OTA flash types for MySensors
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In theory there is nothing holding back on using a 4 or 8Mbit SPI flash. DualOptiboot ony supports reading the first 64Kbytes.. The rest could in theory be used to store sensor data, display data (in case you have a graphical display, and have some pictures to show).
And by the way, EEPROM is not FLASH, it's two different storrage technologies. Eeprom, you can rewrite a single byte/cell, while flash you need to erase a whole page (Multiple bytes / cells) before rewriting data to it. Also eeprom's can usually sustain a much higher re-programming rate than flash
Good to know, I was not clear on the difference between flash and eeprom
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Summary: MYSContoller is used for OTA updates regarding the bootloader used. The bootloader is responsible to handle the packets sent by copying it to an external EEPROM and then doing a reset, this is DualOptiboot. The other scenario is using MYSBootloader where the bootloader resets the Atmega and the bootloader handles the received packets with the new firmware.
Correct me please if I am mistaken.
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The other topic which I guess is important to be included here is using Signing with OTA.
Do both bootloaders support Signing during flashing ? The answer is in the below link.http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/2997/signing-or-encrypting-the-data/27
This discussion worth to be read. Originally it talks about signing vs encryption but I have asked the question regarding Signing in bootloader and that was the answer of Anticimex
NB: tekka has released MYSBootloader 1.3pre (1.3NS) and it states also that upcoming release (1.3S) will have Signing support. Link to topic
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The other topic which I guess is important to be included here is using Signing with OTA.
Do both bootloaders support Signing during flashing ? The answer is in the below link.http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/2997/signing-or-encrypting-the-data/27
This discussion worth to be read. Originally it talks about signing vs encryption but I have asked the question regarding Signing in bootloader and that was the answer of Anticimex
NB: tekka has released MYSBootloader 1.3pre (1.3NS) and it states also that upcoming release (1.3S) will have Signing support. Link to topic
I would like to keep this discussion on the Hardware topic: which flash memory can be used for OTA ?
All other - relevant no doubt - questions you raise deserve a separate discussion in the Development topic. They are not hardware related.
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I would like to keep this discussion on the Hardware topic: which flash memory can be used for OTA ?
All other - relevant no doubt - questions you raise deserve a separate discussion in the Development topic. They are not hardware related.
@GertSanders Yeah write :) Just forgot the title of the topic during our discussions :)
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I do not have a list of working flash types but did a search for them. See below a list of what I found and think could fit. I also added where the specifications differ from the AT25DF512C. As I do not know exactly what is important from the specs I would appreciate it if someone with more knowledge on the topic could help to differentiate about what's important and what's not.
At least if one of the chips is not usable we can add them here, too - in a negative list. So we have information on those working and those who are not working in one place.That's what I found:
SST25VF512A -> Datasheet: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/268/25090A-708983.pdf
- operating voltage only 2.7 - 3.6V
- no Dual Output Read?
- 33 MHz max. frequency
- Couldn't find anything about JEDEC Standard Manufacturer and Device ID Read Methodology
SST25WF512A -> Datasheet: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/268/20005016C-709021.pdf
- operating voltage only 1.65 - 2.9V
- no Dual Output Read?
- 40 MHz max. frequency
- Couldn't find anything about JEDEC Standard Manufacturer and Device ID Read Methodology
ISSI IS25CD512 -> Datasheet: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/198/25CD512-010-LD020-258252.pdf
- operating voltage only 2.7 - 3.6V
- 100 MHz max. frequency
- supports JEDEC Standard Manufacturer and Device ID Read Methodology
W25X05-SN -> Datasheet: http://www.winbond.co.jp/resource-files/w25x05cl_e01.pdf
- operating voltage only 2.3 - 3.6V
- 104 MHz max. frequency
- supports JEDEC Standard Manufacturer and Device ID Read Methodology
Disadvantage of all of the above is that they seem to need far more than 2.0V to operate (bad for a battery sensor).
I think the AT25DF512C is best for the job but unfortunately I couldn't find a distributor in Europe. Digikey and Mouser (only places I know where to get it) do bill you $20 for shipping to Europe which I would like to avoid. :)
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@Gulpman @hek
Hello everybody,
I just added a pullrequest which will support SST25 Series flash for OTA Bootloader:
https://github.com/mysensors/Arduino/pull/445SST25 Series flash mentioned by Gulpman as 1st and 2nd Alternative are currently not supported, because the dont support pagewriting with opcode 0x02. Instead they support Automatic Address Increment Word writing (opcode 0xAD). I updated teh SPIFlash.cpp and .h so they will take care of that if #define MY_SPIFLASH_SST25TYPE is set somewhere.
I tested with this SPI Flash: http://www.reichelt.de/25PF020B80-4C-S/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTICLE=137365&artnr=25PF020B80-4C-S&SEARCH=25pf020b80 which is of Type SST25PF020B-80-4C-SAE (2MBit) and working now.I only hat a short look at the ISSI and Winbond flash Datasheets mentioned by Gulpman before. At first look I think they both could work with the current Mysensors / SPIFlash Version becuase they support Pagewriting with opcode 0x02 and seem to implement the other relevant opcodes. However I did not test..!
Best Regards
DirkH / D-H-R :)-edited on 2016-06-01 to take care of changed Name for define (added "MY_")
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@tbowmo
I tested the complete chain with SST25. I.e. I prepared two sketches and uploaded them via OTA with MYSController and checked that the sketch changed via presentation Message.Dual Optiboot does not need modification because AFAIK it only reads from Flash, which works the same way for SST and other Flash Types.
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I am new in this thread. But I think it may be worth using spi jedec flash in my latest hardware projects (insertable socket and insertable switch). So it will key to the future :)
What about atmel AT26DF series(4/8mb)? It's compartible with AT25DF series pin to pin. -
I think that DualOptiboot is writing to the external flash, after a successful upgrade of the internal flash, as it tries to delete the image stored there.
But I haven't looked that much into the design of dualoptiboot.. Just forked it, and adjusted bits here and there, to be suitable for the sensebender :) So I don't know what commands it uses to erase the data.
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@tbowmo
I looked at the defines inside the DualOptibootloader, I truly hope that there is no "hardcoded" opcode hidden somewhere... Assuming this, dualoptiboot does not write to the SPIFlash. It does erase, however thats not writing in this scope ;)#define SPIFLASH_STATUSWRITE 0x01 // write status register #define SPIFLASH_STATUSREAD 0x05 // read status register #define SPIFLASH_WRITEENABLE 0x06 // write enable #define SPIFLASH_ARRAYREADLOWFREQ 0x03 // read array (low frequency) #define SPIFLASH_BLOCKERASE_32K 0x52 // erase one 32K block of flash memory #define SPIFLASH_BLOCKERASE_64K 0xD8 // erase one 32K block of flash memory #define SPIFLASH_JEDECID 0x9F // read JEDEC ID@Koresh please post a link to the datasheet. You can also check on your own: check if your spi-flash supports all commands listed in the SPIFlash.h defines. Of cause obvious things such as pinning and supply voltage range must also be checked.
A caveeat I fell into, was that opcode 0x02 supports byte and pageprogramming for some SPI-Flash types but not for all (e.g. SST25 does not support pageprogramming but therefore has the AAI Wordprogramming feature).
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interesting..on my side I like the AT25DF512 for its voltage range 1.65v min and its low power mode 0.2uA in deepest mode. better for low power batt nodes I think..too bad there is not something like this in i2c format but I guess these flash types prefer faster spi transfer..
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Yes the AT25DF512 seems to outperform other memories and is truly a good chip. However unfortunately its hard to get in Germany (and maybe other parts of the world ;) ). The common distributors here do not have it in stock...
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@AWI
The AT25F512 (from Atmel?) is quiet different from the Adesto AT25DF512. As far as I can see the Atmel one seems not to have a Block erase command (32k/64k), which is used in MySensor AND in Bootloader code.If I'm not wrong with that assumption (and I dont think I am), I would NOT recommend to use the Atmel AT25F512.To all: please provide links to the Datasheet if you expect help... Its tedious to search them every time. Gulpman did great preparation work in his post above.
Edit: Never mind what I said in this Post. I got confused with sectors pages and blocks :eyes: ... I'll write some more later.
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Hi I just wonder if this Spansion, S25FL208K0RMFI040 could be used?
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About the AT25F512N wich was proposed by @AWI: tbowmo was right, I got confused by Sector, Page and Block erase. Like tbowmo said atmel does call blocks sectors... The AT25F512 does not support Block Erase 64k, which is defined but AFAIK not used in SPIFlash.cpp BUT it is used in the Bootloader if the "Imagesize" is > 32k. But I dont know how Image size is retrieved. Also I think for an ATMega 328p the image size should never be >32k. So this Flashtype could probably work as long as the image size is below 32k. I'd expect the Bootloader to crash or fail when program size is >32k.
About the S25FL... @bjacobse proposed I see the problem that it does not support the Bock Erase 32k opcode which is used in SPIFlash.cpp and Bootloader. Both must be changed when S25FL... should be used. (I would emulate the 32k Block erase by 8 times 4k Block erase.) However remember that Dualoptiboot must also be altered which requires "non-arduino" programming and some work / knowlegde about makefiles / compiler/linker settings in IDE.
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About the AT25F512N wich was proposed by @AWI: tbowmo was right, I got confused by Sector, Page and Block erase. Like tbowmo said atmel does call blocks sectors... The AT25F512 does not support Block Erase 64k, which is defined but AFAIK not used in SPIFlash.cpp BUT it is used in the Bootloader if the "Imagesize" is > 32k. But I dont know how Image size is retrieved. Also I think for an ATMega 328p the image size should never be >32k. So this Flashtype could probably work as long as the image size is below 32k. I'd expect the Bootloader to crash or fail when program size is >32k.
About the S25FL... @bjacobse proposed I see the problem that it does not support the Bock Erase 32k opcode which is used in SPIFlash.cpp and Bootloader. Both must be changed when S25FL... should be used. (I would emulate the 32k Block erase by 8 times 4k Block erase.) However remember that Dualoptiboot must also be altered which requires "non-arduino" programming and some work / knowlegde about makefiles / compiler/linker settings in IDE.
