💬 AC-DC double solid state relay module
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@Mercury69
See:AliexpressSorry these required a fuse holder
maybe this one ? Mouser.it
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Sorry the shop I bought mine from doesn't sell a single fuse anymore ...
I don't know if these fuses will fit on the board but they are the closest specced having some leads :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-pcs-lot-T250mA-250V-TE5-Slow-Blow-Subminiature-Fuse-UL-VDE-RoHS-Approved-250mA/32712347448.htmlI think it would be better for next revision of this board or future boards powered from main to use a fuse holder...
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Thank you to all for your rapid answer.
@Amster
I saw the fuse in Mouser website, I think the same one is the following:I also called they and they told me that only after I will put the order they check the real availability in the various site they have and if present they send me, but if not present I have to wait 10 Week as this is the Factory Lead Time.
And more of this the shipping will cost 20€, so a total of 39,80€ for 10 little fuse I think is too much.I think I will go for the one you suggest. It's cheap, with free shipping and it seems not to big to don't fit in the board.
Now I will have to wait about 1 month before all parts arrive, then I will let you know if fuse will fit or not.
Thank you again for your attention and a big hello from Italy.
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I bought here in Ukraine circular-shaped slow-blow fuses and soldered them almost normally (here is their datasheet http://www.rcscomponents.kiev.ua/datasheets/5rt.JPG), so far everything is ok.
And here is my board instance:
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Very nice project. I would like to have access to few more pins to add some functionality like motion sensor, and light sensor. Of course those would be outside of the wall
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@jendrush said:
Very nice project. I would like to have access to few more pins to add some functionality like motion sensor, and light sensor. Of course those would be outside of the wall
Hello, I would not advise to use this board with sensors accessible to fingers. The spacing between main voltage and low voltage traces is too narrow at some points on the board and a short circuit is possible. It is fine/safe to use only in a closed box or connected to wall switches as they are designed to be safe with main voltage.
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@Nca78 said:
Hello, I would not advise to use this board with sensors accessible to fingers. The spacing between main voltage and low voltage traces is too narrow at some points on the board and a short circuit is possible. It is fine/safe to use only in a closed box or connected to wall switches as they are designed to be safe with main voltage.
I think that woundn't be so risky becouse o think about mounting it not behind light buttons, but in this box just below ceiling(where wires crossing their paths), this box is placed more than 2 meters above floor level.
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@jendrush said:
I think that woundn't be so risky becouse o think about mounting it not behind light buttons, but in this box just below ceiling(where wires crossing their paths), this box is placed more than 2 meters above floor level.
Still a bit, no ?
Anyway if you have requirement for a board that would be both easy to solder and safe even outside of electrical box, can you send them to me by private message ? I'm working on such a board and I'm opened to any improvement ideas of use cases that would not be filled by currently available boards.
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@Nca78 said:
Anyway if you have requirement for a board that would be both easy to solder and safe even outside of electrical box, can you send them to me by private message ? I'm working on such a board and I'm opened to any improvement ideas of use cases that would not be filled by currently available boards.
I've just thought about little node that could be mounted in almost every room, and be barely visible. This box below ceiling is quite good place for this. I have plan to do something like dome(3d printed) instead of flat box cover to fit electronics there. As i told in previous messages i would like to have node that could turn on/off light, read temperature, movement, and light level by LDR.
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Hello.
I would like to ask whether it is normal that the switch does not work if the server domoticz off? I want to use the switch only crash server
now i cant
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@okos said:
Hello.
I would like to ask whether it is normal that the switch does not work if the server domoticz off? I want to use the switch only when I have a server crash and now does not work.That's a problem of MySensors, if you don't have physical switches connected directly on your node you are depending on a functionnal gateway/controller to run... That's why I'm going more toward the "upgraded" livolo-style wall switch now, even if the radio is down you can still maintain basic functionality of the switch. This board can do it but you need to have neutral wire in the switch box which I don't have
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@okos Unfortunately current mysensors version won't allow to 'boot' your code before their module connects to a controller. This is a main reason I moved to ESP8266 hardware.
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@mr_const said:
@okos Unfortunately current mysensors version won't allow to 'boot' your code before their module connects to a controller. This is a main reason I moved to ESP8266 hardware.
It does, you can put a before() method in your sketch.
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You can disable this behaviour by defining:
#define MY_TRANSPORT_DONT_CARE_MODE #define MY_PARENT_NODE_ID 0
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Thanx for the answers
This is not good news from the switch does not work without a server. Mr.const, Do you use esp8266 in domoticz to control the light?edit: hek, I not noticed your post.
What changes adding this?#define MY_TRANSPORT_DONT_CARE_MODE #define MY_PARENT_NODE_ID 0```
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@hek said:
You can disable this behaviour by defining:
#define MY_TRANSPORT_DONT_CARE_MODE #define MY_PARENT_NODE_ID 0This is a really good news, I'll give it a try to check if it works correctly with controller and when controller is lost.
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@hek said:
You can disable this behaviour by defining:
#define MY_TRANSPORT_DONT_CARE_MODE #define MY_PARENT_NODE_ID 0sorry for the ridiculous question but I have to enter into a sketch? or MyConfig.h?
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In the sketch before including MySensors.h
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@hek said:
You can disable this behaviour by defining:
#define MY_TRANSPORT_DONT_CARE_MODE #define MY_PARENT_NODE_ID 0Tried it. Doesn't work. Btw, I searched all mysensors sources (2.0) and didn't find any use of a
MY_TRANSPORT_DONT_CARE_MODEdefinition.
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@mr_const said:
MY_TRANSPORT_DONT_CARE_MODE
Sorry, yes, It's all in the development branch:
https://github.com/mysensors/MySensors/search?utf8=✓&q=MY_TRANSPORT_DONT_CARE_MODE
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It possible implement this option in mysensors 2.0 ?
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@okos it will be included in the next release yes.
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Hello.
I tried to upload my two boards ( arduino pro mini 8Mhz , 3,3 V ) modified sketches but returned to sketch Nca78 (with DS18B20), unfortunately, does not operate a physical switch. Sometimes phisical switch changes state in domoticz ( not every time ) but relays do not change state.
Switching on and switching off the lights of domoticz changes state relay without a problem.
What could be wrong ?
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Hi
Does somebody can post a picture of the back side please.
Thinks
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@ludoarchi ![alt text]
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@okos thinks !
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That's where the biggest problem is on this board. I think the previous revision without the DS18 is safer, here there is less than 2mm creepage/clearance between main and low voltage traces and solder points, not enough
There's also problem of mixing both main/low voltage everywhere in the board like near the NRF24.
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Hi
Noob questions sorry !
1/ Can i used it with 3way switches ?
2/ what are the pins 7 GND and 4 for ?
Thinks
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@ludoarchi said:
2/ what are the pins 7 GND and 4 for ?
7 and 4 pins are mapped to 7 and 4 in/out of an arduino module. GND is for ground. These pins could be used to manually control relay state.
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@mr_const ok i understand ! Thinks
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hi, great project. I have one idea, is it possible to add current and voltage measurement ?
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Ordered all the components for this project but now i see there are 12 v solid state relays on the list?? mine is not working, does it not need to have 5V version??
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Hello,
one question to the SSR Relay. The Arduino works with 5V, the SSR in the BOM is a 12V type. Is this a mistake? According to the Datasheet of the relay, the 12V type has an operating range from 9,6v to 14,4V
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@Achim looks like a mistake in BOM (maybe that aliexpress listing has changed). Project uses same relay, but 5V version is needed.
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Hello all,
I have finished to assemble one of this board today.
You can see some pictures of my board here :
http://www.photorapide.com/albums/jordan/khreln/ac-dc-double-solid-state-relay-module.htmlIf you want more pictures, ask me
The skecth works fine.
Thx for this project.
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@tonnerre33
Avesome photogallery
whose sketch you used? because I have a problem with phisycal switches if I use sketch of Nca78 (I wrote about this earlier)
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I used the sketch of Nca78 (2 months ago) but i only command relays from jeedom.
I didn't test physical switch change because i don't have neutral wire in my switch box
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@okos said:
@tonnerre33
Avesome photogallery
whose sketch you used? because I have a problem with phisycal switches if I use sketch of Nca78 (I wrote about this earlier)Sorry Okos I didn't notice the problem came from my sketch. I'm not using the physical switches at the moment (same reason than tonnerre33, no neutral wire where I have put it at the moment), but I will try to find some time next week to fix the sketch. I'll fix the temperature sending too as sometimes I have some tiny variations of temperature that generate a lot of message sending in a burst and it perturbates other sensors.
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@tonnerre33
Just a quick question before i order the PCB, is it realy 4.6x5 cm? (thats what it says on the dirtypcb website, but when i mesure the PCB in the diptrace file, it shows a perfect 5x5 cm.
can you please explain?
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PCB is 5*5cm.
You will also have to include the antenna of the NRF24 that is outside the PCB area.
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Yes, it's 5x5cm.
For information, i can't place this pcb in my wall box.
I'll search other wall box this week in order to find a greater box..If someone want just to test the PCB i can sell one PCB if you are in france
I have ordered 10 boards but i don't think use everything.
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@tonnerre33 said:
If someone want just to test the PCB i can sell one PCB if you are in france
I have ordered 10 boards but i don't think use everything.Same here if you are in Vietnam or asia, just pay postage and I can send you
I have 20 as first order from Seeed took too long to arrive I thought it was lost, so I ordered again from PCBWay. Then received both orders.@tonnerre33 what is the space available in your wall box ? Would a 43*45mm pcb fit ? Only one relay/switch on my future board but phase + neutral in and phase + neutral out so no need to have additionnal connectors. No SMD, safe distance between tracks + milling. And 0.1'' tracks for load so it should be ok without reinforcing the tracks with solder.
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@tonnerre33 Thanks buddy,
do you know if dirtypcb are still operational? because i've seen in their website that they want to migrate to another website "dangerousprototype"
did anyone order from them lately?
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@br0wn dev.dangerousprototypes.com is supposed to be a test site only, dirtypcb is still functional.
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Merci ^^
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@Nca78
I have searched others wall box today but nothing fit (box from france).
A 43x45mm pcb will fit well.
I tried the pcb of the roller-shutter-node (45x46mm) and the wall box fits well.
What do you mean by "no additionnal connectors" ? Will can use physical switches ?
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@mr_const said:
ybe that aliexpress listing has changed). Project uses same relay, but 5V version
Uggh, I just received 20 of the 12v ones yesterday that I purchased from the BOM link. Is it safe to say that these will absolutely not work, or is there some way to adapt them with a step-up converter or something?
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@tonnerre33 said:
@Nca78
I have searched others wall box today but nothing fit (box from france).
A 43x45mm pcb will fit well.
I tried the pcb of the roller-shutter-node (45x46mm) and the wall box fits well.
What do you mean by "no additionnal connectors" ? Will can use physical switches ?I mean that with my future PCB you have neutral and phase in, and neutral and phase out. No need to have an extra wire from "phase in" to go to the input of the relay + a connector to connect "neutral" in to "neutral out" (that is not available on the board). At the moment with the board I installed, I have to use a wago connector for neutral which takes some extra space.
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@Nca78 , would this module work as a roller shutter if the motor is not drawing more than 2A (the maximum current that this SSR relay can withstand is 2A) ?
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Hello,
Nca78 has already answered :
@Nca78 said:
@tonnerre33 said:
Hi,
can we install this module in a wall ?
Can we command shutters ?For the wall, that's the idea of keeping the 50*50mm size
For the shutters technically yes, but there are (at least) 2 problems :- if you have the 2 relays on at the same time = 2 directions you will probably kill the motor, there is no hardware protection on this board to avoid that (one of the relays must have power only when the other one is in off state). This can be done in software so it's not blocking.
- if you want to be able to control the level/percentage of closing, you need to measure time from min to max position, to do that you need to measure current (when motor stop consuming current it means shutter has reached it's 0% or 100% position). But there is no current sensor on this board, so you either need to implement a manual calibration process (that will lose precision over time) or use only manual control.
I am planning to test it when I have some time, and when I receive the PCB.
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Looking to do something similar, Thanks for the contribution.
However, I'd be very concerned about using an SSR (solid state relay) vs a mechanical relay. Even in the "OFF" position there is typically a small potential/current leakage through an SSR. When using SSR nearly all applications use a secondary mechanical disconnect to truely isolate the load, for service etc. Thoughts?
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@Y_sam said:
... to truely isolate the load, for service etc. Thoughts?For that, disconnect the fuse in your fuse box, it's the only safe way.
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@Y_sam,
Nca78 highlighetd two problems:- The absence of mecanical interlock between the "up" and "down" relays, (you can use a soft interlock to prevent them from beign activated at the same time)
- The absence of a current sensor to know whether or not the shutter is fully open or fully closed : I am trying to add an ACS712, but in my case, i will know if its fully open/close if the current becomes relatively high, because the my roller shutter doesnt have limit switches and keeps running ...
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@JonnyDev13 said:
@mr_const said:
ybe that aliexpress listing has changed). Project uses same relay, but 5V version
Uggh, I just received 20 of the 12v ones yesterday that I purchased from the BOM link. Is it safe to say that these will absolutely not work, or is there some way to adapt them with a step-up converter or something?
You cannot adapt them with a step-up converter, there's no space on the PCB for that. But you should test them with 5V, if you are lucky they might work. I'm using 5V relays with 3.3V without any problem. The "must switch off" value in datasheet (for the original, remember what you bought is a clone...) is 0.9V which should be ok (real switch off value will probably be closer to this than to 5V) but the "must switch on" value is 8.4V which is quite far away from the 5V. The only way you will know if it will reliably switch one with 5V is to give it a try.
@okos said:
Hello.
I tried to upload my two boards ( arduino pro mini 8Mhz , 3,3 V ) modified sketches but returned to sketch Nca78 (with DS18B20), unfortunately, does not operate a physical switch. Sometimes phisical switch changes state in domoticz ( not every time ) but relays do not change state.
Switching on and switching off the lights of domoticz changes state relay without a problem.
What could be wrong ?Sorry I'm a bit short on free time at the moment, didn't have time to take a look at the sketch yet.
What you are saying is sometimes you change the physical switch position, it changes the status in domoticz, but the light status is not matching the status of the physical switch and the value of the switch in Domoticz ?For example: light is off and domoticz says off. Then you push the switch and domoticz says the light is on. But in fact the light is still off ?
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@tonnerre33, je suis également en France et je n'ai pas de neutre dans mes interrupteurs. Peux tu me dire comment tu as pu tester le pcb stp. Mon anglais est loin d être top desolé !!
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@Nca78 Thanks for your thoughts. I will try testing it with 5v and see what happens.
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@laster13 hi, i have tried this pcb with my bedroom lamp. Indeed, these lamps are powered by electrical socket which include neutral wire.
For the others lamps, i need to find how to command them without neutral wire
I am looking at this project but this is an smd project :https://www.openhardware.io/view/249/MDMSNode-Lighting
@laster13 salut, en fait mes lampes de chambres sont sur prises commandées (donc accès au neutre), du coup j'utilise ce module pour ces lampes mais pour les autres bin il va falloir que je trouve autre chose
Je regarde un peu du coté de ce projet mais c'est du cms : voir le lien au dessus
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English please...
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I Will tried to speak english
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Thanks tonnerre33 for your help. Could you give me à shema of your installation in the bedroom ?
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Here is a schema of my installation without the node :
http://electric.system.free.fr/schemas/schemas/schema-prise-commandee.jpgand one with the pcb :
http://www.photorapide.com/images.php?photoName=2whnu7.png&photoId=935027
Edit : and the node with connectors :
http://www.photorapide.com/images.php?photoName=074tl3.jpg&photoId=935034
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thanks, I'll try. You say that your lamps are powered by electrical socket .
Is mounting possible on simple sockets with neutral wire? (non commandées)?
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Sure you can use an electrical socket without switch control.
But caution, max current is 2A ! It is ok for lamps but you can't supply a receiver which consumes more than 460VA per relay ( = 460W for resistive receiver).
I didn't see protection for relays, be careful
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I am trying to test a montage which I am not sure about and besides when I plug the pcb on the socket the lamp remains on. I invite you to read my post on the Domoticz forum.
http://easydomoticz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2680&p=25219#p25219I am sorry for my english, I use the traducer of google
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Hi All,
This is my first post on this site!!
Yes this is a really good project but for the UK controlling a light inside of a wall switch you would need to do the following.
Re-wire the ceiling rose as in the UK there is a live feed from the rose that is switched by the switch and then returns to the rose to the "switched live" See http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/project_images/lights_and_switches/ceilingroseb2.jpg
Put an extra cable up to the ceiling rose with the return cable from the board that goes to the switched live and add an extra terminal in the ceiling rose to link the neutral to the other side of the lamp fitting.
If the back box is metal, it would need to be changed to a plastic box , I wouldn't myself want to mount the board in an earthed metal box!!
As other contributors have noted there isn't any fusing on the live and neutral feeds if the SSR were to fail short because of a short circuit in the lamp or ceiling rose then there could be a large current going through board that could potentially cause a fire, safety is always the first thought with any mains electrical circuit.
I could see this board being used in a plastic box inline to a table lamp etc. but it would need a lot of work to re-wire your house if you intended to use it behind a wall switch.
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@laster13 Yes your schema is correct.
The sketch has been modified by Nca78, you can try it first.
The problem does not come from the unused switch, because i use this node without switch.
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I'm going to do these for my light switches but what should I use for in wall on off switch without relay?
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The link to to DirtyPCBs is broken, got a new one?
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@Hilltan Hello, i think this link will be ok : http://dirtypcbs.com/store/details/885/mysensors-v3-3-2-light-switch
For information, a few members have too many PCB of this node that's why if you are living in Vietnam or asia, Nca78 can send you PCB and if you are in france, i can send too (contact by pm for terms).
I use this node since 20 days ago, and it's working well
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Hi everyone.
I can not find anywhere Slow Blow Fuse (250v 0.2A). Does anyone has an available link??
Thanks in advance.
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Never mind, got them. thank you!!!
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@tonnerre33
I will be really interested to buy you all the components you would no longer need. NRF, pcb, fuse thermal ... If you agree, can you tell me a list of what you offer thanks
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If anyone in the UK is after boards/parts i have spares.
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hello, anyone use this project with home assistant?
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Thanks for this. One question about the SSR. Does it matter if its a zero crossing relay or not if just switching lamps with fixed amps? That the difference between the G3MB-202P and G3MB-202PL. I'm not sure which to get.
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@Paul-Derbyshire if you're buying on aliexpress at less than 3$ a relay, you're buying chinese clones like most of us here. I doubt they bothered implementing the zero-crossing function on the chinese clones...
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Hi,
I love this project. This is almost exactly what I wanted to do by myself (but I have no knowledge in PCB design). As this project shouldn't require much power, have you ever though about using a dropping capacitor PSU (http://www.circuitsgallery.com/2012/07/transformer-less-ac-to-dc-capacitor-power-supply-circuit2.html) instead of the HLK-PM01 ?
If this is a working solution, it would make your project even cheaper.An other question on the DS18B20. Wont the proximity with the relays (heat generators) will disturb the temperature reading ?
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Hello !
Transformerless design means there is not isolation between main voltage and low voltage parts. You can get electrocuted with 110/220V when touching the low voltage side. It means it can be used only in the case of a sealed box.For the temperature sensor the main source of heat is the hlk that heats up a lot. It's purpose is not to sense the temperature in the room, but to monitor the temperature inside the sensor and make sure there is not problem with the hlk overheating.
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@Nca78 Thanks for the advice.
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Would it be possible tot change the relays to one (or two) triacs, keeping it's current features and also allowing it to dim lights?
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anyone found the Slow Blow Fuse (250v 0.2A) on aliexpress? if yes please link.
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found 250V 0.25A o aliexpress - i believe this will be good enough - http://tiny.cc/h4fpiy
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@Sacha-Telgenhof : It also took me bit of time. It is the PINs on the board 7 GND 4 for two switches 7 and 4 are the digital inputs on arduino.
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hey @Aproxx, nice project, do you think a current sensor could be added to the PCB to monitor electrical consumption. the idea of adding triact to the circuit by @overlordt seems to work theoretically.
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My parts are on the way and I"m looking forward to trying this one out. Thanks for sharing this project!!
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If you create a new version, could you connect the other 2 5V and GND holes next to D6 so these can easily be used as power output?
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I can't understand (scrub here) how to wire the regular light switch to the board.
Supposing I want to use only one relay, I have to wire the switch to the 7 PIN and GND right?
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@Marco-Lo-Grasso said in
AC-DC double solid state relay module:Yes you have to do this, but i don't know if the sketch is working fine with the light switch
I haven't tested this feature yet.Caution, the light switch don't be connected to the 230V !
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Any suggestions for front panels on the light switches? I've connected mine to normal switches to control the relays, but I'd really like a 4-8 soft button front panel that I could also wire into GPIO's on an ESP for "scene" control outside of the local relays. Auy suggestions or experience would be great
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Hello, I'm not sure exactly of what you want to to, but you could use software i2c on those two pins and connect and i2c keypad. You can search mpr121 keypad on google or aliexpress.
But be careful you should add an isolating cover on top of it if you connect to this board as the crepage/cleatance between main voltage and 5V/3.3V is not sufficient in some part of the board and it could end up with low voltage circuit at main voltage...
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good to know clearence isn't there ... something i could correct though
An i2c and capacity touch could work great.. but i can't find any cleanly designed front panel that I could use in place of my light switches.
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So if I understanded right the device needs also neutral to work? That's a problem because here in Finland we only circulate the phase through light switches. Neutral goes straight to the lamps.
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@Misna said in
AC-DC double solid state relay module:So if I understanded right the device needs also neutral to work? That's a problem because here in Finland we only circulate the phase through light switches. Neutral goes straight to the lamps.
Yes it does. Same problem for most people, even here in Vietnam it's the same.
Solution is to put it in ceiling connected directly to the lights, and use radio switch to control it.
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Hi,
first of all you had an great idea to user a small layout with this functions.
The protection at the AC site is very good I think.Today I get ten boards with your current gerber files (v3.3.2).
But I think it does not work as expected:- Using a 5 V Arduino and the NRF without a level switcher with 3.3 V it will be break in the future.
- The big relay routes have no protection (I don't know if solder resist is the correct word).
- Maybe as pulldown resistor to the relay input could be useful.
- The three GND and Vcc Pins are not connected to each other.
- Maybe it could usefull to use fuse sockets for the not resetable fuse.
For the voltage problem we could use an 3.3 V Arduino mini pro with 8 MHz crystal.
In this case we don't need the LDO and could use LDO from the Arduino board.
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Sorry I forgot something.
For a 3.3 V Arduino we need a MOSFET or so to drive the SSR.
But there are cheep and small SMD packages available.
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@hugch no you don't need MOSFET for those SSR, the high level of input is below 3.3V. I've made a board with those and a 3.3V Arduino and didn't have any problem.
For this board it's missing fuses on the SSRs, if they fail and shortcut nothing will stop the short circuit at the moment.
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@Nca78 My SSRs are with 5 V level but one with 3.3 V level would be better. You are right.
And the fuses are important but i think the step down have an over current protection, but a PTC could useful.
But a MOSFET or equal is also required:
It is not a good idea to drive current intensive peripheral directly with an micro controller.
The absolute maximum ratings for an ATmega328p is 40 mA. And a SSR is using 25 mA or so.
The better choice is using a driver or a simple transistor circuit.To drive the SSR directly would not damage the controller at this moment, but your are decrease the lifetime.
And the lifetime for an in wall module or so is very important.
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Hello!!, my name is Alejandro, I'm from Spain and I have been working on something quite similar to this project. I would like to contribute to reach a final design. What I have done until now is a prototype board similar than yours and I would like to add a top board with touch buttons to fit into Livolo glass panel switch.
https://es.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-Livolo-Luxury-White-Pearl-Crystal-Glass-151mm-80mm-EU-standard-Double-Glass-Panel-VL/500715_1684198410.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.6cyWwJAnd try to do something like this also including ws2812 rgb led for touchpad and a small speaker just to sound someting when touch the button.
https://z-uno.z-wave.me/projects/sensor-wall-switch-based-on-livolo-glass/
My development is based on ESP8266 without rf communication but as I have progressed I have checked that Wifi connection is a complex system compared to rf so I am thinking to change to arduino or esp + nrf.
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Hi everyone . I managed to create my first module and it seems to working but why at my domoticz only one switch appears as new device???
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I solved my last problem, but now i see that although both of the switches in Domoticz show off, i have power on the second one. What could be the problem? Faulty ssr?
