My Slim 2AA Battery Node



  • @m26872 Thanks for your answer... The problem is I read a lot about it (which makes me kinda stupid that I still haven't achieved this).

    I tried to find atmel studio (I believe you are referring to atmel studio?) I couldn't find a proper mac version. I checked on the fuse calculator and still no success. Maybe some one could give me the correct fuse settings for AVR or a proper mac download link for atmel studio.

    OI know I am asking a lot, but it would help me a lot. Thanks.!!


  • Hardware Contributor

    @betonishard Yes, of course ask if you have problem. But I suggest you also make a new separate thread in General-, Hw- or Troubleshooting section about your issues.
    Maybe it's a good idea to ask in arduino forum as well.



  • Hello @m26872

    I succeeded now to burn the bootloader which you used (1Mhz). I just don't understand a phrase which you mentioned above.

    According to this you should use minimal startup time to reduce power in every 8s sleep cycle, but for the moment I don't care and stick to the default 65ms.

    Can you explain what is this ? and whether it is affecting badly on something or not ?

    Thanks..



  • its the fuse, which defines the rising time. the oscillator needs some time to come to the correct frequency. If you dont wait this time its possble that your sketch dont work correctly. But the microcontroller is the 65 ms longer not in sleep mode and need more battery power. but works more stable.



  • YEAH, YEAH YEAH! Thank you all for the help a big thanks to GertSanders. Now it seems to work perfectly. The current draw is now 4.6µa. Now i have to transfer from bredboard to pcb.
    Thank you very much!!!!!!



  • Here

    @betonishard said:

    @meddie are you also using the optiboot 9600 NOBOD in boards.txt the same as in the first post (fuse settings I mean)? And are you using avrdude arduino ide for mac?

    Hi no i use the ide for Windows i dont have a mac.

    Here is the hex File

    :107E0000112484B714BE81FFE6D085E08093810001
    :107E100082E08093C00088E18093C10086E0809377
    :107E2000C20089E18093C4008EE0BFD0259A86E02D
    :107E300023EC3FEF91E0309385002093840096BBC4
    :107E4000B09BFECF1D9AA8958150A9F7EE24FF2480
    :107E5000AA24A394B5E0CB2EA1E1BA2EF3E0DF2E45
    :107E600098D0813461F495D0082FA5D0023829F13B
    :107E7000013811F485E001C083E083D07FC08234F3
    :107E800011F484E103C0853419F485E09CD076C0F8
    :107E9000853579F47ED0E82EFF247BD0082F10E0C2
    :107EA000102F00270E291F29000F111F84D07801E1
    :107EB00065C0863521F484E086D080E0DECF84364C
    :107EC00009F040C066D065D0082F63D080E0E81686
    :107ED00080E7F80618F4F701D7BEE895C0E0D1E0D6
    :107EE00058D089930C17E1F7F0E0EF16F0E7FF06A2
    :107EF00018F0F701D7BEE8955ED007B600FCFDCFBD
    :107F0000A701A0E0B1E02C9130E011968C9111977F
    :107F100090E0982F8827822B932B1296FA010C0160
    :107F2000A7BEE89511244E5F5F4FF1E0A038BF0770
    :107F300051F7F701C7BEE89507B600FCFDCFB7BE05
    :107F4000E8951CC0843761F424D023D0082F21D0B9
    :107F500032D0F70185917F0114D00150D1F70EC0C6
    :107F6000853739F428D08EE10CD085E90AD08FE02E
    :107F700084CF813511F488E018D01DD080E101D084
    :107F80006FCF982F8091C00085FFFCCF9093C600E3
    :107F900008958091C00087FFFCCF8091C00084FDD0
    :107FA00001C0A8958091C6000895E0E6F0E098E150
    :107FB000908380830895EDDF803219F088E0F5DF4B
    :107FC000FFCF84E1DECF1F93182FE3DF1150E9F7D5
    :107FD000F2DF1F910895282E80E0E7DFEE27FF27CC
    :027FE000099402
    :027FFE0000057C
    :0400000300007E007B
    :00000001FF
    

    Just create a new txt file put this code in there and rename the file to atmega328_1b.hex

    this is my boards.txt:

    ##############################################################
    
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.name=ATmega328 on a breadboard 1MHz internal clock, fast start, 1.8V BOD, 4800baud upload
    
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.upload.protocol=arduino
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.upload.maximum_size=32256
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.upload.speed=4800
    
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.low_fuses=0x42
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.high_fuses=0xDE
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x07
    
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.file=atmega/atmega328_1b.hex
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.unlock_bits=0x3F
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.lock_bits=0x2F
    
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.build.mcu=atmega328p
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.build.f_cpu=1000000L
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.build.core=arduino:arduino
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.build.variant=arduino:standard
    
    
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.bootloader.tool=arduino:avrdude
    atmega328_1mhz_4800baud.upload.tool=arduino:avrdude
    

    this worked for me!


  • Hardware Contributor

    @ahmedadelhosni I've never verified it by measuring, but I understood like @meddie about Gammons writing.
    To get rid of those 65ms startup time you should use fuses 42-DE-FF (Lo-Hi-Ext) instead of 62-DE-FF.

    If anyone could verify and measure current between sleep cycles and share some results, it would be great.



  • @meddie and @all Tonight I think I have fixed my issue however how I do not understand so maybe someone can explain, or maybe I think I have fixed it and it is not fixed at all.

    On the arudino website it states that when you burn your bootloader you have to connect pin 13,12,11 and pin 10 to reset (and ofcourse 5v and ground). AFter burning the bootloader you should replace it with the rx and tx cable and disconnect 13,12,11 and connect reset to reset. Each time I did this I got the error of Yikes! However tonight by accident I forgot to rewire the pins to rx and tx and press “Upload using programmer” all of a sudden it stated “done uploading”.

    I tested this with blink sketch so I attached a led to pin13 and ground. The led started to blink. I was happy however did not understand…. or is this just a n00b mistake



  • @meddie said:

    @betonishard said:

    Hello all,

    I have been struggling with this for a couple of weeks now and I just can seem to figure out a good way to upload sketches to the arduio328p-pu. First of all I use this setup;

    I use arduino for mac 1.6.5
    I use a breadboard with a crystal, two capacitors and a resistor between reset and 5v.
    An arduino to burn bootloader (with the chip inserted and sketch arduinoISP uploaded).
    I use the same hex files as you guys with 1a. I used the optiboot 9600 BOD, just the 9600 and the 4800. Uploading the bootloader is no problem at all. Arduino ide burns the bootloader without any problems. However when I try to upload the sketches I get different errors. The “Yikes” version in which it states that my device signature is not ok and programmer not responding. I use upload using programmer.

    So, I tried to upload the arduino uno version to rule out all miscabling. So what I did was upload the arduino uno bootloader, tried to upload the blink sketch afterwards and it works. So my cables are ok….

    I thought to repeat the exact same process with the boot version above. However no succes, I keep getting stuck at uploading sketches. Is it just not possible?

    I read about setting the fuse options and I read that when you define these in the boards.txt, they will be set as the fuseparameters. When I check the boards txt above i see that fuse settings are: L0x62,H0xde,E0x07, however when I open the png file (first post, fuse settings) it states L0x62,H0xDE,E0xFF. Furthermore the lockbits are at 0xCF, compared to the boards.txt 0x2F. What is true and how should I set these. I don’t see a possibility in arduino ide (I use another arduino to upload, so I don’t have a tiny or USBASP.

    Help would be much appreciated here because I have like 30 boards sitting catching dust.

    Hi, i had the same problem, but then i tried the 1b hex and since i burned this it works for me.

    @meddie @betonishard I guess I know the solution. Yesterday I begun creating my nodes with the same setup and faced the same issue. When You upload your sketch, choose your board, and the important thing which will solve the "Yikes" error, is to choose "Arduino as ISP" not "ArduioISP". You will find it under Tools > Programmer.

    Another thing. If you are chip is the one which comes with the arduino UNO, then you have to add a crystal at the first time when you change the bootloader. According to what I read yesterday (and this solved an issue also which I faced) that the chip is already configured to use external crytsal. Thus (for the first time only), I tried adding a 20 Mhz, and 10Mhz as I didn't have 16Mhz, and surprisingly both configurations worked 🙂

    let me know please if that helps.



  • @meddie THanks for the answer.

    Can you please also explain your final result to reach 4uA. I have also the same problem and current is 90uA and sometimes drops to 20uA, then rises again. Thanks.

    Edit: I figured out that I was using the 3.3v from arduino UNO. CHanged to two 1.5 batteries. THe current drops to 1.4uA when contact is open but sometimes it is also 15 uA. And when contact is closed it is 60 uA, and sometimes drops. Don't know why it is not stable.

    Edit 26.1.2016: I managed to reach 1.4uA with door opened, and 15uA when closed. I guess the problem was with the wiring. DOn't really know but I used a battery holder instead. I will try to rechange the resistor value to 1Mohm and reupdate.

    Edit 27.1.2016: ok I created another node and connected the contact sensor in series with the 1Mohm and the output is the voltage divider. now it is 1.4uA when open and 4.6uA when closed.

    Thanks



  • @m26872 said:

    Board releases:

    Well, can I ask an update ? It's about the labels, couldn't we have them on the two faces ? It's always good to know where are Vcc and Gnd at first eye I think.
    After all, the atmega and nrf are the only components that can't move to the other side. But even there, knowing the digital and analog pin should be useful !



  • My PCBs have just arrived and I was going to build a couple of sensors but can´t figure out the first part of how to burn the bootloaders.

    For starters can I just use one of the PCBs and solder the atmega socket and a 6 pin header near the nrlf-radio headers? And use this with a Atmega-programmer ?or do I need to solder any more components?

    I tried with both a usbasp and a USBtinyISP but could not get any new device to show up in the arduino IDE. But I don´t know if it is a software issue with win10 or if it is hardware related.



  • I've made it with that link: http://www.gammon.com.au/breadboard with no cristal.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Cliff-Karlsson Apart from the 2x3pin AVRISP you also need to supply power (battery?) Maybe easiest by the 1x6pin FTDI Vcc and Gnd pins. No other components should be needed.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Pierre-P said:

    @m26872 said:

    Board releases:

    Well, can I ask an update ? It's about the labels, couldn't we have them on the two faces ? It's always good to know where are Vcc and Gnd at first eye I think.
    After all, the atmega and nrf are the only components that can't move to the other side. But even there, knowing the digital and analog pin should be useful !

    I think I'll collect "improvements" in a list. I agree that some labels could be added, but I don't think it's enough for a new board release.
    Also the boardhouse credit collection (which becomes MySensors donations) will be scattered and smaller if there's many versions and branches.



  • @m26872 said:

    AVRISP

    Ok so the AVRISP does not provide any power even as it is self powered from usb?


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Cliff-Karlsson At least that's how my programmer works (Avrisp MkII). I think it's a thing to not interfere when it's programmed "in circuit".



  • @m26872. Thanks for the design, very nice.

    On your posted picture of the GY-21, why have you added extra resistors? The Gy-21 has it's own pull ups 4.7k for the i2c bus, so additional resistors are not required!

    I removed the voltage regulator from the gy-21 board as well (detailed elsewhere in the forum) to save a little extra power. The only caveat to this is you've got to remember to remove the radio and gy-21 when programming using the usbtinyisp or usbasp as they run at 5v which could damage them.

    I'm using the (hallard) breakout board for the rfm69cw which has a much better range than the nrf24's (no idea why people use these unless they live in a rabbit hutch)

    Anyway, thanks once again for sharing.

    Glen.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @betgear If you had read the posts further down (just like the first line says), you would have seen that the discussion and explainations are already there. But thanks for sharing you results.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @betgear My guess is that the main reason for people to use nRF24 is because the MySensors support for RFm69 came rather recently.

    Edit: For me it's the price. I buy 20(!!!) pcs nRF24 for the price of one RFm69. Main reason is different shipping costs.



  • I just need to ask one more time so that I am absolutley clear abot the bootloader burning. I still cant figure out how to do this with my USBtiny.

    First of all my USBtiny provides 3.3 or 5v does it matter what voltage that I provide?
    And If I just place the ISCP (?) header and atmega socket I do not need to solder any more components or provide any more power to make the circut complete?


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Cliff-Karlsson said:

    First of all my USBtiny provides 3.3 or 5v does it matter what voltage that I provide?

    No, as long as it's only the Atmega there.

    And If I just place the ISCP (?) header and atmega socket I do not need to solder any more components or provide any more power to make the circut complete?

    Yes, correct. (ICSP)


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Cliff-Karlsson Forgot to add that there is already a bootloader on that requires external crystal, you have to add it before to get it work.



  • Ok thanks for the info. So if I do not have any crystals it is not possible to burn the bootloader in any way?


  • Hardware Contributor

    @m26872 said:

    @Cliff-Karlsson Forgot to add that IF there is already a bootloader on that requires external crystal, you have to add it before to get it work.

    (the important word "if" dropped out. )


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Cliff-Karlsson said:

    Ok thanks for the info. So if I do not have any crystals it is not possible to burn the bootloader in any way?

    No, not if its fuses are set for external crystal.


  • Hardware Contributor

    An ATMEGA328 coming from ATMEL is normally set to use the internal oscillator and has no bootloader. You will then have no need to put a crystal.

    I do this anyway on my breadboard (for the 28 pin DIP versions).

    If you have the SMD version of the atmega328 (the AU variant), I'm assuming it is set in the same default state (no crystal needed, running on internal oscillator).



  • @Cliff-Karlsson i added 10 Mhz and it worked as I didnt have 16 Mhz. Also tested with 20Mhz and worked



  • First node. Door sensor.
    Great boards :+
    0_1453937636107_1453937611984-964477924.jpg

    0_1453938444465_1453938399889-988876899.jpg

    .



  • @ahmedadelhosni said:

    @meddie THanks for the answer.

    Can you please also explain your final result to reach 4uA. I have also the same problem and current is 90uA and sometimes drops to 20uA, then rises again. Thanks.

    Edit: I figured out that I was using the 3.3v from arduino UNO. CHanged to two 1.5 batteries. THe current drops to 1.4uA when contact is open but sometimes it is also 15 uA. And when contact is closed it is 60 uA, and sometimes drops. Don't know why it is not stable.

    Edit 26.1.2016: I managed to reach 1.4uA with door opened, and 15uA when closed. I guess the problem was with the wiring. DOn't really know but I used a battery holder instead. I will try to rechange the resistor value to 1Mohm and reupdate.

    Edit 27.1.2016: ok I created another node and connected the contact sensor in series with the 1Mohm and the output is the voltage divider. now it is 1.4uA when open and 4.6uA when closed.

    Thanks

    Yes, i used a 1 Mohm reisitor instead of the internall pull up. You can read this few messages above. This was a tip from GertSander



  • Hi, I build the board but I still have issues with burning ATMega328p chip.
    Can you describe and attach files that should work?
    The only success "burn" I had with burning bootloader was with hex and boards entry from first post using arduino uno and ips programer ( so it is like burning uno bootloader with your setup)
    After that I was trying to upload sketch but than it was not possible because of "?# in boards file but there is no such sign.
    I rewert file to stock and burn sketch like it would be standard uno board but using programer and not standard usb. No idea if it is corect so that is why I ask for more details.
    Thank you in advance
    Tomasz


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Tomasz-Pazio Sounds more like some issue with the IDE and boards file than hw and fuses/bootloader. Have you tried different IDE versions?



  • @ahmedadelhosni
    what is it on the door? is that a plastic wrap?



  • @meddie
    0_1454272780491_1453938474660-1453938399889-988876899.jpg

    The sensor is drawn by black rectangle. This is adhesive tape like this : http://2.imimg.com/data2/YX/UQ/MY-3910304/sale-bopp-clarity-adhesive-tape-250x250.jpg

    The other red rectangle on the door was old tape I didn't remove. Actually before getting my boards I used a bread board and a battery for testing, so I needed a tape for support and keeping it in place 🙂



  • 👍



  • @m26872 thanks for advice, bootloader burned on IDE 1.0.x and after that, sketches are uploaded properly on 1.6.x.

    One more question, how it should report battery state? I can not see any variable created for this in Vera.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Tomasz-Pazio Great! If I remember Vera correct, a variable should be created automaticly upon first message if you use the sendbatterylevel() fuction.



  • anyone care to write down the exact precedure of how to burn a new bootloader to the atmel chip? what files goes to what folders and so on.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Cliff-Karlsson I'm experimenting with several versions of Optiboot (various upload and upload combinations) for my board. Once that is done, I will add it to the documentation of my board. I'm extending the sketch found here:

    http://www.gammon.com.au/forum/?id=11635


  • Hardware Contributor



  • OK, so finally I have received most of the parts I need to build a few of these sensors. I want to go with a temp sensor at first, the si7021. So I wanted to check what "other bits" I need (newb alert).

    0_1454624296448_upload-80039080-fce7-4484-b238-a54bdb2d28fd

    From there, do I need both 1 and 2? If so, what are these?

    0_1454624355650_upload-36748b2e-623b-4953-bdb4-394fbe264ef6

    From here, what are 3 and 4? Do I need both?

    Also, depending on the answers above, do I solder to exactly the same pins? Have I missed anything?

    Thanks



  • Ok, finaly succeded in burning the bootloader. Now comes next part. Fuses and lockbits, I have no idea what this means but is this what I need to do?

    avrdude -C ../etc/avrdude.conf -c usbasp -B5 -p ATmega328P -U lfuse:w:0x62:m -U hfuse:w:0xDE:m -U efuse:w:0x07:m -U lock:w:0x2F:m
    


  • oh, yes! And you have to be carefully with them, because to set the fuses wrong, can destroy your µcontroller



  • if you look to message Nr 179 you will find my bootloader and the correct fuses for this. But its a 1MHz Bootloader and the fuses too.
    Dont use it if you want to run it at 8 MHz.



  • Web-based fuse calculator
    A different way of evaluating fuses is presented at this web page:
    http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc

    At the bottom I inserted your fuses.
    Translation:
    Divide by8-> if your mcy board uses 8Mhz, then you now use 1Mhz Clock (Good this enables that you now can use a lower voltage down to 1,9V)
    SPI is enabled, then you can program your mcu with FTDI cable
    BOD mcu will not power down mcu when you have a low voltage (So you can use down to 1,9V)
    I write 1,9Volt since this is the lowest voltage your NRF24L01+ can use for operation

    0_1454685582246_upload-5f146d65-d819-455d-8d3c-ed029eb79abb



  • Sorry for asking the same questions over and over but I have just used the files linked at the top of this thread.

    This is the bootloader that I used:

    atmega328_1a.hex (Optiboot for 9600baud at 1MHz)
    
    
    ##############################################################
    # Add the new board to boards.txt (normally located at "C:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware\arduino\avr"
    # The *.bootloader.* etries only matters if you want to program bootloader (and fuses) from Arduino IDE. 
    # See http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc (select Atmega328p) for interpretation of fuse values and how 
    # extended fuses are written in different applications (07h in Arduino IDE = FFh in Atmel studio).
    ##############################################################
    
    apm96.name=APM Optiboot internal 1MHz noBOD 9600baud
    
    apm96.upload.tool=avrdude
    apm96.upload.protocol=arduino
    apm96.upload.maximum_size=32256
    apm96.upload.speed=9600
    apm96.bootloader.tool=avrdude
    apm96.bootloader.low_fuses=0x62
    apm96.bootloader.high_fuses=0xde
    apm96.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x07
    apm96.bootloader.path=optiboot_v50
    apm96.bootloader.file=atmega328_1a.hex
    apm96.bootloader.unlock_bits=0x3F
    apm96.bootloader.lock_bits=0x2F
    apm96.build.mcu=atmega328p
    apm96.build.f_cpu=1000000L
    apm96.build.core=arduino
    apm96.build.variant=standard
    
    

    Do I still need to add fuses or is that done when the bootloader is burned?



  • @Cliff-Karlsson

    It is already done when you burn the bootloader.

    apm96.bootloader.low_fuses=0x62
    apm96.bootloader.high_fuses=0xde


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Cliff-Karlsson said:

    Ok, finaly succeded in burning the bootloader.

    Great news!! With Arduino as ISP? Any particular tips to share?



  • @m26872 I am fairly sure that all methods work in normal cases but nothing worked for me fore some reason 🙂 .

    The only way I could get it to work was when I finaly put the chip in an Arduino Uno clone with 328p Dip(?) socket and connected an USBtiny ISP to the ISCP of that Uno. It took just a couple of seconds and then it was done :).

    I flashed like 6-7 ships right away with bootloader and blink-sketch just for fun. Biggest problem now is to get the damn chip in/out of the sockets without bending any legs. But I ordered a chip extractor to remedy that problem (in 4-6 weeks :()


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Cliff-Karlsson
    👍

    To get the ICs out from the DIP socket, I just use a small screw driver (2-3mm) and gently push it all the way under from one side only. And of course, don't push in the IC to hard to begin with.



  • @Cliff-Karlsson
    You shall buy Textool ZIF socket. not sure which fits your Arduino, If you at some point get's lazy (Solder less, and accept to use a little more space) and use Arduino Pro Mini then textool 224-3344 ZIF will be your friend



  • Hi all, I'm seeing replies, but I'm not sure if any are aimed at my question? I think not?


  • Hardware Contributor

    @rsachoc
    I've started a new thread aimed at your question. I'll soon delete much of the content in the post you based your question on and refer to the new thread instead.



  • it would be nice when a atsha204 a an a flash rom where placed to pcb for signing and ota


  • Hardware Contributor

    @meddie I don't use any of it myself yet, but I know it's only a matter of time until they'll be needed. I think a add-on board to all already existing nodes would be my personal priority then, but new users would prefer it on-board of course and only populate if needed. I'll put on my not yet posted future requests list. (I remember top-side labels are also wanted.) A thing to remember though, is that my Slim Node design is a concept was a lean and simplicity concept, without preparations for maximum flexibility etc.

    As I've said earlier - if anyone like to do their own Slim Node design, you're very welcome. And if you share it, it's even better.


  • Hardware Contributor



  • What i like on this node is the great idea with the casing. To use a cable duct is a great idea. We have wooden windows and i found in a diy market cable ducts in wooden look
    like this:
    wooden look cable duct

    The Problem is that the size is 15x15 mm outside. inside the pcb can be max. 13 mm.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @meddie I think 15x15 is very common and should be to prefer, but if I remember correct there's not enough space for AA batteries, or is there?


  • Hardware Contributor

    @GertSanders Good job! If you go the SMD way I think a lot could be done. Perhaps matching AAA width? Leave some (only few) SMD pads open for sensor connection, no proto area, etc.



  • oh, yes. You have right, the battery fits in it, but its a little bit too big so i cant close the cover. Damn i didnt try it before.
    ok the i have to look for a graeter duct.


  • Hero Member

    Currently this is my favorite board. Minimal size, traditional components and just enough breadboard space. A few variations:
    0_1454859878498_upload-23af4fbe-6938-4079-9fc4-d149c8950370 Soldered an 8 mHz resonator (a 'crystal' which does not need the capacitors) for a more stable clock.

    0_1454860192227_upload-c6f3a164-b5cb-43f5-af82-c556674568f4 0_1454860883223_upload-351808cf-868d-4076-80ce-2e4b05ec4898 Soldered a 3.3v LDO (662k) under the radio to have it powered with a rechargeable Lipo (4.1V max) battery. And added a voltage divider to measure the actual battery voltage.

    0_1454860058592_upload-a677913a-22a8-466d-920d-ae620591088b 0_1454860344864_upload-77335242-a0b4-4371-85f5-4d11731c0868
    With a SMD version of the radio. Needs some creative soldering...

    0_1454860702395_upload-e1af1f72-11c5-409d-9eca-762e3c657183 Compared to an other favourite ( @GertSanders )

    It would even be better if the smd radio could be soldered on the board. Kicad is giving me a headache so if anybody wants to volunteer with a panelized design.... (I will reward you with a free batch of 'dirty' boards, just drop me a pm)


  • Hardware Contributor

    AA batteries are 14mm in diameter. AAA batteries are 10mm in diameter.

    I have single AAA batteryholders which are 13mm wide at the base, and including a battery they are 13mm high at the highest point.

    LEGRAND sells 16x16mm cable ducts (http://www.ecataleg.be/fr/category/2751/16-x-16), which is what I plan to use, but the 15x15 ducts should work as well.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @m26872 I'm trying to make a full SMD board with the smd variant of the nrf24.

    So far, my first design is a 21mm square.

    I have been thinking about a long 13mm x 100mm variant. That would allow plenty of space, at least 1 AAA, but more importantly would allow panelisation when combining with a 13x100 board for two AAA battery holders.

    This would give 3 sensor nodes + 3 battery holder boards in one 100x100 panel, or 6 sensor boards if we use your technique of "ty-wrapping" batteries.



  • A couple of more questions. In one of the pictures at the top the electrulyte 4,.7 uf capacitator is placed closer to the atmel chip and the 0.1 uf (c5) is placed closest to the edge does it matter witch capacitator goes where?

    The 10k resistor should be 1/4 or 1/8 W according to the bom. I had some small 1/6 W 10k resistors can I use them? I also have some bigger blue 10k resistor that I do not know the W rating on.

    Where did you purchase the female pin-header that are used for the chips? I have some atmega chip-sockets that are quite narrow and it is hard to fit the components underneath. I also have some other female pin-headers but they are atleast twice as high than the ones in the pictures.


  • Mod

    @AWI said:

    panelized design

    If you're struggling with panelizing boards I can recommend the excellent gerber tools from Stijn Kuipers.

    It allows you to create designs like this (10x10cm, DirtyPCBs):

    0_1454871223582_20150501-111911.jpg

    Drop him a message and he'll send you a download link.


  • Hero Member

    @Yveaux Tnhx, but I guess I am not ready for the first step (creating/ adapting a board in Kicad) yet ....


  • Mod

    @AWI Sorry, can't help you with that. All Eagle here 😅


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Yveaux I tried to find an email address on the website, but apart from a LinkIn link I could not find anything. Also, in LinkedIn you need a paying version to be able to send InMail, and I do not have a paid account. Would you care to tell me how you were able to send Stijn a message ?


  • Hero Member

    @Cliff-Karlsson You can swap the capacitors and use all resistor dissipation values. The pin headers you can find here for example


  • Mod

    @GertSanders It's been a while, but my first contact was through his Twitter account. Try that first, otherwise ping me.


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Yveaux I do not have a twitter account, so no joy. And I feel stupid to say so, but how do you ping someone on this forum ?



  • @Yveaux i remember once that i read that dirtypcbs does not allow for different designs in their panelized boards. Am i correct ?


  • Mod

    @ahmedadelhosni apparently not 😊
    The board above was produced by ditypcb's. In fact they're one of the few (only?) cheap PCB manufacturers that allow panelization.



  • @Yveaux aha. I thought that this means multiple (same) design not different. Thanks 🙂


  • Hardware Contributor

    Updated first post with share stats and info.

    Feature requests and example links will come asap.



  • This post is deleted!


  • Just ordered my first set of boards; v2.0 in Red; can't wait to try these out!

    Thanks @m26872



  • Hi

    I've just ordered a set of the PCB boards and looking forward to putting these together mainly into reed switches and motion sensors

    I have scanned the whole thread and there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive list of exactly which components are required anywhere here, well not all in one place at least.

    Can I just confirm exactly what is required to build a senor node.

    1 x PDB board
    1 x ATMega328p 28pin PDIP
    1 x NRF24L01+ radio module
    1 x 4.7uF Decoupling-Capacitor for radio (I assume these are still required??)
    1 x right angle pin header for connecting to program and connect batteries
    1 x Length of cable ducting for housing
    2 x AA batteries
    Cables for connecting batteries
    Battery connector
    1 x senor of choice
    I notice there seem to be an assortment of capacitors/regulators in most of the photos on this thread, but no definitive list of which are needed. (I am very new to all this so please excuse my ignorance)

    Extras needed
    1 x FTDI USB to TTL Serial Adapter

    Have I missed anything of my list? Also I would be really grateful for links to some of the above components.

    Sorry these are very basic noob questions, but I feel it would really helpful for people such as myself to have everything clearly listed in one place, as the main mysensors build pages do. So people know exactly what is needed.


  • Hardware Contributor


  • Hardware Contributor

    A nice additions would be a place to solder a ATSHA204A on board like the Sensebender! I'll try to make the change in KiCad!



  • @Soloam
    and a flash module for OTA Sketch Uploads 🙂



  • Thanks @GertSanders for showing me the BOM I hadn't realised it was there, but do I need everything listed there to get it working properly?


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Matt-Pitts
    I'm assuming that if a designer goes through the trouble of listing items on a bom, they are needed.

    But you are right, that is not always the case. I'm not at my Mac (using a miniscreen now), so i can not multitask.



  • Hello,
    I have problems to upload the scatch to the bare Amtel. I use an USB-TTL FTL Adaper and connect, RX/TX and Reset Pin with 100n->DTR. But I got always errors on uploading.

    The bootloader I have successfull burned with an raspberry pi and gpio (http://www.lxccu.com/hb-raspberry-bootloader-update😞

    sudo bin/avrdude -Cbin/avrdude.conf -p m328p -P gpio -c gpio -U lfuse:w:0x62:m -U hfuse:w:0xde:m -U efuse:w:0x07:m -U lock:w:0x2F:m -e -Uflash:w:1443392692398-atmega328_1a.hex:i
    avrdude: safemode: Fuses OK

    How can I got it working?
    Thank you

    Thomas



  • Have you tried to upload a standard arduino bootloader?, are you using correct baud settings for uploading?



  • @bjacobse No, used the bootloader from here (http://forum.mysensors.org/uploads/files/1443392692398-atmega328_1a.hex). This is an bootloader for the internal clock.
    Baud settings to upload the sketch or the bootloader?


  • Hardware Contributor

    @Tom71 I think the question was if you have been successful with programming a standard bootloader to a standard Arduino board and then uploading and running a sketch?



  • @m26872 Sure, but not with an bootloader (optiboot with intenal clock) on an bare Atmega. Later I will try this: http://forum.mysensors.org/uploads/files/1454449901412-7.png
    I build some MySensors with an Arduino Micro, but not with only an Atmega.

    Update: I don't know what's different, but this works. Perhaps I forget to connect Reset from FDL -> Pin 1.
    Now I can upload simple sketches.



  • I have not had success to upload a sketch via FTDI on an Arduino ProMini using Optiboot. When I flash an ordinary bootloader (Taken from the Arduino IDE), I can easily upload a sketch via FTDI.
    so that's why I recommend to flash a standard bootloader and check if you then can upload a sketch afterwards.



  • @bjacobse Witch bootloader you have taken?



  • Hi I'm just about to start ording parts of the slim node. Looking through the thread I'm thinking based on my limited knowledge of arduino, I might be better off buying chips which already have a bootloader installed?

    Can people advise, how difficult is it to upload the boot loader? Thanks


  • Hardware Contributor



  • @Tom71
    well I have not yet started to use the Mysensor specific bootloader. When I use the optiboot, I upload sketch with my USBtiny (so no FTDI), and when I use FTDI for uploading sketch I used the "Arduino Pro or pro mini (3,3V, 8MHz) w/ATmega328"



  • @bjacobse I thought the USBtiny is only to upload the bootloader, not the mysensors software.
    I did two things:

    1. Burn the bootloader atmega328_1a.hex to an bare Atmega328p with an Arduino as ISP
    2. Upload an simple scetch to the Atmega with an RX/TX uploader (I used an USB to TTL with an FTDI and also an Ardunino Uno without the Atmega chip, like here http://forum.mysensors.org/uploads/files/1454449901412-7.png) Both are working.

    I'm still waiting for the PCB. After receiving I want to build the motion sensor.



  • @Tom71
    USBtiny is a programmer, and can both burn (upload) sketch + burn bootloader


  • Hardware Contributor

    Difference is that if you use a ISP programmer you will use the complete memory. You can use ISP to upload a bootloader which is required to burn a sketch with ftdi into remaining memory but its possible to use a ISP to flash a sketch without bootloader as well.



  • @Matt-Pitts
    Depending of your Arduino, the USBtiny is easy to use. Maybe your Aeduino have the pinheader so then only click the cable and burn bootloader. I use Arduino Pro Mini and have an adapter ZIF socket that fits my Arduino ProMini
    https://learn.adafruit.com/usbtinyisp



  • @bjacobse I'm out of fucus. What was the problem? Can you burn the bootloader+sketch with an USBtiny on an bare Atmgea328p? Connected on MISO/MOSI/SCK/RESET/VCC/GND?
    The Arduino Pro Mini is different from the Atmgea328p. On the arduino is an external clock.



  • @Tom71
    Can you burn the bootloader+sketch with an USBtiny on an bare Atmgea328p?
    I have no idea - I have never tried this.
    My originally point is that I have had similar problem to upload a sketch with a FTDI on an Arduino Pro Mini that have been flashed with Optiboot, and when flashed with a "normal" bootloader I could easily upload a sketch with FTDI. I mainly use Arduino Pro Mini 3,3V 8MHz...and that have the crystals etc in place



  • @bjacobse Which Optiboot loader did you exactly use? I can try it. I have an Arduino Pro Mini.


 

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