nRF5 action!

Right, it sucks for low power at it needs recalibration every 4 seconds to stay accurate enough, generating 10uA extra consumption. But I'm not sure if this is needed for bluetooth only (because it has to wake up regularly and listen during a precise time window), or also for "nrf24" mode because in that mode we don't need to be precise or regular listenin.

That's correct. If required, the calibration task must be implemented or is part of the SoftDevice. At the moment the radio doesn't require a precise RTC for nRF24 compatibility. For battery powered sensors listening for commands a time slotted protocol is required. Then this protocol relies on a precise RTC.

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 05:57

I'm leaning more toward the nRF52 platform over the nRF51, in part for its superior range but also because I'm guessing it will be a little easier for the person who is implementing the OTA sketch uploads to implement it first on an nRF52 (more resources, less constrained).

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 12:32

So, is the speed of the Cortex on an nRF5 already good enough that one can simply emulate an atsha signing component, and thus that part now completely disappears from the BOM?

Anticimex · 13 Jul 2017, 12:44

@NeverDie you can run soft signing on any device. It emulates the atsha204a equally well. The performance of the MCU only affects the speed of the calculations, not the quality of the result.

Anticimex · 13 Jul 2017, 12:45

@NeverDie but remember that if you use soft signing it is your own responsibility to protect the hmac key from readout by an attacker with physical access to the device.

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 13:04

@Anticimex said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

@NeverDie but remember that if you use soft signing it is your own responsibility to protect the hmac key from readout by an attacker with physical access to the device.

Thanks! Good to know. Speaking only for myself, I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over the prospect of an attacker gaining physical access to one of my home devices with the intent of extracting the hmac key. I'm more likely to win a lottery than have that happen--and I don't even play lotteries.

Anticimex · 13 Jul 2017, 13:27

@NeverDie that is probably correct, I just feel a responsibility to inform everyone of any known weaknesses in the security infrastructure

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 14:06

@Anticimex
I don't mean to trivialize it. For commercial applications, the atsha204a would of course make sense.

But, at least for now, it sounds likely that $2.73 will buy you the hardware for a nice little home wireless node, minus sensors and power supply. That's today's price for a NRF51822-04 MINI that NCA78 linked to above. And, of course, that price will continue to drop. Pretty cool!

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 14:14

Which library is most recommended for exploiting the RTC that's on an nRF52832? Likewise, what's the best library for sleeping the nRF52832? Since I have the DK, I'd like to take some current measurements while running some demo code for that. That will establish a baseline for comparing future measurements.

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 14:55

I just now ordered this:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13746?_ga=2.39569123.1141912816.1499956888-1087552930.1495048698

It's like a regular FTDI, but it can also power your project at 3.3v at up to 600ma! Previously I had to make my own hacked FTDI interface to do that. Ordinary 3.3v FTDI's will burn out under the load of, say, an ESP8266, or a 20db Tx power amplified nRF24L01.

d00616 · 13 Jul 2017, 15:14

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

Which library is most recommended for exploiting the RTC that's on an nRF52832? Likewise, what's the best library for sleeping the nRF52832? Since I have the DK, I'd like to take some current measurements while running some demo code for that. That will establish a baseline for comparing future measurements.

Sleeping is implemented by hwSleep(). This function uses one RTC. If you need advanced RTC access, you have to cooperate with this RTC, because the interrupt routine must reset the state registers. On nRF51 the other RTC is used for millis(). The nRF52 has one RTC free.

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 16:09

In case anyone else either has, or is thinking of getting, the nRF52832 DK, it looks as though there is indeed a way to use its programmer to program an offboard nRF52832 without desoldering the nRF52832 that's on the DK. Here's the existence proof photo where an 832 DK is being used to program Sparkfun's nRF52832 breakout board over the two SW lines:

The caption reads "For faster programming, an nRF52832 Development Kit can be used to program the nRF52832 Breakout Board."
I haven't yet found the instructions on how to do it though.

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 19:00

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

@d00616
9mmx9mm would be great. However, are you certain?

I'm convinced! I pulled this picture off the FCC website, and, indeed, it is 9x9mm:

(https://fccid.io/2AA72-PTR5628)

So, thanks for mentioning its size, or else I never would have known!

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 19:30

So, what's the smallest nRF52 module that also includes a 32Khz crystal? I think I might want to standardize as much as possible on a single module rather than juggle a bunch of different ones.

d00616 · 13 Jul 2017, 19:55

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

So, what's the smallest nRF52 module that also includes a 32Khz crystal? I think I might want to standardize as much as possible on a single module rather than juggle a bunch of different ones.

What do you think about creating an table with known modules including integrated hardware, available ports and size?

I think, most small modules comes without 32kHz crystal. This is mostly an option. Maybe for the 9x9mm module. But I think the antenna is no good choice for indoor usage.

I have a lot of RedBear BLE Nano 2 (18x21mm) modules. It's complete including 32Khz crystal and a 3-13V voltage converter. With 2.54mm pins it's easy to solder.

I have asked the manufacturer(cdebyte) of the nice nRF24 and nRF52 modules if it's possible to build an module including the nRF52, an RGB LED, an button and 5V protected inputs with the layout like the popular nRF24 modules plus two optional pins (6/8 IO Ports!). I think such type of nRF52 module makes it easy to migrate to 32 Bit using existing boards or build new boards.

NeverDie · 13 Jul 2017, 21:19

I just now noticed that Ebyte also has a storefront on aliexpress.
https://cdebyte.aliexpress.com/store/2077046?spm=2114.12010108.0.0.7Yid4a
For me, it's much better than ebay, because it includes free e-packet delivery to the US. So, unlike ebay, I will hopefully get their modules much sooner than September! The estimated delivery time from Ebyte if ordered through Aliexpress is 12-20 days.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/CDEBYTE-E73-2G4M04S-BLE-4-2-5-0-long-distance-100m-2-4GHz-SMD-ARM-Core/2077046_32820692238.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.TZClHR

[Edit: Also, on Aliexpress, Ebyte gives a coupon for $5 off if you order >$45]

Nca78 · 14 Jul 2017, 08:03

@NeverDie yes noticed their shop only 2 days ago and feeling frustrated now
For shipment delay I wouldn't be surprised if they shipped the same way with free option and it would just be a different way to state the delay on the 2 websites...

NeverDie · 14 Jul 2017, 11:25

@Nca78
We'll soon know. I ordered Ebyte products from both Ebay and Aliexpress, and I'll take note of when each order arrives.

d00616 · 14 Jul 2017, 13:30

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

So, what's the smallest nRF52 module that also includes a 32Khz crystal? I think I might want to standardize as much as possible on a single module rather than juggle a bunch of different ones.

I have found the Raytec Modules. http://www.raytac.com/products.php?id=1
The smallest one is the MDBT42V 8,4x6,4x1,5mm with PCB antenna and 80m range in open space.

This module https://www.mtmtech.com.tw/M905.html is 6.5 ✕ 6.5 x 1.1 mm

Nca78 · 14 Jul 2017, 14:00

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

So, what's the smallest nRF52 module that also includes a 32Khz crystal? I think I might want to standardize as much as possible on a single module rather than juggle a bunch of different ones.

I have found the Raytec Modules. http://www.raytac.com/products.php?id=1
The smallest one is the MDBT42V 8,4x6,4x1,5mm with PCB antenna and 80m range in open space.

This module https://www.mtmtech.com.tw/M905.html is 6.5 ✕ 6.5 x 1.1 mm

M905 is impressive, but with connectors at the bottom it's impossible to hand solder...
Raytac module is what scalz used for the prototype of his "Aeos" board, pretty small but he didn't look so happy with the range.

Terrence · 14 Jul 2017, 14:02

Guys, when you start using these 832 chips are you going to be programming via Bluetooth or just using the radios in some other way?

NeverDie · 14 Jul 2017, 19:06

@Terrence said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

Guys, when you start using these 832 chips are you going to be programming via Bluetooth or just using the radios in some other way?

I'd like to see the work extended to include Bluetooth. Nearly everything has bluetooth these days, so leveraging that would seem to make a lot of sense. I just don't know where to start.

Terrence · 14 Jul 2017, 19:09

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

Nearly everything has bluetooth these days, so leveraging that would seem to make a lot of sense. I just don't know where to start

I agree.
I have done a little bit of BT programming. It seems pretty complex, but I am sure that will change once we immerse our attention in it.

NeverDie · 14 Jul 2017, 19:29

I'd like to see an extremely basic script that simply has two bluetooth nodes talking back and forth to one another (maybe just increment a counter on each turn and send just that). If we could get that simple activity working, then I suspect the rest could follow more easily.

NeverDie · 14 Jul 2017, 20:59

Or there's this from Arduino: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-Primo-Core-MCU-nRF52832-ARM-32-bit-64MHz-ESP8266-WiFi-BT-BLE-A0000138-/122599125462?hash=item1c8b7a31d6:g:LQkAAOSwmFNZaQRe

Terrence · 14 Jul 2017, 21:03

@NeverDie Here is Kris's great looking board over on Tindie for $40
https://www.tindie.com/products/onehorse/nrf52832-development-board/

And his great GitHub repo showing how to program it.
https://github.com/kriswiner/nRF52832DevBoard

And Sandeep Mistry's Arduino core lib
https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-nRF5

I am going to try and contact Kris and see if he will come over and join us.

NeverDie · 14 Jul 2017, 21:13

@Terrence

All the bluetooth sketches that I've heard of so far boil down to a bluetooth node communicating with your smartphone. That's great, and I'm glad for that, but it seems more like a wireless GUI than the internet of things.

NeverDie · 14 Jul 2017, 22:06

https://github.com/Seeed-Studio/Bluetooth_Shield_Demo_Code/tree/master/examples

@d00616 said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

So, what's the smallest nRF52 module that also includes a 32Khz crystal? I think I might want to standardize as much as possible on a single module rather than juggle a bunch of different ones.

I have found the Raytec Modules. http://www.raytac.com/products.php?id=1
The smallest one is the MDBT42V 8,4x6,4x1,5mm with PCB antenna and 80m range in open space.

This module https://www.mtmtech.com.tw/M905.html is 6.5 ✕ 6.5 x 1.1 mm

M905 is impressive, but with connectors at the bottom it's impossible to hand solder...
Raytac module is what scalz used for the prototype of his "Aeos" board, pretty small but he didn't look so happy with the range.

What's great is that both nodes are built around the Nordic nRF52, so the software still works.

With such a small antenna on the small Raytac node, at least some impairment is probably unavoidable. @Scalz How many dBm are lost because of it?

Regarding the M905, if there were some company that could simply solder the M905 to a PCB of the same size with castellated pins along the edges.... we'd be set, because we could then hand solder to that. I have no idea what that would cost or what the minimum batch size would have to be for it to make economic sense. Maybe someone here knows about such things? Perhaps it's something that Itead or one of the mysensors manufacturing partners could comment on or do?

Terrence · 14 Jul 2017, 22:21

@NeverDie Here is a repo from Seeed showing master and slave comms.

Oh and it looks like Kris posted his dev board on ohw.io
https://forum.mysensors.org/topic/7160/nrf52-development-board

NeverDie · 15 Jul 2017, 04:11

I have a lot of RedBear BLE Nano 2 (18x21mm) modules. It's complete including 32Khz crystal and a 3-13V voltage converter. With 2.54mm pins it's easy to solder.

Sounds like a good way to get started, as well as build quick prototypes.

NeverDie · 15 Jul 2017, 19:33

I think the best option for beginners is to use an CMSIS-DAP/DAPLink adapter. Firmware and drivers are open source and there is an integrated serial port.

Is this how to wire up a CMSIS-DAP to the nRF52832?

i.e. it's the same as a j-tag wiring setup, except that you add the serial Rx and Tx lines?

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 04:42

Well, this is bordering on ridiculous. I received the CMSIS-DAP from Adafruit, but there is no windows driver for it. Furthermore, the company that made it (armstart) has apparently gone out of business.

d00616 · 16 Jul 2017, 05:36

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

Is this how to wire up a CMSIS-DAP to the nRF52832?

You have to wire SWCLK and SWDIO. In a note of RedBear BLE Nano 2 i have seen, you require DAPLink >1.5 for nRF52832 support. Rx+Tx is not required for programming.

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

Well, this is bordering on ridiculous. I received the CMSIS-DAP from Adafruit, but there is no windows driver for it. Furthermore, the company that made it (armstart) has apparently gone out of business.

You should see an storage device and an serial device. The serial device windows driver is available at https://developer.mbed.org/handbook/Windows-serial-configuration

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 06:10

The serial device windows driver is available at https://developer.mbed.org/handbook/Windows-serial-configuration

Unfortunately, when I try installing that, it says, "The driver could not be installed. No mbed Micronctrollers were found."

gohan · 16 Jul 2017, 07:09

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

Well, this is bordering on ridiculous. I received the CMSIS-DAP from Adafruit, but there is no windows driver for it. Furthermore, the company that made it (armstart) has apparently gone out of business.

That sucks a lot. Try searching for the hardware id you see in windows, maybe you can find some other drivers from other vendors.

Nca78 · 16 Jul 2017, 11:18

Has anyone noticed that a bunch of cheap Chinese "smart bands" use a nrf51822 ?
This opens some new possibilities if used as MySensors actuator !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBHyQ1OSM-4

d00616 · 16 Jul 2017, 11:43

https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-nRF5/issues/165

Has anyone noticed that a bunch of cheap Chinese "smart bands" use a nrf51822 ?

Yes. There are people working with it. Please read the discussion at github. There are watches with non nordic chips.

There are a lot of other hardware like the Noke Lock

Or the iStubb 2 with integrated stop up converter (maybe inductor + software) which works with 0.9V.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 12:30

@d00616
Fortunately, I just received the J-link segger from aliexpress. When I plug it in, Windows seems to immediately recognize it. However, the problem is that the Arduino IDE doesn't seem to recognize it: it doesn't show up in the IDE port list under the tools menu.

I've tried installing each of the Zadig usb drivers, in turn, with no difference.

I tried installing the mbed usb windows driver, but it fails with the same error message as before.

I also tried downloading the segger software pack and installing it. Still fails.

Frustrating!

d00616 · 16 Jul 2017, 12:34

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

I've tried installing each of the Zadig usb drivers, in turn, with no difference.

You have to remove the J-Link software completely. With my old j-link I had to install the J-Link software for Firmwareupdate. After that I removed the J-Link Software and all drivers via "device manager" (module plugged in) and reinstalled the correct driver with zadig (plugin module after starting zadig).

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 12:39

@d00616
OK, I'll try that. Which of those 4 Zadig usb drivers should I pick?

d00616 · 16 Jul 2017, 12:42

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

OK, I'll try that. Which of those 4 Zadig usb drivers should I pick?

Open the windows device manager and pull/plug the device and remove all depending drivers with option to uninstall the drivers.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 12:43

@d00616
Right. But after that, which of the four do I re-install from Zadig? Or, am I misunderstanding?

MiKa · 16 Jul 2017, 12:44

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SCOMAS-ID107-Plus-heart-rate-monitor-Smart-bracelets-pedometer-Sports-Fitness-tracker-Silicone-ID-107-plus/32815883691.html?spm=2114.search0204.3.3.AScOX6&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10068_10171_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10303_10137_10111_10060_10112_10155_10113_10114_10154_438_10056_10055_10054_10182_10059_100031_10099_10078_10079_10103_10073_10102_10189_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051,searchweb201603_2,ppcSwitch_5_ppcChannel&btsid=6c368be3-dd10-4a1e-903f-9fe10df3c995&algo_expid=86c55568-ad7f-409b-bae9-7b5635555f62-0&algo_pvid=86c55568-ad7f-409b-bae9-7b5635555f6also bolded text

Has anyone noticed that a bunch of cheap Chinese "smart bands" use a nrf51822 ?
This opens some new possibilities if used as MySensors actuator !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBHyQ1OSM-4

MiKa · 16 Jul 2017, 12:45

this one with nodic 52832

MiKa · 16 Jul 2017, 12:51

next nice board with NRF 52832

http://www.espruino.com/Puck.js

d00616 · 16 Jul 2017, 12:58

@NeverDie said in Minimalist SAMD21 TQFP32 Pro Mini:

Right. But after that, which of the four do I re-install from Zadig? Or, am I misunderstanding?

The CDC and BULK interface. All other are other Hardware.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 15:04

FWIW, I ran across another example of where someone is using the DK to program an external nRF5 board:

(https://github.com/electronut/ElectronutLabs-bluey/blob/master/nRF52-DK-prog.md)
Unfortunately, that photo is also roughly the extent of their documentation, though they do spell out the pin mapping and tell which Linux commands to use.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 19:05

I tried wiring it up as shown in the photos to the Adafruit nRF52832 and doing a programming through the DK and the Arduino IDE, but as you would expect it just programmed the nRF52832 that's on the DK and not the Adafruit. So, either there's a jumper that needs to be set, or different software is required to program an off-board nRF52832.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 19:30

Well, I found this in the user manual of the DK, which sounds quite encouraging:

The nRF52 Development Kit board supports programming and debugging nRF51 and nRF52 devices mounted on external boards. To debug an external board with SEGGER J-Link OB IF, connect to the Debug out connector (P19) with a 10 pin cable. Figure 22: Debug output connector
When the external board is powered, the interface MCU will detect the supply voltage of the board and program/debug the target chip on the external board instead of the on-board nRF52832.
Important: The voltage supported by external debugging/programming is 3.0 V.
You can also use P20 as a debug out connection to program shield mounted targets. For the Debug out header (P19),the Interface MCU will detect the supply voltage on the mounted shield and program/debug the shield target.

So, I'll try powering the off-board nrf52832 separately and see if it then works as described.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 20:16

Success! Got Blink compiled and uploaded to the Adafruit nRF52832 Feather using the nRF52832 DK.

BTW, the adafruit LED works the opposite of the DK LED: on the Adafruit (as with most Arduino's), LOW means OFF, and HIGH means ON. For some reason the DK is the opposite of that.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 20:44

Here is a photo to document the solution which worked:

For some reason the wiring shown in the Sparkfun and Bluey photos using header P20 didn't work for me, but using the ten pin P19 header, in combination with externally powering the Adafruit nRF52832 Feather, did work. So far, this is the only solution I've found which works from the Microsoft Windows environment using the Arduino IDE. So, this is what I'm going to move forward with.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 21:07

So, I have the Mysensors Light Sensor demo sketch running now on the Adafruit. I'm sorry to report though that the range is not good. Not sure why. Maybe it's that chip antenna Adafruit is using on its nRF52 Feather? Now that I know this, I won't be buying any more of them.

Terrence · 16 Jul 2017, 21:36

@NeverDie Good work, I am glad you have successfully programmed a chip from the DK.

Do you think we should open a new thread devoted to all of this Bluetooth action?

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 21:54

@Terrence said in Bluetooth action!:

@NeverDie Good work, I am glad you have successfully programmed a chip from the DK.

Do you think we should open a new thread devoted to all of this Bluetooth action?

Meh, I'll leave that up to the moderator. Meanwhile, I changed this thread's title to match your catch phrase.

NeverDie · 16 Jul 2017, 22:15

@MiKa said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

next nice board with NRF 52832

http://www.espruino.com/Puck.js

Thanks for your post! Looks as though they have some very nice tutorials to go with it. That really sets it apart and makes it much more desirable.

Perhaps most significant of all: it claims it can be "programmed and debugged wirelessly"! Well, that makes sense, given the nature of its language.

gohan · 16 Jul 2017, 22:59

BTW, the adafruit LED works the opposite of the DK LED: on the Adafruit (as with most Arduino's), LOW means OFF, and HIGH means ON. For some reason the DK is the opposite of that.

Maybe it is like the esp32 that the led is connected to vcc and not to gnd

Terrence · 17 Jul 2017, 03:24

http://news.silabs.com/2016-11-08-Bluetooth-SiP-Module-from-Silicon-Labs-Offers-Worlds-Smallest-Footprint-for-IoT-End-Nodes

Meanwhile, I changed this thread's title to match your catch phrase

Perfect.

NeverDie · 17 Jul 2017, 13:13

Looks as though the nRF52832 sparkfun board has more of a conventional trace antenna:

though isn't it somewhat odd that it appears to also be directly connected to the ground plane(?), or at least a copper pour. Is that normal? This was one of the images produced by sending their .BRD file to oshpark, so that I could get a look at the antenna.

jpb · 17 Jul 2017, 13:18

Please, take a look at the Soc version, only 3,33,10,5 ... Ok it is a Soc version ...

but unbelievable ....
BR
JP
Same question for WIFI bgn and bng/ac ... including a low power CortexM4F also ?

NeverDie · 17 Jul 2017, 13:24

@jpb said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

http://news.silabs.com/2016-11-08-Bluetooth-SiP-Module-from-Silicon-Labs-Offers-Worlds-Smallest-Footprint-for-IoT-End-Nodes

Please, take a look at the Soc version, only 3,33,10,5 ... Ok it is a Soc version ...

but unbelievable ....
BR
JP
Same question for WIFI bgn and bng/ac ... including a low power CortexM4F also ?

@jpb
Nice, but for present purposes the problem is that it doesn't use a Nordic nRF5. The existing mysensors development release doesn't support bluetooth per se, but rather the nRF24-type modes of the nRF5 chip. A chip from a non-Nordic chip manufacturer wouldn't support those modes.

What will be interesting is if/when mysensors does in some way support bluetooth proper, at which point maybe some kinds (?) of bluetooth interactions with non-nordic bluetooth devices may be possible. Nordic has a bluetooth stack available for use on its nRF5 chips, and so it's ripe for integration.

NeverDie · 17 Jul 2017, 14:38

For people who like coincell motes, this type of PCB design should be easy to put together:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/iBeacon-Module-Bluetooth-4-0-BLE-Support-Near-field-Positioning-Sensor-Wireless-Acquisition/2049663760.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.32.DOxJ8e&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10178_10137_10111_10060_10112_10113_10155_10114_10154_438_10056_10055_10054_10182_10059_100031_10099_10078_10079_10103_10073_10102_5360020_10189_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051-normal#cfs,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=4fa0fbcf-4595-46be-bd67-15faeeec2be5&algo_expid=f9915ec2-6be8-4ffb-aa7c-5da25d04f4a1-4&algo_pvid=f9915ec2-6be8-4ffb-aa7c-5da25d04f4a1

NeverDie · 17 Jul 2017, 15:55

I have some of these 1.27mm 10 pin box connectors on order from Aliexpress (above), but I'm ordering a few more from Digikey so I can get them faster:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3220-10-0100-00/1175-1627-ND/3883661
It should make wire-ups for chip programming/debugging a lot easier.

Of course, I'd most prefer to do it all wirelessly.... Has anyone reading this had any success with that, or know of anyone who has without resorting to espruino?

NeverDie · 17 Jul 2017, 16:15

If we upload to an nRF52840 the current mysensors demo code examples for an nRF52832, will it work? Anyone tried it?

d00616 · 17 Jul 2017, 16:48

https://www.openhardware.io/view/436

If we upload to an nRF52840 the current mysensors demo code examples for an nRF52832, will it work? Anyone tried it?

The 52840 is currently unsupported:
https://github.com/sandeepmistry/arduino-nRF5/issues/70

You can try the source code from: https://github.com/lpercifield/arduino-nRF5/tree/nrf52840

NeverDie · 17 Jul 2017, 17:23

In that case I think I may order another nRF52832 DK, because I want to establish very soon some kind of reasonable baseline for the kind of range I should expect. The adafruit nRF52832 Feather seems to have awful range, and I'm not sure if that's what I should expect generally, or whether it's just that particular design/device. If it turns out to be true for nRF52832 generally, then I may just shelve things and wait for the nRF52840 to become supported and then try again with that.

Terrence · 17 Jul 2017, 21:55

@NeverDie

NeverDie · 18 Jul 2017, 03:39

I found I could improve reception from the Adafruit nRF52832 Feather by using an PA+LNA boosted nRF24L01. So, although this feels a bit like a step backward, it's at least workable and fairly cheap. Also, it need only go onto a gateway, thereby allowing other motes to potentially use smaller nRF5 modules.

NeverDie · 18 Jul 2017, 16:46

I have this on order to serve the purpose:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/E01-ML01DP5-Ebyte-2-4GHz-20dBm-2100m-nRF24L01-SPI-Wireless-transceiver-module/32638720689.html
though yesterday I tested the idea using one of these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Smart-Electronics-1Set-2-4G-1100-Meters-Long-Distance-NRF24L01-PA-LNA-Wireless-Transceiver-Communication-Modules/32707423150.html?spm=2114.search0204.3.105.TGUiz5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10178_10137_10111_10060_10112_10113_10155_10114_10154_438_10056_10055_10054_10182_10059_100031_10099_10078_10079_10103_10073_10102_5360020_10189_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051-10111,searchweb201603_5,ppcSwitch_4_ppcChannel&btsid=a7086a85-885c-430a-a6db-e8f80171efc1&algo_expid=959e3532-756a-47c5-8de7-461b096da1d9-10&algo_pvid=959e3532-756a-47c5-8de7-461b096da1d9

NeverDie · 18 Jul 2017, 21:01

Here's a demo of the high speed feature of nRF52 on a Samsung S8 phone:
https://devzone.nordicsemi.com/blogs/1106/bluetooth-5-2mbps-demo-with-nrf52-series-and-samsu/

It occurs to me now how much more interesting this will get when phones later have the nRF52840 in them and can do long range bluetooth communication.

Terrence · 18 Jul 2017, 22:04

@NeverDie >>1100-Meters Long-Distance

That would be impressive.

NeverDie · 19 Jul 2017, 01:19

gohan · 19 Jul 2017, 05:54

Maybe @sundberg84 could take inspiration for his easy pcb

Mike_Lemo · 19 Jul 2017, 12:53

how'd you program this blank nrf52832 chip with an SWD programmer like the ST link v2 what programming environment to use and so on?

NeverDie · 19 Jul 2017, 16:31

@Mike_Lemo
I had no luck using the ST link v2 from Windows. You might be luckier, or you might try using it from Linux. However, as discussed above, I have had success using the nRF52832 DK and the Arduino IDE from Windows. That's how I intend to program the nRF52832 module using the breakout board I posted above.

mtiutiu · 19 Jul 2017, 17:01

@Mike_Lemo

I used the Arduino IDE with sandeepmistry arduino core installed and I managed to program a nrf51822 module with success. I used a cheap st-link programmer from AliExpress. I don't know about nrf52832 as I don't have one. But I don't see why it wouldn't work. You need 4 wires: Vdd(3.3V), GND, SWD and SWCLK.
From Arduino IDE you need to select st-link as programmer.
It uses openocd under the hood to do the work and it worked both on Windows and Linux. On Linux you might need to set udev rules for allowing regular user to use the st-link.

NeverDie · 19 Jul 2017, 18:17

@mtiutiu said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

I managed to program a nrf51822 module with success.

Did you power the nrf51822 through the st-link programmer, or did you power it independently?

Mike_Lemo · 19 Jul 2017, 19:15

@mtiutiu And when you want to program an independent chip with the ST link V2 do you just chose "generic nrf52"?

Also how is it possible to connect between through two NRF52s in slave master config?
Is it possible to take advantage of the NFC functionality with that programming environment?

NeverDie · 19 Jul 2017, 19:17

Good news! I received my second nRF52832 DK today, so now I can have a DK on both ends of a link. Bottom line: I ran some quick tests, and it has much better range than the Adafruit nRF52832 Feather.

Whew! What a relief. The Adafruit had very disappointing range. In contrast, and as expected, the two DK's have better range than regular nRF24L01+ radios.

Mike_Lemo · 19 Jul 2017, 19:18

@NeverDie How did you manage to send and receive data between these two units? may you share the code with us?

NeverDie · 19 Jul 2017, 19:21

@Mike_Lemo
I'm simply using the GatewaySerial and the LightSensor sketches from the mysensors developers release. Just make the following change in each sketch:

//#define MY_RADIO_NRF24
#define MY_RADIO_NRF5_ESB

mtiutiu · 19 Jul 2017, 19:34

@NeverDie

Powered from st-link programmer.

mtiutiu · 19 Jul 2017, 19:38

@Mike_Lemo

I used generic and no soft device as Mysensors doesn't use soft devices. I don't know about master-slave, didn't used such a configuration.

You need to create another variant for other pin definitions as this is the way arduino framework works as far as I know.

Never used NFC so I can't give you hints on that, sorry.

NeverDie · 20 Jul 2017, 02:18

Looks as though these guys came up with a fairly easy way to develop using actual bluetooth low energy: http://mklec.com/project-kits/kd-circuits/bluetooth-low-energy-board-anaren-A20737-module

Unfortunately, I don't believe it runs on the nRF5 though.

NeverDie · 20 Jul 2017, 14:45

More good news! I was able to program a Sparkfun nrf52832 board using the DK, and its range is better than the Adafruit nRF52832 Feather and also better than an nRF24L01+.

So, my provisional conclusion is to avoid chip antennas, such as Adafruit is using, if better range is desired.

Looks as though the nRF52832 sparkfun board has more of a conventional trace antenna:

though isn't it somewhat odd that it appears to also be directly connected to the ground plane(?), or at least a copper pour. Is that normal? This was one of the images produced by sending their .BRD file to oshpark, so that I could get a look at the antenna.

Also, this now gives me a "known good" platform, namely the Sparkfun nRF52832 board, to order PCB's for and try to see if I can successfully solder on any of the bonus nRF52832 chips I received with my two DK's.

NeverDie · 21 Jul 2017, 01:17

Apparently you can now run micropython on an nRF52832 board:
MicroPython nRF52 Firmware Compile & Flash with Tony D! – 1:11:04
— Adafruit Industries

It's still early days, but it sounds like fun. For one thing, since it's a dynamic language, OTA updates should be easy!

Terrence · 21 Jul 2017, 14:01

@NeverDie Wow, that it really good news. I was following Tony's videos on mpy on the ESP chips, but had not checked back lately.

NeverDie · 21 Jul 2017, 21:24

@Nca78 said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

For shipment delay I wouldn't be surprised if they shipped the same way with free option and it would just be a different way to state the delay on the 2 websites...

You were right: I received both the ebay and the aliexpress packages today. Even for e-packet, that's pretty fast shipping! In fact, they arrived before any of the other items I ordered from other vendors. So, at least that part went well.

NeverDie · 21 Jul 2017, 22:43

Does the E73-2G4M04S require anything extra in order to be programmed?

Today I tried programming it the same way that I have successfully with both the adafruit and the Sparkfun nRF52832 boards using the DK, but the DK keeps complaining that the E73-2G4M04S may not be connected.

Nca78 · 22 Jul 2017, 01:24

@NeverDie if I remember well in the datasheet they say you have to put the softdevice on it first.

NeverDie · 22 Jul 2017, 01:34

Yeah, here's what it says:

The module embedded with ARM MCU. For program downloading, please use the J-LINK downloader, any other serial port or JTAG、ISP、ICP are
unavailable to download.

There’s two parts to download the program. Because the protocol stack
of NORDIC is not programmed yet, so users need to use the official nRFgo
studio of NORDIC to program the protocol stack first, then program the hex of application code. Or, to program the protocol stack of NORDIC first and
download via the IAR or KEIL.

Seems odd, but I'll give it a try.

NeverDie · 22 Jul 2017, 02:34

It's not clear whether the DK can/should be used for this part of it, as it's unclear (at least to me) whether it will end up altering the target chip or the DK. I'm just not sure. So, to do at least this ambiguous part of it, I'll first check whether or not the nRFgo studio software will work with one of the other programmers I've collected (not the DK). That may take a while...

mtiutiu · 22 Jul 2017, 05:19

@NeverDie

Why don't you try to program it with a st-link programmer and arduino ide with sandeepmistry nrf5 core installed? I bought that module(E73-2G4M04S) too and I want to know how this part goes. Thanks.

scalz · 22 Jul 2017, 11:37

@Nca78 said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

@NeverDie if I remember well in the datasheet they say you have to put the softdevice on it first.

@NeverDie
you need to do this if you're using ble, it's the nordic stack running ble etc behind the scene.
For using nrf52 with MySensors, you don't need to do this. Also, MySensors & the softdevice can't run at the same time for the moment afaik.

this module should work like others module, by following nrf52 datasheet.
looking at their datasheet, you maybe could add (i don't know if it's already onboard):

100pf on DEC2
0.1uf on DEC1 (but they have no DEC1 1) it's already onboard, 2) there is a typo error on their datasheet ?? as DEC5 doesn't exist on nrf52)
decoupling power

then it's just a matter of swd programming (3v,gnd,DIO,CLK)

You can take a look at nordic datasheet, or adafruit howtos are nice too.

NeverDie · 22 Jul 2017, 12:34

@scalz said in nRF5 Bluetooth action!:

0.1uf on DEC1 (but they have no DEC1 1) it's already onboard, 2) there is a typo error on their datasheet ?? as DEC5 doesn't exist on nrf52)

Great catch! Based in part on proximity to the DEC1 pins in the Ebyte datasheet, I'm guessing you've nailed it and that "DEC5" is actually DEC1.

Here's Nordic's pinout:

For other readers'convenience, here is a link (courtesy of NCA78) to Ebyte's datasheet:
https://forum.mysensors.org/assets/uploads/files/1499826952956-e73-2g4m04s_datasheet_en_v1.1.pdf

Besides, as you point out, there is no actual DEC5 according to the Nordic pinout, so what else could "DEC5" be?

I've just now emailed the seller to ask this question, but for now I'll assume you've nailed it. Great work!

NeverDie · 22 Jul 2017, 13:10

Seems as though we're somewhat shooting in the dark, though, without a schematic of what Ebyte actually did on the module. For instance, I had assumed that all this (plus whatever else is needed) had already been implemented on the Ebyte module. Relative to the Nordic nRF52832 chip size, the Ebyte moduile is already a pretty big module!

Mike_Lemo · 22 Jul 2017, 14:19

I'm tring to blink an led on a PCB I made not realy knowing how to program the IC before other than connection the SWD pins.

I've followed the startup guide at github flashed the soft device probably successful using the ST link V2(while flashing the soft device it blinked the on board st link V2 led and at the end the blue led on my PCB stopped being on.)

So I've got an RGB led connected to my PCB to pins:

#define RGBL_RED_PIN P0.16
#define RGBL_GREEN_PIN P0.15
#define RGBL_BLUE_PIN P0.17

now for a test to see if I got it right I want to blink each of them how would I do it?

What is the arduino pin mapping?

NeverDie · 22 Jul 2017, 14:28