nRF5 action!

[NeverDie]

@Jokgi said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

@NeverDie Is there a schematic available?

Not that I've seen, but there is this, which has a bit more info: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/PTR9618PA-Nordic-nRF52832-Module-PA-module-BLE-4-0-Module-Free-shipping/130096_32758834433.html

Taken at face value, it seems to imply that the unit includes DCDC regulation, that it does not include an external low frequency oscillator, and that pin P0.24 is used to enable/disable the PA.

[Uhrheber]

@NeverDie The datasheet is here: http://www.freqchina.com/plus/view.php?aid=1083

(Click on the "Data" tab.)

[Uhrheber]

@NeverDie
I bought it used on ebay, for little money.
But generally you can assume that everything that comes with an N connector is meant for (semi-) professional use.

Conversely, avoid everything that comes with a reverse-SMA connector and/or a thin cable.
It's usually crap.

[NeverDie]

@Uhrheber said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

@NeverDie The datasheet is here: http://www.freqchina.com/plus/view.php?aid=1083

(Click on the "Data" tab.)

Thanks! Just in time too, as it looks as though pin P0.20 is reserved also.

I just now did a breakout board for it. If anyone is interested in it, I can post it.

[rmtucker]

Plugged my NRF51822 board into a cr2032 button battery and it is sending voltage/Rssi/Random Temperature every 1min.
Just to see how low it goes and how long.
I also changed my controller over to Grafana and influxdb/Node-red.
So far i am suitably impressed.

[NeverDie]

@rmtucker

What are you using as the "controller" then? Is it Node Red? The other two aren't listed on the Mysensors controller page.

[NeverDie]

@Uhrheber said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

Conversely, avoid everything that comes with a reverse-SMA connector and/or a thin cable.
It's usually crap.

I changed the connection from the nRF52832 to the 4w booster over to this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WGY8FJB/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and it was an improvement. I can't help but wonder now whether an even thicker cable would work even better? What's a good source for getting even better (and thicker) cabling solutions of this type?

[rmtucker]

@NeverDie
Yes Node-red is the controller which is saving data into influxdb and then displaying the data in grafana.
But i am also using the node-red dashboard for any actuator nodes etc as grafana is really just for viewing the data.

[Uhrheber]

@NeverDie It isn't possible to crimp a thicker wire to a U.FL connector.
Therefore you have to use a thin cable, but keep it as short as possible.
There are thin cables with lower loss, but they tend to be very expensive.

[Uhrheber]

@NeverDie For a development board, it could be interesting to drive LEDs with P0.20 and P0.24, because they'll show you exactly when the board sends or receives.

[Toyman]

What about "long-range" iBeacons like Skylab or RedBear ones? Do they have some kind of PA or their "long-range" is just a marketing gimmick?

[Omemanti]

Hi Guys,

Since this topic passed the 1000 posts, can someone tell me if the NRF5* , for mysensors, is worth diving into?

And could someone be so kind, to sum up some pro/cons?
Would be much appreciated since I wasn't able to follow since post 400.

[mfalkvidd]

@Omemanti this thread has very litte information related to MySensors, so you haven't missed much on that topic.

https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/6705/mysensors-nrf5-platform is better for MySensors-related stuff. But the summary is that you'll need to be prepared to do troubleshooting and maybe also some coding. Some things are known broken, and a lot of things are not well tested.

On the other hand, nrf5* is an interesting solution, and real-world testing would be very valuable for making the MySensors support better.

[NeverDie]

I think when the nRF52840 gets released and made widely available, most people will eventually want it. It's a game changer. Right now it's early adopters with the nRF52832 and nRF51822, but even those offer smaller size, better range, much faster computation, and better radio power consumption.

[Omemanti]

@NeverDie @mfalkvidd : Thnx!,,

@NeverDie ; what do you mean with gamechanger? a completely new standard? will it be able to talk with the nrf24 like the nrf52382, of do you need to start all over again with a blank sheet?

[NeverDie]

@Omemanti
Not sure I can explain it beyond pointing to the much longer range of the 840 together with gobs of memory. Each node could be its own webserver, for instance. Having been exposed to the nRF52832, I have no desire to go back to the old ways of doing things. Even PPI is a very powerful tool that just doesn't exist in the old architecture.

[Omemanti]

@NeverDie
So you would drop the NRF5382 for a 840?

[NeverDie]

@Omemanti

I don't think it will be either/or. It will be both. Pricing will probably favor the 52832. I'm even intrigued by the 51822, because you can buy it on a breakout for around $2.50, and it's very small, complete with a very small pcb antenna. I mean, where else can you find a complete system for that little money on such a small size? You can fit it in practically anywhere.

[d00616]

I'm not neutral ;-). I have ported MySensors to the NRF5 platform and completely reimplemented the NRF24 protocol, because at the point of starting Nordics License for the ESB protocol was not compatible with Open Source Licenses.

@Omemanti said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

Since this topic passed the 1000 posts, can someone tell me if the NRF5* , for mysensors, is worth diving into?

I you are able to do more than described in the MySensors example sketches, you should give it a try. It's a little bit more complicated than starting with ATMEGA based boards.

And could someone be so kind, to sum up some pro/cons?

Pros:

• Enough Flash and RAM
• Faster CPU
• periphery can do a lot of things while the CPU is sleeping (PPI, SHORTS)
• Small footprint of sensors
• Mostly free pin mapping in your Sketch
• NRF24 compatible
• Same price like ATMEGA + NRF24
• No bad clones like NRF24
• Better range than NRF24 (
• Flexibility to change the radio protocol
• BLE Long range, USB with the upcomming NRF52840
• Most complete 32 Bit implementation for MySensors (at the moment) supporting sleep(), hardware random numbers, soft signing and an internal EEPROM emulation without additional hardware.
• Great hardware included
• Can be mixed with other radio modules like NRF24 (useless but tested) or RFM (untested)
• Enough resources for better security concepts
• No need for ATSHA204 when you don't require read back protection. Enabling read back protection depends on OTA updates, which are not implemented at the moment.
• Well documented MCU's

Cons:

• Not all Arduino functionality available like EEPROM (available in MySensors or externaly via emulation), Tone library
• Maybe some bugs in the arduino implementation or radio implementation
• OTA firmware update is missing for MySensors, but it's possible
• BLE with MySensors is not supported/tested at the moment. I think BLE support needs a little bit of porting code to SoftDevice API
• Beta: Needs field testing
• Multiple NRF5 Arduino ports like (arduino-NRF5 or Primo). Only arduino-nrf5 without SoftDevice is supported at the moment.

Neutral:

• Radio is for 2.4GHz only which means less regulations but shorter transmit distance
• The NRF24 protocol isn't a good protocol for encryption or battery powered nodes permanently listening for packages, the protocol can be replaced in 100% NRF5 networks in the future

I think there is no future for 8 Bit Controllers in the Arduino world. If you want to do more without diving into the PROGMEM hell, then it's time to switch to 32 bit controllers. The NRF5 is an interesting and highly integrated choice for 2.4GHz networks.

My small home network is completely NRF5 based. From time to time a node stops receiving packages. The problem is known and documented by Nordic. I working on a fix.

There are some differences in timing between NRF24 and NRF5 which are no problem, I think. The NRF24 is ~12µs earlier in RX mode and the NRF5 is ~400µS earlier in TX mode. If this is a problem, it's catched by a retransmit. Instead of tuning this protocol, I think it's better to invest the time in creating a protocol which allows battery powered nodes to listen for packages and allowing better security than the NRF24 ESB protocol.

[Jokgi]

@NeverDie Check out the new nRF52810. It is a stripped down version of the nRF52840.. Not as much memory and the peripherals are lower in count. But it has a Cortex M4 (Not F) and some of the targets are sensors, wearable, beacons, etc. On air compatible with nRF24L series and nRF52 series. Some limitations on BT 5.0 however.