Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?
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@NeverDie I would tend to suspect there is already a treasure trove in all the fora for folks to dig into, which saves answering repetitive questions, hence reduced postings....
@zboblamont said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
@NeverDie I would tend to suspect there is already a treasure trove in all the fora for folks to dig into, which saves answering repetitive questions, hence reduced postings....
If that's the case why is skywatch having so much trouble?
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I have to agree with @skywatch and a few others here, MySensors is relatively easy to start with using the documentation, you wire your pro mini & radio for gateway and sensor and you're running your first sensor in no time.
But as soon as you want to make things a bit more advanced, you face a lot of challenges that the doc on the website and suggested components make harder to solve :- PA/LNA radio that fail, need wrapping in foil to have decent performance etc etc I'm pretty sure this is the most frequent cause of failure for MySensors network.
- examples with DHT sensors that are not convenient for battery usage => use of step up converters that create a whole set of new problems and unreliability
- PIR example with SR501 that runs at 5V so you need to alter them to run at lower voltage (3.3V) that's still not so convenient and they become unstable (triggered by radio tx/rx)
I'll make a list of suggestions to improve the docs, it will probably include writing a few more examples also, and some tutorials for a few things that are easy in fact easy to do but can seem hard from the outside like flashing bootloader on a pro mini or OTA update.
Currently I have restarted to test my NModule "shields", I will improve and/or fix them and probably convert the most useful ones to MySX Connector.
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@zboblamont said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
@NeverDie I would tend to suspect there is already a treasure trove in all the fora for folks to dig into, which saves answering repetitive questions, hence reduced postings....
If that's the case why is skywatch having so much trouble?
@NeverDie I was answering the original post on potential reasons, not addressing specific complaints.
Whatever improvements can be brought to the forum will be undoubtedly be welcomed, but as a beginner on this hobby I have fumbled my way around and gleaned considerable help getting started just searching on the site. I would hazard a guess that many others are floating around without taking part in discussions.... It's not as if folks aren't generally friendly and helpful...
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I have to agree with @skywatch and a few others here, MySensors is relatively easy to start with using the documentation, you wire your pro mini & radio for gateway and sensor and you're running your first sensor in no time.
But as soon as you want to make things a bit more advanced, you face a lot of challenges that the doc on the website and suggested components make harder to solve :- PA/LNA radio that fail, need wrapping in foil to have decent performance etc etc I'm pretty sure this is the most frequent cause of failure for MySensors network.
- examples with DHT sensors that are not convenient for battery usage => use of step up converters that create a whole set of new problems and unreliability
- PIR example with SR501 that runs at 5V so you need to alter them to run at lower voltage (3.3V) that's still not so convenient and they become unstable (triggered by radio tx/rx)
I'll make a list of suggestions to improve the docs, it will probably include writing a few more examples also, and some tutorials for a few things that are easy in fact easy to do but can seem hard from the outside like flashing bootloader on a pro mini or OTA update.
Currently I have restarted to test my NModule "shields", I will improve and/or fix them and probably convert the most useful ones to MySX Connector.
I agree that frustration must be the cause of people leaving. One must know to filter and decipher the info in the forums, as initial (obsolete) recommendations on using step up converters and builds are there, for example. Old people accomplished things, and stepped the next level, but the library and tools evolved so the way of making things also changed.
And documentation does not help at all.@Nca78 in fact, didn't know anything about wrapping the antenna!?
Still don't know if it is failing. And It's using a step... Down converter. 😅 -
I think frustration is probably a factor. Some parts of home automation can be quite difficult.
Just look at the "safe-in-wall-ac-to-dc-transformers" thread for an example. You really need to understand this to make a safe in wall switch to control your lights. Another difficult area is presence detection. Motion sensors and door switches can only get you so far.
I suspect many people get past the excitement of building their first sensors and find controlling things more difficult than they want to attempt. Then they end up buying something like a Phillips Hue or giving up all together.PS: The first circuit board I designed is a temperature sensor with NRF24 from directions on this site. Now running over 2 years on a set of AA batteries. I feel a little proud of that one every time I see it still reporting it's temperature in Domoticz.
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I think frustration is probably a factor. Some parts of home automation can be quite difficult.
Just look at the "safe-in-wall-ac-to-dc-transformers" thread for an example. You really need to understand this to make a safe in wall switch to control your lights. Another difficult area is presence detection. Motion sensors and door switches can only get you so far.
I suspect many people get past the excitement of building their first sensors and find controlling things more difficult than they want to attempt. Then they end up buying something like a Phillips Hue or giving up all together.PS: The first circuit board I designed is a temperature sensor with NRF24 from directions on this site. Now running over 2 years on a set of AA batteries. I feel a little proud of that one every time I see it still reporting it's temperature in Domoticz.
@nagelc If there is any frustration leading to folks abandoning DIY in favour of commercial offerings I suggest they would have favoured that route to begin with.
For somebody starting out on this DIY hobby the learning curve can be daunting, the technicalities and terminology may be comfortable for those with experience, it is easy to forget that the learner is essentially trying to decode hieroglyphics in the dark by dim candlelight, ie even the most basic explanations can prove challenging to begin with.
The problem for any forum will be the level at which the information is pitched, as it has to accommodate so many levels of expertise... -
Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors. I'm using ms for the more complex and custom applications I have in mind.
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I am also keeping an eye on the xiaomi sensors as in fact they are cheap and better looking than anything you could make on your own. I am still wondering about their reliability and also I don't like a lot the gateway that connects directly to a wall plug.
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I am also keeping an eye on the xiaomi sensors as in fact they are cheap and better looking than anything you could make on your own. I am still wondering about their reliability and also I don't like a lot the gateway that connects directly to a wall plug.
@gohan I don't use their gateway as it's a bit clunky although it does have local control. Like many I use a Samsung smartthings hub which doesn't cost much more as it's often heavily discounted - pairing with the ST hub can be hit or miss though.
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Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors. I'm using ms for the more complex and custom applications I have in mind.
@gadgetman said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors.
First I've heard of it. Any links?
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@gadgetman said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors.
First I've heard of it. Any links?
@NeverDie Just do a search on sites like gearbest.com or Banggood.com for Xiaomi smart home. The common sensors go on sale fairly often but they're usually less than $10 a pop.
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@gohan I don't use their gateway as it's a bit clunky although it does have local control. Like many I use a Samsung smartthings hub which doesn't cost much more as it's often heavily discounted - pairing with the ST hub can be hit or miss though.
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@gadgetman are you saying there is no guarantee to have the xiaomi sensors working on the ST hub?
@gohan Not at all. It's just that the pairing process has a manual element (as opposed to being capable of being auto discovered) to it as it's not officially supported by ST. Community members have developed device drivers for the window, temp, PIR and pushbutton switches. Although I had a few issues trying to settle on the right zigbee frequency (2.4Ghz so susceptible to interference from wifi sources), once that was sorted everything is working great.
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Rise of cheap zigbee sensors from China is my take. I have a bunch of highly reliable magnetic reed sensors, push buttons, PIR, temp sensors that are smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors. I'm using ms for the more complex and custom applications I have in mind.
@gadgetman said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
smaller and better looking than anything I could make with mysensors.
@Nca78 Found some inexpensive yet attractive project boxes that you can put your sensors inside. Looks quite nice!
https://www.openhardware.io/view/411/BlackCircle-Sensor-High-WAF-TempHum-sensor -
I agree with @gadgetman , it's easier&quicker to get started for "HA noobs" or those who don't want to spend too much time in hardware.
I thought about trying xia**i devices too. But I have no use, I have enough boards for my needs :grin:
That said, i've not been tempted because, and that's important for me:
- I want to fully control my HA, and it's also easier if use 1 or 2 protocols instead of many
- so I can debug inside
- and I don't need to wait for an API update
- and I can also fix a faulty hw as I've fun making my hw. But this is not the most valuable argument here, I agree, regarding such a cheap and simple sensor.
1 to 3 : solved by using a great and secure opensource lib... MySensors :)
But if i can make my devices looking great with 3d printer and a few tricks to improve look, more features or sensors, smaller, and the final cost not more than twice the price of a xia**i, . I'm happy to forget counting my time lol. But we're getting in connoisseur field I agree
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Ikea is also producing zigbee-compatible smart home components (TRÅDFRI series), including led lighting, dimmers, PIRs, ethernet gateways without cloud-based parts (can work w/o internet).
Starting from $11-$19 for dimmers/PIRs here in Poland.
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"From my personal experience, it will be failure and frustration that gets people down. They arrive at this site and it all looks really good.....until you come to try it and then you discover a whole nets of vipers just waiting."
I've been thinking that it would be nice to create a spinoff website for MySensors that focuses on ease of use and tried-an-tested solutions. Plug n play.
For example, a beautiful site with a few home automation staples, and with the best sensors to use for that scenario, and upload-and-go code. Ideally people wouldn't need to solder anything.
Then that site could be used for workshops on DIY, cheap and privacy friendly home automation, for example in libraries.
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Not even all commercial product are tested, plug n play and easy to use. In the build section there are some ready solutions with code and suggested sensors to use.
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"From my personal experience, it will be failure and frustration that gets people down. They arrive at this site and it all looks really good.....until you come to try it and then you discover a whole nets of vipers just waiting."
I've been thinking that it would be nice to create a spinoff website for MySensors that focuses on ease of use and tried-an-tested solutions. Plug n play.
For example, a beautiful site with a few home automation staples, and with the best sensors to use for that scenario, and upload-and-go code. Ideally people wouldn't need to solder anything.
Then that site could be used for workshops on DIY, cheap and privacy friendly home automation, for example in libraries.
@alowhum said in Fewer home automation postings? What's behind it?:
"From my personal experience, it will be failure and frustration that gets people down. They arrive at this site and it all looks really good.....until you come to try it and then you discover a whole nets of vipers just waiting."
I've been thinking that it would be nice to create a spinoff website for MySensors that focuses on ease of use and tried-an-tested solutions. Plug n play.
For example, a beautiful site with a few home automation staples, and with the best sensors to use for that scenario, and upload-and-go code. Ideally people wouldn't need to solder anything.
Then that site could be used for workshops on DIY, cheap and privacy friendly home automation, for example in libraries.
that would just be reinventing the wheel, a no end wheel, imho.. Doesn't MySensors website already focus on these goals?
I think that would be better to improve what exists. If there are issues with some sketch, why not fix them?
About the 'whole net of vipers' someone mentioned..
Even if, in the best of world, people wouldn't need to solder anything nor programming, their device for 1buck (soon 'My HA for one buck' or better, 'My House for one buck' lol) I think they will always get some troubles if they don't read, learn etc..
Minimal skills and effort are needed. There are too much different hardware, setup etc to feed support for every case.
What I mean is you could try to build an alternative website for a some usecase, but you won't cover all newbie questions, else you would need to build another mysensors.org :)But why not, feel free to create a more friendly, bug-free, up-to-date website. In this case you're brave because there is the core team, admins, for this job, which knows well the lib (better for reliable docs and advices), or help us to improve what exists ;)
