110v-230v AC to Mysensors PCB board
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Nice job. Why do you need to bridge the 230V lines? Can't you just make the traces bigger? Is it really needed? The relay can only switch 2A. So the traces have to survive 2A, too. You can easily calculate the required traces with tools like this: http://circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/2006/01/31/pcb-trace-width-calculator/
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@Jan-Gatzke I've used a similar calculator before and according to these calculation it isn't mandatory.
- Dirtypcbs.com claims to use 1oz/ft2 copper thickness (which seems to be 0.035mm).
- The traces between the solid state relay and connectors are all 2mm wide.
- Distance between the solid state relay and the connector on the edge is less than 20mm.
That would lead to the following calculations:
So you are right that it isn't mandatory to reinforce these traces. However, to be on the safe side I'm still planning to reinforce them. I know, it probably isn't necessary but it doesn't hurt putting this extra effort in, just to be completely safe.
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Keep in mind, that you do not want to run the relay at 2A for a longer period of time. 2A at 230V means 460 W power consumption. Most devices / lights will consume less. So hopefully this will never be a problem.
Again, great job. I will definitely order some of the pcbs, too.
What about the other parts? Do you have some kind of link collection for Ebay/Ali? This would make it even easier to build the device.
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@Jan-Gatzke Indeed, most of my lights only consume like 10% of the maximum rated power, so I should be on the safe side for sure.
I have attached a ZIP file which contains all required information in one of my previous posts (HERE). That one contains a Word document with all components and an AliExpress/Ebay link.
I'll try and see if I can update the first post of this topic as well to include all important information.
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Ok, lazy me didn't have a look at the zip. Tanks for the hint.
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@aproxx This looks very cool! I am curious what (if any) heat sink will be used with the solid state relay? I have never used a solid state relay but I have been reading about them and it seems that most are used with a heat sink. Maybe it depends on the amperage that will be switched though. Thanks!
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The SSR has an integrated heat sink according to the specs. Don't know if this is a knockoff and follows the same standard of quality though. Given the low A rating, and the fact that most of us will be switching a 10-20W worth of lights, I think it will be fine.
I noticed the ceramic "Slow Blow Fuse (250v 0.3A)" was out of stock on Ebay. As was the 0.2A version. Someone is stocking up
Would it have to be a ceramic fuse?
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@bjornhallberg Thanks. I still have some reading to do...
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@bjornhallberg said:
was out of stock on Ebay. As was the 0.2A version. Someone is stocking up
oops! You wanted some?just kidding, let me check I have a line on parts I will see if they have some.
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@DrJeff I actually bought the 0.2A version myself before it was gone
But I was surprised to find how hard it was to find axial ceramic fuses of the right size or at the right price. Maybe we could find some sort of small fuse holder instead?
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@bjornhallberg said:
Maybe we could find some sort of small fuse holder instead?
I know its probably not the best thing to do but I have just soldered on leads, bare wire. I just tin the metal first and scuff it a little. I have done the same thing to batteries with no ill effect.The key is get in and off quickly!
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@aproxx I'm hoping to receive the boards soon (they were sent almost two weeks ago) and have one question for you.
I've had a quick look at your example code in the Word document but I'm not familiar with Arduino Debouncing. My question is what kind of switch is the best to use, a standard On/Off switch or a Pulse switch?
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@mvdarend I'm not sure if I completely understand what you mean by "pulse switch"..
I was planning on using a normal light switch, in order to have an on/off (open and closed) circuit.
But it shouldn't be a problem to modify the code a bit in case you're using some other buttons (like a push button for example). I'm sure me or somebody else on this forum can help you with your code in case it shouldn't work out as expected.
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@aproxx said:
@mvdarend I'm not sure if I completely understand what you mean by "pulse switch"..
Thanks for your reply, a 'pulse switch' is basically a push button type switch like you mentioned. I'll see if I can get it working when the boards come in. (I've already got all the other parts)
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NIce little boards! I received mine yesterday
after a few hiccups I got it working fairly quickyl.Two small things that might need your attention:
- The holes for fuse2 were too small for the resettable fuses I bought, had to drill them out a tiny bit.
- I think the LE33 is the wrong way around in the pictures. I kept getting a "Check wires" message in the debugger. After checking a number of things I noticed that the voltage to the radio was too high. After looking at the diagrams I noticed that the LE33 is the wrong way around, after desoldering and turning it around (flat side facing Fuse2) the unit worked as expected.
For anyone else that bought the 5.5v DC varistors from the given link, double check them before using them. I received a few that were defective, there was absolutely no resistance between the two poles. Causing Fuse2 to get a bit warm
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Hi! Nice!
Is this board 5x5cm? If so it might be to big for my in-wall projects.
This is a board thats 5x5 on top of a standard whatsitsname...
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@mvdarend Thanks for the feedback! Happy to hear that it's working fine on your side as well. Although I do find it strange that the LE33 seems to be the other way around on your board? Maybe I just made a mistake with the silkscreen, and should the LE33 be on the bottom side? Anyway, I'll make sure to address this as soon as I possible (probably somewhere during next week). Sorry for the possible inconvenience, but thanks for pointing this out!
@sundberg84 The board dimension are about 4.2x4.7cm, so it is quite small. However, I'm afraid that because of the NRF24L01 module, and the 230v connections to it, it wouldn't really fit the box you have on that picture (assuming the board you have there is 5x5cm)..
Somewhere in the next week or 2 I'll try to design a custom 3d printable plastic box for the board that I've designed. Together with a 2-relay board as requested by @jemish .
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I spoke too soon... the unit seems to work well, but I hadn't tested if the relay actually switched or not. The status seems to change fine in the serial monitor, but it doesn't seem to be actually switching. I'll have to do some more troubleshooting.
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@aproxx My first project with your design, Thanks
p.s. the regulator needs to be mounted "reversed" from the silk screen. Some puzzling but a lot of fun and top result
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Is it possible to add the option to be able to use RFM69 radio also?
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The board looks really nice! Just one question though; what about temperature protection? In this thread people talks about gluing a thermal fuse on top of the HLK-PM01, is that something you considered or do you think it's unnecessary?
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@cygnus said:
The board looks really nice! Just one question though; what about temperature protection? In this thread people talks about gluing a thermal fuse on top of the HLK-PM01, is that something you considered or do you think it's unnecessary?
Good point, been following this topic because of the other topic about the HLK-PM01 ad to dc regulator. And after extensive testing the outcome was that there should be added the thermal fuse because of additional safety. What do you all think?
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@krizzziz
I have seen in some commercial wall switches thermal cutoff/fuses they are usually to the top of the offending (heat producing components) not necessarily directly touching. I have definitely added them to mine for peace of mind. Like this one:
http://i.imgur.com/rqOawGmm.jpgJust make sure you heat sink when soldering them into place and check them after installation.
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@mvdarend said:
For anyone else that bought the 5.5v DC varistors from the given link, double check them before using them.
I wish I would have read this a week ago. Would have spared me from a "WTF!" moment.
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I'm trying to build this nice litte board. Got a long way but now i'm stuck.
The BOM for version 3.2.3
100nF + 100pF Capacitors
4.7uF CapacitorsSchematics.
c1 100nF
c2 100uF
c3 4.7ufI'm don't have a lot of knowlegde but the 100uF seems te be missing from the BOM. The placement of this part is under the HLK. I have a lot of trouble place the C1 and C2.
I have a ceramic one with number 104 in C2. I thought this is the 100nF. So should it be in C1? But it's so small and nice. And then C2 is missing from the BOM and the only 100uF I have from an other project is big. It realy won't fit under the HLK.
Can some-one give some insight on the BOM, C1 and C2, Ceramic code numbers.
This would realy help me and maybe a few others.Also on my board the holes for the fuse 2 where to small had to drill them out. Second the request for a thermal-fuse. But thanks for this great design.
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What order did people solder the components on?
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Anyone? The part list (ie mapping of CX etc) is in this post - not in the doc with the zip file so makes things very confusing.
Thanks.
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@aproxx Could you clarify the capacitors please? C2 on a post in this thread is 100uF but there are hard to get as ceramics and even the half height ones I have make the arduino stand very high off the board.
Thanks muchly!
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@shabba http://nl.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs-lot-Multilayer-ceramic-capacitor-0-1uF-104-50V-100nF-104M/32429917283.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_7
you can solder these under the processor board
the 100uF does not have to be a ceramic one...
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thanks for reply @AWI - The 100nf one does not go under - it is the 100uF one that does. I have a small electrolytic one (it is slightly smaller than the second link you mention) and there is still not enough space - my arduino is too low - I could try and find higher pin stands. I'm sure some ppl will go off and buy all these parts like me so I hope they are aware. Would have been ideal for a SMD really (like the varistor right beside it).
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@shabba I don't have a 100uF capacitor under the Arduino and don't think there needs to be one... Take a look at the pictures. The two large 4.7 and 100 uF are next to the black box
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I still have trouble figuring out the C1 and C2. Here are some picture of my build so far.
Not sure all the components are placed correctly.C1 is placed with a small 100nf (104) but BOM in zip say's this is wrong.
As you can see i placed this one, cause the 100uf will not fit
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@Quinie looks correct. This is the position of the large capacitors (mind the polarity - minus to the edge of the board)
I also noticed you mounted the regulator correct.
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So the regulator needs swapping about and the BOM cap values are incorrect from post (http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/1540/110v-230v-ac-to-mysensors-pcb-board/37) above that states :::
C1 100nF capacitor
C2 100uF capacitor
C3 4.7uF capacitor?
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Hmmm. I got the 5.5V DC varistor from another AliExpress seller and I'm a bit puzzled as to why it starts smoking after a few seconds. Tried several of them. The HLK gives a solid 5V output. I'm assuming I got some lower voltage varistors by mistake?
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@shabba Right... if you look at the schematics
you can see that the two capacitors can be swapped without consequences
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@bjornhallberg Maybe I've missed reading something, but why use a varistor for 5 Vdc and not a zener diode?
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@AWI Thanks! Very true!
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@m26872 You're probably right, I just followed the BOM. I'll see if I can stock up on some diodes from AliExpress for future use.
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Whould a 5.1V zener work?
edit: removed the link to the product so that no one would buy it the specs of it is to tight to be used with HLK.
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Just a stupid question, the "G3MB-202P DC-AC PCB SSR In 5VDC,Out 240V AC 2A " What happens if I forget and plug something more power-hungry like a toaster or a microwave-owen? does any of the fuses blow or does the relay break ?
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there is no fuse on the relay switch so I guess either the PCB or the relay will fail.
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I've seen commercial products with a thermal fuse glued to the switching side of the relay. Maybe that would help some in such situation.
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@korttoma A 5.1V zener is probably too tight. The HLK seems rated 5+/-0.2V.
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@m26872 Indeed, mine is 5.08V (with no load). I ordered some 5.1V and 5.6V 1206 SMD diodes from Ali for future use. Plus some 3.6V. And a set of DIP diodes.
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@bjornhallberg said:
I ordered some 5.1V and 5.6V 1206 SMD diodes
Just to remember, the typical zeners are 1W , which gives a max of 200mA of output capacity, pretty enough for Arduino+radio, but maybe not enough for many relays / Leds etc. And if they burn due overload, they will allow all voltage/current flowing from PSU into arduino.
That explains why we suggested the varistor, in order to short the PSU output and trigger its internal protection. Strange that your varistors didn't survive... Bad lot? Maybe they are not 5.5V as stated?
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@rvendrame
No.
The zener will only lead current during over voltage condition and only needs to dissapate enough energy till one of your (multiple?) over current protection trips. Just as your varistor setup is supposed to work.
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@m26872 , is it also true in case the PSU itself fail? And what happens if the circuit consumes more current than zener rating? I'm my (poor) knowledge, zeners are more relevant for stabilization, while varistor are effective 'protection' devices...
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@mvdarend You discover your issue with the relay?
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@rvendrame
since we're discussing the PSU secondary side (output side), I think we already presume errors with the PSU. A fuse (over current protection) on the secondary is not just there as a back-up if the PSU internal over current protection fails. The fuse will also prevent your over voltage protection (zener, varistor, ...) from overload/burn/start a fire.The current from PSU to load will not pass through the zener and hence the rating is irrelevant from that perspective. In other applications where a zener is used as voltage regulator, the full load current will pass through the zener when in idleing and then the rating is critical.
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@m26872 so how do we need to rate the zener? Should the zener be rated so that the fuse will blow before the zener brakes from the current it passes due to an over voltage situation? Or is it OK that the zener brakes to as long as it takes out the fuse first. Then an automatic fuse will no longer work.
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@shabba said:
@mvdarend You discover your issue with the relay?
Sorry, since that post I tried a few small things. But then I got caught up in other projects/work/family
and haven't had time time to look into it further.
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@korttoma Good questions. As always a trade-off of risk, cost, space, taste, etc. They should already be answered in the varistor case though. Personally I think it's overkill with additional overvoltage protection at the low volt secondary side of a good quality PSU and an inexpensive load - fuse, capacitors and regulators should be more than enough. Focus should be the primary side protections.
Edit: Btw. Found some reading. See p.44
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Just a quick post to confirm I got the relays working as well (with Domoticz). I didn't read the schematic at first and just assumed how the mains and relay external wiring should be done. Still no idea about the smoking varistor.
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I thought all my relays were shot as I was not getting continuity on the load pins when I applied 5V. I checked resistance and there is just over 2K when 5V applied and infinite when none. I am going to put back together assuming the 240V A/C will pass through just fine.
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What would cause no power to VCC when connected to mains (even though there is 5V at end of HLK-PM01) - if I bring that 5V with a jumper to VCC it works. Also works fine when connected to the serial port - Bad DC varistor?
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The only thing between the HLK-PM01 and VCC is Fuse2. Check the Schematic. But yes a shorted varistor will in the combination with the fuse bring VCC to 0V. I experienced this also since the 5.5V varistors I bought from the link in the documentation (Ali seller Unionup Electronic Mall) did not work.
Seems like there is quite many of us that are having problems with the 5.5V varistors. I measured a few from my batch and they all show 0.4ohm with a multimeter, should they not have something like infinite resistance unless they get more then the 5.5V? My multimeter gives 0.6V when it measures resistance.
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@korttoma Say what...? You measure .4 ohms on your Varistor? I think you found your problem.
I have only ever used Varistor protection on the primary side, so I've got no experience with low voltage Varistors, but I don't think it should ever read .4.. Should be infinite.
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Hello everyone,
Since we probably wanting this for multiple destinations, what if we used a centralized way at our home powerswitch.
We could stack multiple boards, and just use one arduino nano and one nRF on top of it. We just have to care about link each stack to a different arduino output.
Based in this idea we could create a second pcb for stack mounting, this board will just have the SSR and a deep switch for easy selectable arduino output. To make this ok we should connect each home powerswitch to each stack, another way exist if we use the main supply of the bottom board for all stacks, and place our circuit before our home power switch, but this is not recommendable.
For minimum stack size SSR should be horizontal mounted.
The advantages are obvious, just one arduino and nRF, one ac-dc and regulator for all home switches. Super low volume occupied and no more size constraints inside wall switches.
I don't have time to go forward and design this, so if someone wants it please go for it!!
PS - Since we just use one arduino output per stack, we could avoid deep switch cost and configure by soldering selected track.
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@BSoft I had this idea also and have been working on a pcb for some weeks now.
Its a 5x5 cm PCB you cut in halv so you get a 2 pcs which are 2.5x5cm - and they are stackable (like a shield).
This is how i plan to stack them: (Blue inwall socket behind).
On the bottom you have the high power and HK 240->5v converter.
Then in the middle between the pcbs you have the radio and arduino and on top whatever you wants.
I have made outputs for LCD screen, buttons and/or motion.There are still much work in progress here but so far this is my thoughts... and it fits inside the typical wall hole.
This will not be ready for atleast some week, and the three weeks or so with order/deliver time.I will create my own post to get input on this when im done and If someone else knows and want to improve the design i can send over the files.
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@sundberg84 Nice work with that sandwich!!
Maybe you could move nrf24 to the other board to get away from ac-dc field and obtain better signal exposure.My idea is to move this node to my home powerswitch and control all my home lights, but as size isn't a problem maybe i'll use this:
http://www.dx.com/p/8-channel-5v-solid-state-relay-module-blue-black-green-250v-2a-213880
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@aproxx I'm a complete newbie but am interested in exploring this! Do you have a tutorial on the steps to populate this circuit board? I am comfortable with soldering but new to electronic circuits. Is there a particular order in which components ought to be soldered? Would you recommend breadboarding to begin with? Any sample code that can be used to do a sanity test?
Your guidance is greatly appreciated!
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@aproxx Very nice! Just ordered.... But quite nervous - don't know much about electronic circuits, although I am quite good at following detailed instructions. You wouldn't happen to have a tutorial on how to populate the pcb?
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OK, this may be a really dumb question, but I need to ask, so please pardon my ignorance....
Clearly one main advantage of this is to control traditional light switches programatically and also through the standard light switch. How would I know whether someone flipped the light switch to turn on/off? How does the program "state" keep in sync with the "state" of the physical light switch?
Sorry again about what might be a rather dumb question.
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You could connect the regular switch like a binary button, for example between D3 and Grd. The node could monitor both incoming messages from the controller and the state on D3.
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i hope i can buy this board in the near future
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Hello
I'm putting a home automation system I want to put in the cabinet
electric power supply to power pc wholes my Arduino pro mini cable this method and these can be well card she could withstand power pc. thank you in advance for aid
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@ServiceXp said:
@korttoma Say what...? You measure .4 ohms on your Varistor? I think you found your problem.
I have only ever used Varistor protection on the primary side, so I've got no experience with low voltage Varistors, but I don't think it should ever read .4.. Should be infinite.
I how received a new batch from another seller and these varistors show infinite resistance, unfortunately they are 0603 footprint so they are really tiny.
I bet the other seller (Unionup Electronic Mall) just sent me random crap because all of them show 0 resistance at first and then increase to 0.4 ohms, to bad it is too late to open dispute now. Just stay clear of Unionup Electronic Mall in the future.
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is it the brown or blue varistors that is defective?
Edit: sorry the brown ones are fuses
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@Cliff-Karlsson the 5.5V SMD varistors I recieved from Aliexpress seller "Unionup Electronic Mall" do not work for me. Now running my circuit with out it instead.
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@korttoma Thanks for the heads up on Unionup.
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I don't have any ceramic capacitors. Can I replace them with regualr ones?
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Nevermind the capacitor question I found some ceramic capacitors now. But Is the "BOM" that shows component placement in the beginning of the thread accurate? only the transistor needs to be turned around?
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@bjornhallberg said:
@m26872 You're probably right, I just followed the BOM. I'll see if I
I think the first post should be edited with the right components. In the doc it says
100nF + 100pF Capacitors 0.02 Euro AliExpress Link
but in the post is says:C2 100uF capacitor
I have a couple of 100uF 16v but I guess that wont work, correct?
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Sorry for spamming but regarding fuse 2. Can someone post a link to a fuse that works well. I got alot of those brown PTC fuses but the holes in the PCB are too small. I tried drilling them up but then I got no contact so I had to solder a separate separate wire from 5v to the fuse to get any power to the arduino and the rest of the components.
Or has there been a mistake on my PCB with too small holes for fuse 2?
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@Cliff-Karlsson the holes for Fuse2 are to smal and this has been mentioned a few times before in this thread. I drilled mine out with a 0.8mm drill and could then use the recommended fuse without any extra wires.
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Since the 5.5V varistor is not available from the linked AliExpress shop I wonder whether this varistor would work as well?
https://www.conrad.de/de/smd-varistor-we-vs-82537040-4-v-wuerth-elektronik-we-vs-82537040-1-st-1086820.html
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greeted everyone
look what concerns island link tests on this HLK-PM01
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Power Mains to 5V 0.6A Hi-Link HLK-PM01 UK.html
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A question about the fuses. The BOM in the Word document links to two 230V fuses, the PTC and slow blow fuse. If I read the schematic correctly one fuse is on the AC side and one is on the DC side. How does a 230V fuse help on the DC side where there should not be more than 5Vdc? Or am I missing something? As I'm quite new to this I'm probably not reading the schematic correctly or missing something
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@aproxx said:
For those who wanted to see some pictures of the board:
Small notice: These pictures are of a slightly older design. The newer design has a few minor changes like better component placement and a permanent fuse instead of this resettable fuse. But these pictures should at least give you an idea on how everything looks like, and shows how really small it actually is.
Also, I reinforced the traces of the 230v lines, which I absolutely recommend to do! (Although I do recommend to do it slightly more professional than I did on this prototype :))I really like this design, but it would be even nicer when this fits a ESP8266
Maybe the PCB could be even smaller . And it works together with link text .
So is there maybe one of the PCB designer guys who can build /draw / design this 230v to ESP8266 PCB ?
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WOW, REALLY GREAT JOB!
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Hello everyone,
This is a gr8 project, i am looking forward to make few sensor for my home. As i don't have any experience with electronics and very new to all these terms and components.
I would request anyone of you to, kindly post some pictures of the board with components in place that i can copy and make my boards.
**Specially 3 pin regulator and Capacitors **My first assembled board is not working, it looks like m doing something wrong with either the capacitors or the regulator. I checked my NRF24l01 VCC pin and not getting any voltage at all.
Please help me guys......
Thanks and Regards
Brij
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@Brijesh-Mishra said:
I would request anyone of you to, kindly post some pictures of the board with components in place that i can copy and make my boards.
@the-cosmic-gate has already posted images above.
Perhaps you should post a picture of what you've done?
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Thanks a lot for your response, this is what i have done so far.
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Could I ask to the smart PCB builder's / designers to make the same 230v PCB but not using an Arduino but one of the ESP8266 versions , the the board could be even smaller and easier to fix in the wholes
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@the-cosmic-gate, greetings to you. Kindly let me know, is there any issue with the component placement in the board. Not sure why it's not working :(.
Thanks
Brijesh
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@aproxx Great job. Just started to work with mysensors and I was looking for a power supply alternative to mobile phone chargers. Though one question; the board that you included the relay was really interesting. Why did you not proceed on this? Also, do you sell the PCB's?
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@Brijesh-Mishra said:
@the-cosmic-gate, greetings to you. Kindly let me know, is there any issue with the component placement in the board. Not sure why it's not working :(.
Thanks
Brijesh
There absolutely nothing wrong, but I want to use the ESP8266 to build in instead of the arduino and 2.4 ghz radio (the ESP8266 is an Arduino incl WiFi) so the PCB can be much smaller I think.
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@Brijesh-Mishra , I see two issues with your photos. 1) the 3.3V regulator is on backwards. If you earlier in this thread someone comments that the regulator needs to be put on backward. The white design on the board is not correct. That was also my experience with the boards I built. The flat side of the regulator should face the two cap's. 2) more importantly, it appears that you used a thermal fuse in the spot where fuse #1 goes. Fuse #1 is supposed to be a 300ma slo blow fuse. If that is what you have there no problem, but it looks like the thermal discussed in the thread. This board does not have a place for the thermal fuse. I would consider this a serious safety issue, but I am not an expert. Hope this helps.
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@novicit, Thanks a lot for your help. i will make a new board as per your guidance and share the photos soon.
Regards
Brijesh
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Hello. Here I soldered all works well. Thank you
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Hi,
I now received PCBs from DirtyPCB. I'm searching components (but not from China sellers).
Can I use this varistor on the AC side?: http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mcsr391k10ds/varistor-60j-250vrms/dp/1856880
And on the DC side?: http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/mcvz1206m050agt/varistor-multilayer-4vac-0402/dp/2462756Thanks in advance!
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I can not help.I not particularly versed in radio details
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@aproxx hi wonderful design , i was going to make a similar but i can't find EAGLE part and footprint
for HLK-PM01 ,and actually i don't know how to design the part library .
so please if you can share it i will be thankful
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This post is deleted!
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I really like that this uses the hlk power supply. Any versions of this floating around that instead of a relay do a digital/analog pinout for you to connect sensors to? That would be like a plain vanilla do anything board with safe power
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@punter9 check our hardware site openhardware.io
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thanks! one more question. I am really striking out finding resettable fuses for 120v US application. Anybody conquer this mole hill?
