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Windows GUI/Controller for MySensors

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  • rvendrameR Offline
    rvendrameR Offline
    rvendrame
    Hero Member
    wrote on last edited by
    #164

    @tekka said:

    an you post the verbose mode output as comparison?

    Sure, here it is. Very similar (including the size of .hex file)... strange...

    /Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/bin/avrdude -C/Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf -v -patmega328p -cstk500v1 -P/dev/cu.usbmodem1421 -b19200 -e -Ulock:w:0x3F:m -Uefuse:w:0x05:m -Uhfuse:w:0xDA:m -Ulfuse:w:0xFF:m 
    
    avrdude: Version 6.0.1, compiled on Apr 14 2015 at 16:30:25
             Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Brian Dean, http://www.bdmicro.com/
             Copyright (c) 2007-2009 Joerg Wunsch
    
             System wide configuration file is "/Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf"
             User configuration file is "/Users/i007897/.avrduderc"
             User configuration file does not exist or is not a regular file, skipping
    
             Using Port                    : /dev/cu.usbmodem1421
             Using Programmer              : stk500v1
             Overriding Baud Rate          : 19200
             AVR Part                      : ATmega328P
             Chip Erase delay              : 9000 us
             PAGEL                         : PD7
             BS2                           : PC2
             RESET disposition             : dedicated
             RETRY pulse                   : SCK
             serial program mode           : yes
             parallel program mode         : yes
             Timeout                       : 200
             StabDelay                     : 100
             CmdexeDelay                   : 25
             SyncLoops                     : 32
             ByteDelay                     : 0
             PollIndex                     : 3
             PollValue                     : 0x53
             Memory Detail                 :
    
                                      Block Poll               Page                       Polled
               Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  MaxW   ReadBack
               ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ----- ---------
               eeprom        65    20     4    0 no       1024    4      0  3600  3600 0xff 0xff
               flash         65     6   128    0 yes     32768  128    256  4500  4500 0xff 0xff
               lfuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
               hfuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
               efuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
               lock           0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
               calibration    0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0     0     0 0x00 0x00
               signature      0     0     0    0 no          3    0      0     0     0 0x00 0x00
    
             Programmer Type : STK500
             Description     : Atmel STK500 Version 1.x firmware
             Hardware Version: 2
             Firmware Version: 1.18
             Topcard         : Unknown
             Vtarget         : 0.0 V
             Varef           : 0.0 V
             Oscillator      : Off
             SCK period      : 0.1 us
    
    avrdude: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions
    
    Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.05s
    
    avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e950f
    avrdude: erasing chip
    avrdude: reading input file "0x3F"
    avrdude: writing lock (1 bytes):
    
    Writing | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s
    
    avrdude: 1 bytes of lock written
    avrdude: verifying lock memory against 0x3F:
    avrdude: load data lock data from input file 0x3F:
    avrdude: input file 0x3F contains 1 bytes
    avrdude: reading on-chip lock data:
    
    Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s
    
    avrdude: verifying ...
    avrdude: 1 bytes of lock verified
    avrdude: reading input file "0x05"
    avrdude: writing efuse (1 bytes):
    
    Writing | ################################################## | 100% 0.06s
    
    avrdude: 1 bytes of efuse written
    avrdude: verifying efuse memory against 0x05:
    avrdude: load data efuse data from input file 0x05:
    avrdude: input file 0x05 contains 1 bytes
    avrdude: reading on-chip efuse data:
    
    Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s
    
    avrdude: verifying ...
    avrdude: 1 bytes of efuse verified
    avrdude: reading input file "0xDA"
    avrdude: writing hfuse (1 bytes):
    
    Writing | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s
    
    avrdude: 1 bytes of hfuse written
    avrdude: verifying hfuse memory against 0xDA:
    avrdude: load data hfuse data from input file 0xDA:
    avrdude: input file 0xDA contains 1 bytes
    avrdude: reading on-chip hfuse data:
    
    Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s
    
    avrdude: verifying ...
    avrdude: 1 bytes of hfuse verified
    avrdude: reading input file "0xFF"
    avrdude: writing lfuse (1 bytes):
    
    Writing | ################################################## | 100% 0.06s
    
    avrdude: 1 bytes of lfuse written
    avrdude: verifying lfuse memory against 0xFF:
    avrdude: load data lfuse data from input file 0xFF:
    avrdude: input file 0xFF contains 1 bytes
    avrdude: reading on-chip lfuse data:
    
    Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s
    
    avrdude: verifying ...
    avrdude: 1 bytes of lfuse verified
    
    avrdude done.  Thank you.
    
    /Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/bin/avrdude -C/Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf -v -patmega328p -cstk500v1 -P/dev/cu.usbmodem1421 -b19200 -Uflash:w:/Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/arduino/avr/bootloaders/atmega/ATmegaBOOT_168_atmega328.hex:i -Ulock:w:0x0F:m 
    
    avrdude: Version 6.0.1, compiled on Apr 14 2015 at 16:30:25
             Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Brian Dean, http://www.bdmicro.com/
             Copyright (c) 2007-2009 Joerg Wunsch
    
             System wide configuration file is "/Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf"
             User configuration file is "/Users/i007897/.avrduderc"
             User configuration file does not exist or is not a regular file, skipping
    
             Using Port                    : /dev/cu.usbmodem1421
             Using Programmer              : stk500v1
             Overriding Baud Rate          : 19200
             AVR Part                      : ATmega328P
             Chip Erase delay              : 9000 us
             PAGEL                         : PD7
             BS2                           : PC2
             RESET disposition             : dedicated
             RETRY pulse                   : SCK
             serial program mode           : yes
             parallel program mode         : yes
             Timeout                       : 200
             StabDelay                     : 100
             CmdexeDelay                   : 25
             SyncLoops                     : 32
             ByteDelay                     : 0
             PollIndex                     : 3
             PollValue                     : 0x53
             Memory Detail                 :
    
                                      Block Poll               Page                       Polled
               Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  MaxW   ReadBack
               ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ----- ---------
               eeprom        65    20     4    0 no       1024    4      0  3600  3600 0xff 0xff
               flash         65     6   128    0 yes     32768  128    256  4500  4500 0xff 0xff
               lfuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
               hfuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
               efuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
               lock           0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  4500  4500 0x00 0x00
               calibration    0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0     0     0 0x00 0x00
               signature      0     0     0    0 no          3    0      0     0     0 0x00 0x00
    
             Programmer Type : STK500
             Description     : Atmel STK500 Version 1.x firmware
             Hardware Version: 2
             Firmware Version: 1.18
             Topcard         : Unknown
             Vtarget         : 0.0 V
             Varef           : 0.0 V
             Oscillator      : Off
             SCK period      : 0.1 us
    
    avrdude: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions
    
    Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.05s
    
    avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e950f
    avrdude: NOTE: "flash" memory has been specified, an erase cycle will be performed
             To disable this feature, specify the -D option.
    avrdude: erasing chip
    avrdude: reading input file "/Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/arduino/avr/bootloaders/atmega/ATmegaBOOT_168_atmega328.hex"
    avrdude: writing flash (32670 bytes):
    
    Writing | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s
    
    avrdude: 32670 bytes of flash written
    avrdude: verifying flash memory against /Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/arduino/avr/bootloaders/atmega/ATmegaBOOT_168_atmega328.hex:
    avrdude: load data flash data from input file /Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/arduino/avr/bootloaders/atmega/ATmegaBOOT_168_atmega328.hex:
    avrdude: input file /Applications/Arduino 1.6.4.app/Contents/Java/hardware/arduino/avr/bootloaders/atmega/ATmegaBOOT_168_atmega328.hex contains 32670 bytes
    avrdude: reading on-chip flash data:
    
    Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.00s
    
    avrdude: verifying ...
    avrdude: 32670 bytes of flash verified
    avrdude: reading input file "0x0F"
    avrdude: writing lock (1 bytes):
    
    Writing | ################################################## | 100% 0.05s
    
    avrdude: 1 bytes of lock written
    avrdude: verifying lock memory against 0x0F:
    avrdude: load data lock data from input file 0x0F:
    avrdude: input file 0x0F contains 1 bytes
    avrdude: reading on-chip lock data:
    
    Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s
    
    avrdude: verifying ...
    avrdude: 1 bytes of lock verified
    
    avrdude done.  Thank you.
    

    Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
    ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
    Alexa / Google Home

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    0
    • scalzS Offline
      scalzS Offline
      scalz
      Hardware Contributor
      wrote on last edited by
      #165

      @rvendrame: when you try to upload a sketch, do you use ftdi? because I think you can't upload with ftdi in MYSBootloader. just ota. I looked quickly at the code. Am I right @tekka ? If you want ota+ftdi options, you must use dualoptiboot.

      tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • scalzS scalz

        @rvendrame: when you try to upload a sketch, do you use ftdi? because I think you can't upload with ftdi in MYSBootloader. just ota. I looked quickly at the code. Am I right @tekka ? If you want ota+ftdi options, you must use dualoptiboot.

        tekkaT Offline
        tekkaT Offline
        tekka
        Admin
        wrote on last edited by tekka
        #166

        @scalz: for flashing bootloaders you have to communicate to the MCU via SPI (e.g. via USBasp, ArduinoISP, Atmel STK500, etc.) but not the usual (ftdi) serial interface.
        MYSBootloader 1.1 supports only OTA sketch uploads (at the moment), this is right - but not related to the issue of @rvendrame

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • rvendrameR Offline
          rvendrameR Offline
          rvendrame
          Hero Member
          wrote on last edited by rvendrame
          #167

          @scalz , @tekka, I'm using "Arduino as ISP" to burn the bootloader. I have my arduino Uno connected to mac via USB, and running on it the "ArduinoISP" sketch delivered with IDE.

          The pins VCC, GND, 11, 12, 13 from Uno are connected to same pins of the pro-mini (the one being programmed). Pin 10 from uno goes to pro-mini's reset pin.

          In summary, this scenario. It works perfectly for the standard pro-mini bootloader. I had success with both 3.3V and 5V versions.

          To upload my sketches: I understand that I have to compile it, move the generated .hex file to the MYSController "Firmware" folder, and load it via 'Node -> Assign FW' . I did it this part with some sense benders that I have here, and it worked perfectly --- That made me thinking in re-flashing all pro-minis that I have with MYSbootloader ;-)

          The problem is that my pro-minis get 'bricked' after burning the MYSbootloader --- pin led flashes randomly , no serial-monitor, I don't think they are really running.

          Just to be 100% sure --- I just need the pro-mini itself connected during the "Tools -> Burn bootloader" ? No radio, no extra eprom, no atsha, ... right?

          I tried to connect the radio to pro-mini after I burned the MYS, as a last desperated try (who know it would 'wake up' ). But no joy ;-)

          Thx!

          Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
          ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
          Alexa / Google Home

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • rvendrameR Offline
            rvendrameR Offline
            rvendrame
            Hero Member
            wrote on last edited by
            #168

            @scalz, @tekka, maybe if I re-compile the MYSbootloader to match my current fuses? I was trying to find a how-to, but could not find anything related. Perhaps you can give me some guidance on that too?

            Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
            ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
            Alexa / Google Home

            tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • F Offline
              F Offline
              f1dev
              wrote on last edited by
              #169

              Very interesting, I´m having the exact issues with my pro minis.. It would be very helpful with a " how-to" to compile the Mysbootloader for pro minis 3.3V 8mhz.

              Kindly

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • rvendrameR Offline
                rvendrameR Offline
                rvendrame
                Hero Member
                wrote on last edited by
                #170

                @f1dev, I'm just trying to thinking 'out of the box'. I really don't know why the MYSBootloader doesn't work (while the original arduino bootloader does).

                @scalz, @tekka, looking at MYSBootloader makefile at github, I noticed you are using

                ISP_PORT = com5
                ISP_SPEED = 115200
                ISP_PROTOCOL = stk500v2
                ISP_MCU = m328p 
                
                

                Well, my 'Arduino as ISP' only work as 'stk500v1' and 19200 bps --- Any other combination causes the "Yikes! invalid signature found" in avrdude, or no response at all (time-out). Could be that a different avr itself would introduce "strange bytes" during bootloader burning?

                Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
                ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
                Alexa / Google Home

                tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • rvendrameR rvendrame

                  @scalz, @tekka, maybe if I re-compile the MYSbootloader to match my current fuses? I was trying to find a how-to, but could not find anything related. Perhaps you can give me some guidance on that too?

                  tekkaT Offline
                  tekkaT Offline
                  tekka
                  Admin
                  wrote on last edited by tekka
                  #171

                  @rvendrame let me try some things here - can you make sure, that the MYSBootloader your are trying to flash is the one from the library and/or MYSController folder (maybe you can upload it here)?
                  Importantly, there is no need to re-compile MYSBootloader as it has been successfully tested down to 3.3V and 125kHz pro-minis (!). Can you please update your Arduino IDE to 1.6.5 so that we both run the same version?

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • rvendrameR rvendrame

                    @f1dev, I'm just trying to thinking 'out of the box'. I really don't know why the MYSBootloader doesn't work (while the original arduino bootloader does).

                    @scalz, @tekka, looking at MYSBootloader makefile at github, I noticed you are using

                    ISP_PORT = com5
                    ISP_SPEED = 115200
                    ISP_PROTOCOL = stk500v2
                    ISP_MCU = m328p 
                    
                    

                    Well, my 'Arduino as ISP' only work as 'stk500v1' and 19200 bps --- Any other combination causes the "Yikes! invalid signature found" in avrdude, or no response at all (time-out). Could be that a different avr itself would introduce "strange bytes" during bootloader burning?

                    tekkaT Offline
                    tekkaT Offline
                    tekka
                    Admin
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #172

                    @rvendrame the speed is not really an issue here - the bytes are verified after flashing...

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • rvendrameR Offline
                      rvendrameR Offline
                      rvendrame
                      Hero Member
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #173

                      @tekka, thank you so much. I have downloaded the .hex again from github, just for the sake. Anyway it is here MYSBootloader.hex I'm using.

                      Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
                      ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
                      Alexa / Google Home

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • rvendrameR rvendrame

                        Hello guys, I'm trying to burn the MYSBootloader.hex into some Pro minis (clones) here, however after burning it, they get somehow 'bricked' :

                        • I'm using my Uno "as ISP" on IDE 1.6.4
                        • I've followed the step-by-step tutorial posted above by @tekka
                        • My pro-minis are 5V, 16Mhz, external clock , 328p, supposedly a perfect match with 'boards.txt' info...
                        • "Burn bootloader" ends successful, with "Done burning boot loader" message.
                        • After that, the pro-mini pin 13 led flashes in a kind of random pattern, and it is not possible to upload any sketch, nor any kind of serial monitor on any speed.
                        • I can revert it, by selecting the standard 'Arduino Pro or Pro Mini' board , and burn boot loader again. It makes the pro-mini gets back to live, I can upload my sketches and serial monitor it.

                        So my questions:

                        • I don't have extra eprom connected --- Is it mandatory? I've read somewhere that it can be disabled, but can't find the instructions anymore...
                        • Fuse adjustments?
                        • What else can I do in order to troubleshooting it?

                        Thanks!

                        tekkaT Offline
                        tekkaT Offline
                        tekka
                        Admin
                        wrote on last edited by tekka
                        #174

                        @rvendrame said:

                        Hello guys, I'm trying to burn the MYSBootloader.hex into some Pro minis (clones) here, however after burning it, they get somehow 'bricked' :

                        • I'm using my Uno "as ISP" on IDE 1.6.4
                        • I've followed the step-by-step tutorial posted above by @tekka
                        • My pro-minis are 5V, 16Mhz, external clock , 328p, supposedly a perfect match with 'boards.txt' info...
                        • "Burn bootloader" ends successful, with "Done burning boot loader" message.
                        • After that, the pro-mini pin 13 led flashes in a kind of random pattern, and it is not possible to upload any sketch, nor any kind of serial monitor on any speed.
                        • I can revert it, by selecting the standard 'Arduino Pro or Pro Mini' board , and burn boot loader again. It makes the pro-mini gets back to live, I can upload my sketches and serial monitor it.

                        So my questions:

                        • I don't have extra eprom connected --- Is it mandatory? I've read somewhere that it can be disabled, but can't find the instructions anymore...
                        • Fuse adjustments?
                        • What else can I do in order to troubleshooting it?

                        Thanks!

                        How do you know that the bootloader is not functioning properly? you connected the RF module as mentioned earlier? The led is blinking irregularly due to SPI...Do you get a startup message (from MYSBootloader) in MYSController?

                        The 327xx bytes mentioned in verbose mode are correct - the entire flash is overwritten...

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • rvendrameR Offline
                          rvendrameR Offline
                          rvendrame
                          Hero Member
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #175

                          Yes, I connect the radio and start the node, but nothing happens --- No serial monitor, nothing in MYSController. Just the pin 13 led flashing randomly.

                          Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
                          ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
                          Alexa / Google Home

                          tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • rvendrameR rvendrame

                            Yes, I connect the radio and start the node, but nothing happens --- No serial monitor, nothing in MYSController. Just the pin 13 led flashing randomly.

                            tekkaT Offline
                            tekkaT Offline
                            tekka
                            Admin
                            wrote on last edited by tekka
                            #176

                            @rvendrame said:

                            Yes, I connect the radio and start the node, but nothing happens --- No serial monitor, nothing in MYSController. Just the pin 13 led flashing randomly.

                            Just flashed MYSController.hex on my Arduino pro mini 3V3 and the fuses as mentioned in the boards.txt (L: 0xF7 E: 0x06 H: 0xDA), using USBasp and everything works smoothly...

                            Please keep in mind: There is no serial monitor for MYSBootloader and the 13 led flashing is normal

                            Can you try this (in the indicated order):
                            0) Update Arduino IDE to 1.6.5

                            1. burn the original bootloader and upload the clear eeprom sketch
                            2. burn MYSController, disconnect flasher and connect nRF24L01+ module
                            3. download the most recent MySensors 1.5 library and upload the GW sketch
                            4. launch MYSController 0.1.2.282, activate AutoID, Logging and connect to the serial GW
                            5. let it run for a few mins and upload the log-file here
                            rvendrameR 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • rvendrameR Offline
                              rvendrameR Offline
                              rvendrame
                              Hero Member
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #177

                              @tekka, just to clarify, in step 4 above - the 'upload GW sketch' should be OTA? Or via regular FT232 adapter?

                              Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
                              ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
                              Alexa / Google Home

                              tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • scalzS Offline
                                scalzS Offline
                                scalz
                                Hardware Contributor
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #178

                                @rvendrame: I think it is ota. With MYSBootloader you can't use ftdi for uploading sketch.

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                                0
                                • rvendrameR Offline
                                  rvendrameR Offline
                                  rvendrame
                                  Hero Member
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #179

                                  @scalz, thx. I will give it a try tonight.

                                  Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
                                  ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
                                  Alexa / Google Home

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • rvendrameR rvendrame

                                    @tekka, just to clarify, in step 4 above - the 'upload GW sketch' should be OTA? Or via regular FT232 adapter?

                                    tekkaT Offline
                                    tekkaT Offline
                                    tekka
                                    Admin
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #180

                                    @rvendrame said:

                                    @tekka, just to clarify, in step 4 above - the 'upload GW sketch' should be OTA? Or via regular FT232 adapter?

                                    I meant to update the Gateway node with the most recent Serialgateway sketch...

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                                    • rvendrameR Offline
                                      rvendrameR Offline
                                      rvendrame
                                      Hero Member
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #181

                                      @tekka said:

                                      I meant to update the Gateway node with the most recent Serialgateway sketch...

                                      Yep, I'm already on latest version on GW. My GW runs on a pro-mini, with standard bootloader --- I guess this is not a issue?

                                      Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
                                      ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
                                      Alexa / Google Home

                                      tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • rvendrameR rvendrame

                                        @tekka said:

                                        I meant to update the Gateway node with the most recent Serialgateway sketch...

                                        Yep, I'm already on latest version on GW. My GW runs on a pro-mini, with standard bootloader --- I guess this is not a issue?

                                        tekkaT Offline
                                        tekkaT Offline
                                        tekka
                                        Admin
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #182

                                        @rvendrame said:

                                        @tekka said:

                                        I meant to update the Gateway node with the most recent Serialgateway sketch...

                                        Yep, I'm already on latest version on GW. My GW runs on a pro-mini, with standard bootloader --- I guess this is not a issue?

                                        and MYSController is connected via USB/FTDI to the GW...?

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • rvendrameR Offline
                                          rvendrameR Offline
                                          rvendrame
                                          Hero Member
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #183

                                          @tekka said:

                                          and MYSController is connected via USB/FTDI to the GW...?

                                          It is connected via USB/FTDI into a mac-mini running a TCP-to-serial SW. (so both Vera and MYSController can reach it using IP address). Works like a charm, I can see all nodes and messages, no connection issues so far.

                                          Is it required the GW running on MYSBootloader? I hope not...

                                          Home Assistant / Vera Plus UI7
                                          ESP8266 GW + mySensors 2.3.2
                                          Alexa / Google Home

                                          tekkaT 1 Reply Last reply
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