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My 1AA battery sensor

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  • tbowmoT Offline
    tbowmoT Offline
    tbowmo
    Admin
    wrote on last edited by tbowmo
    #11

    @klim

    As the stepup converter functions, by chopping the supply up with a squarewave (in the order of 100-400kHz) it will not be a dc current. It will be more like an AC current

    see comment below.

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    • klimK Offline
      klimK Offline
      klim
      wrote on last edited by
      #12

      Thanks a lot for clarifying, i didn't thought about that before. This means the power consumption is not as good as it seems.

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      • tbowmoT Offline
        tbowmoT Offline
        tbowmo
        Admin
        wrote on last edited by
        #13

        Tried to search google to back up my theory, but I failed at it :sa:

        So I turned to a group of fellow electronic nerds, asking them how to measure things.. The conclusion from their responses is:

        Use DC current measurement, if your multimeter is good at averaging things. Otherwise, use a oscilloscope with a series resistor, and use integral maths to calculate the real current usage..

        So I was wrong in my assumptions.. Sorry :)

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        • klimK Offline
          klimK Offline
          klim
          wrote on last edited by
          #14

          Thanks for your info. That was my toughts too, to use an oscilloscope and integrating the current over time, but first i need a good digital oscilloscope to do that.

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          • T Offline
            T Offline
            therik
            wrote on last edited by
            #15

            This was also my method (using an oscilloscope to integrate the current), but...I found it difficult to measure the very low currents...µA range with an oscilloscope (these are very high quality Tectronics units, we have many at work, but there is some DC offset even though I calibrated the probe, yada yada yada). So, on some more recent measurements I used a Keithley bench multimeter with averaging. I guess the final test is to see how long the batteries (or battery) actually last.

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            • klimK Offline
              klimK Offline
              klim
              wrote on last edited by klim
              #16

              I know about the problems and accuracy for very low current measurements without special instruments. Therefore i want to buy a µCurrent Gold adapter soon, it is a very cost effective way to measure very low currents. This adapter with the combination of a digital oscilloscope with math is what we need here. But at the end as therik already said: the final test is to see how long the battery actually last

              tbowmoT 1 Reply Last reply
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              • klimK klim

                I know about the problems and accuracy for very low current measurements without special instruments. Therefore i want to buy a µCurrent Gold adapter soon, it is a very cost effective way to measure very low currents. This adapter with the combination of a digital oscilloscope with math is what we need here. But at the end as therik already said: the final test is to see how long the battery actually last

                tbowmoT Offline
                tbowmoT Offline
                tbowmo
                Admin
                wrote on last edited by
                #17

                @klim said:

                the final test is to see how long the battery actually last

                Only problem is, that this is going to take a very long time to check..

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                • klimK Offline
                  klimK Offline
                  klim
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #18

                  That's the reason, we must use instruments and methods to give predictions, instead of waiting for real results ;-)

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                  • T Offline
                    T Offline
                    therik
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #19

                    The longer it takes to find out, the better, right? ;)

                    RJ_MakeR 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • T therik

                      The longer it takes to find out, the better, right? ;)

                      RJ_MakeR Offline
                      RJ_MakeR Offline
                      RJ_Make
                      Hero Member
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #20

                      @therik Yes, but then any corrections also take longer to test.. :-)

                      RJ_Make

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                      • T Offline
                        T Offline
                        that0n3guy
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #21

                        Well, if its pulling ~1mA, then it should only last about a month or two. (right?)

                        You could also pull battery voltages to see the battery "level" as well.

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                        • klimK klim

                          Hi, i want to present you my working but not really sexy looking single cell AA battery sensor. It is as it is - under development and was just made to get some experience about power consumption and physical size.
                          I thought a lot about the type of battery to choose, but at the end i desisted to use an ordinary AA cell. I know about the advantages and disadvantages of different battery chemistry and types, but in the aspect of price/mA the AA battery is still the winner. Self discharge of a few years is acceptable for that type of battery.
                          Another aspect i followed is, just to use buy-able and assembled modules, as i don't have enough time to build my own arduino board, or battery management (step up), etc. .....

                          The core of the sensor is the battery itself. The components are mounted around the battery. The sensor can be completely disassembled in a few seconds, as the modules are just connected with pin headers.
                          The power consumption for sleep is around 90µA, if i can believe my Fluke 175. The power consumption of normal operation and transmit i don't post here, because of two reasons:

                          1. I was not able to get a good measurement result with a multimeter. I should integrate the consumption over time to get a real result.
                          2. The lifetime of a sensor is dominated by the sleep consumption, not by the operating consumption (if transmission time is just a few times per hour)

                          There are still some improvements to do, but ehh, this is just a prototype.

                          Used components:
                          -Arduino pro mini 3.3V @ 8Mhz (mcu board)
                          -NRF24L01 (wireless board)
                          -3.3V StepUp (0.8V-3.3V from Canton electronic an ebay product link)

                          Modifications:
                          -Arduino board: Cut LED
                          -Arduino board: Cut LDO
                          -StepUp board: Cut LED

                          Physical dimensions (without pin headers):
                          65mm x 22mm x 25mm

                          Which values the sensor can send?
                          In general this is just a battery monitor, as i want to get some experience of power consumption, but the pin header is able to work with various types of sensors. I use a simple DS18B20 temperature sensor on the header pins.

                          Here are some pictures:

                          Overall view1
                          upload-55448569-77ab-4346-80ce-0fbb859991ea

                          Overall view2
                          upload-47cc27d8-c72c-47f6-8219-ed2668202c61

                          Overall view3
                          upload-ec04de50-8172-4891-914f-413dafa86824

                          Overall view4
                          upload-10334a15-91fb-4171-bda9-92e976e95de7

                          Unused space over battery, but i didn't had the correct pin headers at home "mea culpa"
                          upload-3e47d133-e3e2-46e0-8fc1-c3d667439ece

                          Disassembled view1
                          upload-fce77d46-7b45-4388-920d-f74055c0a75e

                          Disassembled view2
                          upload-6278a2b6-a1ce-41a1-a788-146209c0ab04

                          Assemble view1
                          upload-aba7428f-b2b4-40c3-a727-c4923e15f347

                          Assemble view2
                          upload-46644d8c-9537-431b-8bc2-eeaace130e79

                          Assemble view3
                          upload-2dd25b83-45e6-4861-9934-9fb3288185ef

                          Assemble view4
                          upload-d954cb15-453d-4817-bc0c-cb589acdf69d

                          Assemble view5
                          upload-ea78b989-eeb8-4d9d-be4d-846bf6b3e8d1

                          Bottom view (remember - just a prototype)
                          upload-62b434cd-c8d5-48dd-b959-d897f8de4224

                          I hope i could give you some potential ideas for your own project.
                          Questions, suggestions, feedback, all is welcome.

                          TotcheT Offline
                          TotcheT Offline
                          Totche
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #22

                          @klim Nice integration.

                          Do you have a schematic of your board ?
                          especially for the pins with the jumper.

                          As I can see, the blue jumper is for open/closed current loop, but for the other pins ?

                          Thanks

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                          • jsiddallJ Offline
                            jsiddallJ Offline
                            jsiddall
                            Plugin Developer
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #23

                            Looks like it has been a year or two now. Is it still going on the original battery?

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