Skip to content
  • MySensors
  • OpenHardware.io
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Brand Logo
  1. Home
  2. General Discussion
  3. Concept of a flexible but simple smart network

Concept of a flexible but simple smart network

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
25 Posts 6 Posters 4.3k Views 4 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • gohanG Offline
    gohanG Offline
    gohan
    Mod
    wrote on last edited by
    #9

    you could use bridges but you would need to have unique IDs throughout all the networks if you want nodes to talk to each other across networks, if I understood right.

    dbemowskD 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • gohanG gohan

      you could use bridges but you would need to have unique IDs throughout all the networks if you want nodes to talk to each other across networks, if I understood right.

      dbemowskD Offline
      dbemowskD Offline
      dbemowsk
      wrote on last edited by
      #10

      @gohan Wouldn't you need that anyway? How else would you address a node?

      Vera Plus running UI7 with MySensors, Sonoffs and 1-Wire devices
      Visit my website for more Bits, Bytes and Ramblings from me: http://dan.bemowski.info/

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • axillentA Offline
        axillentA Offline
        axillent
        Mod
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        yes, to address devices across different network segments you need a global ID
        but there is a trick... Please see the first picture. It is a layer called Translator.
        it is possible to translate non-global ID to global and back and this will allow to create a bridge

        sense and drive

        dbemowskD 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • axillentA axillent

          yes, to address devices across different network segments you need a global ID
          but there is a trick... Please see the first picture. It is a layer called Translator.
          it is possible to translate non-global ID to global and back and this will allow to create a bridge

          dbemowskD Offline
          dbemowskD Offline
          dbemowsk
          wrote on last edited by
          #12

          @axillent Isn't that in a sense a broad definition of what a bridge does? Translating information between two different types of networks.

          Vera Plus running UI7 with MySensors, Sonoffs and 1-Wire devices
          Visit my website for more Bits, Bytes and Ramblings from me: http://dan.bemowski.info/

          axillentA 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • dbemowskD dbemowsk

            @axillent Isn't that in a sense a broad definition of what a bridge does? Translating information between two different types of networks.

            axillentA Offline
            axillentA Offline
            axillent
            Mod
            wrote on last edited by
            #13

            @dbemowsk each layer does it's job
            bridge just creates a bridge
            will it do a translation between depends on translation layer
            translation job can be about translation of address or translation of data form or even both
            all this depends on the goal but brings wide flexibility

            sense and drive

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • axillentA Offline
              axillentA Offline
              axillent
              Mod
              wrote on last edited by axillent
              #14

              some more details about addressing

              0_1536409602976_7a19d573-f5ea-45c6-9a10-1ce2bba4bd14-изображение.png

              global adress is 16 bit number. 12 most significant bits are defining network segment number while 4 less significant bits are providing nodeID

              section 0xFE00-0xFEFF is reserved for local broadcasting, 0xFF00-0xFFFF - for global broadcasts. Etc. 256 broadcasts of each type

              segments and differenciation between local and global broadcasts are needed for efficient support of bridging and routing.

              bridging is a simplified version of routing. bridging is connecting network segments on different physycal inrterfaces while routing can assume to bypass many physical interfaces between (routing throuth).
              one of the bridge example is a link between wired interface and MQTT.
              one of the routing example is a link between 2 wired interfaces across public Internet

              each network segment can have 15 nodes. nodeID = 0 is a special local segment broadcast addressing all devices in segment.

              each physical interface can have several segments, etc. there is no limitation to have 15 nodes on physical interface. you just add as many segments to interface as you need to have devices

              sense and drive

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • alowhumA Offline
                alowhumA Offline
                alowhum
                Plugin Developer
                wrote on last edited by
                #15

                Is encryption built in?

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • Z Offline
                  Z Offline
                  Zeph
                  Hero Member
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  What is W3P? Is this some sort of CANBUS?

                  axillentA 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • K Offline
                    K Offline
                    kimot
                    wrote on last edited by kimot
                    #17

                    I think your addressing concept do not respect hardware - microcontrollers and radio modules we are using.
                    Some hardware ( RFM69, serial in 9bit mode, etc. ) can filter incoming messages itself and do not disturb controller when
                    receive different address then node own ID or broadcast.
                    For example with RFM69 you can store node ID and broadcast address in radiomodule and it will receive only messages with this specific addresses.
                    But your address schema uses 4 lower bits for node ID ( 0-16 ) and lower 8 bits in all combination for broadcast too.
                    Your node must receive all 16 bits to distinguish - if it is node addressed message or broadcast call.
                    So you cannot use addressing features of our hardware.
                    I think, better is divide 16 bits to 8 bit node ID and 8 bits network ID.
                    Network filtering and routing then make gateway and distribute messages to connected nodes or other networks.

                    axillentA 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Z Zeph

                      What is W3P? Is this some sort of CANBUS?

                      axillentA Offline
                      axillentA Offline
                      axillent
                      Mod
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      @zeph yes and no. it is very very simple hardware, similar to LocoNet. allows to transfer a few kbit/sec on single wire (w3p - 3 wire VCC + Signal + GND) using 1 npn transistor + 4 resistors at absolute minimum

                      sense and drive

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • K kimot

                        I think your addressing concept do not respect hardware - microcontrollers and radio modules we are using.
                        Some hardware ( RFM69, serial in 9bit mode, etc. ) can filter incoming messages itself and do not disturb controller when
                        receive different address then node own ID or broadcast.
                        For example with RFM69 you can store node ID and broadcast address in radiomodule and it will receive only messages with this specific addresses.
                        But your address schema uses 4 lower bits for node ID ( 0-16 ) and lower 8 bits in all combination for broadcast too.
                        Your node must receive all 16 bits to distinguish - if it is node addressed message or broadcast call.
                        So you cannot use addressing features of our hardware.
                        I think, better is divide 16 bits to 8 bit node ID and 8 bits network ID.
                        Network filtering and routing then make gateway and distribute messages to connected nodes or other networks.

                        axillentA Offline
                        axillentA Offline
                        axillent
                        Mod
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #19

                        @kimot the main idea of all my project is to manage network abstraction layer regardless hardware
                        only translation + driver layers are hardware related, but them allow to transfer logical layer data throuth any physical hardware
                        my 16bit addressing could be translated to addresses used by your hardware to keep handle communication based on hardware advantages.

                        I just launched a network with translation throuth Ethernet/TCP with application server running on orangepi
                        Working pretty well. On logical level it is always 16bit addressing with broadcasting support.
                        developing device you should not take care how message will reach another device
                        this is handled while developing appropriate translations/drivers on bridge side.

                        bridge - a device connecting 2 or more different physycal layers.

                        it is also allows to crate a building blocks.
                        For example I'm running ESP8266 with TCP interface to network on one side and UART&JSON interface on other side
                        attaching MCU to ESP by UART a can connect any kind of network to my network

                        sense and drive

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • axillentA Offline
                          axillentA Offline
                          axillent
                          Mod
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #20

                          just to illustrate how translation is working
                          you do not need direct logic match between abstract layer and the layer of used interface

                          here is how translation is working between my network and MQTT broker:

                          0_1541172446514_91ed42fc-c745-43ba-a897-c7cca1244feb-изображение.png

                          bellow is initialization of 2 different nodes attached to 2 different interfaces, one to TCP/IP network, other to MQTT broker
                          it is a code from linux application server

                          //-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          // Nodes
                          //-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          // --- inet
                          typedef Smartlets::Common::RouteTableFile									RouteTable;
                          typedef STAVRP::Linux::TCPDrv<0>											TCPDrv;
                          typedef Smartlets::Interface::Translator::INet<Message, TCPDrv, RouteTable>	TranslINet;
                          typedef Smartlets::Interface::P2P<Message, TranslINet, 16, 16>			InterfaceINet;
                          typedef Smartlets::Node::NodeBasic<Message, InterfaceINet, ApplInet>		NodeINet;
                          
                          // --- mqtt
                          typedef Smartlets::Interface::Translator::Mqtt<Message>				TranslMqtt;
                          typedef Smartlets::Interface::P2P<Message, TranslMqtt, 16, 16>			InterfaceMqtt;
                          typedef Smartlets::Node::NodeBasic<Message, InterfaceMqtt, ApplMqtt>		NodeMqtt;
                          

                          Inside Translator:Mqtt the following is used for example inside TX method (sending message):

                          	static bool TX(const Message& msg) {
                          
                          		char key[128];
                          
                          		if( msg.header.tx.IsBroadcast() )
                          			sprintf(key, "/%s/bc/o/%d/%d/%d/%d", data.swi_domain.c_str(), msg.header.tx.GetBroadcastID(), msg.header.rx.GetNetSegment(), msg.header.rx.GetNetDevID(), msg.header.type.type);
                          		else
                          			sprintf(key, "/%s/m/o/%d/%d/%d/%d/%d", data.swi_domain.c_str(), msg.header.tx.GetNetSegment(), msg.header.tx.GetNetDevID(), msg.header.rx.GetNetSegment(), msg.header.rx.GetNetDevID(), msg.header.type.type);
                          
                          		std::string	payload = json_ext::FromMessage(msg);
                          		data.drv.TXPut(STAVRP::Linux::MqttEntry(key, payload));
                          
                          		return true;
                          	}```
                          
                          and this is how it is finally bridged between:
                          
                          
                          while(1) {
                          
                          	//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          	// loop inet
                          	//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          	if( NodeINet::Loop() ) {
                          
                          		Message msg = NodeINet::RX();
                          
                          		Logger::root() << log4cpp::Priority::DEBUG << "inet-> tx=" << msg.header.tx.id;
                          
                          		NodeINet::CommitRX(false);
                          
                          		// --- routing
                          		if( NodeINet::TX(msg) ) {
                          			Logger::root() << log4cpp::Priority::DEBUG << "inet->inet TX OK";
                          			// delayed queue
                          		} else {
                          			Logger::root() << log4cpp::Priority::ERROR << "inet->inet TX failed";
                          		}
                          
                          		if( NodeMqtt::TX(msg) ) {
                          			Logger::root() << log4cpp::Priority::DEBUG << "inet->mqtt TX OK";
                          		} else {
                          			Logger::root() << log4cpp::Priority::ERROR << "inet->mqtt TX failed";
                          		}
                          
                          	}
                          
                          	//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          	// loop mqtt
                          	//---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          	if( NodeMqtt::Loop() ) {
                          
                          		Message msg = NodeMqtt::RX();
                          
                          		Logger::root() << log4cpp::Priority::DEBUG << "mqtt-> tx=" << msg.header.tx.id;
                          
                          		NodeMqtt::CommitRX(false);
                          
                          		if( NodeINet::TX(msg) ) Logger::root() << log4cpp::Priority::DEBUG << "mqtt->inet TX OK";
                          		else Logger::root() << log4cpp::Priority::ERROR << "mqtt->inet TX failed";
                          
                          	}
                          
                          	sleep(1);
                          
                          }```
                          

                          sense and drive

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • axillentA Offline
                            axillentA Offline
                            axillent
                            Mod
                            wrote on last edited by axillent
                            #21

                            made a few steps forward

                            launched ESP8266 node & bridge and STM32 bridge and TCP/IP router based on linux (orangepi)
                            bellow is my working example
                            list of supported platforms:

                            • STM8S/IAR
                            • STM32F0/Keil - draft
                            • ATMEL/Atmel studio - draft
                            • Arduino ESP8266
                            • Arduino STM32
                            • Linux/g++

                            i;m working on 2 libs. first is to handle platform dependant things. second is platform independant smart devices network
                            regardless platform and regardless communication hardware the framework allows to transfer messages using RX/TX notation with 16 bit global addressing.
                            Addressing is organized as 4096 segments where 4094 are 15 node segments each and 2 segments are for broadcadsting

                            framework allows to connect potentially absolutelly different communication hardware
                            currently i'm running:

                            • simple one wire (1 wire signal + 2 wire power) network
                            • wifi based nodes
                            • twisted pair connected ethernet devices

                            bridge between different types of network is organized on TCP/IP application server running currently on linux
                            etc. potentially allows to connect network segments regardless physicall location, only internet connection is required

                            why i'm doing this? mostly for fan but also to implement 2 principles:

                            • application layer to be independant from hardware and transport. message format is universal and is the same regardless platform and communication hardware. Addressing is also universal. Application should not take care about intermediate specific, this is handled by other components
                            • avoid a central unit. each device can communicate with each device. the only central component is application server. but is is very simple, robust and reliable. failover is supported

                            My example:
                            0_1542366195599_swi_network_example1.png

                            sense and drive

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • axillentA Offline
                              axillentA Offline
                              axillent
                              Mod
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #22

                              for esp8266 i made an universal bridge application
                              it can be used for both:

                              • single node, esp8266 is running a final application. on the photo above my thermostats to measure room temperature, report it and to send ON/OFF commands to heaters

                              • bridge. can be used to connect other type networks wirelessly to application server. UART is used for this + json translation. currently this is implemented to connect heating controllers located on each floor

                              0_1542367097091_swi.png

                              main and failover servers can be configured
                              also each node is configured to handle from one to a few network segments. this allows simple routing from application server back to node
                              esp8266 is using ArduinoOTA and zero hardcording.
                              after fresh programming esp creates AP and smartphone can be used to preconfigure a node
                              any updates are keeping configuration except major updates there stored structure can be affected

                              application server is also support MQTT translation
                              etc. it looks like a routing between my network and MQTT server
                              RX/TX adresing are mapped to MQTT topic while message is translated into JSON:
                              0_1542367488414_b02f627d-a80b-4837-9c39-335bcb337667-изображение.png

                              sense and drive

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • axillentA Offline
                                axillentA Offline
                                axillent
                                Mod
                                wrote on last edited by axillent
                                #23

                                also from last
                                byteorder handling is build in
                                library allows to choose any order
                                I select bigendian because this is natural to my major MCU - STM8
                                on little endian platforms (like STM32, ESP8266 and ARM64) data is automatically translated

                                sense and drive

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                1
                                • axillentA Offline
                                  axillentA Offline
                                  axillent
                                  Mod
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #24

                                  just published my libraries
                                  anyonw is welsome on review and comments https://github.com/axillent :

                                  • list item stavrp C++ multiplafrom suport library, platforms are at different level of support

                                  • list item smartletsp C++ smart devices network

                                  • list item swilib and integration of above two libraries with arduino framework

                                  sense and drive

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  2
                                  • axillentA Offline
                                    axillentA Offline
                                    axillent
                                    Mod
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #25

                                    Linux Router https://github.com/axillent/swi_appserver

                                    sense and drive

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    Reply
                                    • Reply as topic
                                    Log in to reply
                                    • Oldest to Newest
                                    • Newest to Oldest
                                    • Most Votes


                                    14

                                    Online

                                    11.7k

                                    Users

                                    11.2k

                                    Topics

                                    113.1k

                                    Posts


                                    Copyright 2025 TBD   |   Forum Guidelines   |   Privacy Policy   |   Terms of Service
                                    • Login

                                    • Don't have an account? Register

                                    • Login or register to search.
                                    • First post
                                      Last post
                                    0
                                    • MySensors
                                    • OpenHardware.io
                                    • Categories
                                    • Recent
                                    • Tags
                                    • Popular