Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?
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@dbemowsk I'm just trying (and apparently failing) to understand why someone would want to own a hypercube instead of an i3. OK, so the frame on a hypercube is more rigid. So....what? Does it do better prints? Does it do the same prints faster? i.e. why do I care? Even if the i3's frame isn't as rigid, maybe it's already rigid enough that being more rigid has no discernable advantage.
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Anyhow, partly for family reasons, I think I'm probably going to order the Prusa I3 MK3, even though production is backlogged with orders. 1. It seems more kid friendly than what else I've seen, and 2. its very low noise means I can run it at night without waking anyone up. My wife did not at all like the noise my CNC makes even during the day, so that's partly why it was banished to the garage. Maybe we can run the Prusa inside the house, provided there exist print filaments that are non-toxic when used for 3D printing (I haven't yet looked into that, but maybe PETG is one such filament).
The other, new reason, now is that maybe I can leverage Tom's research on filament properties. I hope I can be fairly confident of getting the same results as him, provided I use the same print profiles as what worked best for him on a particular filament. Since he's using an MK2 to develop his data, the results should translate very nicely. I'm hoping this could save me a lot of testing and trial-and-error.
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@neverdie I didn't realize that was your reasoning behind the questions. One nice thing about owning a 3d printer like the I3 is that even though it may not be quite as rigid, you can print parts to make it more rigid. I saw this meme on the Anet group that I am on on Facebook: You buy a 3D printer to print a 3D printer and then return the one you bought.
There was the talk of printing in ABS and PETG. Using the I3, you should be able to print ABS if you build an enclosure. As for PETG. that you should be able to print fine straight out of the box.
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@dbemowsk said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
You buy a 3D printer to print a 3D printer and then return the one you bought.
LOL. Very funny!
And from what I've seen in reviews, the corollary to that would be: buy a 3D printer that, even if it's bad, is at least good enough to print the parts needed to eventually make itself print well.
Looked at that way, 3D printers are a marriage made in heaven as the remedy for sub-par Chinese quality.
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It would be cool to have a printer that had both a regular hotend (for finely detailed print jobs) and a volcano hotend installed on it. Maybe then changing from one to the other might be as easy as changing which one gets get fed the filament.
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@neverdie I use XT60 and JST connectors on my hotends, 2 minutes job to replace, including heating and removing filament.
You seem to get the strong points of a cube design, speed, sturdiness and "enclosability".
The kinematics can be corexy or simple cartesian (flsun cube) or even wicked gantrys like the ultimaker.
As long as you are near the 30-35mm^3(cubic)/sec melting limit of the Volcano heatblock you are maxed out and can't go any faster in speed. Knowing that usual layer height is nozzle diameter/2 and layer width is 1.2nozzle diameter, divide the more realistic 30mm^3/sec to the widthheight and see the max speed you can achieve. That should determine the type of printer you use. Also remember the max speed is achieved only at long straight moves, acceleration plays a huge role, and accelerating a big heated bed with glass on top is not easy, while throwing around a light bowden hotend on a corexy is a breeze. Like comparing a narrow, curvy, mountain road for a big truck vs a sports car.
The noise is dependent on the drivers, use tmc2100 or later (2108, 2130, etc) and all noise is gone. What control board to use is a whole new story.
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@neverdie said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
It would be cool to have a printer that had both a regular hotend (for finely detailed print jobs) and a volcano hotend installed on it. Maybe then changing from one to the other might be as easy as changing which one gets get fed the filament.
Funny you should mention that. At the school district where I work we have some Makerbot 3D printers. These use the Makerbot Smart Extruders. I can literally change the extruder in less than 10 seconds. I don't know if they have different types of extruders, but that would be nice.
The back is magnetic (the four rounded tabs) with a spring loaded header and a locking shaft for the extruder motor (left of the pin header). Once your filament is unloaded, you literally pull the extruder off, and snap the new one on. If they had different extruder assemblies, it would be an easy change. Problem is, one extruder assembly costs just over $200 US.
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I am curious how retraction works with a volcano?
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@executivul said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
As long as you are near the 30-35mm^3(cubic)/sec melting limit of the Volcano heatblock you are maxed out and can't go any faster in speed. Knowing that usual layer height is nozzle diameter/2 and layer width is 1.2nozzle diameter, divide the more realistic 30mm^3/sec to the widthheight and see the max speed you can achieve.
Based on those assumptions, I calculate 41.7mm/sec as the max speed.
@executivul said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
accelerating a big heated bed with glass on top is not easy, while throwing around a light bowden hotend on a corexy is a breeze.
Well, that does make sense. So, if a corexy has a faster print speed, I guess it will be coming from that. So, what kind of print speed improvement (as compared to an i3 design) does that typically translate into? By that I mean, is it typically, say, a 10% improvement, or is it as much as a 400% improvement?
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@neverdie that depends entirely on the part you print, big simple square piece, no cutouts equals less difference. Complicate parts, lots of direction changes, equals more time savings. Remember every printer will print slower than what the slicer estimates, slicers don't take acceleration time into account usually, or they use a very conservative value.
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there are so much settings, and "little" things to know that's not easy to explain everything
Volcano is simply an extended e3dv6, maybe 1cm taller. You could just buy the volcano heatblock and nozzles and update an e3d. I have a lot of spares parts for hotends, handy.
It has a bigger heatblock=you can push more filament in it, and if you don't need a 0.2mm and very fine details, that can save a lot of time, like divide by 2 print timeAbout printers, well, I already exposed my points. When i started, I hesitated to build an i3 Steel (i wanted something sturdy, I prefer sturdy/fast/precise CNC's machines, makes sense to me for a good start). Remember the first commercial slow color ink printers 20-25 years ago??
So I was going back&forth, read a lot, asked for advices to a few gurus on reprap forums, and finally I thank them and am happy with my choice. But this a choice by a "maker" (not "afraid" to build/study new things) + I like good stuff.. and it cost me less than an original prusa! approx 350, 2years ago.imho, what I "don't like" in the hypercube is:
- rods and LMUU : I prefer vwheels like on the dbot printer (cheap vwheel on ali). With the slots acting as linear guides and replacing rods, it gets more sturdy
- the X axis with its vertical rods which is the same on prusa though.. not the best if you have weight on your gantry. Here, I use bowden setup, so it's lighter&faster to move. but I'm not fan of this vertical rods strategy especially for direct drive. that can work, but can be limiting too at a moment.
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@dbemowsk I am trying to tune that at the moment! Lots of stringing.
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@executivul
Are you using a thermocouple rather than the thermistor on your hotend? Since the E3D V6 has the capability of reaching thermistor destroying temperatures, I don't understand why a thermocouple isn't the default. I guess because it's not as accurate or something? If so, how is the lower accuracy of the thermocouple managed?
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@neverdie To be honest I use the cheap thermistors that came with the e3d clones I keep buying on ali.
I don't care about accuracy, I print a temptower and decide the best value for a filament lot that I buy and a nozzle/heatblock I intend to use. A full metal heatbreak is all you need, a teflon lined heatbreak tops at 240-260°C, the thermistor can go up to 300°C, ABS needs 240°C at most, PETG 220°C, PLA 200°C.
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@neverdie I don't know what the limit is for a thermister, but depending on the material you are printing, be it ABS, PETG or the like, these should not exceed 260°c. I typically print my ABS and PETG at around 240°c and have never had any issues with the thermister. Boards that run skynet or marlin as their firmware should have thermal runaway enabled.
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https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a211ha.10565794.0.0.2c2b262eKzSJCq&id=536005864964
This is my corexy workhorse, all metal, linear guides, has a few hundred hours of running without any trouble, only improvement I did was adding a piezo sensor for bed leveling.
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@executivul did you buy a kit?
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@gohan It seems the link @executivul provided is the kit. I wouldn't know how to order it, though, as I can't read Chinese.
The price is certainly cheap though. Is it simply called a TaoBao 3D printer? Is there some other source for it?
You know, it already has 2 stepper motors for the z-axis. If you could just add a third, then maybe true auto-leveling (i.e. not just in software) would be a snap, since 3 points determine a plane. Well, you get the idea. In practical terms it might be easier to have one at each corner of the bed (for a total of four). The extra oomph might also help with accelerating the bed, since that's the weak leak in all of this....
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Guys the printer is a kit. I used the Android taobao app and contacted the seller, he was nice enough to arrange shipping via a Shenzehn shipping company and DHL, paymend via paypal, the guy is reliable.
I've bought the mechanical kit only since I already had all the seppers and electronics from a Prusa i3 clone.
For me this was the best printer I could buy in August 2017 for that kind of money, far better than anything on aliexpress or ebay back then and even now. He was talking about adding it to ebay, but I don't know if he did it by now.
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@neverdie you can't! since any missalignment will cause binding on the z movement, the linear bearings and ball screws are pretty sensitive to missalignments
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I just now ordered the Prusa i3 Mk3 kit. It won't actually ship though until after March 26. However, on the plus side I'll be receiving the powder coated spring steel build bed, not the PEI sticker used by the Mk2 that many of those who ordered before me received.
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I have had an OrdBot Hadron for quite a few years now and it has been serving me well except for one thing - the size 200x200 as well as height are sometimes a limiting factor and especially so since most heated beds are much colder towards the edges.
So I decided to design and build a bigger CoreXY which is up and running now with a print size of rougly 450x450x500 mm. It is equipped with double E3D Bowden extruders and a 220V silicon heater for the alu printing bed.
The whole process was of course time (and cost) consuming but it was really fun and a great experience.
One essential aspect of all printing is to be able to keep the print volume warm to minimize warping etc. This means that the print volume should be enclosed and especially so when printing ABS and some others.
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This post is deleted!
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@mbj Out of curiosity, when you built your CoreXY, what board did you use for it? RAMPS?
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@dbemowsk Yes it is a Ramps but in a way it is only "partly" used. The bed heating is, as mentioned, at 220V so Ramps is only used for the signal an external device. Same with the extruder heaters, i e the Ramps is used for a signal to a more robust device. This remedies some of the weaknesses of the Ramps card and enables heating of two extruders simultaneously.
I have bought external drivers for the step motors as well but not yet found any reason to switch to these. So the motors are still driven by the 8225 drivers on the Ramps card.
In case anyone is interested, this is what "the Thing" looks like on the drawing board:
Presumably the Mysensors forum is not intended for discussions about 3D printers why I hope I have not violated any rules by jumping into the conversation.
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@mbj said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
Presumably the Mysensors forum is not intended for discussions about 3D printers why I hope I have not violated any rules by jumping into the conversation.
No worries:
General Discussion
A place to talk about whateeeever you want
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for print speed belt are better than a lead screw right?
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@gohan If we are talking about hobby stuff with comparable low cost the belt should be better but there are limitations like how much weight can be handled at high speeds without loosing precision. So it is a question with many answers depending on the circumstances.
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@gohan Yes, belts are inherently faster than a lead screw. Lead screws are typically used for the Z axis though as they are more precise.
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Of course I am referring to hobby stuff and on a corexy/hypercube setup since I saw also people using lead screws instead of belts. I was trying to understand what is the best option while maintaining the same precision with the option to have a dual extruder setup
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@gohan The beauty with a CoreXY is that both X and Y movements are handled by stationary motors which do not add any moving weight. Changing to lead screws means that most likely 2 motors are needed for Y (for a large design) and then another screw and motor for X and these will add to the moving weight. Of course a belt could also be used for X but the motor arrangement needed for this will still be a moving part.
Even if my CoreXY is really big it can print with same or even better resolution than my old OrdBot Hadron which is so much smaller. The OrdBot has a direct drive extruder and also the X motor arrangement attached as a moving parts and this affects what printing speeds can be achieved at a given resolution. The CoreXY has a Bowden arrangement which further lowers the moving weight.
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@mbj said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
Changing to lead screws means that most likely 2 motors are needed for Y
This was a question that came up in one of the groups I am a member of for my Anet A8 as it has 2 motors for the Z axis that lifts the gantry. Wouldn't it be possible to use one higher torque motor for the Y axis and then use a notched belt between them? With two motors, you have the risk of one missing a step and then having to re-position your Y axis from time to time because of that.
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@dbemowsk For Z I have seen solutions with motors and belts so this is possible. It is just another piece to design and the motor need to be sized for both which might be a bigger problem with Y than with Z. I have never thought about it so it is just a guess.
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@dbemowsk There is one example: Anet A2 dual Z single motor
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@pjr I guess the trick is to find a closed loop belt of suitable length and also make a screw design which can move enough sideways to tighten the belt.
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@mbj It would have to tighten and also not cause any binding of the Z axis during travel. I have see belt tensioner springs that snap on to the belt, but with this needing to be continual rotation, that wouldn't work.
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@dbemowsk I think that if pretty much nobody is doing that kind of setup, I guess the technical complications kind of outweight the benefits of using a single motor for Z axis, don't they?
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Tevo Black Widow uses a single z stepper with 2 screws.
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@dbemowsk there is the same with tensioning with motor: Tevo Tarantula Single Motor Dual Z Axis
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I'm in the middle of putting the Prusa IS3 MK3 together, and it is a lot of assembly. If it's true that the CR-10 can be put together in half an hour, then that's really quite impressive.
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@neverdie If it is anything like my Anet A8, mine took quite a few hours to put together. It looks like the MK3 has an all or at least mostly metal frame which is nice. The frame on min is laser cut acrylic and one of the big things with that is that the acrylic comes with a protective paper coating which needed to be peeled off prior to assembly. That part took over an hour in itself and was a pain.
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@neverdie the frame comes assembled is 2 pieces plus the control unit, so it is a matter of a few bolts and connecting the wires, nothing more.
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Attached is a photo of the benchy that was printed in PLA from a file that came
on the Prusa I3 MK3 SD Card. Not perfect, but I guess about par for a hobbyist 3D printer.
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Nice, a little stringing that you can solve with minor tweaks. What happened to the chimney?
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@gohan said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
What happened to the chimney?
Heck if I know. This is only the second object I've ever printed. However, if I had to guess, I'd guess that it's an artifact of the way it was sliced.
Presently I'm printing the Andreas Spiess power meter case: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2789890/#files
Just for the box itself, not even including the lid, the estimated print time is over 5 hours! So maybe when the megavolcano hot end comes out, I'll look into getting one.
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What layer hight did you use?
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@gohan Sound like it was a gcode file on the SD card, so my guess is that he didn't slice it and may not know.
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A note though if you are looking at choosing a slicer. For most of the time that I owned my 3D printer I was using Cura as my slicer. I have recently done some things using Slic3r and I find that it has a lot more options and does an overall better job at slicing. I also recommend a rapberry pi running octoprint.
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@dbemowsk Presently using https://prusacontrol.org/ , which is a simplified version aimed at fresh noobs like me. I used it to generate the gcode for the Andreas Spiess power meter case (referenced above).,
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Are any of the available printer filaments odor free? The free roll of Prusa PLA that came with my kit doesn't smell very good when printing with it.
I just now ordered: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MB3CV6K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
which claims to be "odor free." Well, here's hoping it is.
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@neverdie said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
Are any of the available printer filaments odor free?
I myself have not tried any that are completely odor free. I haven't had too much trouble with the PLA that I have used, and I have tried a number of different brands. ABS smells a lot worse than PLA.
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@dbemowsk I was referring to the box he was printing, maybe a thicker layer would cut the print time since he doesn't need to have fine details on the box
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@gohan I see. I thought you were referring to his benchy.
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PLA smells like hot popcorn/cooking oil, it's corn based afterall
ABS smells bad and it's a little toxic
PETG is almost odourless, very resistent, easy to print, doesn't warp or shrink when coolingBest slicer: Simplify3D
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PETG and PLA are easier to print. PLA is easier, but PETG is not hard to use, just need a few changes on settings for speed etc.
I use simplify3d tooNote:
- when you buy new filament rolls, it's good to check the thickness with caliper and calibrate your slicer for that. It can improve results
- better use different nozzles. one for PLA, and one for PETG. they don't melt at same temperature.
So if you melt PETG and then would like to use PLA, then you could get clogging because of PETG residue not melting at PLA temperature. - when sourcing parts on aliexpress for heatbreak etc (spare parts etc), it's good to remachine them. it can be a source of clogging too. They are not same quality as if you ordered them from e3d for example..
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@executivul Doesn't Simplify3D cost $$$ though? Slic3r is free.
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@dbemowsk said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
@executivul Doesn't Simplify3D cost $$$ though? Slic3r is free.
Unfortunately for them it does, but we know a guy...
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@executivul said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
Unfortunately for them it does, but we know a guy...
Never a bad thing...
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Worth mentioning: in fooling around with the Prusa slicer, I noticed that the estimated print times for the I3 MK3 are almost half of what they are for the I3 MK2. I presume that can be attributed to the Trinamic driver chips and also, possibly, Prusa's custom firmware's ability to effectively exploit them. Not sure as to whether or not Marlin can yet do the same.
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@neverdie said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
Are any of the available printer filaments odor free? The free roll of Prusa PLA that came with my kit doesn't smell very good when printing with it.
I just now ordered: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MB3CV6K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
which claims to be "odor free." Well, here's hoping it is.I tried it, and indeed it seems to have no odor. Hopefully (?) it's also not giving off any emissions that I can't smell either.
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I upgraded my Prusa I3 MK3 to use a Volcano with a 0.8mm nozzle. Now I can print a Benchie in 16 minutes!
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:763622
For enclosures, the relative speed improvement should be even more noticeable.
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@neverdie Are you using an E3D J-Head with your Volcano hot end? I am in the process of working on an E3D clone J-Head setup with a Bowden extruder, but I went with the standard heat block and not the Volcano.
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@dbemowsk All I did was swap the E3D V6 hot-end for the volcano hot end.
What is a J-Head?
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I also printed a Benchie in translucent PLA at 0.1mm layer height using the volcano, and it came out very smooth:
So, overall, it has pretty good dynamic range.
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@neverdie If you have an E3D V6, then you are running a J-Head.
Not sure exactly why they call it a J-Head as it looks nothing like a J shape...I assume you just swapped out the heat block? The Volcanos are like a standard heat block only stood on end.
https://www.amazon.com/J-head-Hotend-Filament-Extruder-Printer/dp/B010MSTVZO
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@neverdie That has got to be one of the smoothest benchies I've seen.
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@dbemowsk said in Anyone tried the Creality CR-10 3D printer?:
I assume you just swapped out the heat block?
Yes, that and using the longer nozzle that matches it.
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@dbemowsk it has to be with a 0.1mm layer height
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Thought I'd share a couple cool things I've learned recently.
One is that meshmixer offers treelike supports, which is pretty cool, and it's free:
You can import your model and just add the supports without using the rest of meshmixer, if that's all you want. That's how I plan to use it.The other is that if you want to print faster, but with good print quality, you should definitely look into linear advance.
How to use Linear Advance in Marlin – 10:58
— Teaching TechAnyone else learned anything cool lately?
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