Posts made by scalz

Hello,

yes this is possible, here it is
https://www.mysensors.org/apidocs/group__RF24grp.html#gae6a732b8f49a8eb99ef65ae159c65e9c

and you may need to reinit transport layer at some point,
https://www.mysensors.org/apidocs/group__MyTransportgrp.html

https://www.mysensors.org/apidocs/index.html

@skywatch
no idea what you're trying to do, but maybe it would be better to use async/state machine.
why not doing something simple like this:

bool isFooEnabled= false;
loop() {
  if (!isFooEnabled) {
     doMain();
  }
  else {
   doFoo();
  }
}

receive() {
// on your msg, set isFooEnabled to true or false to start/stop doFoo
}

Like this nothing can block, your doFoo() doesn't need a while loop, you could just use if/then with states variables. Then on each arduino loop mysensors message will be processed and receive function called

Hi,

I also think in your case rfm95 or equivalent might be the solution.

About personal xp, I mostly use rfm69 in prod, 868mhz because 433mhz needs bigger antenna, and bigger gnd plane else you don't get the full range that 433 can provide. Note: available freq depends on where you live

I use ATC which sets emission power level from -18 to +13 (for rfm69cw) :

• gw is high power version (rfm69H or rfm95)
• homemade pcbs with optimizations for a good range, of course there are often compromises to do vs design
• rfm69cw (the low power version) and a short range of 10-12m, with 2x rock/concrete walls obstacles, I set ATC RSSI target= -87, and power level is autoadjusted to -11. So it can do a lot more than 10-12m at full power
• rfm69cw at 55m from the GW and it's ok, with many obstacles on the path (7x rock/concrete walls, a part of the roof is metallic, metallic doors etc)

As you can see, it's dependant of many factors as different people get different results.

answered here : https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/11404/rfm69hcw-beginning-of-a-newbie-with-atmega328p

Hi,

if you're new to mysensors and still don't have a network in prod, I would recommend to use the new driver.

example for rfm69cw

#define MY_RADIO_RFM69 
#define MY_RFM69_NEW_DRIVER
#define MY_RFM69_FREQUENCY			RFM69_868MHZ
 #define MY_SIGNAL_REPORT_ENABLED
#define MY_RFM69_ATC_TARGET_RSSI_DBM (-85)
//#define MY_RFM69_ENABLE_ENCRYPTION
//#define MY_DEBUG_VERBOSE_RFM69
//#define MY_RFM69_NETWORKID 110  
#define MY_RFM69_IRQ_PIN 2
#define MY_RFM69_CS_PIN 10

for rfm69H, add this too

#define MY_IS_RFM69HW

https://www.mysensors.org/apidocs/MyConfig_8h.html

you could also show your sketch, and logs so people can help you.

Hi.

I've some boards with TI mcus here (cc1310, cc135x). I started to take a look a few years ago for using MySensors protocol with it. But I miss time for this, and not sure if it's worth the effort to add more arch to MySensors.
Though, this mcu is not arduino compatible unless you use Energia project. It's easier to use with TI CCS ide. Great mcus, sure.

@mfalkvidd
yep I noticed that. I just provided a few feedbacks for his future sketches

@doodoovane
not sure if I get it, but the little sound could be generated by pwm freq.

Note, your last sketch is not ideal:

• don't send msg in receive(). it's better to update a variable, and check this variable in loop() for sending a msg, to avoid recursive call to receive()
• Same for your fading function, it's better to call it from loop(). Receive() should finish as fast as possible.
• don't use delay() in your fading function, it's a blocking function. It's better to do this async, in a non-blocking way, or use wait() as it can process received msg in background .

@KevinT
yes in general subghz radios have better range than 2.4ghz.
I might have farther nodes but for example, I have one rfm69cw at 55m from the GW and it's ok, with many obstacles on the path (7x rock walls, a part of the roof is metallic, metallic doors etc).
This depends on many factors of course

@KevinT
Indeed, that's not very good range.
As a rough comparison (because it can depend on others factors), with rfm69cw and a short range of 10-12m, with 2 bricks walls obstacles, I set ATC RSSI target= -87, and power level is autoadjusted to -11

So, regarding RFM69, for shorter ranges, RFM69W/CW can save power, and for others distances, RFM69H is better choice

I'm glad if I helped you

@KevinT
well, that's strange. Because lot of people experienced communication issues when missing the MY_IS_RFM69HW with RFM69H, very weak range or no comm. It's not about the library, it's about the module itself and its hardware implementation.

of course MY_RADIO_RFM69 is mandatory

do you get a usable range when using RFM69H as a RFM69W? As good as a RFM69W??

Here you can see PA0 is connected to RFIO pin which also handles the LNA, and PA1/2 to PA_BOOST pin

Here is how RFM69W works, it's just connected to RFIO, for PA0 and LNA

And, this is how RFM69H works. There is a RF Switch, which is controlled by the rxtx pin. So, in TX mode it uses PA_BOOST (PA1/2), and in RX mode it uses RFIO for LNA.

Note: all the tuning passives on both modules, on TX path, for tuning filtering etc.

So if you don't use the MY_IS_RFM69HW with a RFM69H, to only use PA0, then I doubt you can get same range as RFM69W.

Finally, I woud usually recommand to use MY_IS_RFM69HW if using RFM69HW/HCW and let ATC feature handles power level, or use a RFM69W/CW (with ATC too of course)

Here a few links which also explain this, but you can find more infos aboutthis on internet:
https://andrehessling.de/2015/02/07/figuring-out-the-power-level-settings-of-hoperfs-rfm69-hwhcw-modules/
https://lowpowerlab.com/forum/rf-range-antennas-rfm69-library/standardise-mote-configuration-using-rfm69hw-only/

@KevinT
afaik you cannot use RFM69H without enabling MY_IS_RFM69HW, else there will be no rf output. So you can't use RFM69HW as a W module.

@Dirk_H

• old driver is based on an old lowpowerlab lib version
• new driver has been refactored and optimized. It's not compatible with old driver. Which means it should be deployed on gw and all nodes

About new driver:

• more features like : automatic power level control so it does not use more rf power than needed
• unified driver with Lora modules so they can communicate with rfm69 (rfm95<->rfm69 for example)
• handles SPI transaction so it should be compatible with HW SPI+W5100
• memory and speed optimizations
• etc

I don't know if it still works, but I tried (years ago) Nano gw + W5100 + RFM69 + HW SPI, and it was ok. No time for the moment to re-test it unfortunately (I don't use this setup in prod).

That said if you got it working with new driver, that's what I would use for sure

@NeverDie
I agree too. I don't think a Lora module is overkill, it has interesting features. it just depends on project criteria, there are also commercial products using rfm69.

A nice setup is using rfm95/Lora module on gw, then you can use rfm69 and rfm95/Lora modules for nodes depending on requirements.

I don't need to mention antenna tuning etc for diy nodes, but it's good to remember, software needs to be compliant too with regulations.
MySensors lets that freedom to users, so nothing prevents them to use too high power levels, or flood a rf band, break duty cycle, and become an outlaw..

Still, there are basic mechanisms in MySensors, available only for rfm69/95, like:

• listen before send, for free channel
• automatic power control for better battery lifetime, and greener communication which dials down TX power to very low levels. But it requires to use new rfm69/95 driver.

Enjoy

@keithJ
it sounds like you have a problem with IRQ mapping. If bad irq mapping, then no irq is triggered and it can't receive any reply.

it could be your RFM69_INT define, which is not a MySensors define afaik. So I guess it uses MySensors default mapping

Instead, try to use this define : MY_RFM69_IRQ_PIN

You don't need to handle rst pin in before(), as MySensors driver already does it when it's defined.

I use new rfm69 driver (different than lowpowerlab driver), and no problem, even when modules are close on same desk. In that case, TX power level will auto adjust to use as less power as possible.

yes, rf module directly connected to rpi is not ideal, as rpi doesn't provide a very clean RF power source.

@NeverDie
lora modules are more expensive. You can find rfm69 for 1.8€ shipping included which work great and they are widely available compared to some lora modules.
I think it depends on projects goals.
But I agree with your points of course

@BearWithBeard nice pic, could be added to the radio guide, sure

well, the thing to remember when you don't have any pic, is H (High power version) require more IC for RF because of the power amplifier whereas non-H (low power version) only has passives parts (res, capa etc).
And on non-C version (HW and W), there are pads close to the crystal.

@projectMarvin said in Second setup, choosing a radio:

I'm currently in China, 915 and 868 are not legal here

oki!

Yes there are some, but even on aliexpress when you look at the sales numbers you will see that basically no one are buying the rfm69w/hw and quite few are selling them.

Still it's available for ordering. I prefer using HCW and CW because they have a more compact footprint. but I ordered HW/W in the past on aliexpress too, no problem. works the same, only the pinout changes.

Really? How does this work? Do you reprogram them?
Considering they are different size, different number of pins and have the pins in different positions.

Nope. RFM69HCW and RFM95 have same size and mapping, you can take a look in datasheets. Note: only HCW variant is compatible.

Does is also work with rfm69 <-> rfm96 & rfm98? (96/98 are 433 MHz )
If so this would be really interesting solution.

Unfortunately, we test what we have in stock and use, so I've no idea about those 433mhz modules..maybe yes in theory, but I've never tried this setup.

@NeverDie you're right it was probably SiP.

@NeverDie
There are others soc with LORA integrated, often with tiny footprints.

I agree about nrf and bitrate. I have bt840xe on one of my gw, not sure if I would use one on a coincell node
I mean nrf52840+external frontend is almost same rf power output as rfm69 at 13dB which would be a lot for a coincell, but rfm69 has better penetration and no potential coexistence problem with other protocol if using mysensors. Well, we are talking about differents beasts, depends on the usecase, there are pros&cons in both I think.

Here, I'm quite happy with my cheap rfm69 modules, I get a very nice range, I don't need any repeater (a bit more than 2acres area, with nodes in different buildings and thick rock walls, metals obstacles etc).

@alowhum
it could work. voltage drop mostly depends on the load, wire size, voltage source and cable length. You could also use ethernet cable, it's quite cheap and shielded, and you could use pair of wires for power etc. This might reduce a lot the voltage drop if it's an issue.
you can find voltage drop calculator on google.
Be careful, some cheap arduino have cheap/fake 12v ldo, which can heat and die when running on 12v after a while

@projectMarvin
why can't you use other freq than 433?

• Even if rfm69 is not very new, there are lot of choices on aliexpress for cheap with different variants( freq and footprints). RFM69 works great for longer range vs nrf24/52.

• RFM69HCW variant is footprint compatible with RFM95W.

• MySensors new driver is RFM69<->RFM95 communication compatible

• RFM95 is more expensive, a bit more power efficient (especially in RX mode, but so far there is no listenmode in MySensors, so that's not a big detail)

About the sensebender gw, I have one but actually I use my own gw designs (because I can). But I don't think SAMD mcu is "obsolete" for a good gw

Personally I prefer an external gw (Serial or ethernet), than radio module directly connected to rpi.

For the moment, afaik, MySensors plan is still the same, and might remain the same for quite a while I think: arduino, nrf24, rfm69/95.
We (me especially) wanted to add others newer soc for subghz (like TI's) but it's not worth the effort, I'm too busy for supporting this.
So it's easier for the team to support what we use.

@Thomas433
indeed it is not synonymous. you can also find rfm69 868mhz or 915mhz depending on which region you live. (868 for EU, and 915 for USA for example). I personnaly use 868mhz because range is good enough for me, requires a smaller antenna and ground plane than 433 (lower freq bigger gnd plane, antenna performance and radiation dependant of gnd plane size which is a part of the antenna, if monopole/coil is used).
But 433 has better penetration than 868 which in turn is better than 2.4ghz.

it's probably a stepup for newcomers, and certainly a late stepup like others said.
Well, I'm very glad with my favorites IDEs, so I'm not interested in it too, even for testing.
One of my top priority when choosing an IDE (like any other tool) is productivity, no matter where the tool comes from. Privacy is important too of course, but not a problem with IDEs.
So I'm fond of Jetbrains, VS and VS Code, and a few free-to-use mcu manufacturers IDE for best xp

Hi.

the radio modules you linked are not rfm69, nor compatible.
Yes, you need to buy rfm69 modules. You can easily find them on aliexpress.

Thx for reporting obsolete link.

@projectMarvin
indeed nrf52 + mysensors fota is not officially supported.
When I tried fota, I used nordic/Adafruit (secure) bootloader and derived it (because we used adafruit core + mysensors).
That was a while ago.. but actually I prefer and need subghz.
Unfortunately I'm working on others fun projects so I don't have time to work on nrf5 for the moment.

Sure using mobile app for fota is not convenient. better code a server-side app, micro service, for this task.

@wiredfrank
in your gw sketch, your defines should be like this:

#define MY_RADIO_RFM69
#define MY_RFM69_NEW_DRIVER
#define MY_RFM69_FREQUENCY RFM69_433MHZ // Set your frequency here
#define MY_IS_RFM69HW // Omit if your RFM is not "H"
#define MY_RFM69_IRQ_PIN D1
#define MY_RFM69_IRQ_NUM MY_RFM69_IRQ_PIN
#define MY_RFM69_CS_PIN D8 // NSS. Use MY_RFM69_SPI_CS for older versions (before 2.2.0)

and there is the RFM69_RFM95_ATC_SignalReport.ino sketch for your node, in mysensors examples

/*
 * The MySensors Arduino library handles the wireless radio link and protocol
 * between your home built sensors/actuators and HA controller of choice.
 * The sensors forms a self healing radio network with optional repeaters. Each
 * repeater and gateway builds a routing tables in EEPROM which keeps track of the
 * network topology allowing messages to be routed to nodes.
 *
 * Created by Henrik Ekblad <henrik.ekblad@mysensors.org>
 * Copyright (C) 2013-2019 Sensnology AB
 * Full contributor list: https://github.com/mysensors/MySensors/graphs/contributors
 *
 * Documentation: http://www.mysensors.org
 * Support Forum: http://forum.mysensors.org
 *
 * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
 * modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
 * version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation.
 *
 *******************************
 *
 * REVISION HISTORY
 * Version 1.0 - tekka
 *
 * DESCRIPTION
 * ATC mode settings and signal report functions, on RFM69 and RFM95 nodes
 *
 */

// Enable debug prints
#define MY_DEBUG

// Enable and select radio type attached

// RFM69
#define MY_RADIO_RFM69
#define MY_RFM69_NEW_DRIVER   // ATC on RFM69 works only with the new driver (not compatible with old=default driver)
#define MY_RFM69_FREQUENCY RFM69_433MHZ
//#define MY_RFM69_ATC_TARGET_RSSI_DBM (-70)  // target RSSI -70dBm
//#define MY_RFM69_MAX_POWER_LEVEL_DBM (10)   // max. TX power 10dBm = 10mW

// RFM95
//#define MY_RADIO_RFM95
//#define MY_RFM95_ATC_TARGET_RSSI_DBM (-70)  // target RSSI -70dBm
//#define MY_RFM95_MAX_POWER_LEVEL_DBM (10)   // max. TX power 10dBm = 10mW

#include <MySensors.h>

// ID of the sensor child
#define CHILD_ID_UPLINK_QUALITY (0)
#define CHILD_ID_TX_LEVEL       (1)
#define CHILD_ID_TX_PERCENT     (2)
#define CHILD_ID_TX_RSSI        (3)
#define CHILD_ID_RX_RSSI        (4)
#define CHILD_ID_TX_SNR         (5)
#define CHILD_ID_RX_SNR         (6)


// Initialize general message
MyMessage msgTxRSSI(CHILD_ID_TX_RSSI, V_CUSTOM);
MyMessage msgRxRSSI(CHILD_ID_RX_RSSI, V_CUSTOM);
MyMessage msgTxSNR(CHILD_ID_TX_SNR, V_CUSTOM);
MyMessage msgRxSNR(CHILD_ID_RX_SNR, V_CUSTOM);
MyMessage msgTxLevel(CHILD_ID_TX_LEVEL, V_CUSTOM);
MyMessage msgTxPercent(CHILD_ID_TX_PERCENT, V_CUSTOM);
MyMessage msgUplinkQuality(CHILD_ID_UPLINK_QUALITY, V_CUSTOM);

void setup()
{
}


void presentation()
{
	// Send the sketch version information to the gateway and controller
	sendSketchInfo("ATC", "1.0");

	// Register all sensors to gw (they will be created as child devices)
	present(CHILD_ID_UPLINK_QUALITY, S_CUSTOM, "UPLINK QUALITY RSSI");
	//present(CHILD_ID_TX_LEVEL, S_CUSTOM, "TX LEVEL DBM");
	//present(CHILD_ID_TX_PERCENT, S_CUSTOM, "TX LEVEL PERCENT");
	//present(CHILD_ID_TX_RSSI, S_CUSTOM, "TX RSSI");
	//present(CHILD_ID_RX_RSSI, S_CUSTOM, "RX RSSI");
	//present(CHILD_ID_TX_SNR, S_CUSTOM, "TX SNR");
	//present(CHILD_ID_RX_SNR, S_CUSTOM, "RX SNR");
}

void loop()
{
	// send messages to GW
	send(msgUplinkQuality.set(transportGetSignalReport(SR_UPLINK_QUALITY)));
	//send(msgTxLevel.set(transportGetSignalReport(SR_TX_POWER_LEVEL)));
	//send(msgTxPercent.set(transportGetSignalReport(SR_TX_POWER_PERCENT)));
	// retrieve RSSI / SNR reports from incoming ACK
	//send(msgTxRSSI.set(transportGetSignalReport(SR_TX_RSSI)));
	//send(msgRxRSSI.set(transportGetSignalReport(SR_RX_RSSI)));
	//send(msgTxSNR.set(transportGetSignalReport(SR_TX_SNR)));
	//send(msgRxSNR.set(transportGetSignalReport(SR_RX_SNR)));
    Serial.print("UPLINK QUALITY RSSI=");
    Serial.println(transportInternalToRSSI(_transportSM.uplinkQualityRSSI)); // UPLINK QUALITY RSSI
Serial.print("TX LEVEL DBM=");    
Serial.println(transportGetTxPowerLevel());  //TX LEVEL DBM
Serial.print("TX LEVEL PERCENT="); 
    Serial.println(transportGetTxPowerPercent());  // TX LEVEL PERCENT
Serial.print("RX RSSI=");
    Serial.println(transportGetReceivingRSSI());  //RX RSSI
Serial.print("TX RSSI=");
    Serial.println(transportGetSendingRSSI());    //TX RSSI

	// wait a bit
	wait(5000);
}

This is in case your modules are 433mhz. Try with a straight wire (one core), with the right length. You can also reduce some length by small bits and see if it improves.
Good to know is 433mhz requires longer antenna, and bigger gnd plane for better results, compared to upper freq like 866mhz etc.
A last solution if the gnd plane size would be the culprit could be to use a dipole antenna for test. by connecting two opposite wires. one to ant, the other to gnd close to ant

You should be able to get more than nrf24 or some nrf52, easily
I don't think you need rfm95 but that depends on the range you really need. that said some lora modules are maybe a bit more power efficient (more recent tech). but I think it's a detail for your usecase

Can't help you on esp8266 pin mapping, I don't use it as gw (I've esp32, nrf52 and samd as gateways for prod and dev)

Note: the new rfm driver has compatible communication for rfm69<->rfm95. Like others said, for using new driver, you need to enable it on both ends (gw+nodes) because it uses a different packet format than old driver.

@Sasquatch
I admit I never checked that, but thought the capa would probably be there.
well, I usually am careful so I add more footprints than needed for flexibilty, just in case

@hlehoux perhaps do you have some arduino mini pro (8mhz 3v) that you could use as a test node and check if you still have same problem (in case this is an IRQ issue..) ?

@Sasquatch
yes rfm modules are nice for long range.
ok. we will re-test OTA+new driver on my new board soon, and will keep you updated

I agree seems OP has setup problem, could be

• H vs non-H define
• IRQ is not triggering for receiving msg
• weak GND counterpoise for antenna,
• power supply. For power I usually use 100uf+0.1uf close to the module. 100uf when it's batt powered (for coincell, I like to have two big capa+0.1uf), else it's possible to use a smaller value like 33-47uf

@electrik
in logs, RFM69:CSMA:RSSI=-104 is the noise floor
and RFM69_TARGET_RSSI_DBM define the rssi you want to have for your node.

so if you have a noise floor of -100, you could adjust your target to -85 or less. But maybe you could get a few retries with -90 target.

rfm69 power level can be adjusted from -18 to +13db. 13db=100% power= 45mA power consumption.

for example, let's say your target is -70, and your power level has been autoadjusted to +5.
then if you set, the target to -80 or less, power level will decrease to maybe -8 or even less, it depends on your environment and your build.
And vice versa, if you set target to -50, ATC will set a higher power level.

ATC is used to auto-adjust radio power level consumption for battery nodes, so they use only energy they need. This also make your rf environment "greener". No nodes sending loud messages if not needed.

Another example, I recently designed a new node. Noise floor here is around -98db.
With a target of -70 if I remember, power level was autoadjusted to +5db.
After adjusting target to -87db, power level has decreased to -11db, which equals to 20% power.
And there are no NACK nor retries.
So this node now requires less energy for sending messages and that will save battery.
This is for an indoor node, 10m distance with 2 brick walls obstacles.

old driver doesn't have ATC management. I've no problem so far with new driver.

I guess H would mean High power version. But to be sure, yuo just have to google for rfm69 pics and you'll see which version you have. Existing versions are : RFM69HW, RFM69W, RFM69HCW, RFM69CW

@hlehoux
unfortunately, lot of devboards have non-optimized gnd plane for RF, especially for subghz (small or splitted gnd plane by routes..).
Moreover, devboard+dupont cable+external rf module is not ideal.
With rfm69, you should get a nice range.
Though, why on one of your picture, antenna seems shorted to gnd??
Imho I would have chosen something else than esp8266 (esp32??) in your case, but your choice

To check if this is related to your gnd plane and your build is ok, you could also try to hook two straight wires as a dipole antenna to your radio (one to ANA, the other to GND in opposite direction will replace a ground plane). Google for examples, it's simple to try

Hello,
you could :

• use attachinterrupt function for your interrupt, and a boolean for your state
• and in loop(), instead of wait(), make your code async with a state machine

https://www.arduino.cc/reference/en/language/functions/external-interrupts/attachinterrupt/
https://learn.adafruit.com/multi-tasking-the-arduino-part-1/using-millis-for-timing

I don't know exactly why you want to use wait(), but I hope this will help

@alex28 yes exactly, it may look exagerated but this is how it works. Same if you would replace the original wifi antenna on a commercial product. Like I said many times above, development boards (like OP design) can maybe fit in the "subassemblies" group, so mostly for development purposes only. CE is less strict regarding the process.
That's a while I looked at this, way before debating..Personally, I completely don't mind what people do, that's not my business. I just mentioned regulations as infos for those who are interested to know more. that's all.

more links here:
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/398
https://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?t=113747

@alex28 my limited english meant manufacturers docs are to be taken with a pinch of salt. Of course, I agree, with regulation it's black or white
My logic is if manufacturer doc said your device is certified because you're using a pre-certified module, and you broke the precertification in device design, then it's not certified anymore. Simple logical AND, binary black and white.
If you tell me that your device with a precertified module is certified, I would ask you "do you have the certification paper of your device". If no, "do you have the tests results proving what you're saying?". No? So you didn't check it, it's not certified, it's just words
of course it depends of the type of design, and like I said I don't mind about these details, it just makes sense to me

@alex28
yes, but when you design a board it's very rare to follow application notes to the letter, because you want a different size of board etc. But I agree about the pre certified module which help a lot for selling hw.I'm just saying there are nuances, it's not a big YES or NO. This depends what components are on the final board, most of the time it may just affect range, or worse introduce noise through power supply, signals lines etc. To check that you can use rf spectrum analyzer, scope..

You can have a very good module, but make a crappy design with it. So it all depends on the designer. That's just what I meant. I don't want to debate on this, really.
When I design boards, I don't certify them, I just to try do my best and put constraints on myself regarding the final design I want (filtering if needed, not splitting gnd planes for Rf perf, and lot of others details etc). On other side, I've seen lot of bad designs on different stuff on aliexpress, and not talking about soldering quality. This needs trained eyes.

some "funny" stories, for diy-ers
https://hackaday.com/2019/05/15/the-great-ohio-key-fob-mystery-or-honey-i-jammed-the-neighborhood/
https://hackaday.com/2016/08/26/police-baffled-send-for-the-radio-amateurs/

so for example, pick a powerful amplified LORA module on 433mhz for example, add an untuned antenna (lot of them on aliexpress), use bad power supply and some others stuff providing parasites, dupont cables, use unregulated max TX power, custom fw with no check before sending (listen for free channel), unlimited number of msg per sec etc and it could be a good example of a crappy device.

@alex28
I'm not saying we need to certify our homemade devices.
Personnally I don't mind, but just try to make my devices with those constraints in mind.
Certification also depends on firmware, on RF bands etc (CSMA, etc to not spam bands for subghz for example).
Change some characterictics of pcb, gnd size etc, and it can untune center frequency of antenna for sure. Lot of examples in app notes.
Though, from what you read, you can see the "host manufacturer is responsible", and should check by doing tests if it's compliant with his new design. That's what I read.

Like I said, I'm pretty sure OP design is not certified, and maybe not even RF tuned.
But as a development board, it's not a very big problem.
And low range nrf24 is less problematic for regulations, than using a subghz module with untuned antenna (change gnd size, and you have to shorten or add length to antenna, else centerfreq is shifted), with a wrong fw spamming the band, unregulated TX power, or also when you add to the design some AC, relays etc which could introduce some noise (bad SNR etc) , like we can see sometimes in diy, + dupont cables which can acts like antennas too.

@alex28 I agree with you about the "stupid" obsession of getting the cheaper stuff with low quality.

@Phil-Whitmarsh you're confounding mini-Pro design (like the OP did) and nano design. RF-Nano is not a low power board

About RF, this is simple actually, like tbowmo said RF certification (CE/FCC for example) depends on a design.
That means module manufacturers certified their module for a very specific setup:

• gnd size, shape of the board and layout, placement of the module, enclosure or not, etc
• software used during the certification

So as soon as you change one of these params, you'll lose RF certification because RF characteristics will change. Simple as that. Of course, if new design is compatible, it should be straitghtforward to re-certify the new design.

Development boards (like the OP did) are in a "grey zone", regarding certifications, so for developments purposes.

FCC is more strict than CE. With CE, you can easily certify your board if you're able to provide the documents and proof that your board is RF "green" (no bad harmonics etc) , well tuned, and that the firmware is compliant too.
No idea if the OP tuned his board, or just used parts values from a reference schematic. But to me this looks like a development board with no guarantee for RF perf.

no. bluetooth is not secured by default. you need to handle this in your ble fw

technically yes this is possible by using:

• custom BLE msg, depends on payload length, and longer payload can be enabled
• BLE Serial service

but afaik there is no plan for adding and maintaining this for the moment

@BearWithBeard
thank you for your investigations
yes, this is problably a timing issue. this will be fixed asap

@alex28 @mhkid
I just meant what I thought.
I like to find solution by myself too. Like you it's super rare that I ask for help. But, I'm also an impatient guy, very impatient, I hate being stuck during a rush etc. I always feel getting stuck more than one day is like wasting time and money, don't you think. Still it happened more than once to me, of course. That's funny I'm saying that, as I actually I'm working in research field

This is why I said you shouldn't have hesitated to ask community for help, lot of kind people here.

@alex28 said in Started with MySensors and about to give up (some feedback):

In fact, the cheaper component price was not the reason that made me consider MySensors in the first place. The open nature of the platform was. I'm perfectly fine with paying more for solid and reliable hardware. I think that is also an important point to keep in mind. As far as I see it, this open and community driven aspect is the greatest strength of MySensors. While the cheap component aspect is certainly important for many people, it can also lead to a lot of problems due to counterfeit low quality HW.

I completely agree, that's why I trusted in MySensors years ago.
And supporting low quality, and too many platform, is pita, especially when you just have very little spare time, all of that for free of course. That's why we trust in community to help us.

About my own xp, I got success the first time I got started with MySensors+rf24Serial gw.
But it was just a quick test, as my first goal was to use rfm69. No one told me rfm69 was superior to rf24, to me it just made sense.

I'm in favor of serial gw actually because I think it's :

• more "simple"
• secure. Just a serial connection. no tcp connection etc
• reliable. doesn't rely on an OS to run the network, and stronger against noise in radio which could be introduced by rpi for example, when power supply is not polished, filtered, decoupled etc. No one said that in the docs, I know, it's certainly missing infos. It's just, imo, from personal xp.

That said, we have heard your wish about improving docs, and providing hw with trusted howtos (we have some good hw designs, for gw or nodes, with variable bom cost).
Thank you for your feedbacks

Hello,
@mhkid @alex28
That's too bad that you never asked for help (except mhkid, one time) while you were so many times in a dead end.. some waste of time, I completely agree with you. Don't be shy
Actually I'm a dev too, high or low or blackbelt level doesn't matter, but what I know very well is that I like to fix problems by myself, I rarely ask for help too. But the truth is when someone can save me some time, my precious spare time, I'm always very glad to find him.

@alex28 that's good to hear that perhaps you found another framework which can fit your need. I really hope and wish you success, especially if it costs 50€ per devboard.

This is quite interesting actually, now I wonder about something..

To people:
if we would sell boards for 50€, eg on mainsite "Store" page, with MySensors howtos and high success rate, would you really buy it?
or would you still try to use what you have left in your drawers?

If so, it's maybe possible to make your dream become true.
Of course, high rate of success would only apply to these kits

Note: to any newcomer reading this topic, regarding the "don't know where to buy genuine nrf24", you can find links on mainsite, "Store page", for some recommended modules. And don't forget those decoupling capacitors

hello @TruiteCendrée

yes this is possible with nrf52840, but unfortunately zigbee is not compatible with mysensors. Mysensors is a software stack like zigbee is.

I think you'll get more infos if you take a look on nordic semi forums. They have a zigbee stack for nrf52840.

@Sergio-Rius
sure these are good points. especially country regulations
That said this needs some research, personally I don't know rules for all countries & frequencies.
In that case, we should also mention that anyone making&selling his board/device with a rf module is maybe out of the rules without fcc/ce certifications. So many things to say on regulations, you're right.

The trickier point is docs for all possible usecases. There are so many different combo. I don't know if educating and covering "all" electronics possibilities, arduino coding, handling third parties libs etc, is the goal of a software framework here, I don't know exactly the original goals.

"If I was in charge and alone for all this work" (personal point of view), I would remove from howtos all things that I don't use, and would let this stuff live in the community hands, on the forum for example.
Like I said, supporting/maintaining/documenting stuff that you don't use, for free, in spare time, is pita.
Franlky, there are many platforms+mysensors that we don't even use. It has been added to the framework, mostly because it's fun to learn/discover new platforms etc, not because of an urgent need at home.

The problem is the more you show&provide, the more users may want and expect, whereas we hope it will be community driven.
It's like you provide for free young plants to someone, and he expects you'll always feed&water it

Unfortunately, regarding documenting the stuff I don't use, I've no time for the moment..busy on other projects, hobby in my spare time must be fun.

I hope we'll find a way to improve docs so it's 100% success each time someone new get started. Hopefully I think there are lot of people who already got success with MySensors and helping on the forum

Hi there,

so far the main "culprits" I identified are:

• add a picture of a genuine nrf24 module (eg cdebyte) near the cheapo nrf24, and why not a rfm69/95 module too, in the Getting Started/Component/Radio
• add a comparison of pros/cons of nrf24 vs rfm69 in Build/Connect radio, before the wirings
• remove en28j60 from doc, and keeps only w5x00. Let the community handle en28j60 if this is really needed. I don't think anyone in the team is using en28j60 for gw. The fact it's not uncommon in rpi community, doesn't mean it's common in mysensors community (more based on arduino than rpi)
• update store links and try to remove cheapo nrf24 clones
• rpi section

else I don't see so many outdated infos.

Regarding howto connect a controller to mysensors, I've no idea if this should be on mainsite. As controller choice is very subjective. For example, I've already tried Openhab and others, even HomeAssistant for months too (imho having to configure yaml etc is not noob friendly, I couldn't recommend that to noobs and non-computer people, same for nodered as automations tool ) and I still prefer Jeedom..

Other notes:

• it's hard for the team to support and guarantee what we do not use.. regarding all the options available in MySensors (gw, hw platforms..). Example: I'm not sure, but I think rpi as gw is not widely used in the team for example.
• a reproducible howto get started, with 100% success, would be nice sure.
  Still it's important to remember that will always need to learn new skills in mid-longterm. Not because you're a dev, that you know electronics, rf recommendations, the framework etc
  It's hard to follow and compile all forums infos in one place, with limited resources. This would need a book!
• I'm also in favor of subghz but I can understand it's maybe less plug&play for noobs. I also think when you want to get started, it's easier to get success with Serial GW.

@mtiutiu
congrats
I'm curious, are you happy with range (I noticed you changed a bit the rf reference design routing).
I guess you use BLE mesh regarding average power consumption (which should improve range too), so rfm69+mysensors is maybe too power hungry?
Well, I think I'll try to assemble a few of your boards, this might be the first design I try here
thx for sharing, I can imagine it was lot of work and time.

@NeverDie depends on who's old. Here in FR, yesterday, 38% of people in reanimation are <60years old. Being in reanimation, means people may also have future health consequences=money cost too.
Sadly, there are also doctors who died, infected nurses and firemen.. each day seems worse. with confinement, peak is coming very soon here I think.
Citing a french doctor: "when there is fire, you shouldn't look at the water bill"

@BearWithBeard I already got flaky 328p, a long time ago when I started with MySensors. And I decided to never buy my mcus from "unreliable" source. Especially now as I'm using advanced mcus.
I never digged what was the exact problem because I thought it was just waste of my time compared to original price. And it already wasted my time because I was searching if fault was on my side..
So I can't tell you why, but counterfeit, or out of specs, is not worth it for prod.
Sure is, reliable source always worked for me.

@NeverDie
I guess here (FR), it's quite like in others countries.. very sad.
Shutdown for two weeks at least, borders closed for 30d. Going out without a paper=penalty (130€).
Military deployed to help overwhelmed hospitals (especially in East which is epicenter here), "hopefully" I live in West. Hospitals missing protection, intubators etc..
We're a "small" country, with good healthcare, hopefully for sick people. Still It doesn't touch only old persons, there are reports of 25-40years old people deaths too.
Today, deaths have doubled here.

Personnaly, I started to limit my visits when it started in China, because I never trust when someone tells me the big cloud stopped at the borders, and didn't want to get caught and transmit to people I love..
I think govs should all have taken decisions when it started instead of waiting "will I get the flu or not??" And here we are now ..

Well, it's very sad. Praying for sick people, doctors, nurses who are on the frontline. I hope a lab will find the remedy soon.

And I hope it'll be fine for you and your family too.

@Jason-Rennie
sure, but you didn't mention the whole thing, I also prefer subghz
cr2032 is limited, so without extras capacitors = possible brownouts + you won't get full lifetime because of its internal resistance (when power consumption >5ma generally) . even a short burst can reset your mcu (brownout)
like 100-300uf to handle H version of rfm modules, I usually place a few close to batt and rf module
also forget bad coincell brands, not good at all for lifetime.
for a commercial product, I wouldn't recommend to remove brownout protection, nor watchdog too, for saving power.

I didn't know about listenmode. when I tried it worked, but this was experimental, never used it in prod.
-> custom fw with rtc and sync. simple

@Jason-Rennie unfortunately as you guessed MySensors is not really tailored for this task, so
as you don't have lot of nodes involved, perhaps it's easier to start your sw from scratch with a more simple lib+rtc, or some true mesh framework with low power capabilities if there is one available (MySensors is star network).
I guess BLE 5 long range+beacon doesn't fit your project??
imho, I think I would do my own sw, if it's just for 2-3 nodes, and sync them, perhaps easier for sw maintenance. For MySensors, we need to take care of a lot more usecases..
Long time ago, I tested rfm69 listenmode from lowpowerlab, maybe it can help you getting started.
cr2032 can be tricky, don't forget capa buffering, but that's another topic

@Jason-Rennie maybe if you give us more info on your usecase/project archi, we could help you. I think a sleeping gw is not very common.

@Jason-Rennie said in Serial gateway running on coin cells. Needs to sleep:

I think it would be better if the mysensors gateways could establish a time schedule with their nodes to allow both sides to sleep.

This is overkill for me because my system has only 1 node. But its something you might find easy to implement. I'm not sure how your system is structured.

I started to take a look at this a while ago (I wanted to try freq hop etc), but it was just tests and unfinished work, too busy to get back on this even if it's very interesting and challenge to do.. I think you don't get the implications of this. Of course it's "easy" to imagine timeslots

for a few nodes, it's not really hard, but for a whole network there are lot of things to take care.

• hardware: this needs precise clock on all devices. That's something most of MySensors users do not have, for example some use unprecise internal rtc (just an example about hw). If no precise clock, then when using lot of nodes, there will be drift in time, packets collision etc and packet delivery will become unreliable, unresponsive network.
• software. retrocompatibility is just another example. also using a better mcu (than 328p) + rtos can help managing stuff.
• etc

without retrocompatibility in mind, and by starting from scratch, it's for sure "easier" but you might hit some rocks as network grows. And, still, you will need to sync your nodes, even more important if not using a precise clock, as the wider the listening timeslot is, the more energy you'll use.

MySensors archi is gw/concentrator always ON (like many others commercial stacks though), only ONE channel communication, where availability of channel is checked with CSMA+random time+retries for preventing collisions.

there are lot of researchs about different methods like TDMA etc on internet, you'll see it's not that easy if you want more than just a few nodes

@mfalkvidd yes, hard to imagine exactly what he wants to achieve (he asked for a sleeping gw). else it's just peer2peer/node2node comm, a few people used it in the forum if I remember.

else maybe it could be easier, just using a more "simple" lib for this simple case, like radiohead etc for example

@Jason-Rennie how would you control your network from says a controller, if serial gw is sleeping? as to get power consumption down, you also need to shutdown serial hw peripheral in mcu.

@antlomb
Hello,
there are no other available RF options except RFMs and NRF in MySensors so far.
MySensors is its own RF stack. So, it's different from others RF stack like zigbee, zwave etc.

@Mishka bah no shame, enthousiasm is good thing

@Mishka I meant nrf52840 does not do LTE/NB-IOT. 52840 is used as controller/bridge to bluetooth (14km range isn't for bluetooth). but yes their NB-IOT sip looks nice

@Mishka said in Everything nRF52840:

In a meanwhile, here is the nRF52840 range test with Johanson 2450AT18D0100 chip-antenna and SAFFB2G45MA0F0A 1dB attenuator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_0OAlTcuY (spoiler - 14 km).

typo?? from the video, it seems to be nRF9160

@alowhum oki.
well I've no time to take a look, and not really a fan of softwareserial.. I just noticed the inversion in your 1st post
So I guess you have few options if you can't find the solution:

• change in lib (define, or constructor)
• handle your own buffer in your sketch if you don't want to make changes to the lib

not tried, but this should work better with the define before the include

#define _SS_MAX_RX_BUFF 255                         // Override the define to increase the buffer size
#include <SoftwareSerial.h>                                // Load the library code
SoftwareSerial softSerial1(GSM_RECEIVE_PIN,GSM_TRANSMIT_PIN); // Create the software serial object, hopefully with a bigger than normal buffer

@orhanyor I can confirm this pcb antenna works well. I used it with 52832 a while ago. You'll certainly need to tune it to get the exact target freq though, usually to do on each new pcb design&shape (so it's not shifted too much compared to your others nodes), but it's a good antenna, easy to use, resistant to detuning. This is the recommended ant by TI for 2.4ghz.
Here I just have one bt840xe on custom gw (dual band gw, using BLE for 2.4ghz) with good external ant, it has very good range. I didn't design the 52840+PA because I preferred to have ce/fcc for PA, and for one device only, it wasn't worth the shot. For others nodes, I don't need PA, or prefer mysensors subghz for very long range.
For a devboard, this looks nice, but depending on the target application and sensitive sensors etc, maybe adding an rf shield could help in some cases, especially as you're planning to use a power amplifier. Spectrum analyzer (or a vna) can help to check this (bad rf emissions too, passive filtering can help) and optimize range.

good luck for your soldering

@monte I get it. I think this is off topic here, maybe open a new thread if you need to ask people why/when they need to update their systems, reflash their devices etc
( I have edited my previous reply with a few more examples in case it would be more clear)

@monte said in What did you build today (Pictures) ?:

@scalz but why do you need this on an already working node? Mysensors has backward compatibility so far. Do you expect any improvements from updated sensor libraries for a working node? In this case, you of course would need proper FOTA.

I don't think that a major fw release (MySensors in this case) always guarantees full backward compatibility.
Perhaps not for a sensor lib (but who knows), still, if not for any core updates, do you expect any improvements from updated MySensors lib for a working node/network? If no, then you don't need fota
app settings != app/fw update

[edit]
Examples when you may need to flash your fw (wirelessly or with a programming tool):

• it was not possible to have backward compatibility between old and new rfm69 drivers (new driver brought lot of improvements for green rf like adaptive TX power, power consumption etc).
  So it required updating network (gw and all nodes). This can happen eventually for a major release (v2->v3 or v3->v4..), a major release could allow "controlled" breaking change if no other way.
• bugs fixes in MySensors files (core, transport, security..)
• new features updates if needed (in MySensors, or your own sketch), easy to imagine, so many things to improve
• etc

@monte said in What did you build today (Pictures) ?:

@NeverDie I mean, what exactly use scenario for FOTA update of a remote working node? What can you possibly want to change remotely without changing any hardware?

for example arduino core used for the firmware (sdk..), libraries updates (MySensors, sensors), etc

@monte said in Everything nRF52840:

maybe they will initially upgrade to 52840, I don't think it will be that hard, if they haven't produce large batch of this revision.

well, imho switching to nrf52840 won't be a direct upgrade for them. 52840 has more pins, usb etc so not same pcb for sure, then software support (waiting after community for dev too ??). it will certainly be a new watch I think (if they are the designers of the pcb, no idea).
Still, it is cheap for playing with nrf52832 so that's a good point.

regarding the banglejs watch, yes it's too bad they chose a square display (this wastes some space).
I don't have one of these yet, but considering to play with banglejs ecosystem at some point (for watch I would prefer, but that's my preference, to use BLE for more interactions with phone etc).
In that case I will buy one at least (once it's back in stock) for supporting creator and his team.

I have my opinion on hype and long term reality. Both pinetime and banglejs/nodewatch are opensource. You could for example use banglejs framework on any nrf52832 device/watch, with some coding of course (regarding pins mapping, sensors and peripherals), but that didn't look that hard when I looked at the code.

I would prefer a better looking and more compact smartwatch, but for tinkering and playing they both seem fun.

@NeverDie said in Everything nRF52840:

@monte Is PineTime the best of the currently available nRF52 watch options? If so, since it's offered at $24.99, I think I may want to order one.

There is also the BangleJs/NodeWatch (52832) which is bulkier, more expensive too but with more features, than pinetime. Personally when bulky, I prefer a round shape..still it's quite big, and certainly needs care on UI (round shape vs square display).
This is a very nice project for BLE based smartwatch I think, they have done lot of work on software.

@berkseo the webapp was great, but I converted it to native crossplatform app for better versatility&perf, so I can use one app for my devices, like Ethernet for HALO etc, or Serial for my other Janus gw dongle, bluetooth..

To be honest, I've not updated anything yet for a few reasons, like very little spare time for a public release + support for such "big" project. (easier to handle local projects).
Sorry, still no eta for the moment..

or, when you fee comfortable with tinkering, you can build your own, with bigger print area, "nanodlp" SLA printer with cheap 2k lcd from aliex***** (possible to improve air filter and isolation, a lot more easier with less parts than building a corexy etc)

but I totally agree, when you don't need bigger print, buying a ready to use printer is simpler and the smaller lcd are just a little bit more precise

@diltech
glad to hear you found a way.

Just a little note.. this is not a french forum

Nice project

manufacturers datasheets, RF appnotes etc all mention this, with results for different usecases (like gnd plane size etc). I mentioned it a few times on the forum:

• nothing under or near antenna (keep out zone)
• their matching circuit, and CE/FCC certif are based on their development boards+their antenna if external, often without enclosure.
• there are a very few pcb antennas which are resilient to untuning. ceramic or meandered pcb are usually more compact but less resilient (like when you approach your hand and device suddently has better or worst communication)
• once you change any of these parameters (board shape, gnd size, enclosure etc), it breaks FCC, and may need retuning, still you can get useable range.
• "ideally" tuning should be done once enclosed for example. manufacturers can't cover all cases.

on my side, I try to follow these rules. and when interested in a design or a device, I check this. Mainly the routing+gnd, antenna choice, keepout zone, and orientation vs my usecase (long range needed or not for example)

@alowhum
of course, like we usually say, use the "best tool for the job".

I think with old 8bits mcu, and retrocompatibility, we may be kind of stuck to improve interesting points because of variety of hw setup (unprecise clocks etc).

Interested to know, when not using IoT, with no physical access (physical access is not secure by design), how can an advanced SOC (ARM, esp32 which is not ARM but tensilica, etc) using proprietary RF, be unsecure ??

I don't think adding plugins in browsers is enough to secure people, it helps sure. I spent lot of time cleaning friends computers and phones, even with plugins enabled.. when I ask them, why did you click/install again bad stuff, they reply it's certainly their wife or childrens

I wonder how many people without good router/firewall are running their rpi controller directly on their home LAN, without ddos and ssh protection, running unsecured mqtt (for a mysensors gw, or snips etc for example)+many others ethernet devices like camera, audio clients etc for example. all on same network as computers, phones, without good passwords management policy, better have no malware or key logger, "no, don't click on this!"..

@zboblamont
maybe this is some blocking code, I've no clue I've not tried replicating your issue as I'm busy but I have a non updated/optimized sketch, quite old, where I used one ds28b20 in a non blocking way if I remember.

https://github.com/scalz/MySensors-HW/blob/development/RollerShutterNode/FW/MyRollershutter/MyRollershutter.ino#L386

you might just need to use initDS18x20() and temperatureProcess(). I don't think I changed the onewire lib, I'll check later if I remember

I hope that will help

@alowhum
I get your point, but the problem is very often mothers are not able to secure their LAN too
I think private datas are as important as home network security.
any ethernet devices like cameras, voice assistants, ssl, unsecured mqtt etc? if so, how to connect them? on same LAN as home computers, phones, with stock isp router and config? it's the easiest but that's not super secure.

I just meant it's a good idea to isolate HA to main LAN when you want good security (lot of good router/firewall solutions). + SBC's should be secured (ssl when enabled, ddos attacks etc)
this should help for wifi devices attacked from internet. If someone would get into, then lot of chance he would have access to your main LAN too.

About local, security, I know a small agriculture company where I live in country field, who got jammed and robbed, no security alarm triggered. I think they may have got the lesson about going wireless. First time I heard about a jamming attack here but this exists.

And if someone is trying to hack your HA RF with a local sniffer, I would be worried about intrusion in my main wifi network, if not secured too.

I agree with alowhum about wifi for IoT, not a big fan too.
I imagine people may think IoT is an alternative way of controlling their devices, in case of their controller is ko for example..

But, like OP said, you still can change fw so your device only works on a LAN. for some mains powered and cheap devices, I understand it's attractive. not the best for battery powered, sure.

I don't see any big security flaw as soon as your LAN is well secured (but I'm not sysadmin).
This applies to any rpi connected to your LAN though. Many devices can be security holes nowadays (even phones..) in your LAN. So, by well secured network, I mean it's nice to have a dedicated secured network for HA, and of course apply some security checks on devices (with vlan, reverse proxy etc.)

I won't explain here how to ko a mysensors network, but when the HA network is secured I think some local wifi modules are quite secured too. But, then you can't switch your wifi off if you liked to do it.
btw it's never ideal to rely on wireless devices that can be jammed, for home security devices (like strategic lights, cameras, door/motion sensors etc), unless you have a strong and reliable fw.
Sometimes there is no choice

About "noisy" wifi (vs health ??), I'm not sure, but maybe using a few wifi AP instead of one, to reduce RF range needed, would make them use less RF power.

I think adafruit core is nice, and they added freertos which is a nice touch too. So, in case, I can easily reuse some modules I wrote for esp32 projects (which is freertos based too, out of he box)

Good to know, it's not perfect, both cores, nrf5 adafruit or arduino-mbed, unfortunately miss some sdk files..

I like Adafruit core so far, but Segger IDE with full sdk support is very convenient, because spending time in arduino cores linking missing libs etc is such waste of time, vs coding fun features..

@neverdie
afaik BMP officially targets ARM mcus, whereas ESP32 is not ARM, it's Tensilica.

@NeverDie
I don't remember exctly, but voltage requirements for mcu only might be the same (approx). On modules, it can differ, depending on external spiflash&ram voltage requirements.

I thought you were talking about the esp32-s2, announced a few months ago, which has usb and few more IOs for example but it's single core.
the simple S version is maybe used as coprocessor, like on particle boards, if I'm not wrong

@NeverDie
so you haven't played with it yet? then you're missing something

well depends what you need to do, sure, but actually when I need to use a mcu, at work too, I almost always use it. I don't use sleep mode.

that's a while I've used 8bits mcu.. because for ESP32 price:

• dual core,
• you can do all sort of "realtime" stuff, and monitor through wifi,
• for example run complex communication on a core while running another complex main app on the other core, thx to rtos too
• well supported in arduino platfom,
• embed servers, webapps..(or just make an api with a native app for ui and uses spiflash for others things)
• widely available module with multiple options (spiflash ,ram etc) for cheap

I don't know a mcu which meets all these ticks

I've not tried the ESP32S version so far, because I've many non-S here, and if I remember the S is not dualcore, still it adds a few things.

I've almost all what I need with ESP32, only missing a few periph and pins. but there are always workarounds.
And, it's better to choose the solution which fits best to the usecase of course. I'm not saying I would choose it for all my projects.

@nagelc
exactly, you're right! Better memory than me I remember now, I had to hack w5100 lib for spi transactions to make it working on same bus. So I don't know if it has been fixed.. I hope so.

@Sergio-Rius
unfortunaly I can't help with your enc28j60 issue. and I'm not sure to have one for testing this.

A while back, we checked w5100 module + arduino 328p. Eth module and radio were working on same hw spi bus but in docs it uses softspi, I don't remember why, perhaps for having a dedicated spibus for ethernet..
I understand this is not very convenient to find the infos, when always more hw is supported.

Just a note, as you are using a Nano for your tests, RFMs modules are not 5v tolerant in theory, even if they seem to handle it, datasheet says 3.9v for max. good to know. but maybe you're already using a level converter.

@monte
it's not standing against diy'ing etc..really you didn't understand my point, it's just about user friendly and easily repetable getting started for MySensors nrf5 newcomers, for simply flashing their sketch.. even if a diy BMP is certainly a good probe too. and a genuine BMP is more expensive than a jlink mini. Compare both a jlink vs a blank diy probe, and with a stopwatch, you'll see which method is faster and easier for a noob..

But ok, I won't insist anymore, if you prefer to get me wrong, really don't mind.. I should better let user with not much xp manage all alone so no debate, as this just makes me less active, see you next year

Just don't forget future newcomers will read your advices. In the meantime, we'll try to update docs for MySensors nrf5.

Have fun with your probe

@monte said in nRF5 action!:

@scalz well, that's nice that you know what you want and can get it, but that doesn't mean that's suitable for everybody else. That's good to have a choice, but when you need it done, you better find a way to get it done easier and faster.

Why so much impatience So many things to tinker.. I mean you can get a jlink in 2days if you need it. I ordered mine while I was waiting for stuff coming from China..and in my case, there is no close-door store for geeks.
Do you mean you would suggest a nrf5 newcomer to diy a BMP for mcu flashing??

When I got my jlink, I didn't have to flash it to make it working.. I just had to donwload win drivers, install them, and voilà.
Which proprietary sw do you think you need to learn?? I don't use any special sw for flashing..just regular IDEs like arduino/vs studio, or more advanced like Segger (free) or Keil. For all these IDEs, I just click on a button to upload fw, simple. There is nordic windows apps, or nrfjlink in CLI too.

I know the power of oss and its flaws, same for commercial, in practice it's not rare to see communities sitting/waiting for updates (not hard to find examples on github), whereas money makes commercial products live.
No need to debate on this, it's useless debate I think
The reality is different here, I think you'll find more subscriptions-free resources on internet about Jlink than BMP, and for a reason I agree that you'll find lot of howtos save a few bucks by diy-ing and flashing a BMP..
everyone acts in one's own interest
Just to sum up my thought, I think for a newcomer it's easier to get started with a Jlink vs diy probe that you need to flash with what, a probe ??

Below is a screenshot of a running nrf5 test, stability test.. but for example you can see, I don't use any additional uart for debug printing, and fw is just uploaded by a click in IDE.

"BMP is open-source, meaning that you can look inside it if you need or want to"

"The GDB server is implemented on the probe itself, this means we do not use some proprietary protocol to talk to your debugger software"

sounds so useful when you simply want to upload fw and debug
open-source does not mean better quality than proprietary imho, it can be a burden too. I prefer mature product for working.

is BMP compatible/integrated with as many IDE as a proprietary probe?
If for instance someday you want to use it with Segger IDE+nordic sdk, is it compatible? I don't think so.
I "compared" probes recently and decided to stick to jlink. The second probe in my list is cmsis-dap/daplink, looks nice too, but don't need it (at least, not so far)

I use many different toolchains and CLI too. So when there is a tool that just needs download and exec to install driver, autoupdates etc, without spending life in CLI, I don't hesitate.

struggling or working..

@Sergio-Rius
I can't help you with blackmagic probe unfortunately.
Just personal opinion, I prefer Segger probe.
For example, Segger EDU mini is cheap. for the price don't bother with clones..

• very affordable
• compatible with a lot of IDEs, and when you use it with Segger IDE then you get best integration
• segger provides lot of tools for debugging for free
• easy updates and drivers install

The only cons to a jlink probe could be no additional uart, but I don't need uart for debug&prints (segger ozone and rtt tools), and nor uploading sketch.

Or a nrf5dk board is a nice alternative too, a little bit more expensive than EDU Mini but you get jlink+devboard+ later you could hook a power profiler kit on it
Still a jlink mini at hand is quite useful.

Like I said just personal, I'm sure BMP is nice too, I guess you'll get it working before you can get a jlink

@sergio-rius said in My experiences with MySensors:

Bs:

• Adaptive signal power
• Low level checksum error control and retry
• Channel analysis and automatic selection
• Double channel / twin radio gw
• Nrf52 ble advertising/handshake and then regular 2.4g transmission?

duh, it looks like a subset of feature list we studied for gateways we designed (Janus, Halo)

Still,

• Adaptive signal power
  Available for RFM modules only, csma as well. Whereas nrf24 has no true rssi feedback..
• Low level checksum error control and retry
  Afaik it's available for rfm69, no ideas for nrf24 I don't remember
• Channel analysis and automatic selection.
  We know this, actually it's not really hard to do. It doesn't protect against potential unfortunate jamming of course, or when 2.4ghz is crowded, but it's good start for a network.
• Double channel / twin radio gw
  No dual channel on same band, or freq hoping planned for the moment afaik. For the moment, only local dualrf pocs
• Nrf52 ble advertising/handshake and then regular 2.4g transmission?
  doable with non arduino environment only, so for the moment it's out of MySensors scope.

BLE is using freq hoping if not wrong, so in theory it might be "more resistant" to interferences than non-freq hoping protocols (depends on their strategies for reliable packet delivery). Freq hoping may imply change on hw too, for precise timing etc

that's why I'm saying old tech may get limited at some points, this implies clocks and mcus, radio etc.. By limited I mean, like a subset of features available for less powerful mcu etc. But it's too soon for saying, we miss time too..

Always suprised when someone reports rfm69 poor range..sounds crazy to me, but I guess it was a problem with sw (like the old rfm69 lib, a good test is to use radioheadlib/lowpowerlab libs for checking link, then you know if it's sw or hw) or hw (like sometimes you can receive the wrong freq for a module etc). no idea, pity!

Just my "little" two cents on this because I don't think it's MySensors fault only..afaik MySensors started with rf24, but got compatible with better radios years ago!

it can't be so weak that things like radio clones, track shapes or cap variations renders something unusable. And still did not mention interference or houses construction materials. All things that should be tested.

when you learn RF and electronics you'll discover what's the purpose of decoupling and buffering power. Same about the shape of the board, gnd plane size, enclosure, parts close to antenna et, will affect antenna frequency like shifting it, and decrease sensitivity (noise).

Manufacturers of end device passes certification to prove their device are RF "green" and calibrated. Even when you change the external antenna on a device, and don't buy the same original one, you may lose CE/FCC, because there are chance it detuned a bit RF, more or less.

These are things that a beginner would not imagine when picking a rf module, arduino, some dupont cables and playing.. So there can be variations in users nodes which can weaken link quality (Pity when the radio is only 0dB max). Far from reference design concept. Not easily coverable by MySensors team.

Don't trust me?? Just read, manufacturers datasheet, application notes, check with good RF tools or even watch some youtube videos.

Just only think that if Chinese manufacturers are making these clones in that volumes, and they are sold, it's because they took a look at the original and made a product profile with what specs are acceptable for the expected application and clones are the result. I mean that perhaps mysensors expected to much from them.

those who clones and sell volumes, why do you think they care if people continue to buy because it's cheap. they just simply sell. And when you get a problem, they show you the github from someone else who could help..

WiFi/mobile interference should not be a problem, everyone has em.

No sense, not scientific. Coexistence of multiple protocols in one RF band isn't magic. What happens when people in same room all talk at same time, and some louder?? You can catch louder people and rest is just a mess. Sort of jamming, you could even pick esp8266/32 for short range jamming 2.4gz, never tried..but in this, the stronger wins.

See this pic, especially for those who would like to use different products on same band..
(source: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Spectra-of-multiple-wireless-technologies-in-the-24-GHz-ISM-band-The-colors-indicate_fig4_326598630)

why not adding MySensors protocol in this 2.4ghz recipe?? Just pray that the freq of your node is not shifted/detuned too much.. I hope too you choosed the right freq for your network.

• Which protocols is either fixed freq, or freq hoping based??
• What if there more or less powerful repeaters for these ?

The only way would be to run protocols concurrently (with time slots). Not possible when there are separate gw for each protocols, it just get messy in air, lost packets, etc.
Was it like this 10-15 years ago in homes, I don't think so.

I hope I don't look old at repeating but finally, I think this problem is mostly about user choices..and I understand it maybe doesn't solve all problems.

@clel
sure it was fun to make, I mean when you design your devices you can choose the best parts, try to get the best perf.., even if it's a bit more expensive than a very cheap commercial product, in the end, you know what you put in.
If I remember it cost me 15-20$ when I assembled it, not that expensive, vs versatility, sensors, and possibility to change fw.

It's a quite old project, I wouldn't really advise to use 328p nowadays, it could be limited in future, says if mysensors someday get more advanced features, who knows.. it's really just my opinion. Still, I understand it's maybe easier to get started with it.
I made more modern projects, but miss time for release etc

No, I'm still not selling anything. No enough time for the moment. I think it wouldn't be worth my time. Same about compete with commercial products, like a topchef or a craftsman, I prefer to focus on other aspects when designing (quality, verstatility, perf).

If your HA is cost driven, then maybe you're right to go for Aquara. Imho diy for sensors like you mentioned will often cost the same or more than the cheapest commercial products, vs time&learning curve, parts&tools in diy.

Are these commercial products as low power, better range etc as a good care diy device, not sure.. But like I said "premium" has a cost. Pros and cons.
I think for the moment, you can't compare the range of rfm69 module vs 2.4ghz aquara. afaik aqara/zigbee needs more repeaters.

@berkseo

• like I said, MySensors bridge, combo . Yes I know about resources.
  Note: zigbee is out of MySensors scope (not arduino code), so for the moment some ideas and POCs will be local, not making money no ETA, still lot of WIPs and the daily job!
• yes.

@franz-unix
yes, rfm69 modules are great. I prefer them too, and already made custom boards with boosters in the past with these (some with filters or not).

But I didn't say your board won't work
Just meant:

• you would need tools (scope, vna etc) to know about intereferences.
• Same, that's a bad practice to not have any clearance around the antenna.
  Like you said, nrf24 has poor range, still you kept a bad orientation You could rotate it 90° so antenna would be outside your board, same for rfm69.

But don't change that for me. I prefer modern mcus, that's a while I've used a 328p mcu!
Like you said if you're happy with results, I'm glad for you too! When it's for personal use, sure, we can take shortcuts, I understand. Craftsman always knows where the little flaws are

Keep the good work, your board looks nice

@franz-unix said in Pir AS 312 with 2 rechargeable AAA battery. Boost needed?:

My feedback is positive: cheap, low power consumption, at least on the basis my measurement (not so accurate), and no noise that interfere with the radio module and the AS312 PIR.

At least no visible interference with the radio module, but you might get some.
And for RF radiation, interferences and range, no clearance/orientation of the antennas is not good too.

@dany17
Hi.
My crystal ball told me you need to uncomment this line in your sketch if you're planning to use nrf24 :

//#define MY_RADIO_RF24
to
#define MY_RADIO_RF24

If it doesn't help, like mfalkvidd said please show us your debug logs.

This evening I assembled another dongle (and a few other boards).
@nca78 as you asked, here is a pic during tests. Tiny dual rf dongle board, isn't it

thx for interests guys
I'm just not sure if there would be enough interest for me to produce. I've not really thought about it! It's the first board of the batch.

I call it a premium dongle because

• it's 4layers. It's just a little bit more expensive than 2layers. But quality is a lot increased (better impedance, full gnd plane, better routing etc). It's also recommended by lot of rf module manufacturers for topnotch perf
• I uses the high quality BT840XE module. As you know, it's a well documented and known module, and it's CE/FCC (better, as it includes a 20dB PA).
  Actually I just use a few pins on edges, and 18 pads under it..
  I had the choice to use this module, or to design mine with a frontend, but for once, I decided to go "simple" for a quick debug. And the price difference vs homemade, maybe +10€, is worth it imho, time saver, and I don't mind I just need one!

Why did I make it? Because I can and would be pity to deprive myself
And we can have a nice and reliable dongle for the team, just in case.

You're right I have others hobby projects, they're not dead..

• just lost a bit of interest on Aeos release, I agree on this, because I prefer subghz for mysensors, and would like to keep 2.4 for others protocols.
• Halo is not dead, actually it's one my favorite. I just need to find a way to include Janus in my "serverless" project which is mostly ethernet based (I made a full webapp, that I'm porting to true native crossplatform sw, android phone+tv, windows, linux, for better experience). "serverless" meaning optional rpi/computer

Oki, I'll post others pics soon.

Meet Janus project, a premium USB dongle by Tekka and me

Dual RF gateway with external antennas.

• nrf52840 with 20dB PA + SMA connector. So it can be compatible with MySensors, and/or zigbee..
• rfm69hcw/rfm95 long range + SMA connector . module has all DIO pins routed for sw driver optimizations.
• reset button
• user button
• RGB led
• high PSRR RF/analog 700mA LDO
• usb protected
• 4layers board
• enclosure size : 52x21 (thickness 11mm). compact!

Enclosure is just a quick proto, I'll improve quality, or I would like to try online multijet service, I'm curious

It's very recommended, for better performance, to have some distance between antennas.
So, for example, I'll use a shorter antenna (without cable) for 2.4ghz, and a "remote" antenna (with a cable) for 433/868/905Mhz, so it can be used with different kind of antennas.

We choosed external antennas, because

• versatile use
• better range especially when dongle is close to lot of stuff which could affect range in case of a pcb antennas

@monte sure would be nice, no need to argue on this, about a standard. (still not sure imho if 2.4g would be best choice). I'm wondering if adafruit will give up on all the work they made on their custom core too (I imagine they have no hurry, and wait to see if that'll be promising).
let's see what will happen. and perhaps next year there will be new better mcus again, almost sure

@monte
I remember in first place they mentioned apache mynewt a while ago, but finally they are moving to mbed.. still nice to hear. I think this new arduino/mbed core has not everything yet for running MySensors, that needs some work on proprietary rf.., whereas there are other working cores. At least for short-mid term. There are so much nice things to improve or add on todolist.
Team knows about new mcus, new cores etc what's missing is time, resources vs real life and projects!