$8 Lamp (Outlet) "Smart Plug" Module
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@johnr said:
servicexp, no I guess it have only over current protection.
I am going to test a smaller 5w converter. MW irm-05-5 which I was able to get for a ok price through work. It has also smaller physical dimensions.
Nice, let us know how it works! I also find I run out of chargers. Thankfully I can get them from work occasionally when people recycle their old phone chargers.
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Or hotel lost and found...
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@BulldogLowell yeah, good idea! I wonder if electronics stores may have them too. I know Best Buy has a electronics recycling program. Maybe they get them there too? I just got a fresh supply from work so I should be good for a little while
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Hey Hi. Awesome project.
Just a quick though, could i just a Pro mini 5V and skip the whole voltage regulator part? or would that need some additional changes to the project?Thank
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@Mohsin-Hassan Do you mean a 3.3v pro mini? If so, then you should be able to. The radio requires 3.3v to work. You would need to take the 5v from the phone charger to power the relay.
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Hello, how are you?
Man, I understood how you do this project, but Have one thing I doesn't understand, How you sync the plug with your cellphone?
Because intro the plug have a Arduino and RF Module.
Could you explain me?
Thx
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@DanielD said:
How you sync the plug with your cellphone?
I use a Vera for my home automation controller. MySensors has a plugin for Vera so the cellphone app is actually for Vera. I can issue a command through my phone to Vera which will then send the command to the MySensors device.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Pete
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Okay, I thought that you create a device smilar to Vera.
Because I thinking do this.
Do you have any ideia how I do this?
Thx
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@DanielD said:
Do you have any ideia how I do this?
No, sorry. It would probably be easier for you to use an existing controller that already works with MySensors though. Check out the list here: http://www.mysensors.org/controller/
I'm sure some of them already have phone apps but I'm not sure which ones. I haven't looked at anything other than Vera.
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@petewill
mm, I will install one of these in my PC and I will buy a ethernet bord, and make a gateway ethernet.
But what I do not understand is How the Web Site will send a rf signal from arduino
Okay I know I should connect the ethernet bord in arduino and rf transmisor, but how do
sensor received this signal I know I will put rf receiver inside.
But the code of ethernet gateway doesn't have nothing about the transmissor.
If you don't understand something ask me.
Thx
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@DanielD said:
But the code of ethernet gateway doesn't have nothing about the transmissor.
Right. That's where the controller comes in. I use Vera so when I press the on button in the Vera interface it sends the command through the gateway to the sensor (smart outlet).
If you are try do it cheaply you may want to look into openhab. I haven't used it but I know it runs on a raspberry pi.
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Hmm,Okay
I will try make a device type Vera because,in my country doesn't exists.
If I buy at site and ask to ship me Will cost very expensive, therefore I try make a device similar to vera
Could you help me?
Thx
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@DanielD just get yourself an raspberry.
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@andriej
I have a raspberry, but I think use only arudino.
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@DanielD said:
therefore I try make a device similar to vera
Could you help me?Unfortunately I don't know how to do that. The best thing I can suggest is to use one of the existing controllers. If you already have a raspberry pi there is free software for it. Try one of those. That way you don't have to recreate anything.
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Hmm,
Okay, but I think I don't understand is how I will do the communication between getway ethernet and another device.
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@DanielD said:
I don't understand is how I will do the communication between getway ethernet and another device.
You probably want to check out this: http://www.mysensors.org/about/ and this: http://www.openhab.org/
It will will take some learning and I suggest you start out small. See if you can get OpenHab up and running first. When you understand that you can start using MySensors. I had my Vera for a few months before I started learning MySensors. It was helpful to learn the controller before MySensors.
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Thank you very much for detailed description!
But I cannot understand how to send commands from OpenHab to turn relay on and off. Please direct me.
After a long time I can finally get the messages from sensors via serial connection, but not the other way.
Cheers!
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@almj I use Vera as my controller so I'm not sure how to set up OpenHab. I know there are some instructions for setting it up here on the forum. If you're still stuck you may get better responses by posting to a new topic. Sorry I can't be more help.
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Is it really that difficult or expensive to get old chargers?
I found 10 for $10.99 on ebay.
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@bytedeez Nah, it's not that hard or expensive. It's always nice to get them free when you can though
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Hello,
Which is connected to the relay in the diagram???
Thanks,
Douglas (Brasil)
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@Douglas I just used the standard wiring from the build page here: http://www.mysensors.org/build/relay
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Hi @petewill!
I made this Great video I think i get bad reception or something because it works the first 5-6 times and then nothing...
In the end you describe an cat5 wire added as antenna because of bad reception.
Do you remove the plastic/shielding so its just copper?
Im afraid to short anything out with a long uncovered antenna if thats the case...and if i hear you right its 3,28 inches which should be 33,31200 millimeters on the antenna?
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@sundberg84 said:
Hi @petewill!
I made this Great video I think i get bad reception or something because it works the first 5-6 times and then nothing...
This could also be a power or a wiring issue. But, the antenna is an easy modification so it wouldn't hurt to try this first. Another test is to move the device closer to your gateway. If it still stops after 5-6 times then it probably isn't communication issues.
In the end you describe an cat5 wire added as antenna because of bad reception.
Do you remove the plastic/shielding so its just copper?
Im afraid to short anything out with a long uncovered antenna if thats the case...No, I left the shielding on the wire. Sorry, I should have specified that.
and if i hear you right its 3,28 inches which should be 33,31200 millimeters on the antenna?
I think 3.28 inches is 83.312 millimeters (at least that's what google says it is).
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I have these lockups all the time and have not been able to get rid of them. I tried:
- separated power supplies
- capacitors
- shielding
Most probably (in my case) is the spike introduced by the coil of the relay. This somehow puts the radio in a sleep (or half dead) state. By moving away from mechanical to triac (ssd) 'relays' I was finaly able to solve it. If you find a solution please post.
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@AWI Hmm, ok... will give it a try and report back if i find anything...
It seems to be both range and spikes? The sensor works great without anything connected to 240v out but as soon as i connect anything like a lamp it fails within 5 on/off. Also when i move it close to the gw but then atleast it works without any 240v connected.
The SSD relays, is that something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-5V-DC-1-Channel-Solid-State-Relay-Board-module-High-Level-fuse-for-arduino-/191563980850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2c9a1a6032Any downsides with SSR relays?
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@sundberg84 I have never found these before. Sounds like an interesting option. Made myself boards like these
The 'downside' of these is that there can be a leak voltage when the output is left open.
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@AWI Your link didnt work (typo)
Ill give these a try and let post if they are any good.
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@AWI said:
I have these lockups all the time and have not been able to get rid of them. I tried:
- separated power supplies
- capacitors
- shielding
Most probably (in my case) is the spike introduced by the coil of the relay. This somehow puts the radio in a sleep (or half dead) state. By moving away from mechanical to triac (ssd) 'relays' I was finaly able to solve it. If you find a solution please post.
Strange. I have been using mine for months without any issues. It is triggered by motion in my family room so it is used every day multiple times. Were you powering the relay from the Arduino or directly from the 5v?
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@petewill In my case from VCC from arduino. I try to change incoming to raw and see if that makes any differens.
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@sundberg84 said:
@petewill In my case from VCC from arduino. I try to change incoming to raw and see if that makes any differens.
Yeah, let me know. It's been a while, so I don't remember what project I had issues with, but I had issues with power when I was using the Arduino 5V. I always try to pull power from the source (not Arduino) whenever I can now. Hopefully this will help your issue.
-
Now the relay powers up, and i can switch (led turns on) but no click/coil activation so no 240v power out. Changed the relay but same result. I have 5v relay vcc and 5v on in but nothing... strange.
-
@sundberg84 try the relay by itself first - connect to 5v and gnd and give it signal (even by just touching a wire to the signal leg). I had a run of several dead relays (was because of non rectified power supply so they switched on and off 50 times a second... one of the best ways to kill a relay I think)
-
@sundberg84 said:
Now the relay powers up, and i can switch (led turns on) but no click/coil activation so no 240v power out. Changed the relay but same result. I have 5v relay vcc and 5v on in but nothing... strange.
Wow, that is strange. I am using 5 or so different relays all around my house every day and I've never had this issues. I always connect them to 5v directly from the dc transformer (old cell phone chargers).
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Hi,
any possibility of including a push button to manually trigger the switch on and off as well?
And if possible update Vera on the status change.This way i can make it Wife safe and not get kicked out of the house...
I'm not good with coding but if someone can point me in the right direction please...
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There is a scetch in mysensors lib doing this. Relayaccuatorwithbutton or something. Download the examplescetches and have a look: http://www.mysensors.org/build/relay#relaywithbuttonactuator-example @Mohsin-Hassan
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@petewill @Moshe-Livne . Coil activates when i try with a 9v battery, so either bad/cheap relays or to weak power plug. All measures +5v but its not enough. Ill order some new relays.
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@sundberg84 IMHO 9v will fry the relay. max voltage is 5.5v if my failing memory serves. depends on your relay, naturally but this is the most common one. have a look at the datasheet https://www.ghielectronics.com/downloads/man/20084141716341001RelayX1.pdf
yes it is 5.5v - nominal 5v, max current is 110%. I am sure it can sustain 6 but 9v will be really pushing it IMHO
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It was only to test coil failure and see if it was a power issue
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@sundberg84 A self fulfilling prophecy
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@Mohsin-Hassan said:
Hi,
any possibility of including a push button to manually trigger the switch on and off as well?
And if possible update Vera on the status change.This way i can make it Wife safe and not get kicked out of the house...
I'm not good with coding but if someone can point me in the right direction please...
We are discussing this over here: http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1607/safe-in-wall-ac-to-dc-transformers
You want to be careful you use the right transformer so you don't burn your house down.
The wife probably wouldn't appreciate that.I really want to do this too. I'm just waiting for the experts to weigh in on which transformer is safe.
-
@sundberg84 said:
@petewill @Moshe-Livne . Coil activates when i try with a 9v battery, so either bad/cheap relays or to weak power plug. All measures +5v but its not enough. Ill order some new relays.
So strange that it's not working. What is the power rating of your 5V transformer? Do you have a picture of your set up?
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I dont reallt wants to admit it...
Well, I ordered the 5v relay from ebay (i have the reciept!) and looking at petewill video it says SRD-05VDC-
Looking at mine it says SRD-12VDC so probalby the sent me a 12v relay...New one will arive soon i hope
Thank you for the help and sorry for clogging the thread.
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@sundberg84 that makes so much sense! And its not even your fault!
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@sundberg84 That's good news! Unfortunately you have to wait for new one but at least it's an easy fix!
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@petewill
Just out of interest: how did You come up with the length for the antenna?
I remember vaguely that You can calculate the length if You know the
used frequency but You connect Your wire to an already existing PCB-Antenna...Christoph
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@hyla I actually recently did a separate video on how I do this with a little more explanation. If you're interested it's here:
Cheap DIY NRF24L01 Antenna Modification – 02:48
— Pete BIn summary, I measured the length of the existing antenna on the PCB then added additional wire to get it up to the required length for the 2.4GHz range (4.92 in).
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Thanx
Meanwhile I did some research too. The formula (as You all know
) is:
Lambda (m) = c(m/s) / f(1/s) with
c= 299711000 m/s
f= 2.400.000.000 hzwhich comes down to 0.1248795833333333 m or roughly 4.92 in
The 1.64 in that are used on the PCB are actually Lambda/3.Nicely done, Pete
C.
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@petewill
Now i got three working relays thanks to you, so again, great video!
Wanted to thank you and also show my sollution.
I hade some 433mhz cheap (not good working) relays with perfect case i could re-use:
The case had a status-led and a switch i use as well.
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@sundberg84 Cool! That's nice to have a case like that.
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@sundberg84
Nice! That one deserves its own project thread. I think we're many interested in the details.
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This is may realisation
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Hi @petewill
I've tried this and had inconclusive results rather then a significant extended rage. Not sure what I'm doing wrong or if it's the quality of my RF module.
I've used some wire (8.33 cm) I had left over but its not one solid copper wire, its has many "strings" inside. In your experiment did you use one solid copper wire and can this influence this hack?
Thanks
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@barduino I am using solid copper cat5e wire. I don't know much about antennas but it may change the behavior. Do you have any old cat5 that you can cut and test with?
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I'm going to try it.
I'm also using a capacitor on the RF module, not sure if you did combine both techniques.
On a last note, I've noticed some power setting on the MyConfig.h (1.5 lib) cant remember the values form 1.4.1
/********************************** * NRF24L01 Driver Defaults ***********************************/ #define RF24_CE_PIN 9 #define RF24_CS_PIN 10 #define RF24_PA_LEVEL RF24_PA_MAX #define RF24_PA_LEVEL_GW RF24_PA_LOWSo now I'm initializing the gatweway as
// Instanciate MySersors Gateway MyTransportNRF24 transport(RF24_CE_PIN, RF24_CS_PIN, RF24_PA_LEVEL);instead of
// Instanciate MySersors Gateway MyTransportNRF24 transport(RF24_CE_PIN, RF24_CS_PIN, RF24_PA_LEVEL_GW);Not sure if there is a significant diference here...
The results i'm getting now (after removing the antena, but with capacitor and changes on 1.5 MyConfig) are similar to the results I got from lib 1.4.1 with capacitor. I have a repeater about 15 meters from gateway and if i put it 17 meters it doesnt work anymore (there are some walls on the way)
I'll just add a solid copper antena to see if results change.
Thanks for the info!
Cheers
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@barduino Yes, I always use a capacitor to filter power to my radio. I recently have been using 3.3v Pro Mini Arduinos so I have just been putting a 4.7uf cap very close to the radio.
As far as I know the RF24_PA_LEVEL_GW is only used for the gateway. You can change the power level in the config file for the sensors but it looks like you already had it at the MAX. You can play with the power level depending on your radio model used with the gateway. On my gateway I experimented with an external antenna type radio and if it was set on max it completely wrecked my z-wave communication (there must have been interference like crazy since they are different frequencies). If you are using the PCB type antenna you can probably increase the power level to max without any issues. It's been a while since I did anything with my gateway (it's been working great for months) so I don't remember what settings I'm using. I do know I have the antenna hacked radio instead of the external antenna.
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One thing to note is that adding an external antenna extension to the on-PCB antenna moves this into the realm of "RF magic". What I mean is that it becomes a very non-standard sort of hybrid antenna about which we can predict very little. Like receiving television with rabbit ears and aluminum foil, you will mostly have to work by trial and error rather than exact calculations.
The on-PCB antenna should already be tuned for the RF wavelength, probably near the middle of the band. We can also calculate the appropriate length for a straight wire used INSTEAD OF the on-PCB. But when we solder a wire onto the PCB antenna, we wind up with a very complex antenna which may or may not work very well (but in general it's far easier to make a random antenna work poorly than to make it work well). There are questions of antenna gain (or attenuation), but also of directionality - adding the wire might make it transmit/receive better in some directions and worse in other directions!
Part of my point is that we cannot necessarily predict the best length of wire to solder to the on-PCB antenna by using the calculations that would apply with no PCB antenna. It may depend where on the PCB antenna trace you solder the extra wire, and perhaps on how the wire gets bent (especially if it comes near electrical conductors).
So after you have the node placed where you want it (including the orientation), you can try moving the added antenna around in the case for better reception - and you can also try changing the wire length because 8.33 cm is not necessarily optimal for this hybrid antenna. Of course it's easier to shorten a wire by just successively chopping off a little bit at a time; you can solder in a new wire if need be.
The length does not have to be super precise by the way - a loose wire antenna is not a highly tuned (Hi-Q) antenna and a slightly suboptimal length doesn't dramatically alter the results. Which is good, since the modules operate over a range of frequencies - and because even without the PCB antenna to really complicate things, even the PCB trace between the chip and the wire is part of the tuning as well, not just the bendable wire.
Stranded wire vs solid should not have a large effect, compared to the many other factors involved here.
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Hi Pete,
I'm new to this forum, but I wanted to give you a big thumbs up. I really enjoyed watching your videos and I learned a lot from watching them. It's because of people like you that made me decide to start using MySensors.
I have an old 433Mhx power plug that is broken. I see if I can turn it in to a MySensors power plug
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@Zeph I agree. This is complicated stuff that I don't even begin to grasp. That said it is a cheap and easy hack to try. In my case it has helped every time. Maybe I just got lucky but it helped enough of my nodes that I thought I'd at least tell people about it. If it doesn't work, then just remove the wire and no harm done. Thanks for all your contributions to the site. Your knowledge is helping a lot of people.
@TheoL Thanks for the kind words! Although, credit really goes to @hek and the team. They are the geniuses that make this all work! Good luck with "mysensoring" the old power plug. But, be careful, it's addicting.
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@petewill just to be clear - I appreciate your posting that adding the loose wire to the on-PCB antenna helped, and I'm not discouraging that. If it works, it works! Mostly I wanted people to understand that it's going to be trial and error, rather than something where they can count on calculating the best length (because it's added to another antenna at an unanticipated point, rather than being a standalone wire antenna). It would not surprise me if somebody found that a 6.5 cm wire worked better than 8.33cm, for their particular case (picking an example length at random). Wiggle those rabbit ears!
I love the examples you post and your excellent videos. I have modestly good knowledge here and there, with gaps in other places, and your working examples give me confidence/inspiration to build something I haven't before - along with practical (not just theoretical) advice. You even turn your minor mistakes into lessons - how it should have been done, and how you managed to work around it anyway. Keep them coming!
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@Zeph said:
Mostly I wanted people to understand that it's going to be trial and error, rather than something where they can count on calculating the best length (because it's added to another antenna at an unanticipated point, rather than being a standalone wire antenna). It would not surprise me if somebody found that a 6.5 cm wire worked better than 8.33cm, for their particular case (picking an example length at random). Wiggle those rabbit ears!
I agree. The more knowledge provided to people the better hopefully it will result in better communicating nodes. Thanks for the posts!
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@petewill Off course I'm very gratefull for what @hek and the team created. I've been playing with mySensors for a week now. And I'm still amazed by it. It's so easy to use. And I haven't had a failure yet. I'm currently promoting MySensors to everyone I know ;-).
@hek Do you happen to have some small stickers with the MySensors logo? Ik would love to put them on the sensors I create. Something like "Powered by MySensors"?
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@TheoL said:
Do you happen to have some small stickers with the MySensors logo? Ik would love to put them on the sensors I create. Something like "Powered by MySensors"?
Good idea. But currently not something we have.
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I like the idea of logo stickers. Better in some ways than typical swag like t-shirts and coffee cups, because if it goes on the devices we build that provides useful information, not just advertising. Maybe leave a blank section where a node number could optionally be written in with a sharpie, or a version.
Maybe "Networked by MySensors.org" rather than powered? ("Telepathy by MySensors"?)
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@Zeph How about Wired by MySensors
Because my experience is that it seems like all sensors and the gateway are wired together because of MySensors.
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Dome Stickers would be nice
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Custom-Made-with-Your-design-Clear-Dome-Resin-Sticker-Epoxy-Stickers-Label-1000pcs-free-shipping/1875126113.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.1.zlyb2BJust wonder how we should make them cost-effective to buy for the community...
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@hek they look good to me! Maybe you can start a poll on this forum. Ask the members who would like to buy the stickers. If the majority wants them, we can order them.
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The domes are kind of cool for some things, but I think for this purpose I'd actually prefer flat stickers that fit smoothly on any side of a project box, even curved, without protruding and looking like something that should be pressed, or that should light up.
(OTOH domes atop an illuminated button (assuming translucent backing) would be awesome in some cases)
And with flat, (re) distribution in small batches is easier - one could get a lot of them in a minimum-postage conventional letter.
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Hi Pete,
I'm thinking of using the AMS1117 3.3v regulator. Can I still use the 0.1uF and 10uF capacitors or do I need to use others. Because I run into sites saying I need to use 100uF and 1000uF and I think the difference is pretty big.
Regards,
Kenney
btw: Great video! It helped me a lot!!
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@Kenney-R said:
I'm thinking of using the AMS1117 3.3v regulator. Can I still use the 0.1uF and 10uF capacitors or do I need to use others.
Yes, that should be fine. The capacitors are there to help filter the power to the radio (which can be sensitive).
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Regarding adding wires to the on-PCB antenna of a nRF24L01+ module, here's someone who used two wires (andcut some traces) to create a dipole. He knew that it was hard to really calculate the appropriate values, so he did empirical testing to find the best lengths, using a test program.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Enhanced-NRF24L01/
And is this from the same Pete or another one?
Cheap DIY NRF24L01 Antenna Modification – 02:48
— Pete B
-
Another interesting (albeit long) video testing range of various modules and antennae.
Ultimate nRF24L01 range comparison – 38:17
— iforce2dThe interoperability of different types is somewhat surprising. Some had only a 2/3 packet success ratio even at close range, but retained that for a long distance, for example. He did try cap vs no cap, and with "whip" (really more of a stubby or rubber ducky style) antenna parallel or with one pointing at the other. The unit with PA+LNA and shield was overall pretty good for range.
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@Zeph thanks for sharing. Always better to have more info and hopefully better range!
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@sundberg84 how are you powering the arduino?
-
@dayve218
Im using a USB charger as pete does in the video but mine is a iphone charger instead of a samsung.
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Nice project, both Petewill and sundberg84.
I was just wandering if you @sundberg84 know more about what is the device type/model/manufacturer you were moding?I've used quite some time and effort to find localy some good case that I can modify, I did manage to hack some of them but they are just not quite reliable (something with power just kills caps too often).
Thanks in advance, sorry for bringing up old topic (but it is a very good one
)
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@dakipro - Its a low brand 433mhz wall plugs i bought in Sweden called Everflourish emw100r. I dont think they are sold anymore. Its probably some china brand so maybe they are sold in another name.
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So I have been thinking of building some relay controlled power strip nodes similar to these, but there have been some issues that I have been thinking about. The first is that if I am going to use a relay to turn on an outlet, the relay would need to be powered the entire time that I would want that device on. This would mean that not only am I powering the device that is plugged in, but the power to keep the relay on also. Wouldn't it be smarter to use latching relays? At least with those you don't need to keep power to the relay while your outlet is on. Has anyone ever done a MySensors node with latching relays? If so, how do you manage monitoring the state of the device?
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out of the curiosity, what is downside of powering the relay entire time?
that is how (all) wall switches work out of the box, you press the button and they turn on/off by powering the relay (all the time).
I think that they work quite reliably when it comes to keeping power to the reley
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@dakipro I wouldn't say that ALL wall switches work that way. And when you say (all) wall switches, what are you referring to? Standard (non automated) wall switches don't use relays. Also, most if not all of the X10 relay modules and wall switches that I have use latching relays.
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I meant these typical automated/controlled wall switches mentioned in the topic http://www.nexa.se/vara-produkter/system-nexa/mottagare-paav/eycr-2300
I opened 6-7 different ones to find the right casing for some projects, and they all had "regular" relay that goes back when the power is off (thus being powered the whole time). Of course I didn't open every single one of them, that is why I put (all) in parentheses.
I am also not the expert on the relay topic, that is why I asked what is the downside
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@petewill greetings sir.. Im getting error in your source code.. Maybe imported a wrong library.. Sir can i ask where did u get your MySensors.h library.. I get mine in codebender..
My error is..
MySensor gw;
MySensor does not a nametype
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@Christian-Tollas This code has not yet been updated for MySensors version 2.0. I am still on version 1.5. When I finally upgrade my setup to 2.0 I will post the updated code but I'm not sure when that will be. If you want to go back to 1.5 for the time being that should work for you.
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Hello,
I'm newbie at this and I'm trying to make this, but I think my hardware needs to be different sinces my home voltage is arround 220V, does this hardware can handle this voltage or do I need to buy other capacitators ?
Thanks
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@dseveriano as always you need to be very careful when using these voltages. That being said, this should work without any other hardware except for a phone charger rated for 220 (which I believe most are). The relay I used was rated for 10A 250VAC. I wouldn't go as high as 10A though.
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@petewill Thank you, just one more question!
What board is that, the red one where the relay is ? Is that necessary or can I put the relay in the same board ?
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@dseveriano Sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking. What board are you referring to?
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@petewill Sorry the board I was refering was the relay board!!
Regarding the current detection module wich one do you recommend ?
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@dseveriano Yes, the red board is the relay board which will control your 220V power.
I haven't done much with current detecting but the module I was playing with was the ACS712. I found that even when no power was running through it there was still a few watts reported. Maybe that's a simple fix but I never really looked into it.
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Did you integrate power meter function to your systeme?
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@jeremushka I haven't done it on the smart outlet but I did do it on my "Whole House Fan" project. You can check out the code from that if you're interested. Here is a link to the video if you wanted to check that out: https://youtu.be/KVsUe7sOCPo
Also, just make sure you check out the specs on the acs712 and don't pass through more current than is safe. I don't remember the specs off the top of my head but I knew my whole house fan was safe because of what it would be drawing
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Welcome
Announcements • • hek
