Long Range Transmission

[scalz]

@tbowmo: yep, I completely agree, I think it would be a very very cool thing. I wanted to make one, but no time to test everything unfortunately..(but I have all the components!), so I am waiting after your work ;) ). So for the moment I have just designed only one thing for 1284p.
So why not sam L21 as it is picopower? In other hand, for the moment it is a little bit more expensive than aliexpress 1284p. But that is not the same power!! And if bought at Mouser, sure the difference is not big!
Sure I prefer atsam ;) I let you doing it, you are more skilled on this than me! plus I have so much things in progress, hw/sw, and trying to make a mobile app that make me some headhache! ouch I need some pause!!

[GertSanders]

@tbowmo I also considered the SAMD, it's just that I received some atmega1284p from atmel (SMD samples), so I thought of doing a board for those first.

My first design for this mcu was for the 40 pin DIP version. I use this for all sorts of demo's and tests at our codedojo. I plan to update this design, and try my hand at smd.

I received these from atmel, but I realised too late that they would be impractical to handsolder. I would love to use them.

[tbowmo]

@scalz

Are saml21e18 available on aliexpress.com? Have searched but can't find any..

[GertSanders]

@tbowmo No, I got these as samples from Atmel. They were nice enough to send me samples so I can test with them. Could not find any saml21e18 or samw25xxx on Aliexpress.

[scalz]

@tbowmo: no, I have not seen atsam at ali.
I was saying that

• 1284p 2.6€ at aliexpress or 7.4€ at digikey for instance.
• atsaml21e18 6.39€ at digikey.

atsaml21 make me curious :) I hope they will lower the price.. When I see at lowpowerlab, there is moteino mega 1284p. I imagine that the next 32bit "move" could be atsaml21 if we compare the price..Something like neutrino but with atsaml21for picopower+radio footprint could be very cool! this is the idea I wanted to do but not enough time..and with a good power supply of course :) With atmel uC, we are rather sure that it will be arduino integrated faster. But there are lot of other promising things in future, so I am a little bit lost for the moment!! when you see esp32 or this LoPy...and I think for basic temp node things, 8bit is better :) but for more advanced cool things, 32bit +picopower...

@GertSanders : very nice board :)

[tbowmo]

@scalz

About 8bit vs 32bit, it depends on price. I would take the cheapest one available.. and it seems that it could be the cortex M0+ family (samd2x / L21 etc.)

if you check mouser prices, 1 pcs. of atmega 328p-au (32pin tqfp) the price is 3.52$ for 1 pcs. While the atmel samd20, also 32pin tqfp, and 32Kb flash (so same amount as in atmega328p) is priced at 2.74$ for 1.

So in this respect the 32bit processor is winning in price. I have not looked at power consumption between the two, but as we are sleeping most of the time anyway, it might be comparable..

[scalz]

@tbowmo, @GertSanders
I wanted to add to mytinycaml board few improvements. And as it is something much more for telemetry, why not add LORA ;) Here my plan:

• keep ulpnode part
• footprint for nrf24||rfm69||rfm95

I have found "standalone" libs for uno/328p but like we said, it is too limited. So I'm looking between 1284p and ATSAML. As I'm in ulpnode land, SAML is pico and SAMD some uA (seems the same thing 328vs328p). Hopefully, they are pincompatible (1 pin differs: vcc instead of io). My dilemma for the moment is:

• I'm trying to keep the same size (50x23) with all on top layer and 805(or 603 max). I want to keep this one handsolderable
• I need to add JTAG (and there is already a big MYSConnector...). Too bad to need an ICE3, I need to find a cheap one.
• I know 1284p, and arm0..not yet. but 1284p is bigger footprint. So I should stop to be afraid lol If I go for arm0, will you be ok to check my arm0 "typical application schem part" ??
  Or maybe do you prefer teamwork? Problem...is I am eagle addict..

[GertSanders]

Personal opinion: go for ATSAM

[GertSanders]

I'm still not fully out of atmega land, and I have a few atmega1284p lying around (in both DIL and SMD versions), so I need to give them a "home".

My arduino adventure started with the intention of building a mobile robot. This dream/project is still on the radar, but my foray into sensors has helped regain knowledge I lost, and I'm still learning new stuff, so the more practical home projects now get precedence over my robot pet project.

Given the cost of a raspberry zero, the idea of a plugin board with the necessary radio's is not so far fetched either. For AC based sensors anyway.

[scalz]

@GertSanders : thx. Like you I have too much mcu in collection and wanted to give a 'home" to my 1284 too :) but I agree with you, and I already know what tbowmo will tell me :laughing: So I will give it a try. I know if I have some trouble there is an awesome community ;)

[Ironbar]

@Oitzu said:

@Ironbar said:

I have not had much luck with the nrf24l01+ pa/lna modules. They only seem to transmit about 300m. I'm going to setup an outdoor test this summer to see if I can get them to transmit further.

Are you getting 1000m out of them?

I've never tried the shielded modules. I didn't even know they existed. I guess I will throw them in the test as well. I will still be highly surprised if I can get 800 meters out either one of them.

Thanks for the info!

I got 1000m on clear line of sight out of them, yes. Its a matter of shielding, clean power supply and correct antenna alignment.

Are you shielding the antennas on both ends to get the 1000m? I'm rebuilding my gateway now so I wonder if it would be worth waiting on a shielded antenna. The shielded antennas I bought say 1300m line of sight.

@Lawrence-Helm said:

I have wondered about putting a solar powered repeater in the middle...

Is doable, but you will probably need to use a rather big solar cell and battery. I'm currently building some nrf24l01+ nodes with 20 watt solar cells. I think i can give some results in about 1 month.

I would be very interested to see this project. My barn is about half way down my driveway at 400m so I may be able to put a repeating node in there. My problem is, I do not have clear line of sight to my mailbox because my property is hilly. I would have to put a antenna on my barn that sticks up in the air 15m and I do not want to do that.

[Oitzu]

@Ironbar said:

Are you shielding the antennas on both ends to get the 1000m? I'm rebuilding my gateway now so I wonder if it would be worth waiting on a shielded antenna. The shielded antennas I bought say 1300m line of sight.

No, i'm shielding the modules itself. The cheap PA/LNA modules are not correctly shielded.
Have a look here to get an idea: http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1877/2-x-nrf24l01-pa-lna-with-rf24_pa_max/14

I would be very interested to see this project. My barn is about half way down my driveway at 400m so I may be able to put a repeating node in there. My problem is, I do not have clear line of sight to my mailbox because my property is hilly. I would have to put a antenna on my barn that sticks up in the air 15m and I do not want to do that.

I will put up some pictures soon. I'm currently debugging 3 build nodes and plan to place them in 1-2 weeks.
Well yeah you probably need repeaters for that. Signals don't propagate that great through ground. ;)

[lafleur]

I remember sometime back someone was working (or talking about) integrating the RadioHead library into MySensor...
so we could have any radio, with Mesh, or Repeater as part of My Sensor...

Is anyone still working on this??

and yes, using low cost, lower power 32 bit processors, is a good move forward....

Oh, just a note, new Moteino are now available with lora rfm95 radios

Thanks

[Oitzu]

@Ironbar http://blog.blackoise.de/2016/02/fixing-your-cheap-nrf24l01-palna-module/

[luisgcu]

hello I made some range test using the LoRa Modules RFM96 (433mhz) , I was able to get data at 5.2miles ( low speed) transmission.
still trying to understand the radioHead libray.. for my test I use the example rf95_reliable_datagram_client.pde
see more details of my test here..RFM96 LoRa
my problem is I am not so advanced when programming arduino in the way to pack data using struct , for example I want to send between nodes the status of 3 or 4 Digital inputs and and at least 2 or 3 internal calculations based on analog inputs.
Anyone could help me with that?

typedef struct{ // this is the data that I would receive from master
bool RDI1; // command for turn on/off an digital ouput
bool RDI2; // command for turn on/off an digital ouput
bool RDI3; // command for turn on/off an digital ouput
bool RDI4; // command for turn on/offf an digital ouput
int RVar1; // value
int RVar2; //value
}
Recdata;
Recdata Rdata;

[scalz]

@tbowmo: hi. I will see if i keep this like a proto or if i do a better one but I wanted to share what I'm checking and panelizing today for fun. i will see what I get from this..and now i'm waiting my t962 to hack it, mine yeah!, so cool my birthday sooner lol, so I'm happy that's why I share ahaha you can say it :)

Inspired from nice adafruit design, sparkfun, yours too ;) I made my version, for my proto needs.
Atsamd20/21E tqfp.
I rerouted and added : protection+filter for usb, different ldo, eeprom, atsha, mysxconnector, lora or nrf, antenna pad or connector, ws2812b. Programming pads for pogopins on bottom. everything is on top. i'm thinking to put a jumper to use for another purpose usb datalines. it is a lipo charger version so usb connector should stay I guess, at least for power??? i will certainly make small mux changes.
Size 2.4x5.5cm, 0603, 2layer
daughter boards : 2.4x4.2cm (max)
So on a 5x10 (cheap) , I will have two atsam + two daughter boards.

In the picture :
With nrf, simple but fun actuator : with a mems+gesture+rgb led
With LORA, for weather optional sensors : ctn, si7021, bme280, veml6070, opt3001, as3935. it should easily fit in atsam, and because I have them in stock so why not :)
what do you think?

[luisgcu]

@Ironbar I did some test with the nrf24l01 the one that come with the pa + lna amplifier (100mw) and get more than a 1km on LOS.
you may also try the RFM69HW.. the one that has 20dbm output.