Everything nRF52840

monte

There seems to be https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-BLEPeripheral library. I tried it some time ago, it was working pretty straightforward. I mean it's not ideal, obviously, but it works for a start.

heinzv

anybody seen this new Nordic IoT MCU:
https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wireless/nRF5340

So far only a DK board for 49$ is available. Has BLE 5.1 (incl. long range).
I guess it will take some time till it is supported by Arduiono, Platformio etc.

I'm still striggling with the nRF52840 and the low power sleep. So far I'm far away from the 1.5 to 5uA in sleep mode. Maybe someone has a good example for a sleep, internal timer wake-up.
The mysensors project I'm using has 1,5mA in sleep and 15mA during sensor read and send. That is not usable for battery mode.

monte

@heinzv try powering off all peripherals that was used before sleep.
The best source of information concerning nrf5 chips is Nordic's devzone. For example look at this thread: https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/45355/how-optimize-high-current-consumption-in-sleep-mode-using-nrf52840.
As far as I'm concerned nrf52 library for Arduino contains Nordic SDK, so every function mentioned in Nordic's tutorials and examples should work with Arduino IDE.

heinzv

@monte thanks for your hints. I have actually no peripherals attached during my test. The only external peripheral is a Sensirion sensor (not attched during the power save test) has an auto switch off, but no explicit and it gets down to nano amps.(at least far less than 1uA).
I did a lot of research in the Nordic DevZone but was not successfull. It looks like that the mySensors sleep functions for the nRF52 family does not work as I have expected (I'm using the MyBoardNRF5.h/cpp which includes some kind of Nordic power save features). It might have something doto with the UART switchoff which might not works or ...
I'll also try other nRF52840 moduls to ensure it is not because of one product. I'm using a bare nRF52840 from RFstar which has no LED or any other consumer on it.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921970101.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.33f77b08ivGnJC&algo_pvid=834cd241-fead-40dd-a423-762eeaad1e6b&algo_expid=834cd241-fead-40dd-a423-762eeaad1e6b-29&btsid=7de062ad-ecfb-4619-bea6-f9bc99c99996&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_8,searchweb201603_52

Nca78

@heinzv said in Everything nRF52840:

anybody seen this new Nordic IoT MCU:
https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wireless/nRF5340

Looks like NRF52832 is replaced with nrf52833 also, 128K RAM and same radio than nrf52840 allowing the same protocols (zigbee/thread), the same max input voltage (5.5V) and adding bluetooth 5.1. Interesting if it can replace nrf52832 in existing modules.

monte

@heinzv by peripherals I mean UART, SPI, I2C and other modules, that can be switched off in NRF52840. Going to sleep mode doesn't disable them, they will still drain current. And as you mentioned by yourself Mysensors sleep function can't be trusted either for doing this for you. I think the best practice will be writing your own sleep function using Nordic's macroses. This way you can be sure everything that needs to be turned off is turned off.
Try reading this thread: https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/f/nordic-q-a/1657/how-to-minimize-current-consumption-for-ble-application-on-nrf51822.

NeverDie

Andreas Spiess recently gave his review on on the two new Arduino "nano" 33 BLE offerings (which use the nRF2840):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GLXSebQVCE

He seems cautiously optimistic about the BLE 33s. From his perspective, now that the hardware is being sold, the onus is on Arduino to make the Arduino hardware libraries run on it in a transparent way, just like all the other Arduino's that we're all familiar with. Hopefully that does happen. In the meantime, and even if it doesn't, there are the mBed libraries.

The only reasons he gives for preferring the ESP32 over the Arduino BLE 33's are the ESP32's faster speed, larger memory, and the ability to do OTA firmware updates. As for where the nRF52840 scores big over the ESP32, the things he mentioned were that it consumes much less power and it can be a USB host.

I'm hoping that BLE 33 OTA firmware updates will be solved by somebody soon and made available as part of the Arduino IDE, just as it eventually was for the ESP8266. I mean Nordic already has a highly secure FOTA, so it just needs to be exposed in a way that people can easily use it through the Arduino IDE. If that never happens, then I'd wager the lack of it will kill the BLE 33. Likewise, if it does happen, it may very well propel BLE 33's success.

Interestingly, Andreas points to a $5 nRF52 Ebyte module as a cost equalizer, so he doesn't seem to see cost as a discriminator, especially not in the long term.

By the way, and unrelated to the above, there is now yet another radio standard vying for IOT adoption. This one, made by Radiocraft: https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/techzone/2019/sep/how-to-quickly-start-low-power-wireless-iot-sensing The energy performance specs sound maybe better than LoRa or SigFox, so who knows? It can do OTA firmware updates by the way. With the marketplace becoming more crowded, FOTA is now an important must-have for being taken seriously. Why do I say that? Any vendor who has a FOTA is devoting at least one entire slide to it in their marketing presentations.

mfalkvidd

I wonder how RIIoT gets 3x the range of LoRaWAN, at a speed that is 17x higher. They have about 17dB better link budget?

alowhum

@NeverDie Thanks for the summary :-)

Andreas Spiess also never takes things like privacy, and to a lesser degree security, into consideration when he talks about things. For that reason I boycott anything that uses IoT and Wifi in the same sentence.

NeverDie

I found a good place to do range testing.... too bad I didn't bring the gear!

NeverDie

The nRF53840 PDK announced: https://www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/nRF5340PDKPB.pdf

However, so far I haven't seen even a preliminary datasheet for the nRF53840. The closest I've seen is what's in the above PDF. Based on that, it will be a dual processor arrangement, with the faster processor having 512K RAM. It describes the network processor as "ultra low power," which is also how it describes the 2.4ghz radio. So, it sounds as though the theme will mainly be utilizing less power than the nRF52840.

monte

Found this repo: https://github.com/xriss/nrfx. It has standalone nrf peripheral drivers extracted from an SDK so they can be used in any project without using actual Nordic SDK.
Now with release of a PineTime (opensource smart watch based on nrf52832) we can expect many wonderful opensource projects with our beloved MCU :)

NeverDie

@monte Is PineTime the best of the currently available nRF52 watch options? If so, since it's offered at $24.99, I think I may want to order one.

Nca78

@monte said in Everything nRF52840:

Found this repo: https://github.com/xriss/nrfx

Gone already ...

@NeverDie said in Everything nRF52840:

@monte Is PineTime the best of the currently available nRF52 watch options? If so, since it's offered at $24.99, I think I may want to order one.

A very interesting project, too bad they are using NRF52832 and not NRF52840, the max SPI speed on ...32 is too low (8MHz) and I'm afraid the LCD refresh will be annoyingly slow :(

NeverDie

@Nca78 Good point! I guess one could take the shell and components and insert a custom pcb that uses nRF52840... But that would be extra work. A pity they didn't go that route in the first place.

It does look perhaps a bit big:
alt text

alowhum

From what I heard Pine was thinking about upgrading the watch to the NRF52840?

NeverDie

@alowhum said in Everything nRF52840:

From what I heard Pine was thinking about upgrading the watch to the NRF52840?

Maybe so. Their website does say: "Note: Final revision may use higher powered hardware including the nRF52840 and/or 16 MB of storage rather than 8 MB."

On the other hand, what's currently on sale in their store is an nRF52832: https://store.pine64.org/?product=pinetime-dev-kit

scalz

@NeverDie said in Everything nRF52840:

@monte Is PineTime the best of the currently available nRF52 watch options? If so, since it's offered at $24.99, I think I may want to order one.

There is also the BangleJs/NodeWatch (52832) which is bulkier, more expensive too but with more features, than pinetime. Personally when bulky, I prefer a round shape..still it's quite big, and certainly needs care on UI (round shape vs square display).
This is a very nice project for BLE based smartwatch I think, they have done lot of work on software.

monte

@Nca78 said in Everything nRF52840:

Gone already ...

Strange. Yesterday this guy was mentioned in twitter by a Pine64 with regards to his firmware for PineTime. That's how i found that repo. Maybe he realized there was some problems with license?

I'm afraid the LCD refresh will be annoyingly slow

Yes full screen refresh seems to be more like a slideshow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x6B-L5KOtU
You probably would want to only partially refresh the display.
Now that's sold as a dev unit with unglued back cover so maybe they will initially upgrade to 52840, I don't think it will be that hard, if they haven't produce large batch of this revision. But for sure display with this resolution needs faster SPI.

@NeverDie said in Everything nRF52840:

Is PineTime the best of the currently available nRF52 watch options?

For this price It well may be. Anyway, for tinkering with nrf I guess it may be the best option.

@scalz didn't see this one before. Strange choice of square display in round body. There are plenty round displays available on a market.
I personally like more the approach Pine64 is taking - the lowest possible price and orientation on the opensource community to polish the product. With all the hype they are getting with PinePhone and PienBook Pro I believe they can make it all work.

scalz

@monte said in Everything nRF52840:

maybe they will initially upgrade to 52840, I don't think it will be that hard, if they haven't produce large batch of this revision.

well, imho switching to nrf52840 won't be a direct upgrade for them. 52840 has more pins, usb etc so not same pcb for sure, then software support (waiting after community for dev too ??). it will certainly be a new watch I think (if they are the designers of the pcb, no idea).
Still, it is cheap for playing with nrf52832 so that's a good point.

regarding the banglejs watch, yes it's too bad they chose a square display (this wastes some space).
I don't have one of these yet, but considering to play with banglejs ecosystem at some point (for watch I would prefer, but that's my preference, to use BLE for more interactions with phone etc).
In that case I will buy one at least (once it's back in stock) for supporting creator and his team.

I have my opinion on hype and long term reality. Both pinetime and banglejs/nodewatch are opensource. You could for example use banglejs framework on any nrf52832 device/watch, with some coding of course (regarding pins mapping, sensors and peripherals), but that didn't look that hard when I looked at the code.

I would prefer a better looking and more compact smartwatch, but for tinkering and playing they both seem fun.

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