Posts made by exilit

@Black-Cat Wow, thank you for all the information, that really sounds almost impossible.
I will definitely try to get some information regarding IEC 60669.

So if I got you right there will be one test report in the end which will cover all the different tests required by the different certifying authorities.
There are two things I still not understand.

• Is it possible to certify a device so that it can be extended (through a defined interface) by self made hardware without loosing the certification?

• What do you mean with the part about doing it myself? I think just not telling anybody would be difficult, as the assurance would like to know what caused the fire and therefore would do some research to find out. Or are you talking about the case when it is a Level 2 device and I only connect it myself?

I hope you understand what I mean. It's difficult for me to write down this part.

@Black-Cat Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it. Sounds like you have some experience with the whole topic of certification. Apart from being time consuming and expensive, do you think it would be possible to certify a device that allows to switch LV (Low Vortages?) by exposing an ELV (extra Low Vortage?) Interface?
Or does any Device interfering with the LV device have to be certified also?

@Brian-Morris i Think wat i am really looking for is a tinkering-friendly Device that can deliver some low voltage power as well as a possibility to switch higher voltage devices.

The point is that - as far as I know - tinkering with low voltage is uncritical (with respect to assurances and power providers) but everything related to mains power needs to be certified and/or should only be installed by people qualified to do so. So what I would like to see is a device that can be controlled easily and at the same time is safe to use.

@Brian-Morris Great project, looks good. But I think also not what I am looking for.

@gohan said in AC Power and/or Relay interface:

maybe you can start a kickstarter campaign

I did not thought about that, but that sounds like a good idea :simple_smile:. Maybe it's worth thinking about it.

@gohan Well, for most companies you are probably right. But have a look at ITEAD with their Sonoff products... They are already quite open and also seem not to do a lot against people tinkering with it. They sell good products which are adoptable if needed/wanted. And people obviously like it and large communities originate from that which create even better products.
So I think there is a market for those products.

That's what I mean, I'd like to see products where I don't have to void the warranty because I don't need to open it.

I imagine something like the following:

I think that would be awesome.

@Black-Cat said in AC Power and/or Relay interface:

If the OP can do without an enclosed PS

I can do, but I am specifically looking for something that simplifies (in a sense of "assurance-safety") the whole High Voltage side. The products posted by you are really nice, but unfortunately do not address my request.

Like I said before, I am aware, that the product I am searching for might not yet exist. (wondering why ) But maybe somebody has seen something like that.

@Black-Cat I'm a little bit confused. This does not address my issue, does it?

@Black-Cat Ideally 5V or 3.3V. But in the end it doesn't matter too much, as converting it down wouldn't be too difficult. Do you know something?

@rozpruwacz said in AC Power and/or Relay interface:

@exilit said in AC Power and/or Relay interface:

Recom RAC03

oh, You are talking about this ?
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/recom-power/RAC03-05SCR-277/945-1702-ND/3844914

if so then yes this is exactly what I mean and actualy this item looks very good about the price I believe that maybe you could find something half the price but not less ...

Yes, that is what I was talking about. Half the price sounds good.
But to be honest, I think the one you posted suits it better. The Recom power supply's use cases seem to be the same as the HLK module.

@gohan I know the requirements are very specific and hard to find. I am just searching for ideas.

@rozpruwacz said in AC Power and/or Relay interface:

If You design it well then it will not cause your home tu burn

Yes you are most probably right. But if it does, I will not only lose my house, I will also be bankrupt and homeless.

But seriously: This is what I was thinking for some time also. Especially because I have seen In-Wall device that are way unsafer than the ones on this forum using the HLK. But for some reason I'm very unsure for the last few days...
So if there is another solution I think I still would like to take that. If not... well, I will do it myself and hope that my house does not burn. Maybe I put a CE sticker on it...

@gohan Thanks, but I believe Z-Wave will be expensive. And apart that I would really like to run MySensors (Not mandatory, but currently my goal).

@rozpruwacz Wow, that looks great. Still missing the relay for my dream product but that's a starting point. Do you know more of that? Like I said, I searched that for days and didn't find anything similar.

@rozpruwacz Thank you for your suggestion. I already searched for that for hours (if not days). Most results are either uncased (so not certified) or/and quite expensive.
The best thing I could find was the Recom RAC03. But the price (and again the missing certification, not sure) make it not suitable.

@gohan There is no problem. I like the devices very much, but I'd like to have something not WiFi based for that purpose.

Why Z-Wave? Do you know a Z-Wave device, that serves low voltage output and is externally controllable?

I am looking for a way to put an MySensors Relay actuator behind a wall switch. I read a lot of information provided here (special thanks goes to @sundberg84 for all his research and sharing his findings and results) and also studied some power supply designs found on the web (Openhardware.io and also some commercial products).

I learned a lot and feel like I demystified the architecture of power supplies a bit, so that I am now a lot more comfortable with AC mains electronics in theory. I think the recommended design for Safe In-Wall AC to DC transformers is safe enough to use and as far as I have seen it is even more secure (at least by design, schematic is another topic) than a lot of commercial products out there.

But nevertheless I am still concerned because of missing certifications and the fact that assurances might decline to pay in case of an accident. That's why I am currently looking for another solution. My dream solution would be something that deals with everything AC related and provides an low voltage output (as well as an digital input for controlling an embedded relay).
I am pretty sure there is nothing like that, but asking doesn't hurt.

I also like the Sonoff devices. I'd consider them also, if they would be using an Atmega instead of an ESP8266 and if they were smaller in size. But on the other hand using a custom software would again break the certification...
Also the Livolo switches are nice for tinkering, but missing an interface I could use, I think this is also not a solution for the certification issue.

Maybe here is somebody who has seen something like that or who has another suggestion.

@sundberg84 Thank you for your reply. Do you see big differences regarding the safety?
As far as I see both projects use a slow blow fuse and a thermal fuse to protect the AC-side.

Sorry for digging deeper, but both projects look great. Yours seems to be better tested,
but the other one has two relays. Hard to decide, which one to use :-).

Great project, thank you for sharing. Searching for a power supply i found your project which seems to fit my needs pretty well. What do you think are the main differences to the AC/DC/Double SSD Relay by Aproxx (https://www.mysensors.org/hardware/ac-dc-ssd-relay). I am mainly interested in the AC/DC conversion part.Would like to hear your opinion on that.