$8 Lamp (Outlet) "Smart Plug" Module

barduino

I've tried this and had inconclusive results rather then a significant extended rage. Not sure what I'm doing wrong or if it's the quality of my RF module.

I've used some wire (8.33 cm) I had left over but its not one solid copper wire, its has many "strings" inside. In your experiment did you use one solid copper wire and can this influence this hack?

Thanks

petewill

@barduino I am using solid copper cat5e wire. I don't know much about antennas but it may change the behavior. Do you have any old cat5 that you can cut and test with?

barduino

@petewill

I'm going to try it.

I'm also using a capacitor on the RF module, not sure if you did combine both techniques.

On a last note, I've noticed some power setting on the MyConfig.h (1.5 lib) cant remember the values form 1.4.1

/**********************************
*  NRF24L01 Driver Defaults
***********************************/
#define RF24_CE_PIN		   9
#define RF24_CS_PIN		   10
#define RF24_PA_LEVEL 	   RF24_PA_MAX
#define RF24_PA_LEVEL_GW   RF24_PA_LOW

So now I'm initializing the gatweway as

// Instanciate MySersors Gateway
MyTransportNRF24 transport(RF24_CE_PIN, RF24_CS_PIN, RF24_PA_LEVEL);

instead of

// Instanciate MySersors Gateway
MyTransportNRF24 transport(RF24_CE_PIN, RF24_CS_PIN, RF24_PA_LEVEL_GW);

Not sure if there is a significant diference here...

The results i'm getting now (after removing the antena, but with capacitor and changes on 1.5 MyConfig) are similar to the results I got from lib 1.4.1 with capacitor. I have a repeater about 15 meters from gateway and if i put it 17 meters it doesnt work anymore (there are some walls on the way)

I'll just add a solid copper antena to see if results change.

Thanks for the info!

Cheers

petewill

@barduino Yes, I always use a capacitor to filter power to my radio. I recently have been using 3.3v Pro Mini Arduinos so I have just been putting a 4.7uf cap very close to the radio.

As far as I know the RF24_PA_LEVEL_GW is only used for the gateway. You can change the power level in the config file for the sensors but it looks like you already had it at the MAX. You can play with the power level depending on your radio model used with the gateway. On my gateway I experimented with an external antenna type radio and if it was set on max it completely wrecked my z-wave communication (there must have been interference like crazy since they are different frequencies). If you are using the PCB type antenna you can probably increase the power level to max without any issues. It's been a while since I did anything with my gateway (it's been working great for months) so I don't remember what settings I'm using. I do know I have the antenna hacked radio instead of the external antenna.

Zeph

One thing to note is that adding an external antenna extension to the on-PCB antenna moves this into the realm of "RF magic". What I mean is that it becomes a very non-standard sort of hybrid antenna about which we can predict very little. Like receiving television with rabbit ears and aluminum foil, you will mostly have to work by trial and error rather than exact calculations.

The on-PCB antenna should already be tuned for the RF wavelength, probably near the middle of the band. We can also calculate the appropriate length for a straight wire used INSTEAD OF the on-PCB. But when we solder a wire onto the PCB antenna, we wind up with a very complex antenna which may or may not work very well (but in general it's far easier to make a random antenna work poorly than to make it work well). There are questions of antenna gain (or attenuation), but also of directionality - adding the wire might make it transmit/receive better in some directions and worse in other directions!

Part of my point is that we cannot necessarily predict the best length of wire to solder to the on-PCB antenna by using the calculations that would apply with no PCB antenna. It may depend where on the PCB antenna trace you solder the extra wire, and perhaps on how the wire gets bent (especially if it comes near electrical conductors).

So after you have the node placed where you want it (including the orientation), you can try moving the added antenna around in the case for better reception - and you can also try changing the wire length because 8.33 cm is not necessarily optimal for this hybrid antenna. Of course it's easier to shorten a wire by just successively chopping off a little bit at a time; you can solder in a new wire if need be.

The length does not have to be super precise by the way - a loose wire antenna is not a highly tuned (Hi-Q) antenna and a slightly suboptimal length doesn't dramatically alter the results. Which is good, since the modules operate over a range of frequencies - and because even without the PCB antenna to really complicate things, even the PCB trace between the chip and the wire is part of the tuning as well, not just the bendable wire.

Stranded wire vs solid should not have a large effect, compared to the many other factors involved here.

TheoL

Hi Pete,

I'm new to this forum, but I wanted to give you a big thumbs up. I really enjoyed watching your videos and I learned a lot from watching them. It's because of people like you that made me decide to start using MySensors.

I have an old 433Mhx power plug that is broken. I see if I can turn it in to a MySensors power plug ;)

petewill

@Zeph I agree. This is complicated stuff that I don't even begin to grasp. That said it is a cheap and easy hack to try. In my case it has helped every time. Maybe I just got lucky but it helped enough of my nodes that I thought I'd at least tell people about it. If it doesn't work, then just remove the wire and no harm done. Thanks for all your contributions to the site. Your knowledge is helping a lot of people.

@TheoL Thanks for the kind words! Although, credit really goes to @hek and the team. They are the geniuses that make this all work! Good luck with "mysensoring" the old power plug. But, be careful, it's addicting. :)

Zeph

@petewill just to be clear - I appreciate your posting that adding the loose wire to the on-PCB antenna helped, and I'm not discouraging that. If it works, it works! Mostly I wanted people to understand that it's going to be trial and error, rather than something where they can count on calculating the best length (because it's added to another antenna at an unanticipated point, rather than being a standalone wire antenna). It would not surprise me if somebody found that a 6.5 cm wire worked better than 8.33cm, for their particular case (picking an example length at random). Wiggle those rabbit ears!

I love the examples you post and your excellent videos. I have modestly good knowledge here and there, with gaps in other places, and your working examples give me confidence/inspiration to build something I haven't before - along with practical (not just theoretical) advice. You even turn your minor mistakes into lessons - how it should have been done, and how you managed to work around it anyway. Keep them coming!

petewill

@Zeph said:

Mostly I wanted people to understand that it's going to be trial and error, rather than something where they can count on calculating the best length (because it's added to another antenna at an unanticipated point, rather than being a standalone wire antenna). It would not surprise me if somebody found that a 6.5 cm wire worked better than 8.33cm, for their particular case (picking an example length at random). Wiggle those rabbit ears!

I agree. The more knowledge provided to people the better hopefully it will result in better communicating nodes. Thanks for the posts!

TheoL

@petewill Off course I'm very gratefull for what @hek and the team created. I've been playing with mySensors for a week now. And I'm still amazed by it. It's so easy to use. And I haven't had a failure yet. I'm currently promoting MySensors to everyone I know ;-).

@hek Do you happen to have some small stickers with the MySensors logo? Ik would love to put them on the sensors I create. Something like "Powered by MySensors"?

hek

@TheoL said:

Do you happen to have some small stickers with the MySensors logo? Ik would love to put them on the sensors I create. Something like "Powered by MySensors"?

Good idea. But currently not something we have.

Zeph

I like the idea of logo stickers. Better in some ways than typical swag like t-shirts and coffee cups, because if it goes on the devices we build that provides useful information, not just advertising. Maybe leave a blank section where a node number could optionally be written in with a sharpie, or a version.

Maybe "Networked by MySensors.org" rather than powered? ("Telepathy by MySensors"?)

TheoL

@Zeph How about Wired by MySensors ;) Because my experience is that it seems like all sensors and the gateway are wired together because of MySensors.

hek

Dome Stickers would be nice ;)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Custom-Made-with-Your-design-Clear-Dome-Resin-Sticker-Epoxy-Stickers-Label-1000pcs-free-shipping/1875126113.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.1.zlyb2B

Just wonder how we should make them cost-effective to buy for the community...

TheoL

@hek they look good to me! Maybe you can start a poll on this forum. Ask the members who would like to buy the stickers. If the majority wants them, we can order them.

Zeph

The domes are kind of cool for some things, but I think for this purpose I'd actually prefer flat stickers that fit smoothly on any side of a project box, even curved, without protruding and looking like something that should be pressed, or that should light up.

(OTOH domes atop an illuminated button (assuming translucent backing) would be awesome in some cases)

And with flat, (re) distribution in small batches is easier - one could get a lot of them in a minimum-postage conventional letter.

Kenney R

Hi Pete,

I'm thinking of using the AMS1117 3.3v regulator. Can I still use the 0.1uF and 10uF capacitors or do I need to use others. Because I run into sites saying I need to use 100uF and 1000uF and I think the difference is pretty big.

Regards,

Kenney

btw: Great video! It helped me a lot!!

petewill

@Kenney-R said:

I'm thinking of using the AMS1117 3.3v regulator. Can I still use the 0.1uF and 10uF capacitors or do I need to use others.

Yes, that should be fine. The capacitors are there to help filter the power to the radio (which can be sensitive).

Zeph

Regarding adding wires to the on-PCB antenna of a nRF24L01+ module, here's someone who used two wires (andcut some traces) to create a dipole. He knew that it was hard to really calculate the appropriate values, so he did empirical testing to find the best lengths, using a test program.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Enhanced-NRF24L01/

And is this from the same Pete or another one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpMnauHeR7Y

Zeph

Another interesting (albeit long) video testing range of various modules and antennae.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtM832Z0ujE

The interoperability of different types is somewhat surprising. Some had only a 2/3 packet success ratio even at close range, but retained that for a long distance, for example. He did try cap vs no cap, and with "whip" (really more of a stubby or rubber ducky style) antenna parallel or with one pointing at the other. The unit with PA+LNA and shield was overall pretty good for range.

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