Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback)
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Hi everybody. I'd like to give some feedback on my experience as a new MySensors user here. As you can guess from the title, it's not going to be very positive. I hope this kind of post is not unwelcome. It's also very long. Please don't take this badly. It's just my own experience with MySensors I'd like to share.
Short info on me. I'm a software developer mainly working on GPU low level code. Although mostly a software guy, I have some experience with the hardware side of embedded systems and I know my way around a soldering iron and a scope. I was looking for a way to improve my home automation setup, mostly made of ZWave and cheap 433Mhz devices, with something open that would give me more control. Basically build my own nodes. MySensors seemed to fit this perfectly.
So came the lockdown and hey, perfect opportunity to get started ! Got myself a couple of Arduino Nanos, a few NRF24L01+ and lots of motivation to get my first GW and test node running. Unfortunately it ended up being an extremely frustrating and time consuming experience. More than once I had to resist the urge to throw everything in the nearest trash bin.
Problem 1. The gateway.
I had an ENC28J60 lying around for some time. The MySensors getting started guide clearly mentions that this is a supported option. So I connected it, got the UIPEthernet libs linked in the guide. Cloned the ntruchsess repo as mentioned in the readme. Hit compile and - incorrect library version. Great start. Cloned the MySensorsArduinoExamples entirely, copied the lib from there. Incorrect library version. OK. Started to hunt around Google, found the original UIPEthernet repo. Cloned that and it compiles. Good.Started the node, doesn't reply to pings. Searched the MySensors forums, found a topic titled 'Can't ping Ethernet Gateway ENC28J60 + Arduino Nano Clone' from 2017. In that topic some MySensor devs clearly state the ENC28J60 support is broken and that, I quote, 'Not sure anyone has bothered checking with the latest version of the library...'. Uh what ? If you know that this chip won't work since 2017, why is it still a recommended option on the building a GW guide ? Why not make it clear that only the w5x00 chips are supported ?
Problem 2. The Raspberry Pi gateway.
So ordering a w5100 for my GW is not an option right now. It would take a month to arrive due to lockdown. So I decide to use a Pi Zero as a GW. At least the ENC28J60 works with that one. I visit the 'Building a Raspberry Pi gateway' page. It talks about some radio communication bug in the 'latest Jessie'. Raspbian Jessie has been shelved in 2017. So uh, is that bug still an issue in current Raspbian Buster ? Do I still need to get the dev branch or not ? OK, I end up pulling the master branch. The Pi has two independent hardware SPI ports. I connect the ENC to spi0. Works. I connect the NRF24 to spi1. Oh wait, the pinout image in the wiring diagram section of the 'Building a Raspberry Pi gateway' is wrong. SPI1 CS0 is definitely not on pin 36 by default (but on pin 11). Why leave a clearly incorrect pinout diagram on your guide page ?So I try to compile the GW for using spi1. Doesn't work, radio connection failed. Searching the forums. Found a post titled 'Double SPI Radio Raspberry Pi'. Great, sounds like that guy has figured it out and a MySensor mod commented on it. Sounds like that should work. Followed his quick guide. Doesn't work. Search more. Oh wait, it actually can't possibly work - his cs0_pin assignment in the config is wrong (this setting expects BCM pin numbering, not Pi pin numbering as he used). So that forum topic - which probably pops up for everyone searching how to connect the NRF24 to a Pi spi1 port - won't work because it contains a fundamental error.
Problem 3. NRF24 range is bad. Really bad.
So I finally get the GW and a test node to communicate. Yay ! Smooth sailing from now on. But wait. If I position the node across the room, it starts dropping packets. Searched the forums. Filtering caps on both NRF modules - check. Clean power - check (battery pack for the node, lab power supply for the GW Pi). Range is still bad. Some forum posts seem to indicate that the Nano 3.3V regulator is not good enough to power the radio and you need a separate supply. OK. But why not mention this in your build guides ? All your guides clearly show that the NRF gets directly connected to the 3.3v rail of the Nano. Well I don't have a voltage regulator. Searching more. Lots of conflicting information. Maybe the NRF is counterfeit. Yep it probably is. Order and try another one ? Order and try an external regulator ? Lockdown, week long waits for any oversea deliveries, so nope, not an option. Found lots of topics with people having range issues on that radio. Common solution seems to be switching to the RFM69 on a different frequency band. Would have been nice to know that before. Why not mention this in the guides if it's such common knowledge apparently ?Well that's where I stand right now. What was supposed to be a fun and satisfying experience to build some home made IoT devices ended up being a long and frustrating one leaving me with a feeling of having wasted my time. I wanted to build some fun nodes but after all that time spent trying and searching and ripping my hair out, I still don't even have a stable network running.
And yes, some of this is probably due to bad counterfeit HW and also my own overexpectations. But a lot of the frustration came from the obsolete, outdated, conflicting and sometimes blatantly false information presented both on the official MySensors guides, as well as in the forums. I wasted so much time searching and trial'n'erroring solutions to problems that wouldn't even exist if they were clearly outlined in some up-to-date guides.
At this point I'm unsure about how to proceed. I like the idea behind MySensors and support in Home Assistant (which I use for HA) seems good. I could order an NRF24 PA LNA. Or some RFM69's. And try both. And have a more reliable network - maybe.
But I don't really feel like spending weeks on this just tinkering around and trying to make the basic network behave in a reliable way. Maybe I misinterpreted what the MySensors platform is about. My impression of MySensors was that this is a solid and well tested platform where the basics would just work out of the box without much tinkering around. And where I could spend my time on what actually matters to me - building my custom nodes. Trying out dozens of different radios from different manufacturers, different power supplies, different DIY dipole antennas and whatnot is just not something I'm interested in. Maybe I'll just get a commercial ZWave interface with digital inputs and connect it to the Arduino instead.
Thanks for reading.
@alex28 said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
Problem 2. The Raspberry Pi gateway.
Yes you need to add overlay to /boot/config.txt to use both SPIs. I have working gateway which utilizes both SPI ports and works without issue.
So have you achieved working GW on raspberry?@alex28 said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
Problem 3. NRF24 range is bad. Really bad.
I am using this NRF24 PA LNA module on my gateway and the cheapest NRF24 modules on my nodes. This works pretty good. I suggest you buy some good quality PA LNA module for your gateway as they require proper shielding and the cheap ones don't have it. CDEBYTE modules are considered to have original Nordic chips and has many good reviews on this forum. And yes, you need to ensure you have good power supplied to radios. Also 2.4GHz can be easily blocked by concrete or metal obstacles if it is placed closed to them, for example I have outdoor light node with concrete base, and I had to stick radio module above concrete part to achieve stable connection, same goes for metal enclosures and boxes. My GW is places in metal distribution box, so I mounted external antenna on its door to avoid shielding of a signal.
I understand your frustration, but you've chosen not the easiest or common way to begin with. Most people on this forum use standalone serial or ethernet gateway and don't bother connecting radio directly to Raspberry, that's why you had such a bad time finding correct answers to your problems. Good thing is that you seem to be close to a working result and have gain much experience and can make valuable contribution to this community.
Radio networks are flawed by design in my opinion, I've had hard time with commercial Zwave products, and community support wasn't great either, as that is proprietary protocol and you basically rely solely on manufacturer once you've bought a node for 50$ you almost on your own.
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@alex28 said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
Problem 2. The Raspberry Pi gateway.
Yes you need to add overlay to /boot/config.txt to use both SPIs. I have working gateway which utilizes both SPI ports and works without issue.
So have you achieved working GW on raspberry?@alex28 said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
Problem 3. NRF24 range is bad. Really bad.
I am using this NRF24 PA LNA module on my gateway and the cheapest NRF24 modules on my nodes. This works pretty good. I suggest you buy some good quality PA LNA module for your gateway as they require proper shielding and the cheap ones don't have it. CDEBYTE modules are considered to have original Nordic chips and has many good reviews on this forum. And yes, you need to ensure you have good power supplied to radios. Also 2.4GHz can be easily blocked by concrete or metal obstacles if it is placed closed to them, for example I have outdoor light node with concrete base, and I had to stick radio module above concrete part to achieve stable connection, same goes for metal enclosures and boxes. My GW is places in metal distribution box, so I mounted external antenna on its door to avoid shielding of a signal.
I understand your frustration, but you've chosen not the easiest or common way to begin with. Most people on this forum use standalone serial or ethernet gateway and don't bother connecting radio directly to Raspberry, that's why you had such a bad time finding correct answers to your problems. Good thing is that you seem to be close to a working result and have gain much experience and can make valuable contribution to this community.
Radio networks are flawed by design in my opinion, I've had hard time with commercial Zwave products, and community support wasn't great either, as that is proprietary protocol and you basically rely solely on manufacturer once you've bought a node for 50$ you almost on your own.
@monte this is exactly the point. There is no mention or way to know you're choosing the hardest possible combo of hardware until you've spent hours fiddling with it. You'll find more posts about counterfeit radios rather than what a good radio is. There is saying that they don't teach treasury agents what every counterfeit bill looks like because there are too many and it's always changing. They teach them what a real bill looks like so they will know a fake when they see it. Same thing here. Just post the place to buy a good radio. Don't post a guide on rpi gw if it's the hardest and least used option, leave that to the forum.
I would rather spend my time building and using the sensors rather than troubleshooting and figuring out problems, which it seems like that's what I do a lot of. It could very well be the choices of hardware I'm making I'll completely admit that but I don't know because there are so many paths you can take. OTA updates are something I'd like to incorporate but there is no clear path to success there for me. I feel like that will lead to frustration based on what I've read in the forum. Again because there are too many options without the clear path laid out.
I keep coming back because I really see the potential and there really is no other platform like MySensors. If I had that strong reliable baseline to build from I'd have some pretty cool ideas and sensors to contribute.
Instead I'm building sensors with Wi-Fi connections all over the place when a single gw connecting to the internet or a controller would be a much better solution. -
I'm an experienced embedded developer and I spent weeks tinkering with various things around MySensors. Here are my 2 cents to anybody who wants to start quickly and painlessly.
- Do not bother with anything but Arduino, nano is especially simple to use due to the built-in USB. I personally prefer pro minis due to the form factor. Do NOT bother with Raspberry Pi, it is too much work to get something done unless you have pre-build images you can just dd on your SD card.
- Please, if you are starting with Arduino and stuff, USE some shield for your radio module. Order some Nano RF24 shield like this one https://www.amazon.com/Emakefun-Terminal-Expansion-ATMEGA328P-Interface/dp/B07N8PLFVC to avoid self-wiring. nRF24 4x2 header is idiotic and it is easy to make frustrating mistakes, have loose wires, miss a capacitor, have a weak voltage regulator, etc.
- A serial gateway with a nano on a shield can be put together in 5 minutes. You just stack things up, make sure you CE and CS pins are right and upload a sketch. You are done.
- nRF24 is a radio on 2.4GHz. Let it sink for a bit. Almost everything wireless (and microwaves) in your house runs on that frequency. Do yourself a favor, run a simple wifi scan on your phone and see which part of the band is messed up and which is available. It is simple to do today with free Android and Apple apps.
- Watch your signal strength! What do you do when you start dropping packets? Put both modules closer and bump signal UP right? WRONG! That will make it worse and you will go down the spiral trying to figure out why your nRF24 radio is total crap. Closer you get, weaker signal you need. Seriously. If you will be operating the same room, set a signal to LOW. When you will go over one wall, set it to HIGH. I'm using nrf24l01+pa+lna modules (one with antenna) between house and garden, three walls in between, 50 yards, and on LOW I have 100% reliable connection, no dropped packets.
As of now, I'm using these battery-powered stacks (nrf24l01+pa+lna & jModule2 & pro mini 3.3V) around the backyard and I'm happy camper:
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@monte this is exactly the point. There is no mention or way to know you're choosing the hardest possible combo of hardware until you've spent hours fiddling with it. You'll find more posts about counterfeit radios rather than what a good radio is. There is saying that they don't teach treasury agents what every counterfeit bill looks like because there are too many and it's always changing. They teach them what a real bill looks like so they will know a fake when they see it. Same thing here. Just post the place to buy a good radio. Don't post a guide on rpi gw if it's the hardest and least used option, leave that to the forum.
I would rather spend my time building and using the sensors rather than troubleshooting and figuring out problems, which it seems like that's what I do a lot of. It could very well be the choices of hardware I'm making I'll completely admit that but I don't know because there are so many paths you can take. OTA updates are something I'd like to incorporate but there is no clear path to success there for me. I feel like that will lead to frustration based on what I've read in the forum. Again because there are too many options without the clear path laid out.
I keep coming back because I really see the potential and there really is no other platform like MySensors. If I had that strong reliable baseline to build from I'd have some pretty cool ideas and sensors to contribute.
Instead I'm building sensors with Wi-Fi connections all over the place when a single gw connecting to the internet or a controller would be a much better solution.@mhkid Well, I think tutorials must be updated and graded in terms of difficulty, that will ensure that newcomers will first build serial node based on arduino nano and only after having working network will try harder solutions.
That said, I believe that troubleshooting is the best way to learn new topic. Especially if you have helping community to come for an answer when you feel like you've come to a dead end. -
@mhkid Well, I think tutorials must be updated and graded in terms of difficulty, that will ensure that newcomers will first build serial node based on arduino nano and only after having working network will try harder solutions.
That said, I believe that troubleshooting is the best way to learn new topic. Especially if you have helping community to come for an answer when you feel like you've come to a dead end.@monte mhkid summed it up nicely. My entire point here was that there was no way to know that my choice of hardware was uncommon. The guide made it sound like this would be a perfectly valid and well supported choice. Yes, I have a functioning Pi based GW now, but the radio link is far too unreliable to make it useful. After considering all pros and cons, I decided to not proceed with MySensors at this point. The lockdown is over and I now have much less time to put into this. Instead I will try the Z-Uno, which seems more in line with my specific use case.
Still, I'm glad my feedback has spawned some discussion around this. Maybe it will help to improve MySensors in that respect. Maybe I'll come back to MySensors at some point too, because it is an interesting platform after all.
@monte said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
That said, I believe that troubleshooting is the best way to learn new topic. Especially if you have helping community to come for an answer when you feel like you've come to a dead end.
Well that depends. Stupid analogy : If you're a photographer and get a new camera, a nice customizable one that gives you lots of manual options to play around with, you would still expect it to work out of the box for simply taking some basic photos. If you have to take it apart entirely and start swapping out its internal components using trial and error, just to be able to use it for the one thing you ultimately got it for - taking photos - then you'd probably not be very happy.
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I hope it is OK to post this here, I am not sure how to add this to the documentation, but my biggest pain point when starting out was that you have to use mysensors >2.2 when running on a raspberry pi 4, but the rfm gateway code has a bug in versions bigger than 2.2. I spent more than a week debugging that until I found the github issue and settled for a serial gateway, which I am very happy with, thank you mysensors!
If a warning could be put on the gateway page that would be great!
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Hello,
@mhkid @alex28
That's too bad that you never asked for help (except mhkid, one time) while you were so many times in a dead end.. some waste of time, I completely agree with you. Don't be shy :)
Actually I'm a dev too, high or low or blackbelt level doesn't matter, but what I know very well is that I like to fix problems by myself, I rarely ask for help too. But the truth is when someone can save me some time, my precious spare time, I'm always very glad to find him.@alex28 that's good to hear that perhaps you found another framework which can fit your need. I really hope and wish you success, especially if it costs 50€ per devboard.
This is quite interesting actually, now I wonder about something..
To people:
if we would sell boards for 50€, eg on mainsite "Store" page, with MySensors howtos and high success rate, would you really buy it?
or would you still try to use what you have left in your drawers?If so, it's maybe possible to make your dream become true.
Of course, high rate of success would only apply to these kitsNote: to any newcomer reading this topic, regarding the "don't know where to buy genuine nrf24", you can find links on mainsite, "Store page", for some recommended modules. And don't forget those decoupling capacitors ;)
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Hello,
@mhkid @alex28
That's too bad that you never asked for help (except mhkid, one time) while you were so many times in a dead end.. some waste of time, I completely agree with you. Don't be shy :)
Actually I'm a dev too, high or low or blackbelt level doesn't matter, but what I know very well is that I like to fix problems by myself, I rarely ask for help too. But the truth is when someone can save me some time, my precious spare time, I'm always very glad to find him.@alex28 that's good to hear that perhaps you found another framework which can fit your need. I really hope and wish you success, especially if it costs 50€ per devboard.
This is quite interesting actually, now I wonder about something..
To people:
if we would sell boards for 50€, eg on mainsite "Store" page, with MySensors howtos and high success rate, would you really buy it?
or would you still try to use what you have left in your drawers?If so, it's maybe possible to make your dream become true.
Of course, high rate of success would only apply to these kitsNote: to any newcomer reading this topic, regarding the "don't know where to buy genuine nrf24", you can find links on mainsite, "Store page", for some recommended modules. And don't forget those decoupling capacitors ;)
@scalz said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
That's too bad that you never asked for help (except mhkid, one time) while you were so many times in a dead end.. some waste of time, I completely agree with you. Don't be shy :)
That's a personality thing. Documentation is very important to me. When I encounter a technical problem, on personal projects or on work projects alike, I will do extensive research in order to assess, understand the cause and eventually solve the problem. I will very rarely post a technical question on a forum. That's just the way I work. Then again, I did mention that this was purely a personal experience report :slightly_smiling_face: Different people have different approaches and will have different experiences.
@scalz said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
@alex28 that's good to hear that perhaps you found another framework which can fit your need. I really hope and wish you success, especially if it costs 50€ per devboard.
Thanks. You pay mostly the proprietary ASIC on it, the ZWave license/brand, but also compliance with pretty strict performance specifications on the HF/radio side. Let's see how it goes.
In fact, the cheaper component price was not the reason that made me consider MySensors in the first place. The open nature of the platform was. I'm perfectly fine with paying more for solid and reliable hardware. I think that is also an important point to keep in mind. As far as I see it, this open and community driven aspect is the greatest strength of MySensors. While the cheap component aspect is certainly important for many people, it can also lead to a lot of problems due to counterfeit low quality HW.
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Hello,
@mhkid @alex28
That's too bad that you never asked for help (except mhkid, one time) while you were so many times in a dead end.. some waste of time, I completely agree with you. Don't be shy :)
Actually I'm a dev too, high or low or blackbelt level doesn't matter, but what I know very well is that I like to fix problems by myself, I rarely ask for help too. But the truth is when someone can save me some time, my precious spare time, I'm always very glad to find him.@alex28 that's good to hear that perhaps you found another framework which can fit your need. I really hope and wish you success, especially if it costs 50€ per devboard.
This is quite interesting actually, now I wonder about something..
To people:
if we would sell boards for 50€, eg on mainsite "Store" page, with MySensors howtos and high success rate, would you really buy it?
or would you still try to use what you have left in your drawers?If so, it's maybe possible to make your dream become true.
Of course, high rate of success would only apply to these kitsNote: to any newcomer reading this topic, regarding the "don't know where to buy genuine nrf24", you can find links on mainsite, "Store page", for some recommended modules. And don't forget those decoupling capacitors ;)
@scalz not sure how to take the comment. I've posted and contributed (even developing a library) so it's not like I haven't participated. I bought parts from the links and still had issues with radios. Whether help was asked for or not that doesn't make the constructive feedback invalid. Feedback is a gift and in this case it should be taken that way. These are suggestions to make MySenors accessible to more people.
Yeah there is a good chance I would buy it. When I started my journey into home iot devices I was buying $45 light switches so if it was a good product I would.
I've looked at the MySensors gw but several of the comments mentioned issues so l steered clear. It's not the cost. What's being suggested here is not a huge criticism it's just asking to have a clear path to a high probability of success. Which is mainly cleaning up the documentation. If I had a solid working setup I'd help do it but I don't. I love the platform and the idea is really great, it's just too scattered and needs to be more focused. Don't try to be all things to all people. -
@scalz said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
That's too bad that you never asked for help (except mhkid, one time) while you were so many times in a dead end.. some waste of time, I completely agree with you. Don't be shy :)
That's a personality thing. Documentation is very important to me. When I encounter a technical problem, on personal projects or on work projects alike, I will do extensive research in order to assess, understand the cause and eventually solve the problem. I will very rarely post a technical question on a forum. That's just the way I work. Then again, I did mention that this was purely a personal experience report :slightly_smiling_face: Different people have different approaches and will have different experiences.
@scalz said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
@alex28 that's good to hear that perhaps you found another framework which can fit your need. I really hope and wish you success, especially if it costs 50€ per devboard.
Thanks. You pay mostly the proprietary ASIC on it, the ZWave license/brand, but also compliance with pretty strict performance specifications on the HF/radio side. Let's see how it goes.
In fact, the cheaper component price was not the reason that made me consider MySensors in the first place. The open nature of the platform was. I'm perfectly fine with paying more for solid and reliable hardware. I think that is also an important point to keep in mind. As far as I see it, this open and community driven aspect is the greatest strength of MySensors. While the cheap component aspect is certainly important for many people, it can also lead to a lot of problems due to counterfeit low quality HW.
@alex28 @mhkid
I just meant what I thought.
I like to find solution by myself too. Like you it's super rare that I ask for help. But, I'm also an impatient guy, very impatient, I hate being stuck during a rush etc. I always feel getting stuck more than one day is like wasting time and money, don't you think. Still it happened more than once to me, of course. That's funny I'm saying that, as I actually I'm working in research field :sweat_smile:This is why I said you shouldn't have hesitated to ask community for help, lot of kind people here.
@alex28 said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
In fact, the cheaper component price was not the reason that made me consider MySensors in the first place. The open nature of the platform was. I'm perfectly fine with paying more for solid and reliable hardware. I think that is also an important point to keep in mind. As far as I see it, this open and community driven aspect is the greatest strength of MySensors. While the cheap component aspect is certainly important for many people, it can also lead to a lot of problems due to counterfeit low quality HW.
I completely agree, that's why I trusted in MySensors years ago.
And supporting low quality, and too many platform, is pita, especially when you just have very little spare time, all of that for free of course. That's why we trust in community to help us.About my own xp, I got success the first time I got started with MySensors+rf24Serial gw.
But it was just a quick test, as my first goal was to use rfm69. No one told me rfm69 was superior to rf24, to me it just made sense.I'm in favor of serial gw actually because I think it's :
- more "simple"
- secure. Just a serial connection. no tcp connection etc
- reliable. doesn't rely on an OS to run the network, and stronger against noise in radio which could be introduced by rpi for example, when power supply is not polished, filtered, decoupled etc. No one said that in the docs, I know, it's certainly missing infos. It's just, imo, from personal xp.
That said, we have heard your wish about improving docs, and providing hw with trusted howtos (we have some good hw designs, for gw or nodes, with variable bom cost).
Thank you for your feedbacks -
What an interesting thread this became. Over some time/years ago I tried to start with MySensors. Unfortunately I failed miserably because I tried it to combine with starting with Openhab, and connect mysensors by mqtt.
The Openhab route combined with Mysensors is still the route I want to go: combine the open architecture of Openhab to connect different vendor approaches added with the flexible way of MySensors.
To be complete: My background is a bachelor in Physics. So the basic programming and electronics may not be the real problem, although I am certainly not claiming to know everything.
To end up this post: in the next couple of weeks/months I have spare time to invest in the project. When I combine this with the things the topic starter ave addressed I have the following to offer to the Mysensors community:
“I am offering to write and give feedback of the guides and information found in the forum, to document at what point I am stuck with the given information. I hope the community can and will do something with this feedback. So long as I am not going to be completely stuck, I can and will be writing the feedback.”
Off coarse I need to know if the community is waiting for such an approach before I start to write.
My thoughts of devices to use in the network:
- mqtt gateway: wired based on cloned arduine with hat ethernet
- mqtt gateway based on wifi based esp8266 nodemcu board
- radio network: base the nrf24 version
- radio network: based on rfm69 for secure transmission (opening doors with nrf24 does not feel safe)
- repeaters as needed or extra gateways (3 story concrete house)
- sensors and actuators: starting with wallpowered, later adding battery powered
So, how does this approach sound to you all?
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I'm an experienced embedded developer and I spent weeks tinkering with various things around MySensors. Here are my 2 cents to anybody who wants to start quickly and painlessly.
- Do not bother with anything but Arduino, nano is especially simple to use due to the built-in USB. I personally prefer pro minis due to the form factor. Do NOT bother with Raspberry Pi, it is too much work to get something done unless you have pre-build images you can just dd on your SD card.
- Please, if you are starting with Arduino and stuff, USE some shield for your radio module. Order some Nano RF24 shield like this one https://www.amazon.com/Emakefun-Terminal-Expansion-ATMEGA328P-Interface/dp/B07N8PLFVC to avoid self-wiring. nRF24 4x2 header is idiotic and it is easy to make frustrating mistakes, have loose wires, miss a capacitor, have a weak voltage regulator, etc.
- A serial gateway with a nano on a shield can be put together in 5 minutes. You just stack things up, make sure you CE and CS pins are right and upload a sketch. You are done.
- nRF24 is a radio on 2.4GHz. Let it sink for a bit. Almost everything wireless (and microwaves) in your house runs on that frequency. Do yourself a favor, run a simple wifi scan on your phone and see which part of the band is messed up and which is available. It is simple to do today with free Android and Apple apps.
- Watch your signal strength! What do you do when you start dropping packets? Put both modules closer and bump signal UP right? WRONG! That will make it worse and you will go down the spiral trying to figure out why your nRF24 radio is total crap. Closer you get, weaker signal you need. Seriously. If you will be operating the same room, set a signal to LOW. When you will go over one wall, set it to HIGH. I'm using nrf24l01+pa+lna modules (one with antenna) between house and garden, three walls in between, 50 yards, and on LOW I have 100% reliable connection, no dropped packets.
As of now, I'm using these battery-powered stacks (nrf24l01+pa+lna & jModule2 & pro mini 3.3V) around the backyard and I'm happy camper:
@pptacek Had not seen those before. Order some and a few nanos to go with it. I had been using the slim node v2 AA battery boards using just the 328p bare chip. Issue I have with that board is the layout of the pins for my needs. It is a great board and I use the nodes I have a lot - no disrespect meant to the developer of it.
I agree that the entry ramp to get mysensors working is a bit complex. I started with the RPi as the gateway because well, it should work. Had a hell of a time making it function. Ended up getting the RPi hat that has the capacitor and NRF slot on it that plugs into the GPIO headers. But, issues persisted with the library for the RPi not working on the RPi 2 until some very helpful folks pointed me in the right direction. A lot of this is pure tinkering and not yet a prime time off the shelf system. I knew that going in and accepted. It has been a great learning experience. The frustration I initially had was all because I expected the guides/docs to be up to date. They are not. As bad as that is, once you accept it and decided to a) add to the docs yourself or b) carry on screaming it becomes rewarding. As an example, getting MySensors to work in Hom Assistant is easy using an MQTT gateway....until you realize that HA tells the nodes what measurment units to use and the nodes then flip (from Celsius to Fahrenheit) when you think it should do the conversion on the front end of HA. I still, for the life of me cannot get the nodes to flip back to Celsius from an MQTT command (had to reflash the nodes with the code).
At the end of all this I am still having fun and learning new things. As the OP said this is not my first programming rodeo (currently a senior SQL developer working with epic sized data with a massive helping of javascript, R, python, and .NET). The micro controller code paradigm was (is still?) new to me even after almost 6 years of messing around with various projects including MySensors.
If we can help any new people stay on this journey it is time well spent. I offer my services for any help that may be needed for docs or guides.
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What an interesting thread this became. Over some time/years ago I tried to start with MySensors. Unfortunately I failed miserably because I tried it to combine with starting with Openhab, and connect mysensors by mqtt.
The Openhab route combined with Mysensors is still the route I want to go: combine the open architecture of Openhab to connect different vendor approaches added with the flexible way of MySensors.
To be complete: My background is a bachelor in Physics. So the basic programming and electronics may not be the real problem, although I am certainly not claiming to know everything.
To end up this post: in the next couple of weeks/months I have spare time to invest in the project. When I combine this with the things the topic starter ave addressed I have the following to offer to the Mysensors community:
“I am offering to write and give feedback of the guides and information found in the forum, to document at what point I am stuck with the given information. I hope the community can and will do something with this feedback. So long as I am not going to be completely stuck, I can and will be writing the feedback.”
Off coarse I need to know if the community is waiting for such an approach before I start to write.
My thoughts of devices to use in the network:
- mqtt gateway: wired based on cloned arduine with hat ethernet
- mqtt gateway based on wifi based esp8266 nodemcu board
- radio network: base the nrf24 version
- radio network: based on rfm69 for secure transmission (opening doors with nrf24 does not feel safe)
- repeaters as needed or extra gateways (3 story concrete house)
- sensors and actuators: starting with wallpowered, later adding battery powered
So, how does this approach sound to you all?
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I'm far from objective since I'm behind the project, but I think the easiest way to get started with MySensors is to use Candle. I've given a lot or workshops with it now, and it's getting to be quite good.
- It uses Mozilla's WebThings Gateway, which is much more userfriendly than the other smart home controllers.
- It offers voice control for all mysensors abilities.
- The Candle Manager plugin allows you to upload code to Arduino's through a step by step wizard. It even allows you to make changes to the code in a wysiwyg manner. No need to install the Arduino IDE.
Perhaps the guide could point to it as an option for absolute beginners?
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@monte @alowhum : the choice I made for OpenHab was based on the open structure which allows connecting different vendor devices by the development of a glue layer, called bindings. A large pre for me is the support of my alarm system, so (in theory) I already have wired sensors that I can use at all my (external) doors and windows. I am really looking for a controller that will fit my needs, and grow with it.
I'm sure Home Assistant and/or Candle (never heard of it before) will also be fine for use with MySensors/MQTT. But is is like selecting a car: multiple vendors will bring you from A to B, most vendors will do the job at a decent speed and reliability. At the same time some people prefer a german car, other people prefer a French brand an so on. In a later post I will explain my selection of OpenHab more in depth.
@scalz @Yveaux @hek @kiesel You all 'voted' or 'liked' my post. So I guess this needs a decent follow up. At what place do you want me to document my struggles? In this thread, or a new thread ? And when a new thread has the advantage, please let me know in what section I should start it!
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@monte @alowhum : the choice I made for OpenHab was based on the open structure which allows connecting different vendor devices by the development of a glue layer, called bindings. A large pre for me is the support of my alarm system, so (in theory) I already have wired sensors that I can use at all my (external) doors and windows. I am really looking for a controller that will fit my needs, and grow with it.
I'm sure Home Assistant and/or Candle (never heard of it before) will also be fine for use with MySensors/MQTT. But is is like selecting a car: multiple vendors will bring you from A to B, most vendors will do the job at a decent speed and reliability. At the same time some people prefer a german car, other people prefer a French brand an so on. In a later post I will explain my selection of OpenHab more in depth.
@scalz @Yveaux @hek @kiesel You all 'voted' or 'liked' my post. So I guess this needs a decent follow up. At what place do you want me to document my struggles? In this thread, or a new thread ? And when a new thread has the advantage, please let me know in what section I should start it!
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@monte @alowhum : the choice I made for OpenHab was based on the open structure which allows connecting different vendor devices by the development of a glue layer, called bindings. A large pre for me is the support of my alarm system, so (in theory) I already have wired sensors that I can use at all my (external) doors and windows. I am really looking for a controller that will fit my needs, and grow with it.
I'm sure Home Assistant and/or Candle (never heard of it before) will also be fine for use with MySensors/MQTT. But is is like selecting a car: multiple vendors will bring you from A to B, most vendors will do the job at a decent speed and reliability. At the same time some people prefer a german car, other people prefer a French brand an so on. In a later post I will explain my selection of OpenHab more in depth.
@scalz @Yveaux @hek @kiesel You all 'voted' or 'liked' my post. So I guess this needs a decent follow up. At what place do you want me to document my struggles? In this thread, or a new thread ? And when a new thread has the advantage, please let me know in what section I should start it!
@Psilin I know about OpenHAB's bindings, I was going to build my system on it. But then I found HA and fell in love with it. HA has a huge number of integrations and you can always write your own too. But if you prefer java to python, then I can understand your choice.
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For people who like a clean PCB sensor or serial gateway node based on Atmel 328P for battery or 5-12V operation check out the PCB I made here on https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/5RV25Fc0. It incorporates the voltage regulators , capacitors and connector to simply plug in a NRF24 module and be done with it. Soldering is required but not terribly difficult. I usually just depopulate an Arduino nano for most of the parts ...
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@pptacek said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):
jModule2
Do you have details on these sticks? What is jmodule2?
@mhkid here you go: https://www.openhardware.io/view/332/jModule2
I honestly use it for much more than MySensors.
I made myself a little RC transmitter/receiver ecosystem out of the "3.3V Pro Mini + jModule2 + NRF24L01+(PA+LNA)" sandwich.
I have about 4 RC transmitters (mostly made of PS2 analog controller + above) and a bunch of RC receivers (DRV8833 + above) for little boats, cars, robots, or whatnot. If you buy these at bulk, they are under $10 with driver for two motors, you can program them in any way you want and kids can have a lot of fun. And if they break/drown/burn few, I can whip another 5 in a couple of hours.IMHO 3.3V Pro Mini + jModule2 + NRF24L01+(PA+LNA) + DRV8833 + 2xAA or 1S LiPo battery is very powerful combination, completely customizable, tiny and cheap.
I might make an Instructable for it or something.
