nRF5 action!

[NeverDie]

@nagelc If you do manage to get it working, I'd be curious as to what kind of range you get out of it a compared to other modules. The antenna pattern looks a bit different.

[NeverDie]

@nagelc It's a shot in the dark, but maybe you want to check the schematic for any differences with other modules that you've previously programmed successfully. Either it's a dud, or it must be that.

[Nca78]

@nagelc said in nRF5 action!:

I received a few of the Minew MS50SFB modules. They appear to need unlocking similar to the E73 modules. I have tried using instructions as for E73, but no luck so far with either
gdb
https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/9266/guide-nrf5-nrf51-nrf52-for-beginners/54?_=1598203470928
acts like it is working, but doesn't really unlock the module.

or J-link
https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/9266/guide-nrf5-nrf51-nrf52-for-beginners/33?_=1598203470928
returns error from nrfjprob. In J-Link application can not connect

Did you try with nRFgo Studio ? I use that with NRF52 DK and it's simple. But I've not tried those modules though.

[Jokgi]

@Nca78 nRFgo Studio has been put to sleep. nRFgo studio does not have support for the newer Nordic devices. nRFconnect for Desktop has taken its place. I suggest when using the nRF52-DK (or any nRF52 based DK) that this newer utility be used.

[Nca78]

@Jokgi said in nRF5 action!:

@Nca78 nRFgo Studio has been put to sleep. nRFgo studio does not have support for the newer Nordic devices. nRFconnect for Desktop has taken its place. I suggest when using the nRF52-DK (or any nRF52 based DK) that this newer utility be used.

Thank you I updated !

[Jokgi]

@Nca78 I suggest downloading the "command line tools" as well.
https://www.nordicsemi.com/Software-and-tools/Development-Tools/nRF-Command-Line-Tools.

[nagelc]

@NeverDie
It isn't very scientific, but I think the range is roughly equivalent to a BT832. I can reach my gateway from everywhere in my house except the far corner of the basement, same as the BT. That corner is behind a chimney an lots of plumbing -- RFM69 territory. Maybe the BT832F would work there. Haven't tried those.
After fixing a missing trace on my dev board (my fault, not Oshpark's), and updating my J-link and bmp software. I am able to program these.

I popped the shield off of one just to confirm I ordered the right version. The part numbering vs processor is not very clear on Aliexpress. No surprises there.

[NeverDie]

A Version 2 of the micro:bit is due to be released this month: https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/bus-systems-sbcs/microbit-version-2-educational-computer-now-runs-ai-gets-loudspeaker-2020-10/

It's based around the 64Mhz, 128Kbyte RAM nRF52833: https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wireless/nRF52833

Version 2 will include a speaker and a microphone and will apparently make use of bluetooth for wireless communication. The EW article also says it will support a "microbit-radio protocol". Also, the EW article says that Javascript will run on it.

By itself it's not that interesting, but for someone looking to get started, it's another way in.

[Nca78]

@NeverDie said in nRF5 action!:

A Version 2 of the micro:bit is due to be released this month: https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/bus-systems-sbcs/microbit-version-2-educational-computer-now-runs-ai-gets-loudspeaker-2020-10/

It's based around the 64Mhz, 128Kbyte RAM nRF52833: https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wireless/nRF52833

Version 2 will include a speaker and a microphone and will apparently make use of bluetooth for wireless communication. The EW article also says it will support a "microbit-radio protocol". Also, the EW article says that Javascript will run on it.

By itself it's not that interesting, but for someone looking to get started, it's another way in.

No revolution on the radio sidde, bluetooth and microbit-radio were already here in first version of micro:bit. But use of speaker and microphone in addition to much larger memory is quite nice for students learning with it, it will open a lot of possibilities. Open source schematic and programs can also be a great base to make open source sound-related sensors and actuators compatible with MySensors.

[ncollins]

Before exploring compatibility, I ordered a few nRF52805 modules from Ebyte, but I'm still waiting on delivery https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001709688444.html

Any way to know if NRF52805s are compatible with the current core, sandeepmistry/arduino-nrf5? With MySensors?
https://infocenter.nordicsemi.com/topic/struct_nrf52/struct/nrf52.html?cp=4l

What is the hypothetical process of adding a new NRF52 variant? Where would I start?

[NeverDie]

@ncollins The sandeepmitry library has incomplete coverage, but what it does provide is access to the nRF5 registers. From there you can do whatever it is that you want to do by manipulating the registers directly. That makes it closer to assembly language, at least in thought process, than the confortable arduino library support you may be accustomed to.
I haven't tracked the arduino or adafruit implementations. Maybe by now they have better library support? Alternatively, mbed and sager and probably others have their own library support for it, so there's always that which you can look into. Come to think of it, IIRC, Arduino simply adopted the mbed platform for the nRF52 rather than roll their own, which was a rather unusual move. That may mean it may never be completely "arduino" in the same way other arduino platforms are.

[ncollins]

@NeverDie I see.

Say the Arduino mbed route supports my nRF module, would MySensors library need to be rewritten? Any idea how coupled it is to the sandeepmistry core?

[monte]

@ncollins said in nRF5 action!:

would MySensors library need to be rewritten?

Yes.
mbed is RTOS, sandeepmistry's core runs on bare metal instead.

[ncollins]

@monte thanks

I'm struggling with choosing the direction of the next steps in my diy sensor journey.

My focus has moved exclusively to nRF5 boards given the compact size, performance, and cost. I don't have range, penetration, or interference concerns, so I don't utilize any of the LoRa support in MySensors.

Given the ubiquitous support of BLE, recent advancements in mesh and long range capabilities, continued investment, widespread adoption...it might make more sense for someone with my use case to explore moving to a BLE based network.

I'm assuming there isn't much to gain by layering MySensors on top of BLE. And I'm not sure it makes sense for the MySensors community to expand and maintain support for boards capable of MySensors use, but primarily intended for BLE use. Especially, considering a significant majority of the community is completely satisfied with ATMEGA + (NRF24 / LoRa).

[NeverDie]

@ncollins If you have the gumption to do it, it might open up some interesting new possibilities. In the past programming bluetooth was a bit daunting, but it seems like some of the newer tools may be easier to learn: e.g. https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-the-adafruit-nrf52840-feather/bluefruit-nrf52-api

[ncollins]

@NeverDie said in nRF5 action!:

https://learn.adafruit.com/introducing-the-adafruit-nrf52840-feather/bluefruit-nrf52-api

Ha, I ordered one yesterday. I'll mess around and report back.

[Charall]

Where to start?

[nagelc]

@Charall For MySensors NRF5, start with these:

https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/6705/mysensors-nrf5-platform
https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/9266/guide-nrf5-nrf51-nrf52-for-beginners

[ncollins]

Just started testing my new NRF52805 breakout board. I added a new generic variant to sandeepmistry/arduino-nRF5, added a new board to mysensors nRF5, now I'm testing compatibility.

This new NRF52805 chip is interesting. Way stripped down compared to the rest of the NRF5 line. No PWM, no LPCOMP, only 10 GPIO (maybe 8 usable).

But, it's cheap, ~$2.50 for the EBYTE BT104-BT5005 module, compact, and appropriate for most low-power use cases.

Interestingly, the chip does not support the current MySensors default, but deprecated, data rate of 250Kbps. Today I also learned that modules can only communicate on the same data rate. So I created a ESP8266 + NRF24L01+ gateway at MY_RF24_DATARATE RF24_1MBPS, and it worked!

Still need to test a few things:

• I2C
• SPI
• Power consumption

If all goes well, I'll submit the merge requests and publish this board schematic on openhardware sometime in the next week.

[ncollins]

@NeverDie I spent the last week really deep diving into NRF BLE & NRF networking capabilities.

Some things I learned:

• BLE is a great way for low power communication with a dedicated, physically close parent node
• BLE alone does not establish a network, just a link to a central/gateway node. Giving the limited range, that means having multiple gateways, and dedicated links (painful, inflexible)
• That led to the creation of BLE Mesh. I found this article from Integra Sources to be really helpful as they talk through the real world limitations they experienced trying to go to production with it. In summary, BLE Mesh is a "managed flood" which quickly leads to network storms if not optimized
• Then I found OpenThread
  
• After messing around for few days, I found this guide https://github.com/kyberpunk/openthread which really simplifies getting started. Two docker containers: OpenThread Border Router (sensor network gateway) and MQTT-SN (UDP6 MQTT bridge to MQTT Broker). I was able to setup a network with two NRF52840 dongles + NRF52840 DK, and post messages to my MQTT instance within a couple of hours.

OpenThread is supported on the the NRF52840, NRF52811, NRF52833, as well as 10-15 chips from other vendors.

I really like the ability to route via IP and the fact that all of the nodes communicate with common, well known protocols. I like the secure-by-default approach, and the built in tools for administering networks (commissioning new nodes).

I'm going to keep exploring this route, seems promising....