Recommendation for PCB fab?
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In case anyone is interested, here's a record of how much time each step in the fabrication took:
MI (Manufacture Instruction) 11/13/2017 10:04:37 AM Cut Lamination 11/13/2017 11:41:12 AM Drill 11/13/2017 11:44:05 AM Plated Through Hole 11/13/2017 3:12:32 PM Circuit 11/13/2017 4:07:36 PM Etching 11/13/2017 6:03:07 PM AOI 11/13/2017 7:33:56 PM Solder Mask 11/13/2017 7:34:02 PM Silkscreen 11/13/2017 9:20:59 PM Surface Treatment 11/13/2017 10:36:35 PM Double Drilling 11/14/2017 12:48:23 AM Routing 11/14/2017 4:23:57 AM Testing 11/14/2017 4:50:50 AM Package 11/14/2017 7:56:46 AMI had thought that maybe they could fabricate and ship on the same day, but apparently fabrication takes too long for that.
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I've started a second order through PCBway, and it appears that they start fabrication on a batch each day around 10 or 11am China time. If you get your order in and it passes their review before then, then most likely they'll start fabricating it that day. Otherwise, it appears that the order rolls over to the next day.
One nice feature is that you can keep adding new items to the order even after fabrication has started on some of them. In this case, the shipping cost on all the items is combined and the shipping deadline for the entire order is governed by the last item ordered.
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FWIW, I received this micro-USB test board from PCBway today:
As you can plainly see, it appears they had no difficulty fabricating the plated slots. In fact, they didn't even flag it as a possible issue. -
It seems there's a fast + good (enough) + cheap options now, AllPCB asks 5$ for 10 boards up to 100*100mm, it's limited to 1.6mm, green or white color (take the green, quality of the white silkscreen is not good, not fitting between pads of an atmega328 for example).
Doesn't sound like a great offer now, but there are some insane things :- the "top speed" option is included meaning your board are done in 2-3days after order
- there is free shipping with HK Post
- there is free shipping ... with DHL :open_mouth:
Result is boards received 6 days after placing orders, very impressive !
And good point I order 10 but for the biggest bord (98*98mm) I received 12, and for the smallest I received... 34 while with another small board I received around 20.So if you want to test your boards quickly and don't mind the 1.6mm thickness in green color, this is the perfect offer. Every option that you will select (color, thickness, panelization,...) will make the price increase quickly, but it's a good way to test functionality of your board quickly then order fancy colors/thickness etc from another fab when your board is completely designed.
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It seems there's a fast + good (enough) + cheap options now, AllPCB asks 5$ for 10 boards up to 100*100mm, it's limited to 1.6mm, green or white color (take the green, quality of the white silkscreen is not good, not fitting between pads of an atmega328 for example).
Doesn't sound like a great offer now, but there are some insane things :- the "top speed" option is included meaning your board are done in 2-3days after order
- there is free shipping with HK Post
- there is free shipping ... with DHL :open_mouth:
Result is boards received 6 days after placing orders, very impressive !
And good point I order 10 but for the biggest bord (98*98mm) I received 12, and for the smallest I received... 34 while with another small board I received around 20.So if you want to test your boards quickly and don't mind the 1.6mm thickness in green color, this is the perfect offer. Every option that you will select (color, thickness, panelization,...) will make the price increase quickly, but it's a good way to test functionality of your board quickly then order fancy colors/thickness etc from another fab when your board is completely designed.
@Nca78 Great post! Thank you. I ordered a PCB from them to see if they can handle plated slots. So far it appears they can: it passed their review without comment, and it's now in fabrication.
Just curious: is there any particular reason to think 1.6mm isn't thick enough for the final board rather than just a test board? I mean, maybe for BGA, but I don't think anyone here is using that.
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Warning: do NOT make boards with white solder mask at AllPCB, keep the green color as it's the only cheap color available.
I had all sorts of problems with boards made in white, I probably have a design problem with that board but the solder mask that peels away too easily (and pads following closely !) make it hard to solder a QFN component correctly.No problem with green color until now.
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Warning: do NOT make boards with white solder mask at AllPCB, keep the green color as it's the only cheap color available.
I had all sorts of problems with boards made in white, I probably have a design problem with that board but the solder mask that peels away too easily (and pads following closely !) make it hard to solder a QFN component correctly.No problem with green color until now.
@nca78 It was great while it lasted. They just raised their rates from $5 to $20, including the DHL shipping. :sob:
I could place my order on Monday and receive it on Friday, all for $5. Knew it wouldn't last though. Like you say, their pricing was "insane." In a way, I suppose it still is.
[Edit: Correction, the old deal is still good. :) It's for 5 pieces now instead of 10. Get it while it lasts!]
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@nca78 It was great while it lasted. They just raised their rates from $5 to $20, including the DHL shipping. :sob:
I could place my order on Monday and receive it on Friday, all for $5. Knew it wouldn't last though. Like you say, their pricing was "insane." In a way, I suppose it still is.
[Edit: Correction, the old deal is still good. :) It's for 5 pieces now instead of 10. Get it while it lasts!]
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@neverdie Limited 50mm x 50mm at 5$, 100x100 15$. So, for small pcb price is same. For bigger, price is insane bytheway including DHL ship. From China to Italy, 3 days. Fantastic!
@sineverba said in Recommendation for PCB fab?:
@neverdie Limited 50mm x 50mm at 5$, 100x100 15$. So, for small pcb price is same. For bigger, price is insane bytheway including DHL ship. From China to Italy, 3 days. Fantastic!
Looks like a strategy for them. Start with extremely low price, then add restrictions in a progressive way, and people will accept to pay more and more because "it's still cheap" for the DHL version. But right now there is no "cheap" option, and if you order 3 PCBs bigger than 5*5cm you're at the same price than other manufacturers, even including the DHL shipping.
And if you're not in a hurry it's way cheaper to select HK Post with Elecrow from the first PCB. -
Argh. AllPCB raised their prices again. Looks like the $5 deal is totally gone now. Now it's $12-14 for 5 small PCB's.
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Argh. AllPCB raised their prices again. Looks like the $5 deal is totally gone now. Now it's $12-14 for 5 small PCB's.
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@sineverba That's true. From that point of view, it's still not bad. Before long that will probably change too.
I knew this was coming, which is why I got a CNC PCB etcher. Hopefully I can push some of the early design cycles onto it, which will let me spend bigger $$$ on fast turnaround services toward the end. Waiting 4-7 days to receive an order from AllPCB isn't bad. It's the 3-4 week waits that really kill momentum.
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@sineverba That's true. From that point of view, it's still not bad. Before long that will probably change too.
I knew this was coming, which is why I got a CNC PCB etcher. Hopefully I can push some of the early design cycles onto it, which will let me spend bigger $$$ on fast turnaround services toward the end. Waiting 4-7 days to receive an order from AllPCB isn't bad. It's the 3-4 week waits that really kill momentum.
@neverdie i did not understand..... allpcb ship to me in 1 or 2 day, and shipment take 3 day. I order monday, i receive friday (on italy).... they did augment also the time fabrication?
Do you have a machine to print pcb??? :D where are you from??? :D
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@neverdie i did not understand..... allpcb ship to me in 1 or 2 day, and shipment take 3 day. I order monday, i receive friday (on italy).... they did augment also the time fabrication?
Do you have a machine to print pcb??? :D where are you from??? :D
@sineverba said in Recommendation for PCB fab?:
allpcb ship to me in 1 or 2 day, and shipment take 3 day. I order monday, i receive friday (on italy).
Yes, it's the same for me.
@sineverba said in Recommendation for PCB fab?:
Do you have a machine to print pcb??? where are you from???
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I use EasyEDA which since I ordered before has 5 boards for $2 US for the first board and $5 for additional ones, but they charge shipping. Fast shipping with DHL for me is $18. Slow shipping is just under $10.
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Received another order from AllPCB this morning, I made the order on Friday afternoon. Still really impressive. And as with the previous order no custom tax meaning also no fee from DHL.
Now I need to hurry up designing small PCBs before they stop this offer, I would be surprised if it survived the lunar new year...@dbemowsk said in Recommendation for PCB fab?:
I use EasyEDA which since I ordered before has 5 boards for $2 US for the first board and $5 for additional ones, but they charge shipping. Fast shipping with DHL for me is $18. Slow shipping is just under $10.
In the end the 2$/5 boards is pretty deceptive IMHO, it seems whatever option you choose on EasyEDA you end up paying more than most other suppliers.
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I use EasyEDA which since I ordered before has 5 boards for $2 US for the first board and $5 for additional ones, but they charge shipping. Fast shipping with DHL for me is $18. Slow shipping is just under $10.
@dbemowsk said in Recommendation for PCB fab?:
I use EasyEDA which since I ordered before has 5 boards for $2 US for the first board and $5 for additional ones, but they charge shipping. Fast shipping with DHL for me is $18. Slow shipping is just under $10.
It looks as though EasyEDA may have a tool to help with panelizing. Does EasyEDA charge extra for panelizing? So far, only dirtypcb's was mentioned as a source that doesn't charge extra for panelized boards.
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I uploaded a 29mmx29mm pcb to easyeda, and it appeared to allow me to panelize that at 3x3 per 100mmx100mm panel at no extra charge. So, that would be 45 pieces for the regular price. I don't know how that compares to dirtypcb's, but it is very easy to do: you simply check the box next to "Panel by EasyEDA" under advanced options and then select the number of rows and columns that you want per board. Not sure if it would work for circular cut PCB's that are panelized or whether it just v-grooves some rectangles for you to break them apart yourself.
Also, DHL express would be $18.41 to my location, and $9.9 for airmail, which they seem to discourage. $2 total for the boards. i.e. you get a more precise (lower) shipping cost when you enter your address than you do on the general quote page.
Not sure if you can panelize more than one type of pcb, or whether it needs to all be one type. Hopefully? I don't ever seem to need 45 of any one thing.
[Edit: revisited it, and it looks like I could get 10 panels (90 pieces) for the same price. ]
[Edit2: And I did the same with a smaller board, where it let me do a 4x4 per panel. So, that's 160 PCB's for the regular price, which seems great, if I actually needed 160 PCB's.]
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Argh I missed your previous message @NeverDie, went to AllPCB hoping to still enjoy a 5$ PCB but the lower you can get to is 11$ but for that you need a very small PCB, a 49*49mm like I planned to make is 14$, and you have to pay for every little change you make. Want 10 boards ? +1$. Want another colour than green or white ? +9$
So, bye bye AllPCB it was a great offer, but I'll switch back to the other companies...
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Argh I missed your previous message @NeverDie, went to AllPCB hoping to still enjoy a 5$ PCB but the lower you can get to is 11$ but for that you need a very small PCB, a 49*49mm like I planned to make is 14$, and you have to pay for every little change you make. Want 10 boards ? +1$. Want another colour than green or white ? +9$
So, bye bye AllPCB it was a great offer, but I'll switch back to the other companies...
@nca78 Pricing doesn't seem so bad if you need a lot of something. For instance, to order just 5 of a PCB that's 46mmx67mm, it would cost me $15. But to get 20 of the same PCB it would cost me $20. i.e. the incremental costs are quite low.
