Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?
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I think it would be good to track users posts and then see when they stop posting to the forum.
From my personal experience, it will be failure and frustration that gets people down. They arrive at this site and it all looks really good.....until you come to try it and then you discover a whole nets of vipers just waiting.
I have hit brick walls in the past and given up to concentrate on project with a higher chance of success. I still come back and ech time get stuck again.
Most recently I wanted a temp sensor that sent temp every 2 mins and battery level every 1/2 hour. It didn't work and none of the helpful suggestions could make it work. So it's all sat there disconnected until I see a solution to the problem.
I also use MyController and have issuse with suddenly loosing all sensors except those internal to the pi. The MYSGW still gets data. At the moment I have nrf attached directly to the pi. The MyC team suggest adding an arduino and running it differently to solve the issue.
What would be aHuge improvement would be a traffic light system where each of the 'build' pages shows if it all works as expected under the current releases.
Green = all working as it should, Amber = minor problems but OK for most and Red = Stop, don't even bother just yet.Just my experience/
@skywatch said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
I think it would be good to track users posts and then see when they stop posting to the forum.
From my personal experience, it will be failure and frustration that gets people down. They arrive at this site and it all looks really good.....until you come to try it and then you discover a whole nets of vipers just waiting.
I have hit brick walls in the past and given up to concentrate on project with a higher chance of success. I still come back and ech time get stuck again.
Most recently I wanted a temp sensor that sent temp every 2 mins and battery level every 1/2 hour. It didn't work and none of the helpful suggestions could make it work. So it's all sat there disconnected until I see a solution to the problem.
I also use MyController and have issuse with suddenly loosing all sensors except those internal to the pi. The MYSGW still gets data. At the moment I have nrf attached directly to the pi. The MyC team suggest adding an arduino and running it differently to solve the issue.
What would be aHuge improvement would be a traffic light system where each of the 'build' pages shows if it all works as expected under the current releases.
Green = all working as it should, Amber = minor problems but OK for most and Red = Stop, don't even bother just yet.Just my experience/
These are good suggestions. I think also that standardizing on one set of stackable shields (like @nca78 has) would be a good way to build reliability and for beginners to avoid frustration. Once you have something working, it's easier to branch out from there than it is to start from scratch with seemingly nothing working. Just generally true, not specific to mysensors.
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I agree on the general idea the problem I see is that there will be a lot of custom solutions that would not fit for the shields: like the wemos shields they are easy to use but build volume is huge.
@gohan said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
I agree on the general idea the problem I see is that there will be a lot of custom solutions that would not fit for the shields: like the wemos shields they are easy to use but build volume is huge.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. @Nca78 's collection is a pretty good starter kit. It also makes the wiring a "no brainer" because it's all done for you on the PCB's. Like I say, if you want to branch out from there, you can, but with the benefit of starting with a beginner platform that's already vetted and working.
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Anyone else notice what seems like a significant decline in new postings on various home automation internet forums? I mean: mysensors, lowpowerlab, cocoontech, .... The rate of new postings seems much less than in prior years. Is that because people have found other solutions elsewhere, or interest has declined, or almost everything that can be said has already been said, or people are frustrated and given up, or.....? I had thought that with all the hype surrounding internet of things, there would have been an increase in postings, not a decline. Any theories?
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@NeverDie I would tend to suspect there is already a treasure trove in all the fora for folks to dig into, which saves answering repetitive questions, hence reduced postings....
@zboblamont said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
@NeverDie I would tend to suspect there is already a treasure trove in all the fora for folks to dig into, which saves answering repetitive questions, hence reduced postings....
If that's the case why is skywatch having so much trouble?
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I have to agree with @skywatch and a few others here, MySensors is relatively easy to start with using the documentation, you wire your pro mini & radio for gateway and sensor and you're running your first sensor in no time.
But as soon as you want to make things a bit more advanced, you face a lot of challenges that the doc on the website and suggested components make harder to solve :- PA/LNA radio that fail, need wrapping in foil to have decent performance etc etc I'm pretty sure this is the most frequent cause of failure for MySensors network.
- examples with DHT sensors that are not convenient for battery usage => use of step up converters that create a whole set of new problems and unreliability
- PIR example with SR501 that runs at 5V so you need to alter them to run at lower voltage (3.3V) that's still not so convenient and they become unstable (triggered by radio tx/rx)
I'll make a list of suggestions to improve the docs, it will probably include writing a few more examples also, and some tutorials for a few things that are easy in fact easy to do but can seem hard from the outside like flashing bootloader on a pro mini or OTA update.
Currently I have restarted to test my NModule "shields", I will improve and/or fix them and probably convert the most useful ones to MySX Connector.
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@zboblamont said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
@NeverDie I would tend to suspect there is already a treasure trove in all the fora for folks to dig into, which saves answering repetitive questions, hence reduced postings....
If that's the case why is skywatch having so much trouble?
@NeverDie I was answering the original post on potential reasons, not addressing specific complaints.
Whatever improvements can be brought to the forum will be undoubtedly be welcomed, but as a beginner on this hobby I have fumbled my way around and gleaned considerable help getting started just searching on the site. I would hazard a guess that many others are floating around without taking part in discussions.... It's not as if folks aren't generally friendly and helpful...
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I have to agree with @skywatch and a few others here, MySensors is relatively easy to start with using the documentation, you wire your pro mini & radio for gateway and sensor and you're running your first sensor in no time.
But as soon as you want to make things a bit more advanced, you face a lot of challenges that the doc on the website and suggested components make harder to solve :- PA/LNA radio that fail, need wrapping in foil to have decent performance etc etc I'm pretty sure this is the most frequent cause of failure for MySensors network.
- examples with DHT sensors that are not convenient for battery usage => use of step up converters that create a whole set of new problems and unreliability
- PIR example with SR501 that runs at 5V so you need to alter them to run at lower voltage (3.3V) that's still not so convenient and they become unstable (triggered by radio tx/rx)
I'll make a list of suggestions to improve the docs, it will probably include writing a few more examples also, and some tutorials for a few things that are easy in fact easy to do but can seem hard from the outside like flashing bootloader on a pro mini or OTA update.
Currently I have restarted to test my NModule "shields", I will improve and/or fix them and probably convert the most useful ones to MySX Connector.
I agree that frustration must be the cause of people leaving. One must know to filter and decipher the info in the forums, as initial (obsolete) recommendations on using step up converters and builds are there, for example. Old people accomplished things, and stepped the next level, but the library and tools evolved so the way of making things also changed.
And documentation does not help at all.@Nca78 in fact, didn't know anything about wrapping the antenna!?
Still don't know if it is failing. And It's using a step... Down converter. 😅 -
I think frustration is probably a factor. Some parts of home automation can be quite difficult.
Just look at the "safe-in-wall-ac-to-dc-transformers" thread for an example. You really need to understand this to make a safe in wall switch to control your lights. Another difficult area is presence detection. Motion sensors and door switches can only get you so far.
I suspect many people get past the excitement of building their first sensors and find controlling things more difficult than they want to attempt. Then they end up buying something like a Phillips Hue or giving up all together.PS: The first circuit board I designed is a temperature sensor with NRF24 from directions on this site. Now running over 2 years on a set of AA batteries. I feel a little proud of that one every time I see it still reporting it's temperature in Domoticz.
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I think frustration is probably a factor. Some parts of home automation can be quite difficult.
Just look at the "safe-in-wall-ac-to-dc-transformers" thread for an example. You really need to understand this to make a safe in wall switch to control your lights. Another difficult area is presence detection. Motion sensors and door switches can only get you so far.
I suspect many people get past the excitement of building their first sensors and find controlling things more difficult than they want to attempt. Then they end up buying something like a Phillips Hue or giving up all together.PS: The first circuit board I designed is a temperature sensor with NRF24 from directions on this site. Now running over 2 years on a set of AA batteries. I feel a little proud of that one every time I see it still reporting it's temperature in Domoticz.
@nagelc If there is any frustration leading to folks abandoning DIY in favour of commercial offerings I suggest they would have favoured that route to begin with.
For somebody starting out on this DIY hobby the learning curve can be daunting, the technicalities and terminology may be comfortable for those with experience, it is easy to forget that the learner is essentially trying to decode hieroglyphics in the dark by dim candlelight, ie even the most basic explanations can prove challenging to begin with.
The problem for any forum will be the level at which the information is pitched, as it has to accommodate so many levels of expertise... -
Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors. I'm using ms for the more complex and custom applications I have in mind.
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I am also keeping an eye on the xiaomi sensors as in fact they are cheap and better looking than anything you could make on your own. I am still wondering about their reliability and also I don't like a lot the gateway that connects directly to a wall plug.
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I am also keeping an eye on the xiaomi sensors as in fact they are cheap and better looking than anything you could make on your own. I am still wondering about their reliability and also I don't like a lot the gateway that connects directly to a wall plug.
@gohan I don't use their gateway as it's a bit clunky although it does have local control. Like many I use a Samsung smartthings hub which doesn't cost much more as it's often heavily discounted - pairing with the ST hub can be hit or miss though.
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Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors. I'm using ms for the more complex and custom applications I have in mind.
@gadgetman said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors.
First I've heard of it. Any links?
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@gadgetman said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors.
First I've heard of it. Any links?
@NeverDie Just do a search on sites like gearbest.com or Banggood.com for Xiaomi smart home. The common sensors go on sale fairly often but they're usually less than $10 a pop.
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@gohan I don't use their gateway as it's a bit clunky although it does have local control. Like many I use a Samsung smartthings hub which doesn't cost much more as it's often heavily discounted - pairing with the ST hub can be hit or miss though.
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@gadgetman are you saying there is no guarantee to have the xiaomi sensors working on the ST hub?
@gohan Not at all. It's just that the pairing process has a manual element (as opposed to being capable of being auto discovered) to it as it's not officially supported by ST. Community members have developed device drivers for the window, temp, PIR and pushbutton switches. Although I had a few issues trying to settle on the right zigbee frequency (2.4Ghz so susceptible to interference from wifi sources), once that was sorted everything is working great.
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Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors. I'm using ms for the more complex and custom applications I have in mind.
@gadgetman said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors.
@Nca78 Found some inexpensive yet attractive project boxes that you can put your sensors inside. Looks quite nice!
https://www.openhardware.io/view/411/BlackCircle-Sensor-High-WAF-TempHum-sensor -
I agree with @gadgetman , it's easier&quicker to get started for "HA noobs" or those who don't want to spend too much time in hardware.
I thought about trying xia**i devices too. But I have no use, I have enough boards for my needs :grin:
That said, i've not been tempted because, and that's important for me:
- I want to fully control my HA, and it's also easier if use 1 or 2 protocols instead of many
- so I can debug inside
- and I don't need to wait for an API update
- and I can also fix a faulty hw as I've fun making my hw. But this is not the most valuable argument here, I agree, regarding such a cheap and simple sensor.
1 to 3 : solved by using a great and secure opensource lib... MySensors :)
But if i can make my devices looking great with 3d printer and a few tricks to improve look, more features or sensors, smaller, and the final cost not more than twice the price of a xia**i, . I'm happy to forget counting my time lol. But we're getting in connoisseur field I agree
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Ikea is also producing zigbee-compatible smart home components (TRÅDFRI series), including led lighting, dimmers, PIRs, ethernet gateways without cloud-based parts (can work w/o internet).
Starting from $11-$19 for dimmers/PIRs here in Poland.
