What's the best PIR sensor?

[NeverDie]

Here are two with allegedly low quiescent currents:

1. Allegedly <50ua. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjust-IR-Pyroelectric-Infrared-IR-PIR-Motion-Sensor-Detector-Module-HC-SR501-/310574919531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item484fb52f6b&tfrom=201385366787&tpos=unknow&ttype=price&talgo=origal

2. Allegedly <60ua. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HC-SR505-Mini-Infrared-PIR-Motion-Sensor-Precise-Infrared-Detector-Module-/201322916809?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2edfc7ebc9&tfrom=201385366787&tpos=unknow&ttype=price&talgo=origal

Other PIR sensors?

Anyone have experience with either one? Any opinions as to which of the two is the better PIR sensor?

[scalz]

@Neverdie: I have same problem as your. I am still searching the good one. I found some refs but they are all expensive! one thing I found, very interesting doc is this:
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa283b/slaa283b.pdf
you can find the breakout at olimex. but it is expensive.
https://www.olimex.com/Products/MSP430/Starter/MSP430-PIR/
maybe the functionality could be reproduced but I have no time to invest in TI chips for the moment. or it should need to port the code to arduino, or maybe I would prefer microchip as I have lot of them.
But I like the TI app note, smart concept. don't know if it works well.

[Fabien]

you have this one : EKMA1101111
see : http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1573/my-generic-room-senser-sensebender-with-motion-and-light
only 1µA but quite expensive !

[NeverDie]

Just an idea, but maybe just hacking a solar powered PIR would relieve concerns about the need to get an ultra low power PIR.

Here's an example of one on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2xSUPER-LED-SOLAR-POWER-RECHARGEABLE-PIR-MOTION-SENSOR-SECURITY-LIGHT-DOOR-WALLS-/252053834350?hash=item3aaf944a6e

The LED function wouldn't be necessary and could instead be a trigger to a mysensor node. Also, the PIR should already be some form of low current, if it is to work as intended, though probably not ultra low current.

So, at least for an outdoor motion sensor, it might turn out to be a very easy modification requiring little effort.

Finding a tear down on somebody's blog would certainly help inform the purchase....

[NeverDie]

@Fabien said:

you have this one : EKMA1101111
see : http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1573/my-generic-room-senser-sensebender-with-motion-and-light
only 1µA but quite expensive !

Thanks! I didn't realize that 1uA PIR's even existed.

[NeverDie]

Or perhaps it makes more sense to take an inexpensive wireless PIR and just build a receiver for it. Example, here's one that alleges to have a standby current of <50uA:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/433MHz-Wireless-Intelligent-PIR-Motion-Detector-For-GSM-PSTN-Home-Alarm-System-/201375526405?var=&hash=item2ee2eaae05

If it uses a OOK Tx scheme, then IIRC, an RFM69x could (supposedly) be programmed to receive and decode it, even though FSK is probably what's typically used instead.

If you were to buy in bulk, it looks as though you could get them for $7.15 each, which for minimal hassle might not be a bad way to go.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-15-Pcs-lot-433-315Mhz-PIR-Detector-For-Wireless-GSM-PSTN-AutoDial-Home-Security/32426826496.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.121.rO72yw&ws_ab_test=201407_2,201444_6,201409_5
I have no idea as to whether they're any good or not though...

Anyone have experience with a wireless PIR that they'd like to recommend?

[tomkxy]

I am testing this puppy right now http://www.ebay.de/itm/IR-Bewegungsmelder-Modul-fur-Arduino-HC-SR501-TTL-PIR-Motion-Detector-/181830542177?hash=item2a55f1e361 and so far it doesn't work at all.

I am playing with different sensitivities, used a pull down, a pull up 1uf capacitor but it seems that the results are rather random.

[Dwalt]

@NeverDie said:

So, at least for an outdoor motion sensor, it might turn out to be a very easy modification requiring little effort.

Finding a tear down on somebody's blog would certainly help inform the purchase....

Here is a review of a similar solar light.

(http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-LED-Solar-Powered-PIR-Motion-Sensor-Light-Outdoor-Garden-Security-Wall-Light-/251959451412?hash=item3aa9f41f14).

A lot of space inside for arduino, radio and additional sensors. Plus it is made of plastic which is better for radio. So you have a weatherproof housing with solar panel, battery, charging circuit and PIR already built in.

[NeverDie]

Interestingly, this guy pours cold water on panasonic's claim to 1ua current: http://too-many-projects.blogspot.com/2015/08/adventures-in-low-power-pir-sensors.html
He also identifies the AM322 as having an average current of about 29uA. However, I can't be sure that's accurate because of the way he measures it using an Extech DMM. I suspect a more careful measurement would show it to be higher, at which point it would become a wash with the more commonly available options that reputedly consume around 50uA.

I looked on Digikey for the panasonic PIR, but it seems that they're sold out on the type they claim consumes 1ua. Digikey does have plentyof the panasonic types that consume 170ua though. Digikey's price for the 1uA is around $16 (if they had it). If the number isn't bogus, I think it' may be worth the price. Solar is an alternative, but it's not without issues that could be sidestepped by a 1uA device.

[NeverDie]

Visonic sells the 2000C/PC PIR sensor, which consumes 4uA at 9v but costs around $65 plus shipping. It's a fully built sensor though and so hookup would be very easy. Likewise the Opotex EX-35R claims to consume 3.5uA while in standby (http://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/brochure/EX_35 series.pdf) It can be had for about $40 plus shipping. Or there's the VX-402R, which I've previously owned (the plastic yellowed markedly from sun UV) for >$100 and it claims to consume <10uA: https://www.google.com/search?q=vx-402r&newwindow=1&biw=1280&bih=554&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0CHsQ_AUoAWoVChMIjLKC567WxwIVwpMNCh2jagOS#imgrc=V9ZE8BKtwmzC5M%3A
Here's a youtube on how to connect the VX-402R wirelessly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30G5iMZ6sxQ

[NeverDie]

Here's another one to add to the list: IRS-B340ST02

Used here: http://advanceddevices.com/sites/default/files/documents/AN311_MOTION_SENSOR_BASED_ON_STM300.pdf

In addition, Honeywell claims up to a 7 year battery life (from just one CR123 3v Lithium battery) for its PIR: http://library.ademconet.com/MWT/fs2/5800PIR-RES/5800PIR-Series-Data-sheet.PDF
Not bad.

[pyrodetector]

Hello.
It is not a question which PIR sensor is the best. The question is that who will sell it to you? There are a number of manufacturers which produce high-end pyroelectric detectors, but they don't sell them to private persons. Good quality lithium tantalate pyroelectric detector which you can use in instrumentation, costs approximately from 150 to 500 USD, and even higher. I know one supplier who sells their products worldwide. That is

http://silverlight.ch/order_detectors.php

Choose the last detector Model 446M2-3 and you will be happy. This is a "BMW" pyroelectric detector. If you have a bag of money, you, probably, can order "BMW" detectors from these people

http://www.scitec.uk.com/infrared_detectors/irsensors_ordering.php?Submit1=Buy+Now

In general, lithium tantalate pyroelectric detectors are not sold to private persons. Mouser, Farnell, and other distributors do not sell such things. They can sell only cheap detectors based on ceramics that are unable to be used in instrumentation.

If you have questions about pyroelectric detectors, I may try to help you. Contact me at

https://sites.google.com/site/pyrodetector/

My research relates to mathematical modelling of pyroelectric detectors. I develop simulators for "BMW" detectors.
I hope, this helps.
Kind regards.

[alexsh1]

By far the best PIR is Panasonic EKMB1201111 - 2uA
The problem is the price

[gohan]

the good question would be "what is the best pir sensor with an affordable price" that can be used for DIY

[pyrodetector]

"what is the best pir sensor with an affordable price" that can be used for DIY
If you want to do a thing by yourself, with a PIR sensor being cheap, you had better choose a PIR sensor from this manufacturer
http://kube.ch/pyroelectric/index.php
Read how they test their PIR sensors under humid environmental conditions
http://kube.ch/downloads/pdf/kube_sensors_stability.pdf
If a sensor is extremely cheap and is not sealed properly, moisture when comes in, just short-circuit the high-megohm pyroelectric sensitive element. No need to explain further...
You can buy a high-quality ceramic PIR sensor from KUBE for less than 10 euro. Lower price (10 euro for a bag full of PIR sensors) will give the low quality. You will be upset from the low quality longer than happy from the low price.

[alexsh1]

@pyrodetector it is €50 for a demonstrator
Wow! I'll stick to Panasonic

[gohan]

@alexsh1 Panasonic is around 20€ just for sensor, then you will have to build the pcb with all components, right?

[alexsh1]

@gohan sure, I got mine for $19 plus components and the case. And if you consider a good quality 3D printed case l, it is alone can be €15-20.

However, my PIR is nowhere near €50 given that all other components are cheap. I am only using it indoors. All I'm trying to say is that €50 is a level of z-wave devices. Aeon Multisensor is €55 - you get 6-in-1 sensor and not just PIR

[gohan]

Agreed, over 50€ is price range for commercial zwave (or similar) products and you would not even get near the level of compactness with a DIY cheaper solution

[scalz]

@gohan
depends what you mean by diy
if this is using cheap ali modules and stacking them, i agree. Else, soon, let me show how it can be more tiny That said rev1 of my multisensors is already tiny.

[gohan]

If you can make a comparable multisensor like the fibaro motion sensor with a 2 years battery life, I'm happy for you

[alexsh1]

@gohan yeah, major limitation for me is designing and printing a nice enclosure. I have recently finished a Geiger sensor. Cost of parts is not massive. The most expensive was the Geiger-Muller tube - £15. Printing an enclosure in SLS was £55. Ouch!!!
It does look nice, but the cost is just prohibitive

[gohan]

@alexsh1 agreed, with today's cost of a rather cheap 3D printer, you could repay it within 15-20 printed boxes

[alexsh1]

@gohan not in SLS. If you have to have a final product, the cost of printer is way too high. Needless to say that it looks like Xerox back in the 1980s

[gohan]

Over here we are mostly talking about DIY stuff, and many times don't even have a box, so an ABS 3D printed box is close enough for a final product

[alexsh1]

@gohan perhaps it is me, but I'm perfectionist. If I have a node, it has to be perfect. And as a final product, that's the way it should be. When designing a prototype, ABS/PLA is fine, but it does not look like a finished product. Sorry

[pyrodetector]

@alexsh1 Why do you need a 50 euro demonstrator? A PIR sensor has 3 outputs: +, output, common. There is a 47K resistor between output and common. The circuit of an alarm sensor is very simple. Next, you can either make an alarm sensor using a circuit for example taken from here

http://unhas.ac.id/tahir/BAHAN-KULIAH/ELIN/NEW/AlarmSensorandSecurityCircuitCookbook.pdf

page 230 (you can use any ceramic PIR sensor instead of Model 5192 on lithium tantalate described by the author), or connect it directly to an A/D converter, and "play digits".

You can order good quality dual ceramic PIR sensors at kube.ch or
http://www.excelitas.com/Pages/Product/Pyroelectric-Detectors-and-Sensors.aspx
Remember that no name manufacturers give no name quality.

Want to know more about how PIR sensors work? Feel free to ask me.
https://sites.google.com/site/pyrodetector/
If I am skilled (if your question relates to a PIR sensor itself), I will help. Otherwise, I may try to help you, at least, by saying what I think about your problem. Good luck:)

[alexsh1]

@pyrodetector that was exactly my point. Way too expensive

I have checked the web-site your provided and I can see their prices for PIRs are not too bad (exVAT and exWorks):

http://kube.ch/downloads/pdf/kube_pricelist.pdf

[pyrodetector]

@alexsh1 Happy to been helpful:) But, remember if you want to apply a PIR sensor in instrumentation, you have to use lithium tantalate pyroelectric detector rather than simple ceramic one. Ask me before.

[mar.conte]

@NeverDie
Hi
I just ordered a pir of panasonic Papirs series and even a parallax'll let you know

[NeverDie]

@mar.conte
Great!

[Nca78]

I have received:

• AM312 based complete PIR sensors, basic sensor with Vcc, GND and output. Claimed consumption on datasheet 20µA.
• AM612 PIR sensors (sensors only). This include all the circuitry in the metal cap, so you only have to add basic components like caps and resistors to set parameters: sensibility, trigger duration. Claimed consumption on datasheet: 15uA.

I'll try to test them this week to first see if the claims are true (or at least, not too optimistic ) on power consumption, then I'll make some basic sensors to check range and stability for a while.

[pyrodetector]

I have published the brochure in which I tested the eleven pyroelectric detectors from different manufacturers, pyroelectric materials, and electrical connections - both parallel and serial. I tested them under the same conditions. I hope this helps. Feel free to ask the questions:)

[NeverDie]

@pyrodetector said in What's the best PIR sensor?:

I have published the brochure in which I tested the eleven pyroelectric detectors from different manufacturers, pyroelectric materials, and electrical connections - both parallel and serial. I tested them under the same conditions. I hope this helps. Feel free to ask the questions:)

For the TL;DR, which one did you like the best?

[pyrodetector]

@NeverDie said in What's the best PIR sensor?:

@pyrodetector said in What's the best PIR sensor?:

I have published the brochure in which I tested the eleven pyroelectric detectors from different manufacturers, pyroelectric materials, and electrical connections - both parallel and serial. I tested them under the same conditions. I hope this helps. Feel free to ask the questions:)

For the TL;DR, which one did you like the best?

Dear NeverDie!
What is "TL;DR", please?
Every sensor is good for its application. Among a set of sensors the best two sensors or more are those having similar characteristics.

[NeverDie]

@pyrodetector "TL;DR" = "too long; didn't read." Nothing personal. Just a common internet acronym. It means, in effect, "What's the bottom line?"

[chrisjn52]

@NeverDie - Just in case you haven't seen them there are a number of TI Reference Designs and Application Notes that you may find useful.

[pyrodetector]

@NeverDie said in What's the best PIR sensor?:

@pyrodetector "TL;DR" = "too long; didn't read." Nothing personal. Just a common internet acronym. It means, in effect, "What's the bottom line?"

Dear @NeverDie Thanks a lot! I am not an experienced user on the internet forums and you help me be getting better.
In order to say which sensor is the best, one has to determine the criteria. I research the dynamic behavior of pyroelectric detectors. One common rule is true for all pyroelectric detectors: the higher the AC responsivity, the higher the noise, the higher the current consumption, the shorter the transient response. And vice versa. If you want to gain more knowledge on pyroelectric detectors, you can build an experimental setup/bench similar to mine for testing your pyroelectric detectors. I wish anyone had such a bench and we could share the results with one another. Probably, closer to spring, I will test the sensor you mentioned above and publish its transient response here.

[NeverDie]

At the time I thought the am612 was in a good sweet spot (low price, low power, and "good enough" sensitivity), but technology is constantly improving, and so I'm always interested if anyone knows of something better.

Also, these days wireless cameras are so cheap that I think the trend is toward combining them with PIR's, so that the cause of the trigger is always documented (well, to the degree it can be).

[Nca78]

@NeverDie AM612 has been improved with BS612: down to 2.2V instead of 2.7V, and max 11uA working current compared to 14.
There's also a HM612 which is supposed to be "long range" and has a higher sensibility, other specs seem to be the same. I've not tested them, not using any pir sensors here it's too hot to be usable

[lood29]

@NeverDie
Excelitas PYD1588/1598 are the best I've used, running now for years without a single false alert.
Fully integrated, 1.8V and only 3uA

[nagelc]

@lood29
I recently got a PYD1598 sensor up an running. I made a lot of guesses at the settings and would like to hear what you are using. I wound up with:
Pulse Detection Mode 0 = signal has to exceed the threshold and change of sign
High Pass Filter Freq. 1 = 0.2 Hz
Filter Source 0 = PIR (BPF)
Window Time 0 = 2 seconds
Pulse Counter 0 = 1 pulse
Blind Time 2 seconds
Threshold = 128

I played around with the threshold a little, but didn't get a very good sense of the tradeoff of sensitivity vs false alarms (working in a relatively small room). The 128 seems to work, but wondering if there are better settings.

[NeverDie]

@lood29 said in What's the best PIR sensor?:

Excelitas PYD1588/1598

What kind of range?

[lood29]

@nagelc
I kept all setting to default except the maintain window =8s
So the SERIN reg is: 0x0031ED10

@NeverDie
With the fresnel and the wide angle 1598 it's ~ 7m

[nagelc]

@lood29 Interesting. Looks like I can cut the threshold way down. I'll give that a try.