will save you external components: easier/faster design, lower power consumption, easier coding etc etc.I had a quick look at the datasheet and see many potential interesting uses for me :
- it can manage dozens of touch channels meaning I could use a much more simple design for the board in Livolo wall switch. And with 8uA in sleep mode with capacitive touch enabled it's saving power too
- it has 6 serial communication interfaces so it can have 2 high speed serial coms and manage A6 GSM module in debug mode, something I can't do with atmega328 but only with a mega2560 which is much more expensive
- integrated RTC so no need for it on my ADXL shield for example. And in sleep mode with RTC active it's using less current than atmega328 with watchdog timer activated for regular wake up.
Even if you buy atmega328 around 1$ on aliexpress you can quickly make your missing $ back in many use cases.
I'm seriously thinking about using it now :)@Nca78 said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
For example ATSAMD20E18A-AU is just over 2$, same price than atmega328 if you buy from a "reputable" source.
And the ATSAMD20E17A-AU which is exactly identical except it "only" has 128k of flash instead of 256k is 1.56$ at Arrow. It's quite hard to keep the credit card in the pocket :D
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@NeverDie it depends on your application.
For example ATSAMD20E18A-AU is just over 2$, same price than atmega328 if you buy from a "reputable" source.
But it has many more capabilities that will save you external components: easier/faster design, lower power consumption, easier coding etc etc.I had a quick look at the datasheet and see many potential interesting uses for me :
- it can manage dozens of touch channels meaning I could use a much more simple design for the board in Livolo wall switch. And with 8uA in sleep mode with capacitive touch enabled it's saving power too
- it has 6 serial communication interfaces so it can have 2 high speed serial coms and manage A6 GSM module in debug mode, something I can't do with atmega328 but only with a mega2560 which is much more expensive
- integrated RTC so no need for it on my ADXL shield for example. And in sleep mode with RTC active it's using less current than atmega328 with watchdog timer activated for regular wake up.
Even if you buy atmega328 around 1$ on aliexpress you can quickly make your missing $ back in many use cases.
I'm seriously thinking about using it now :) -
@NeverDie it depends on your application.
For example ATSAMD20E18A-AU is just over 2$, same price than atmega328 if you buy from a "reputable" source.
But it has many more capabilities that will save you external components: easier/faster design, lower power consumption, easier coding etc etc.I had a quick look at the datasheet and see many potential interesting uses for me :
- it can manage dozens of touch channels meaning I could use a much more simple design for the board in Livolo wall switch. And with 8uA in sleep mode with capacitive touch enabled it's saving power too
- it has 6 serial communication interfaces so it can have 2 high speed serial coms and manage A6 GSM module in debug mode, something I can't do with atmega328 but only with a mega2560 which is much more expensive
- integrated RTC so no need for it on my ADXL shield for example. And in sleep mode with RTC active it's using less current than atmega328 with watchdog timer activated for regular wake up.
Even if you buy atmega328 around 1$ on aliexpress you can quickly make your missing $ back in many use cases.
I'm seriously thinking about using it now :)@Nca78 said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
@NeverDie it depends on your application.
For example ATSAMD20E18A-AU is just over 2$, same price than atmega328 if you buy from a "reputable" source.
But it has many more capabilities that will save you external components: easier/faster design, lower power consumption, easier coding etc etc.I had a quick look at the datasheet and see many potential interesting uses for me :
- it can manage dozens of touch channels meaning I could use a much more simple design for the board in Livolo wall switch. And with 8uA in sleep mode with capacitive touch enabled it's saving power too
- it has 6 serial communication interfaces so it can have 2 high speed serial coms and manage A6 GSM module in debug mode, something I can't do with atmega328 but only with a mega2560 which is much more expensive
- integrated RTC so no need for it on my ADXL shield for example. And in sleep mode with RTC active it's using less current than atmega328 with watchdog timer activated for regular wake up.
Even if you buy atmega328 around 1$ on aliexpress you can quickly make your missing $ back in many use cases.
I'm seriously thinking about using it now :)Say, that MCU you picked (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATSAMD20E18A-AUT/ATSAMD20E18A-AUTCT-ND/4497257) does look like a winner. I especially like that it has so much memory, both SRAM and flash. As I doubt I would need to occupy that much flash memory all at once, it means it should make for a great staging area to store a new wireless OTA sketch as it trickles in. :)
- Is there already a serial bootloader available for it, or does that have yet to be written?
- Is there a schematic for a very basic "pro mini" type circuit that makes use of it? Having that as a reference point really helped when I first tried making circuits with the atmega328p.
- What about libraries and demo code?
- Can software for it be developed in either Arduino IDE or Visual Studio with Visual Micro extensions?
If all those pieces are in place and not still waiting to be developed, then I'd be interested in giving it a try too!
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There is a "BOSA" compatible bootloader, I have still on my todo list to verify that this is working (will be before makerfaire in Eindhoven, as I have promised to bring the new sensebender micro mk2 with me)
I have created the sensebender micro mk2, which still needs verification.. (For my part, activity have been low due to other work related projects..)
Software should be possible in arduino IDE (the core is the same as in atsamd21, which is used by the Sensebender Gateway.. Only difference is that it misses USB interface.
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There is a "BOSA" compatible bootloader, I have still on my todo list to verify that this is working (will be before makerfaire in Eindhoven, as I have promised to bring the new sensebender micro mk2 with me)
I have created the sensebender micro mk2, which still needs verification.. (For my part, activity have been low due to other work related projects..)
Software should be possible in arduino IDE (the core is the same as in atsamd21, which is used by the Sensebender Gateway.. Only difference is that it misses USB interface.
@tbowmo said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
Software should be possible in arduino IDE (the core is the same as in atsamd21, which is used by the Sensebender Gateway.. Only difference is that it misses USB interface.
Any reason to use D20 instead of D21 except saving 0.3 - 0.5$ per unit ?
As the D21G18 is used in Arduino Zero it makes sure there's some stable support for that version.@NeverDie you can check that for "pro mini" style board: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13664
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It won't incorporate USB anyways, so I do not see a benefit of using D21.. And even 0.5$ could become a lot of money, when we start producing a million sensebender micro mk2 :)
@tbowmo said in 8Bit or 32Bit processors:
It won't incorporate USB anyways, so I do not see a benefit of using D21.. And even 0.5$ could become a lot of money, when we start producing a million sensebender micro mk2 :)
Yes yes I'm not talking about the sensebender micro for which saving money for a feature you don't use makes sense. But for small scale production like in my appartment ? :D
