Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?

[ripperle]

@gmccarthy said in Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?:

@ripperle I gave up with them and used a nodemcu with a esp8266 wifi module. Have been running without a hitch for months now.

My sensors are battery powered (I also did many test with stable power supplys and had the same connection problems after a few days or weeks...)

@Nca78 said in Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?:

@ripperle said in Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?:

Sometimes they are running for weeks and then stop working for a day or so and then start working again.

Has somebody the same experience?

This is a radio link quality problem.
Replace your gateway radio with this PA/LNA module from CDEbyte, make sure script is compiled with #define MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL RF24_PA_MAX and it should solve your problems, it has worked for anyone else who tried.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/E01-ML01DP5-Ebyte-2-4GHz-20dBm-2100m-nRF24L01-SPI-Wireless-transceiver-module/32638720689.html

I already upgraded the gateway with a PA/LNA
But not with the MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL RF24_PA_MAX option... Although I ordered 2 PA/LNA transmitter from CDEByte... Let see if it works...

By the way, my bathroom sensor (staple power supply, no battery 1 room away from gateway) stopped working a few days ago after many weeks without any problems... Yesterday it come back to life by itself and works... SOOOOOO STRANGE...

I dont understand, why a sensor works for weeks or months without problems and then stop working for a day or 2...

Thanks for your advises...

[gohan]

It may also a be something else, why are you blaming only radio module? Have you tried changing to a very different channel than you are currently using?

[NeverDie]

Maybe try a watchdog?

[Nca78]

@ripperle said in Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?:

I dont understand, why a sensor works for weeks or months without problems and then stop working for a day or 2...

Thanks for your advises...

After x failed attempts to send messages MySensors will consider the radio link broken. Then when you will want to send a message it will need time to re-establish this link, and if your connection is not of good quality it takes some time, more than the time allowed in the settings to do that job. Then your node is invisible to the gateway.

[arraWX]

@Nca78 I am about to order a few of the suggested modules (PA/LNA module from CDEbyte) from aliexpress. My first deal ever on aliexpress. What about antenna? Will I have to order it separately?

[NeverDie]

@arraWX Which modules specifically?

[arraWX]

@NeverDie This one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/E01-ML01DP5-Ebyte-2-4GHz-20dBm-2100m-nRF24L01-SPI-Wireless-transceiver-module/32638720689.html

[NeverDie]

@arraWX My purchase for that didn't come with an antenna, whereas @Nca78 's did. So, don't count on it. I'm pretty sure they mean to charge extra for it.

[arraWX]

@NeverDie Thank you!

To me it seems as if it is not an option to order an antenna from CDEbyte through aliexpress.

Can I use any 2.4 GHz SMA antenna? Anything to be particularly aware of? Any suggestions?

[NeverDie]

@arraWX This will fit it:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-ESP8266-serial-WIFI-wireless-transceiver-module-MT7681-3DBI-gain-antenna/32223853645.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3qUb1A

It's already cheap, but maybe you can find it even cheaper without the cabling adapter part of it.

That said, I'm not at all sure the CDEbyte is any better than the cheaper alternative, which includes an antenna: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-Free-Shipping-Special-promotions-1100-meter-long-distance-NRF24L01-PA-LNA-wireless-modules-1100meters-with/1037554818.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3qUb1A

[rozpruwacz]

@ripperle in your sensor node, do you give time for link recovery in the case of link fail ?

[manutremo]

I went through a lot of problems when trying to build my network using the nrf24 modules. I jept using more and more powerful modules but never really managed to get a robust connection at all nodes.

The nrf24L01 do not provide signal level reporting capabilities, so it's not easy to imagine what's oging on when communication fails.

I finally understood by using the connection quality meter here. BY using I found that:

• Increasing the power is sometimes a problem instead of a solution, since the nrf24L01 tend to overload at some point.
• In my home there where "shadow" areas where the 2.4GHz simply didn't reach at a good enough level. I then checked the 2.4GHz signal from my router and found that it was also weak (not as weak as the nrf24L01, of course, but you could see the decrease).
• Isolating the nrf24L01 by wrapping them on a plastic film foil and then another later of tin foil helped a litlle.

From the results of my investigation I decided to move to using rfm69 modules, which have a better penetration power. They are working quite well, and certainly much better than the nrf24's.

Maybe in your case it might be worth using a similar tool to understand what is going on.

[Nca78]

@NeverDie said in Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?:

That said, I'm not at all sure the CDEbyte is any better than the cheaper alternative, which includes an antenna: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-Free-Shipping-Special-promotions-1100-meter-long-distance-NRF24L01-PA-LNA-wireless-modules-1100meters-with/1037554818.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3qUb1A

I never got good resuts with similar pa/lna modules. Some work, some don't, some do only after tinkering.
With the one from CDEByte it just gave instant coverage to all my nodes, no tinkering necessary and nothing like what @manutremo is describing above. My nodes which had problem to report from the other side of my appartment became 100% reliable.

[ahmedadelhosni]

@NeverDie @arraWX I ordered 10 from the buyer on ebay .. they sent me 2 free antennas.

[ahmedadelhosni]

@Nca78 So you are using nrf52 ebyte with antenna and you enable the pa/lna in the project ? Can you guide me to the code for this please ?

Thanks.

[Nca78]

@ahmedadelhosni said in Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?:

@Nca78 So you are using nrf52 ebyte with antenna and you enable the pa/lna in the project ? Can you guide me to the code for this please ?

Thanks.

Hello, to use pa/lna at maximum power in your, you need to put this line :

#define MY_RF24_PA_LEVEL (RF24_PA_MAX)

[ahmedadelhosni]

@nca78 Thanks.

so the same define for nrf24 works for nrf52 ?

[Nca78]

@ahmedadelhosni said in Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?:

@nca78 Thanks.

so the same define for nrf24 works for nrf52 ?

No, NRF24 is for NRF24. For NRF5 there are MY_NRF5_... defines.

/**
 * @def MY_NRF5_ESB_PA_LEVEL
 * @brief Default nRF5 PA level. Override in sketch if needed.
 *
 * - NRF5_PA_MIN = -40dBm
 * - NRF5_PA_LOW = -16dBm
 * - NRF5_PA_HIGH = 0dBm
 * - NRF5_PA_MAX = 4dBm
 */
#ifndef MY_NRF5_ESB_PA_LEVEL
#define MY_NRF5_ESB_PA_LEVEL (NRF5_PA_MAX)
#endif

[rozpruwacz]

@nca78 Yeah, it took me two days to realize that I forget to set this option ... Without this option the signal couldn't pass trough two walls, with it there is no problem :)

[ripperle]

@manutremo said in Alternatives for nRF24L01+ ?:

I went through a lot of problems when trying to build my network using the nrf24 modules. I jept using more and more powerful modules but never really managed to get a robust connection at all nodes.

The nrf24L01 do not provide signal level reporting capabilities, so it's not easy to imagine what's oging on when communication fails.

I finally understood by using the connection quality meter here. BY using I found that:

• Increasing the power is sometimes a problem instead of a solution, since the nrf24L01 tend to overload at some point.
• In my home there where "shadow" areas where the 2.4GHz simply didn't reach at a good enough level. I then checked the 2.4GHz signal from my router and found that it was also weak (not as weak as the nrf24L01, of course, but you could see the decrease).
• Isolating the nrf24L01 by wrapping them on a plastic film foil and then another later of tin foil helped a litlle.

From the results of my investigation I decided to move to using rfm69 modules, which have a better penetration power. They are working quite well, and certainly much better than the nrf24's.

Maybe in your case it might be worth using a similar tool to understand what is going on.

So I tested the new radio modules from Cde and of course the high power define in the code... I still have no stable network on all. Sensors! Sometimes a temperature sensor fail, sometimes a window sensor fail... Really annoying in winter when the heating control loop don't work...

I will buy the rfm69 modules and try this ones...