💬 In Wall AC/DC Pcb for MySensors

[openhardware.io]

https://www.openhardware.io/view/13/In-Wall-ACDC-Pcb-for-MySensors

[msamy.earth]

• What are the differences between Rev2 & Rev3?
• Why do we have Dallas temp. sensor?

[sundberg84]

Hi!
Difference is 1) 240v Varistor placement, layout (more space for 240v parts), more space for fuses and bigger holes for 240v components.
Dallas temp is for testing purpose, placing this inside a wall and it generate heat - i want to know that it is within limits.

[punter9]

hey any suggestions for US spec hardware?

[sundberg84]

Yes! Or i would recommend you to look at petewills posts here: http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1607/safe-in-wall-ac-to-dc-transformers
Good luck!

[fgallarday]

Hi, just found your project and I believe it is a great job!

Please, I would like to try your project, but am unable to find alternative Aliexpress providers for the following material (because the provider does not deliver to my country) and cannot find any other provider for the same specs as:

• 10 x Zinc Oxide Varistor 250VAC 60J 2500A 10mm
  Please, could you provide different providers to choose from or the specs to look for them?
  Thank you very much and keep up the good work!

[alexsh1]

@fgallarday Did you check eBay? I ordered a pack these recently on the eBay

[fgallarday]

@alexsh1 Thank you @alexsh1 I cheked ebay and Aliexpress but was unable to find other supplier with exactly the same specifications. Please, someone could guide me regarding the alternative specs : "250VAC 60J 2500A 10mm" i have found not 60J but otherss...

[sundberg84]

Hi @fgallarday
Here: http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=10+x+Zinc+Oxide+Varistor+250VAC+60J+2500A+10mm&_id=260848704608&&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2658

[Sefi Ninio]

Hello @sunberg84
I went over the thread http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1607/safe-in-wall-ac-to-dc-transformers, and came across your PCB - Great work!
Not sure how I can have the PCB made - I'd appreciate any pointers. I have looked in the Design Files section but couldn't make sense of the files.

Thanks!

[sundberg84]

Hi @Sefi-Ninio!
You find a pcb manufacturer, check which gerber files they need and send them there in a zip/rar. I use Itead and they want these files in a .zip

Top layer: pcbname.GTL
Bottom layer: pcbname.GBL
Solder Stop Mask top: pcbname.GTS
Solder Stop Mask Bottom: pcbname.GBS
Silk Top: pcbname.GTO
Silk Bottom: pcbname.GBO
NC Drill: pcbname.TXT
Outline layer: pcbname.DO

The files can be found if you download the project from openhardware.io.

But a small note - i am redesigning it some at the moment because the AC traces are to close to each other. This can make the board unsafe if its placed in a dirty or high humidity enviroment. I will update the files this week. Also note this is a test project - im no electrical engineer and learning as the project evolves - i cant garantee its safe.

[Sefi Ninio]

Hi @sundberg84, really appreciate the quick reply!
Thanks for the explanation - I'll check Itead out.
Regarding the safety - I completely understand, but after reading all the 360+ posts in the thread, I gained confidence both in the HLK-PM01 as well as the general circuitry when using the fuses and varistor. I'm not electrical engineer as well, and learning as I go/read.

Thanks again for the contribution, waiting for the 4th rev. !

[sundberg84]

Great, I will try to release it tonight or tomorrow

Yea, i have a great confidence in the HLK as well, its my PCB and the AC traces i have learned more about and need to update.

[vil1driver]

Hi,

thanks for your great work..
great to have chosed a pwm output for the relay (ssr can be used as a dimmer)
but is it possible to add a fuse on the ssr output too ?

thanks

[sundberg84]

Hi @vil1driver!
This pcb does not contain any relay.

[vil1driver]

roh sry bad thread lol, i was think it was the http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1540/110v-230v-ac-to-mysensors-pcb-board/72

too much windows opened

I can delete it if needed

[sundberg84]

Ok - updated to 3.1. Its mainly changes on the AC side to decrease risk of creepage and increase clearance.
See changes.txt for more detailed info.

[sundberg84]

Playtime...

[Sefi Ninio]

Sweeet!!!!

Say @sundberg84, have you considered also adding one or two relays to the mix?
I know it'll probably increase it's size footprint but in terms for height, if you position them next to the HLK unit then there shouldn't be a noticeable height increase. SSRs are very small.

[sundberg84]

I have and might in the future... at the moment I'm focusing on safety, test and size. Rev 4 is ordered today with smd components. Let's see how that evolves first.

[Sefi Ninio]

Hi @sundberg84,
I was talking with a friend of mine who has pcb design experience about your board, and he told me to tell you that it would be better to add creapage protection between the 220v and the 5v sections, by bigger distance at also a longated gap. He told me the term, but I can't remember it now...

[Sefi Ninio]

Like the picture here shows :

https://www.google.co.il/search?q=pcb+board+220v+5v&client=ms-android-om-lge&prmd=ivsn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjO2Yb_gLTLAhUIVBQKHRzGAzgQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=518#tbm=isch&q=pcb+board+creapage+&imgrc=VW6CJt4F2bzR8M%3A

[sundberg84]

@Sefi-Ninio - Yea I should. Im working on Rev 4 and there is more creepage both between primary (220) and secondary (5) and also internally in primary. Everything is ordered but nothing recieved yet, but let me give you a small peak:

[Sefi Ninio]

Looking good!
I see you went with the SMD path! did it allow for a smaller PCB?
Don't see how you handle the creepage though.

[sundberg84]

Yes - smaller PCB.
Creepage is handled with:

1. Greater distance between components.
2. Holes in PCB between components/parts that are close to each other.

Creepage distance is calculated here: http://creepage.com/

[Sefi Ninio]

Even though it's untested, would you mind publishing the Gerber and bom files?

[GertSanders]

@sundberg84

Very nice board !

[sundberg84]

This post is deleted!

[Sefi Ninio]

SMD is easier with solder paste and hot air solder

[sundberg84]

This PCB has been updated to Rev 4.1 with the following changes:
(Note that this thread contains the non SMD version)

• Complete redesign of traces to improve size and stability.
• Nrf24l01+ now on the bottom side to make more room (with hope not RF disturbace from HLK or AC traces).
• Added silkmask with AC-DC seperation (Rev 4.1 > 5mm)
• AC clearance 2.5mm minimum
• Changed one AC trace from botton to top to increace creepage and changed milling
• MysX 2.3 + Analog IO
• Safety recommendations: This PCB meets the criteria of pollution level II (2,5mm (Basic) AC seperation and 5mm (Reinforced) AC-DC sepertion) and can be used "where only non-conductive contamination occurs. However, occasional temporary conductivity must be expected as a result of moisture condensation." Always use a sealed case to avoid contamination. Always read disclaimer.txt before using this PCB.

Images on https://www.openhardware.io/view/13/In-Wall-ACDC-Pcb-for-MySensors has been updated.

Please wait for PCB house to update to new gerber files before ordering (It should say M.Rev 2 (Manufacturer rev 2) for latest revision when selecting PCB house)

Im currently testing this rev...
If you want to be 100% sure, download and prev. revision.

[carthique]

Hi,

Can someone please suggest replacement parts for the 110v variant of this board.

Thanks
Karthik

[sundberg84]

@carthique - You need a 110 v varistor maybe something like: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321024816822?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true. Fuses and other components is the same.

[ashway]

@sundberg84, when I go to the order form, the revision there is M.Rev3. Which version of PCB does that manufacturer revision correspond to - 3.1 or 4.1???

[sundberg84]

@ashway - this is correct/latest version. The manufacturer rev 3 equals the latest 4.1.

[shabba]

Excuse the possibly silly question but the buy options is PCBs only? Or does it come with the housing too?

[sundberg84]

@shabba - PCB only.
I recommend using 3dhubs.com and find a local 3d printer for the case.
Files (.stl) attached in the project.

[shabba]

@sundberg84 thanks - I had a look in the design files and I think I covered the comments but could not find a .stl file.

[sundberg84]

@shabba - sorry you are right.
If i remember right I removed it because I wasnt 100% sure it would be ok going from 4.0 to 4.1 on the pcb.
Let me have a look and post it asap.

[bmokena]

Hi sundberg84,
I bought 10 of these PCBs. So can I use this PCB, add a relay and fuse and use it inside the wall to control light switches? or should I go rather go for the other PCB "In Wall AC/DC Pcb (with Relay) for MySensors (SMD)" ?

Thanks
Bob

[sundberg84]

@bmokena - if it fits, that should be ok. This PCB is made a more generic pcb so you can add any sensor/accuator to it including a relay. Use the MysX i/o and you can controll your relay through D3 for example.

[johmei]

@sundberg84
Hi, do you have any local Swedish printing services to recommend?

Ps. Got the PCBs from Pcbway yesterday and man was I surprised how small they were. Looks great and hope to get some nodes up and running soon, once all components get here.

[sundberg84]

@johmei - sorry, I wish i had any good recommendations for local PCB service.
The only research I have done leads me to that they are VERY expensive compared to these 10x10 chinese.
Good luck with your build! Images are always appreciated!

[johmei]

@sundberg84 - Thanks, but I was thinking about 3D printing services for boxes, cases and mounts in very small series (maybe even singles)?!

Regarding images we'll see if I manage to get any AC stuff going anytime soon. I have a lot of respect for AC and probably want to get to know the Arduino platform a bit more first. Got my first couple of regular DC nodes running yesterday and they have been running really well for 12 hours now (impressed of the small nrf24+ radio range). So many ideas to explore.
Actually ordered a set of your newbie PCBs a few days after my In wall AC PCB order so there will be a lot your autograph around my house..

[sundberg84]

@johmei - haha, I hope they will help you some in your quest for HA. About 3d printing I use 3dhubs.com and have tried different once and been satisfied. Go for one at your location if you want to pick up. I use one in Kalmar with shipping I can recommend.

[johmei]

Can't help myself but have to see if I can get a AC node going. question regarding capacitors: C1 is specified as 10uF in the circuit diagram but the BOM states 0,1, 1,0, 4,7 uF capacitors. What is the recommendation from the creator? Thanks

[sundberg84]

@johmei - you are right and the BOM is updated.
C1 should be a 10uF in my schematics, but its optional. Its recommended to have one higher and one 0.1uF capacitor with the voltage regulator since they can help avoiding spikes and drops.

[smilvert]

@sundberg84 Which housing are you using to this project? Can't find the stl-file. Does the 3dBoxWRelay.stl from the smd-project work here as well?

[sundberg84]

@smilvert - No, Im not sure.
I have not made a 3d box to the new version - let me have a look at that. Im working all weekend but i will look into it asap.

[johmei]

Looking at the images and schematics(V4.1) it looks like the 18B20 and LE33 are soldered in the wrong way?! old images or am I looking at this wrong?
Still waiting for slow blow fuses so not ready to test yet.

[sundberg84]

@johmei - some parts was supposed to be soldered from the bottom side, so it depends
Keep it in mind when you are building. I might have to make this more clear somehow on the PCB as well.

[johmei]

Ok, I was reffering to the pictures of the assembled board. My half done Node (no AC) works well with the two components "the other way". confised Traced the PCB connections before testing with 5VDC. As long as everyone double checks what they are doing it is no problem.

[sundberg84]

@johmei - "everyone doublecheck what they are doing" = that is a problem
I will make a note on the page and change whats needed for next rev, thanks for notising!

[johmei]

After quite a bit of abuse from resoldering components as I completely screwed up the order of things to get soldered I got the first couple of AC nodes running. These will be discarded once I get new Mini Pros to make fresh nodes without messing them up too much with my hot soldering iron. Been running them for 12 hours yesterday and everything seems fine. Great work on designing the PCBs @Sundberg84!
One tip is to cool the thermal cutoffs well while soldering. I broke the first one cooling it with pliers + aligator clip. Next I used water soaked paper around components and legs with great results. Just be mindful not to soak "the wrong components".
<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/DBln7"><a href="//imgur.com/DBln7"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[sundberg84]

@johmei - thank you! All tips for future revisions are appreciated! Let me know if I can do anything better and good luck with your nodes!

[johmei]

I think the nodes seem to run really well with minimal produced heat. Do you think there will be a 3D case design for the latest version PCB? Unfortunately I have no knowledge in 3D design to contribute.

[sundberg84]

@johmei - sorry, its been on my list as you probably see above.
I will try to make one asap!

[sundberg84]

Finally I made the changes to the silk-screen so the orientation of the LE33 and Dallas temp sensor is right.
Project updated and sent new revision to PCB manufacturer. The right revision if you want to buy should be Rev 4 which is the latest files (PCB Rev 4.1)

[The-Holgi]

Hello,
i´have purchased the in wall pcb rev.3.1.

Now i´m want to cut up the right part of the pcb and powering the pcb with 5V power adapter.
Why is the VCC pin (lower arrow) with the arduino GND pin (upper arrow) connectet?
The GND pin lower side is connectet to arduino VCC pin, is that a mistake?
I´m think the print vcc and ground are reversed.

[sundberg84]

@the-holgi Hi - hmm, this is an old revision and there might be misstakes as you describe. The current version is 4.1. Im traveling with work and dont have the documentation with me - but it should be quite easy to figure out if vcc and gnd are reversed by probing it with a multimeter. This PCB was not made to cut like this, but it might work - you have to try.

[yoshida]

Just FYI: I have ordered 20pcb in January, and even though they are 4.1rev (pcbway), the le33a voltage regulator's silk screen still points to the wrong direction (flat side outwards). Also the second picture here mentions 4.1 rev, but I think this is an older rev. flat side outwards will connect the le33a Vin 5V leg to the Vin for the NRF2.4 in the 4.1 rev. Or the other way is that the orientation is good, but then it should be on the other side of the board So if it would be on the same side like the capacitors, it would be ok. (I have realized this after the third node built up wrongly.. )
Do you know if the le33a gets 5V to the 3v3 leg, will it survive? Other components?

[sundberg84]

@yoshida - sorry, I will have a check. Either its the wrong files or it not been update at the factory.
Im sorry, I dont know if it will survive. You have to test it.

[yoshida]

@sundberg84

I was able to do a photo, so the dallas temp, and le33 "mask" is on the opposite side, I think this is the problem. (in your example pictures they are on the good side)

No worries, I use currently the newbie pcbs for light switching,