💬 Roller Shutter Node
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@scalz said:
@tonnerre33 yep. you're right, it's cms I'm sorry :disappointed: I think.. good luck to fit everything with arduino mini in wall.
About the cutoff, I replaced this by a simple temperature sensor for monitoring. imho, i have two fuses onboards + varistor, enough for me comparing to some commercial products. If it burns you have a big problem somewhere!! But sure it's better to know what you do, thermal fuses is good ;)About the cutoff, i understand you replaced this by a simple temperature sensor but do you cut the primary of the AC source if the temperature is too hight ?
If we only cut the ouput relays and the problem came from the AC source, how we cut the power for stop the overheating ?Thx for your answers and thx for this project ;)
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@tonnerre33 : and how do you protect your thermofuse? :laughing: I'm joking :) I think it's a bit redundant, protection on protection for this project, especially..
But that's an interesting question, I will try to answer how I have made my choice, I hope to not miss a point, and don't forget it is imho ;)About the fuse:
- if you look at the board (topview), you will see that's too tight to put the thermofuse. And I prefer AC isolated on pcb side. The previous rev of this board was few millimeters more wide, and didn't fit well first. Now it's better
- how to secure, I thought? what if hilink fails (paranoid mode as it's a nice module)? So I decided to put a dedicated fast blow fuse for hilink. Right, no temperature! (Note : there is another 5amps fuses but it's for handling relays).
- Two choice, heu no 3 in fact.
I could use rfm to monitor hilink temp...could work, not the best precision, but that would need I put rfm69 under hilink to be precise enough as I want. Maybe paranoid on EMI etc..but I didn't wanted to put the radio under hilink, and for antenna performance.
So..a CTN? I was using this on the previous rev, under hilink.
For this one, I have decided to use onewire sensor glued on hilink side. nice too.
But..you're still right, no temp cutoff! damn!! But:
- why would the temperature increase??? over current somewhere? on a bad hilink or something else? etc..
The hilink fuse should be already dead at this moment! If I remember well the ref I use is a 500mah, there is 1A variant too. For lightnings storm etc.. there is also a varistor. - and what happens if temp increase? For thermofuse, are you notified if it happens? or a bit before it happens? Or can you predict it for weeks? In my case, I like the idea to be able to monitor/detect weeks before, than waiting it burn in the wall! in case the board starts to heat more than usual,
- the hilink is already well protected.
- what else :smile: ah yes! I have millings on the boards, respected creepage/clearance..
Now, I'm curious, I would like to know how can I make my board burning in the wall? I would like to try..I think my main electric system will trigger too..
Very personal opinion, perhaps i've not answered completely to your question...but i've answered why I thought it was redundant :)
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@Nca78 : I prefer to answer this here as the question was related to shutter
@Nca78 said:
@scalz on your board you use relays that are much bigger than those tiny SSRs, in the end it probably gives the same result for the space used on the board, and as you have the radio on the other side the depth difference is not very big, just 2mm from the plastic at the base of the connectors.
The board you're talking on the other topic is different.For multiple reasons, that's not the best choice to use SSR for shutters. commercial products use spst+spdt too, I guess.
For relays choice: with no snubber, 5amps will be less good than a 10amps.About footprint constraints, these two boards are not comparable.
If it's for a shutter node, on mine there is a current sensor, relay driver, signing authentication chip, flash eeprom for memory etc..and I respect all clearance and creepage, no radio near AC nor other traces, all components on one side for maintenance..
Like I said, I wish good luck to someone who want to make my board using arduino mini + hilink with all my requirements, same size and thickness. You can't do small tight things with big things or I want to see creepage/clearance results ;) -
It's ok, i haven't seen the fuse in the primary of the hilink ;)
with this fuse, the protection is guaranteed, then you don't need termofuse in this project :+1:
thanx for answer how you made your choice and i hope the release will arrive soon :) -
@scalz I agree with you it's not the best choice, I just want to try it anyway and see how it behaves. The configuration you use is probably the one used in commercial products, but my neighbour has some electric shutters with fibaro modules and they are really tiny, I wonder what relays they use. They have an external antenna (a wire) so it probably eases the internal design, they use a transformerles design, but I still don't get how they can fit relays inside and respect clearance/creepage.
I'm tempted with your board, but like many others the SMD components are putting me off at the moment. Wonder if this type of board would not be a good candidate for an ESP8266 module ?
It would take space similar to a radio module, but without any routing needed to connect to atmega. (and the castellated pins are not very hard to solder :)) -
@scalz I agree with you it's not the best choice, I just want to try it anyway and see how it behaves. The configuration you use is probably the one used in commercial products, but my neighbour has some electric shutters with fibaro modules and they are really tiny, I wonder what relays they use. They have an external antenna (a wire) so it probably eases the internal design, they use a transformerles design, but I still don't get how they can fit relays inside and respect clearance/creepage.
I'm tempted with your board, but like many others the SMD components are putting me off at the moment. Wonder if this type of board would not be a good candidate for an ESP8266 module ?
It would take space similar to a radio module, but without any routing needed to connect to atmega. (and the castellated pins are not very hard to solder :)) -
@Nca78 oki it's good to experiment by yourself you're right :) and if you do something better, sure i would use it ;) I'm not dumb!
for esp8266, i thought about it too.
First, I'm not a fan of wifi for rollershutter, it's like a door..I prefer something more secured with atmel/rfm/signing. But i have tried in eagle to see.
footprint was not really better! just looking at the topview, it's difficult to make smaller..as you can see with @dpressle board, which is nice design though, but 5x5, not same features, and i don't know about thickness, antenna near traces etc..so not same goals as I said.for fibaro modules, I don't have one so i can't tell, I know they are good in miniaturization. but I'm pretty sure they are using transformless, with a very tight, controlled and professional design etc..but my design is opensource work (almost for the moment) with a current sensor which can add some versatility who knows.
Maybe not so easy to handsolder for noobs, i can agree.
I could have used 0603, instead i kept 0805. in case middle experienced people would build it with moderate tools. even a noob who want to learn and know a bit about AC. On my side, no glasses and i don't need a magnifier with 0805, nor 0603 but it's easier with one. Maybe lucky. Try maybe you don't need it too guys, with little patience, pratice and fun :) I admit I'm not noob but I'm not former electronician.A trick: if not really friendly with smd, and need some boards, a stencil costs 15-20$, it's reusable, boost the job, and if you don't have reflow oven, there are multiple alternative like using your solder iron as solder paste is already applied, or hot gun etc.
taste and colours sometimes... :)
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@Nca78 oki it's good to experiment by yourself you're right :) and if you do something better, sure i would use it ;) I'm not dumb!
for esp8266, i thought about it too.
First, I'm not a fan of wifi for rollershutter, it's like a door..I prefer something more secured with atmel/rfm/signing. But i have tried in eagle to see.
footprint was not really better! just looking at the topview, it's difficult to make smaller..as you can see with @dpressle board, which is nice design though, but 5x5, not same features, and i don't know about thickness, antenna near traces etc..so not same goals as I said.for fibaro modules, I don't have one so i can't tell, I know they are good in miniaturization. but I'm pretty sure they are using transformless, with a very tight, controlled and professional design etc..but my design is opensource work (almost for the moment) with a current sensor which can add some versatility who knows.
Maybe not so easy to handsolder for noobs, i can agree.
I could have used 0603, instead i kept 0805. in case middle experienced people would build it with moderate tools. even a noob who want to learn and know a bit about AC. On my side, no glasses and i don't need a magnifier with 0805, nor 0603 but it's easier with one. Maybe lucky. Try maybe you don't need it too guys, with little patience, pratice and fun :) I admit I'm not noob but I'm not former electronician.A trick: if not really friendly with smd, and need some boards, a stencil costs 15-20$, it's reusable, boost the job, and if you don't have reflow oven, there are multiple alternative like using your solder iron as solder paste is already applied, or hot gun etc.
taste and colours sometimes... :)
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@Samuel235 Elecrow when i order pcb, or oshstencils.com is great too
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@Samuel235 Elecrow when i order pcb, or oshstencils.com is great too
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@Samuel235 Elecrow when i order pcb, or oshstencils.com is great too
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Hey guys :)
this time is time for update ;)
rfm69 version is uploaded. Added a bit of documentation. github in sync with this topic. gerbers and design files released too.
Only STL and the sketch are missing, not for long, I have just finished to write and try formatting my post, upload and check everything etc.. Maybe there are some typos in doc I think etc..I am looking if it could be interesting to use PCBA through pcbway or others.
At least, pcb should be available here through pcbway, I have pushed the button :)Enjoy :v:
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Great, I would be interested in PCBA board as I'm not feeling motivated for playing with solder paste and buying a reflow oven yet ;)
I'm more interested in a NRF24 version and if you can only get RFM69 version with PCBA then I will adapt, but maybe you can have an option without the radio ?
At the moment I would order only 1-2 boards to make some intensive testing first, I have some big windows (over 2m*2m so it will need a relatively powerfull motor), and tropical weather with high temperature and high humidity.
But if it survives the local conditions I have 9 manual roller shutters in my appartment and I know some neighbours are interested in home automation stuff also, with 350 appartments in my building there's some potential for orders :D -
@Nca78
wow! cool.
I hope it will fit your needs ;)For the nrf24 version, I just need to add few silkscreen, and it's ok to upload, it's the same version, only rerouted a bit differently at radio side.
don't worry no need of a reflow oven, just a fine solder iron. but I agree, sometimes because I feel something easy I think it's easy for other..
That's why I will ask pcbway for the PCBA and I will ask my regular fabhouse too.
I am thinking :- only pcb
- only smd parts soldered, up to us to source others component like relays, radio etc..
- full assembled. curious to see the cost.
On my side, I can do very small batch sometimes. like 10-20 boards. But I live in France, so, for far country it may be not interesting regarding shipping fees etc
I'm also actually working on release for others boards..I need to sort all my stuff, to have more air for software and new hardware.. :)
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@Nca78
wow! cool.
I hope it will fit your needs ;)For the nrf24 version, I just need to add few silkscreen, and it's ok to upload, it's the same version, only rerouted a bit differently at radio side.
don't worry no need of a reflow oven, just a fine solder iron. but I agree, sometimes because I feel something easy I think it's easy for other..
That's why I will ask pcbway for the PCBA and I will ask my regular fabhouse too.
I am thinking :- only pcb
- only smd parts soldered, up to us to source others component like relays, radio etc..
- full assembled. curious to see the cost.
On my side, I can do very small batch sometimes. like 10-20 boards. But I live in France, so, for far country it may be not interesting regarding shipping fees etc
I'm also actually working on release for others boards..I need to sort all my stuff, to have more air for software and new hardware.. :)
@scalz in fact je suis Français ;)
Do you think you can have one board ready in around a month time ? I'll have family coming from France at the end of september so I can give you an address in France where to send the board :)I'm pretty sure I'll be ok with smd after some time, but I'm just not ready yet. I have bought some kits to train before I try before I do it on real boards/components.
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@Nca78 hehe. that's what I thought first time i saw your nick, don't tell me why maybe the 78 :) that's fun.
I will see. this is nrf24 board you want, isn't it? I have no of these in stock but I have an order of multiple pcb to do this week. so I will buy a set. I will use DHL..not so patient when there are new boards to try :) So I will tell you what I can do..
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@Nca78 hehe. that's what I thought first time i saw your nick, don't tell me why maybe the 78 :) that's fun.
I will see. this is nrf24 board you want, isn't it? I have no of these in stock but I have an order of multiple pcb to do this week. so I will buy a set. I will use DHL..not so patient when there are new boards to try :) So I will tell you what I can do..
@scalz If you are not ready with the NRF24 version I will be fine with a RFM version, I'll just build a RFM gateway it's not a big deal, and I'll have no excuse not to try all those nice boards with RFM69 that are on openhardware ;)
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nrf24 smd version is uploaded. Have fun
