NRF24L01+PA+LNA

[moskovskiy82]

I was running an NRF24L01 with the built in antenna and had some problems with range. Got from aliexpress an NRF24L01+PA+LNA

After replacing the module on my NodeMCU MQTT gateway i can see that my RX is a little bit improved and i can get all the sensor data. The problem is that after replacing i cannot send out commands to relay sensors. Nothing happens. As soon as i switch back to plain NRF - everything works...
NRF is powered directly from the pins of NodeMCU...

[noelgeorgi]

Same issue here, all data transmitted fails with st=fail , i thought it was a power issue and specific to me, @hek

[moskovskiy82]

@noelgeorgi

I remember there are options like
#define RF24_PA_LEVEL RF24_PA_MAX

So maybe they need to be tuned in the gateway code?

[hek]

@hek?

The PA radio module requires much more juice. You can lower the transmission power in MyConfig.h (1.5) or by using the MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL define in sketch (development).

The arduino/NodeMCU has limits on how much power you can draw from its pins. Separate powering might be needed when using the upper PA levels.

[Oitzu]

@moskovskiy82 there are several topics about this:
http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/3353/nrf24l01-with-antenna-not-working/2
http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1877/solved-2-x-nrf24l01-pa-lna-with-rf24_pa_max/2

as example. There are several problems with the nrf24l01+pa+lna.

[Oitzu]

Just to get an idea how they perform: I got, with the right supply etc. about 1000m free line of sight out of this modules max.
Currently i have a stable link of about 270m with 200 packtes/s in a non line of sight environment (forest).

[noelgeorgi]

@hek i tried even using #define MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL RF24_PA_MIN with the PA+LNA modules but still sending fails but receiving is ok, i think its an issue with NodeMCU and PA+LNA modules rather than power supply issues.

[Oitzu]

@noelgeorgi if it works with the normal nrf24l01+ modules, it is more likely that it is a power/noise/shielding problem.

[noelgeorgi]

@Oitzu I tried adding capacitors and the issue still persists, I will try another supply

[Oitzu]

@noelgeorgi have a look here: http://blog.blackoise.de/2016/02/fixing-your-cheap-nrf24l01-palna-module/
Tackles most of the nrf24l01 pa/lna module problems.
In short: Power/Noise/Shielding.
Addidtional caps don't help in any case.

[noelgeorgi]

@Oitzu Thank for your replies, but i have already read that blog earlier and my other PA+LNA modules connected to the nodes just work fine.

[Oitzu]

@noelgeorgi: My experience with this: Power supplies differ. Even modules that seem to be the same can have different effective output. So maybe trying another supply is the way to go, yes.

Just want to help.

[bigjimjeedom]

@Oitzu ,
just a question; i have a serial gateway on my JEEDOM box and i have a range problem in my stone house;
so i replace my nrf24l01+ "classic" with a shielded NRF24L01+PA+LNA (as described in the web site you gave us) powered with a separate 3.3v regulator (the module as a little router antenna).
it is working but he range is similar as with the classic version.
So i wanted to know your setting in "config.h" ;
mine are:
#define RF24_PA_LEVEL RF24_PA_MAX
#define RF24_PA_LEVEL_GW RF24_PA_LOW
#define RF24_DATARATE RF24_250KBPS

what are your settings for a good range ? (i need about 50m in my house)

thanks for your help

[Oitzu]

@bigjimjeedom you should receive the best results with:

#define RF24_PA_LEVEL RF24_PA_MAX
#define RF24_PA_LEVEL_GW RF24_PA_MAX
#define RF24_DATARATE RF24_250KBPS

As long as your power supply is clean and your module is shielded.

[bigjimjeedom]

@Oitzu
do you use thoses settings (max max) ? because some people says that it was not the good way with this module but maybe it is because of bad power supply ???
i use this for supplying (with a 5v from USB):
http://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-Socket-Adapter-plate-Board-for-8Pin-NRF24L01-Wireless-Transceive-module-51/32230227557.html?spm=2114.30011508.3.2.TXAdlL&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201602_1_10036_10035_10034_10033_507_10032_10020_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10006_10011_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_401_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_8&btsid=3092fef5-564c-43aa-98a5-0e834674bcd1

[Oitzu]

@bigjimjeedom said:

@Oitzu
do you use thoses settings (max max)?

Yes. I use the max/max settings. I also use as datarate RF24_2MBPS but RF24_250KBPS should be better for good range.

because some people says that it was not the good way with this module but maybe it is because of bad power supply

Yes this is due to low power supply -> The module doesn't get enough current for the MAX setting.
OR
Bad power supply -> The module needs more current -> bad supplys tend to be noisier on higher current.
OR
Bad shielding -> The output from the module is that high that it feedbacks (without the shielding) back into the IC.

i use this for supplying (with a 5v from USB):

Never used them, but on the datasheet they look okay.

[bigjimjeedom]

@Oitzu
thanks a lot for your help !
i try this tonight and i will tell you!

[Oitzu]

@bigjimjeedom i'm eager to hear your results.

[flopp]

Other problem
I have cap 4,7uf
No shield
Power from seperate source

When I use it in my Ethernet gateway it starts up but can't receive anything.
When I put it on other Uno(repeater) it works fine.
When I have it on Uno(battery sensor sketch) it works fine.

What am I missing?

[Oitzu]

Add shield try again. Even electronics near to the pa/lna module can induce enough noise that it stops working.

Different power supplys on the ethernet gateway and the uno?

[flopp]

@Oitzu
Ok will try with shield.

Yes, different computers both GW and REP is powered by USB.

[Oitzu]

@flopp said:

Yes, different computers both GW and REP is powered by USB.

But same source the pa/lna module or also different?

[flopp]

@Oitzu
PA is getting from a second USB port(not same as GW) through a step-down to 3,3.
GND is connected together from both ports

[Oitzu]

@flopp said:
through a step-down to 3,3.

I suspect linear regulator? Then it should, normally, no problem.

[flopp]

@Oitzu said:

@flopp said:
through a step-down to 3,3.

I suspect linear regulator?

I have no knowledge about that but I don't think so, because I can turn on a screw to change from ~1.5-4 V

[Oitzu]

@flopp said:

I have no knowledge about that but I don't think so, because I can turn on a screw to change from ~1.5-4 V

Oh, sounds like a switching regulator to me, but can't be sure. Does it have any name? A switching regulator could produce some significant ripple in your supply, that maybe needs to be filtered out.

Would try the shield first, and then see.

[flopp]

@Oitzu said:

@flopp said:

I have no knowledge about that but I don't think so, because I can turn on a screw to change from ~1.5-4 V

Oh, sounds like a switching regulator to me, but can't be sure. Does it have any name? A switching regulator could produce some significant ripple in your supply, that maybe needs to be filtered out.

Would try the shield first, and then see.

Thank you @Oitzu I change to a different step-down and it started to work, even without shield. Now I use this http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-5V-to-3-3V-DC-DC-Step-Down-Power-Supply-Buck-Module-AMS1117-LDO-800MA-/281058278731

before it was this "s**t" http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/RC-Airplane-Module-Mini-360-DC-Buck-Converter-Step-Down-Module-4-75V-23V-to/1686390_32266152653.html

Left is GOOD right is BAD

[Oitzu]

@flopp said:

Left is GOOD right is BAD

Just to note: That is a little bit to simple. The left is a linear regulator the right one a switching regulator.
That are different technologies that both have there up and downsides. But for sensors a linear regulator often fits better, yes.

it started to work, even without shield

Never the less i would recommend the shield for even better performance, especially if you want to crank up the pa_level for higher range.

[Mark Swift]

I gave up on trying to get the PA+LNB version working with my NodeMCU, reverted back to standard for now!

BTW, I tried it with many different power supplies and with without shielding. Tried for almost a week.

In the end I buckled and ordered a proper shielded version, awaiting its arrival...

[moskovskiy82]

@Mark-Swift said:

In the end I buckled and ordered a proper shielded version, awaiting its arrival...

Where did you get this one? And also share your experience after arriving of the item

[Mark Swift]

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/E01-ML01DP5-Ebyte-2-4GHz-20dBm-2100m-nRF24L01-SPI-Wireless-transceiver-module/32638720689.html

The company also communicated some interesting issues that can cause issues with the nRF... Such as:

1. Watch control voltage, they're easily damaged if you use 5v, hence they suggest pushing control voltage with a 1K-5.1K resistor, even better to use 3.3v (hence on my next one to play it safe I'll use a spare 5v -> 3.3v level shift converter too).

[Oitzu]

@Mark-Swift let us know how they perform. The supplier looks very professional.
Would be interesting if they really reach the promised 2.1km
(I wonder with which antenna)

even better to use 3.3v (hence on my next one to play it safe I'll use a spare 5v -> 3.3v level shift converter too).

Or use a 3.3V pro mini.